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14 Apr 2024 13:36:51 EDT (-0400)
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From: Chris R
Subject: Reservations
Date: 8 Mar 2024 08:55:01
Message: <web.65eb1840187c79c144dc80f55cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
the spilled champagne on the table.

This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.

Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.

-- Chris R


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: Reservations
Date: 8 Mar 2024 09:35:01
Message: <65eb2215$1@news.povray.org>
Le 2024-03-08 à 08:53, Chris R a écrit :
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> the spilled champagne on the table.
> 
> This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
> 
> Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
> sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
> is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.
> 
> -- Chris R
Some times, removing most or all of the lights and using radiosity can 
improve the rendering performance. When you have a lot of lights, the 
shadow tests can really bog you down.
Replace the lights with some high emission surfaces for the 
illumination. Bonus : Free soft shadows.
Use the importance mechanism. The light need radiosity{importance 1}
The count can be over 10000.
Then, have
#default{radiosity{importance Desired_Count/High_count}}
Desired_count can be relatively low, like 80 to 120.
Using the two values format for count usually seems to give better 
results. count 14000, 15557
Also use the two values format for nearest_count. This improve the 
performance during the pretrace phase. nearest_count 3, 20
Use a small value for pretrace_end. The default is usually to big. 
pretrace_end 0.0025 or 0.00125
Use a smaller value for low_error_factor. In many cases, the default of 
0.5 is to big.

If some surfaces are causing to much problems, you can use two objects :
The object that we see have no_radiosity.
The fake object have a much simpler geometry and texture. A simple plane 
with a brick pattern with no_image no_reflection no_shadow


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From: 19100
Subject: Re: Reservations
Date: 8 Mar 2024 12:40:00
Message: <web.65eb4d127bcd374e4a2e9aa7edfc8715@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> the spilled champagne on the table.
>
> This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
>
> Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
> sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
> is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.
>
> -- Chris R

Yeah that's really come together, excellent work Chris!


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From: s day
Subject: Re: Reservations
Date: 8 Mar 2024 13:00:00
Message: <web.65eb51897bcd374e875a37746a8f0b95@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> the spilled champagne on the table.
>
> This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
>
> Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
> sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
> is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.
>
> -- Chris R

Just checking that you do know about saving radiosity data with basic textures
(or even basic objects) and no anti-aliasing etc then doing a 2nd pass of the
render where you load the radiosity data/turn on the proper textures etc.

I have in several cases done a radiosity render where I swap out my isosurfaces
for box/sphere etc (where the isosurface is not too deformed from a box. I
imagine this would work OK for your bricks.

On an image note, looks a lot better, all looks in perspective now, I do think
the wall joining the floor would be improved by a skirting board.


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Reservations
Date: 9 Mar 2024 02:22:18
Message: <65ec0e2a$1@news.povray.org>
Op 08/03/2024 om 14:53 schreef Chris R:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> the spilled champagne on the table.
> 
> [snip]
> 
Very good work indeed!

(maybe you could check the width of the chairs? They seem to be a bit 
too wide, but that can also be perspective deformation...)

-- 
Thomas


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From: jr
Subject: Re: Reservations
Date: 9 Mar 2024 05:05:00
Message: <web.65ec33787bcd374ebee99afe6cde94f1@news.povray.org>
hi,

"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  ...
> ... I'm pretty happy over all with the results.

and you ought to be!  one can almost "see" the ghosts of the diners.  :-)

re Thomas + chairs, made me think that thin padding / cushions might be nice to
have.


regards, jr.


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From: Cousin Ricky
Subject: Re: Reservations
Date: 9 Mar 2024 12:50:00
Message: <web.65ec9fdf7bcd374e60e0cc3d949c357d@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> the spilled champagne on the table.

The champagne flutes still look too narrow.  The pictures of champagne flutes
I've seen have a bowl height to diameter ratio of about 2.5.

