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19 Jul 2024 11:20:56 EDT (-0400)
  Cogito Redux (Message 1 to 7 of 7)  
From: Chris R
Subject: Cogito Redux
Date: 5 Dec 2023 08:45:01
Message: <web.656f28a963d4c3ec60052fc65cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
I have gone back to working on poor Cogito in his cell.  In this new version, I
think he has a lot more character due to adding more grime and rust to his body,
and placing the rust in more strategic places.  The dark brown streakiness on
his back and head are from accumulated grime mixed with dripping water from the
ceiling.  I have placed a ring of rust around his eyes and mouth as those would
be places where the metal had been cut and would be more susceptible to rusting.

In general, all of his body has been un-shined.

In addition, I did a fair amount of work on the walls of the cell.  The stones
are now much rougher, and I added grime of many colors in a gradient from the
floor to the ceiling.  There is some reflection as well where the walls are wet.

There are some streams of dripping water from the ceiling as well.

The floor was modified slightly, but I haven't done enough work making it as
dirty as the walls, so that's probably the next task.

This version was done without radiosity and with moderate anti-aliasing.  I
tried rendering with radiosity and a higher degree of anti-aliasing and found
that it took 8 hours to do the first radiosity pass, so I abandoned that.  I
later realized that the two light bulbs in the scene (one in the cell, one
behind the camera) were set up as 3x3 area lights, so the scene had 18+ light
sources.  I put those back to single-lights and the render took about 24 hours,
so I can probably add in radiosity again later.

-- Chris R.
-- Happily rendering since 2014


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: Cogito Redux
Date: 5 Dec 2023 09:17:45
Message: <656f3109$1@news.povray.org>
Le 2023-12-05 à 08:42, Chris R a écrit :
> I have gone back to working on poor Cogito in his cell.  In this new version, I
> think he has a lot more character due to adding more grime and rust to his body,
> and placing the rust in more strategic places.  The dark brown streakiness on
> his back and head are from accumulated grime mixed with dripping water from the
> ceiling.  I have placed a ring of rust around his eyes and mouth as those would
> be places where the metal had been cut and would be more susceptible to rusting.
> 
> In general, all of his body has been un-shined.
> 
> In addition, I did a fair amount of work on the walls of the cell.  The stones
> are now much rougher, and I added grime of many colors in a gradient from the
> floor to the ceiling.  There is some reflection as well where the walls are wet.
> 
> There are some streams of dripping water from the ceiling as well.
> 
> The floor was modified slightly, but I haven't done enough work making it as
> dirty as the walls, so that's probably the next task.
> 
> This version was done without radiosity and with moderate anti-aliasing.  I
> tried rendering with radiosity and a higher degree of anti-aliasing and found
> that it took 8 hours to do the first radiosity pass, so I abandoned that.  I
> later realized that the two light bulbs in the scene (one in the cell, one
> behind the camera) were set up as 3x3 area lights, so the scene had 18+ light
> sources.  I put those back to single-lights and the render took about 24 hours,
> so I can probably add in radiosity again later.
> 
> -- Chris R.
> -- Happily rendering since 2014

3x3 area_light is small. Do you use adaptive ?

Use the same lights, increase the area_light to something like 17x17, 
and use adaptive 0.

Thar way, only 4 samples per light will be used for much of the scene. 
Given the composition, the risk of having artifacts is pretty low.


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From: Chris R
Subject: Re: Cogito Redux
Date: 5 Dec 2023 13:30:00
Message: <web.656f6b4b658d6360052fc65cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

> > I have gone back to working on poor Cogito in his cell.  In this new version, I
> > think he has a lot more character due to adding more grime and rust to his body,
> > and placing the rust in more strategic places.  The dark brown streakiness on
> > his back and head are from accumulated grime mixed with dripping water from the
> > ceiling.  I have placed a ring of rust around his eyes and mouth as those would
> > be places where the metal had been cut and would be more susceptible to rusting.
> >
> > In general, all of his body has been un-shined.
> >
> > In addition, I did a fair amount of work on the walls of the cell.  The stones
> > are now much rougher, and I added grime of many colors in a gradient from the
> > floor to the ceiling.  There is some reflection as well where the walls are wet.
> >
> > There are some streams of dripping water from the ceiling as well.
> >
> > The floor was modified slightly, but I haven't done enough work making it as
> > dirty as the walls, so that's probably the next task.
> >
> > This version was done without radiosity and with moderate anti-aliasing.  I
> > tried rendering with radiosity and a higher degree of anti-aliasing and found
> > that it took 8 hours to do the first radiosity pass, so I abandoned that.  I
> > later realized that the two light bulbs in the scene (one in the cell, one
> > behind the camera) were set up as 3x3 area lights, so the scene had 18+ light
> > sources.  I put those back to single-lights and the render took about 24 hours,
> > so I can probably add in radiosity again later.
> >
> > -- Chris R.
> > -- Happily rendering since 2014
>
> 3x3 area_light is small. Do you use adaptive ?
>
> Use the same lights, increase the area_light to something like 17x17,
> and use adaptive 0.
>
> Thar way, only 4 samples per light will be used for much of the scene.
> Given the composition, the risk of having artifacts is pretty low.