The chair backs look uncomfortably straight and low.  Leroy has a good chair at
<https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-lrchairs>, though I don't know if it would
fit the atmosphere you're trying to achieve.

The forks and spoon are better, but they still look somewhat awkward.  I think
what would help are variable width along the length of the handle and some
curvature where the handle meets the business end.

The napkins are very much improved!

> This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.

I don't know how you did it, but the image looks perfectly fine without
radiosity.  If you hadn't pointed it out, I would not have known that radiosity
wasn't used.


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From: Paolo Gibellini
Subject: Re: Reservations
Date: 9 Mar 2024 13:28:22
Message: <65ecaa46$1@news.povray.org>
Il 08/03/2024 14:53, Chris R ha scritto:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> the spilled champagne on the table.
> 
> This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
> 
> Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
> sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
> is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.
> 
> -- Chris R

The mood is nice, maybe I would put placemats under the dishes.

Paolo


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: Reservations
Date: 10 Mar 2024 10:11:21
Message: <65edbf89$1@news.povray.org>
Le 2024-03-08 à 12:57, s.day a écrit :
> "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
>> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
>> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
>> the spilled champagne on the table.
>>
>> This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
>> radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
>> dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
>> are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
>> the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
>> I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
>>
>> Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
>> sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
>> is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.
>>
>> -- Chris R
> 
> Just checking that you do know about saving radiosity data with basic textures
> (or even basic objects) and no anti-aliasing etc then doing a 2nd pass of the
> render where you load the radiosity data/turn on the proper textures etc.
> 
> I have in several cases done a radiosity render where I swap out my isosurfaces
> for box/sphere etc (where the isosurface is not too deformed from a box. I
> imagine this would work OK for your bricks.
> 
> On an image note, looks a lot better, all looks in perspective now, I do think
> the wall joining the floor would be improved by a skirting board.
> 

Now, with a combination of the no_radiosity, no_image, no_shadow and 
no_reflection, it can be done in one step.

Make the complex object have the no_radiosity attribute so that the 
radiosity ignore it entirely.
Then, have the simplified object have no_image no_shadow no_reflection 
attributes so that you don't see it directly or in reflection and it 
don't cast any shadow.

Here, placing a plane with a simple brick pattern just on front of the 
brick wall should do the trick.


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From: Chris R
Subject: Re: Reservations
Date: 11 Mar 2024 10:30:00
Message: <web.65ef14787bcd374e24fcb13d5cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

> > This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> > a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> > the spilled champagne on the table.
> >
> > This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> > radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> > dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> > are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> > the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> > I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
> >
> > Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
> > sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
> > is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.
> >
> > -- Chris R
> Some times, removing most or all of the lights and using radiosity can
> improve the rendering performance. When you have a lot of lights, the
> shadow tests can really bog you down.
> Replace the lights with some high emission surfaces for the
> illumination. Bonus : Free soft shadows.
> Use the importance mechanism. The light need radiosity{importance 1}
> The count can be over 10000.
> Then, have
> #default{radiosity{importance Desired_Count/High_count}}
> Desired_count can be relatively low, like 80 to 120.
> Using the two values format for count usually seems to give better
> results. count 14000, 15557
> Also use the two values format for nearest_count. This improve the
> performance during the pretrace phase. nearest_count 3, 20
> Use a small value for pretrace_end. The default is usually to big.
> pretrace_end 0.0025 or 0.00125
> Use a smaller value for low_error_factor. In many cases, the default of
> 0.5 is to big.
>
> If some surfaces are causing to much problems, you can use two objects :
> The object that we see have no_radiosity.
> The fake object have a much simpler geometry and texture. A simple plane
> with a brick pattern with no_image no_reflection no_shadow
These are good suggestions.  I'm going to start doing some experiments replacing
the light sources with radiosity emission, and then playing around with the idea
of simple objects with no_image etc.  That would probably work really well with
the rough brick walls and should be fairly easy to implement.

I'll keep you posted...

-- Chris R


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