Ah, thanks.  I had pulled the light source for the bulbs from the LightSys code
which uses adaptive 1.  Using adaptive 0 it does seem to be rendering more
quickly.  I took your suggestion of using 17x17, made it circular and used
orient as well.

-- Chris R.
-- Happily rendering since 2014


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: Cogito Redux
Date: 5 Dec 2023 15:55:01
Message: <656f8e25@news.povray.org>
Le 2023-12-05 à 13:26, Chris R a écrit :
> Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
>> Le 2023-12-05 à 08:42, Chris R a écrit :
>>> I have gone back to working on poor Cogito in his cell.  In this new version, I
>>> think he has a lot more character due to adding more grime and rust to his body,
>>> and placing the rust in more strategic places.  The dark brown streakiness on
>>> his back and head are from accumulated grime mixed with dripping water from the
>>> ceiling.  I have placed a ring of rust around his eyes and mouth as those would
>>> be places where the metal had been cut and would be more susceptible to rusting.
>>>
>>> In general, all of his body has been un-shined.
>>>
>>> In addition, I did a fair amount of work on the walls of the cell.  The stones
>>> are now much rougher, and I added grime of many colors in a gradient from the
>>> floor to the ceiling.  There is some reflection as well where the walls are wet.
>>>
>>> There are some streams of dripping water from the ceiling as well.
>>>
>>> The floor was modified slightly, but I haven't done enough work making it as
>>> dirty as the walls, so that's probably the next task.
>>>
>>> This version was done without radiosity and with moderate anti-aliasing.  I
>>> tried rendering with radiosity and a higher degree of anti-aliasing and found
>>> that it took 8 hours to do the first radiosity pass, so I abandoned that.  I
>>> later realized that the two light bulbs in the scene (one in the cell, one
>>> behind the camera) were set up as 3x3 area lights, so the scene had 18+ light
>>> sources.  I put those back to single-lights and the render took about 24 hours,
>>> so I can probably add in radiosity again later.
>>>
>>> -- Chris R.
>>> -- Happily rendering since 2014
>>
>> 3x3 area_light is small. Do you use adaptive ?
>>
>> Use the same lights, increase the area_light to something like 17x17,
>> and use adaptive 0.
>>
>> Thar way, only 4 samples per light will be used for much of the scene.
>> Given the composition, the risk of having artifacts is pretty low.
> 
> Ah, thanks.  I had pulled the light source for the bulbs from the LightSys code
> which uses adaptive 1.  Using adaptive 0 it does seem to be rendering more
> quickly.  I took your suggestion of using 17x17, made it circular and used
> orient as well.
> 
> -- Chris R.
> -- Happily rendering since 2014
> 
> 
Here are the starting arrays for various adaptive values :
0	2x2	2^0+1
1	3x3	2^1+1
2	5x5	2^2+1
3	9x9	3^2+1
4	17x17	4^2+1

Or, 2^(adaptive value) +1

To get the benefit of the adaptive feature, you should have an array 
density at least two higher than the starting size of the adaptive value.
A 10x10 array will silently get bumped up to 17x17.

In my experience, an area_light 257x257, 513x513 or even 1025x1025 with 
adaptive 0, 1 or 2 is barely slower than a 9x9 one with the same 
adaptive values. And, those don't need any jitter to give very smooth 
results.


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: Cogito Redux
Date: 5 Dec 2023 16:03:52
Message: <656f9038$1@news.povray.org>
Le 2023-12-05 à 15:54, Alain Martel a écrit :
> 3    9x9    3^2+1
> 4    17x17    4^2+1

My mistake here.
Should be :
3	3x3	2^3+1
4	17x17	2^4+1

Also, just discovered that Thunderbird automatically change the ^ to the 
exponential version.
3^ 2+1 → 3^2+1


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From: Chris R
Subject: Re: Cogito Redux
Date: 12 Dec 2023 09:15:01
Message: <web.65786ad4658d6377c596b55cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
>
> >
> > 3x3 area_light is small. Do you use adaptive ?
> >
> > Use the same lights, increase the area_light to something like 17x17,
> > and use adaptive 0.
> >
> > Thar way, only 4 samples per light will be used for much of the scene.
> > Given the composition, the risk of having artifacts is pretty low.
>
> Ah, thanks.  I had pulled the light source for the bulbs from the LightSys code
> which uses adaptive 1.  Using adaptive 0 it does seem to be rendering more
> quickly.  I took your suggestion of using 17x17, made it circular and used
> orient as well.
>
> -- Chris R.
> -- Happily rendering since 2014
I fixed the area lights for the bare lightbulbs and I think the lighting is much
better now.  I also added more dirt and grime to the floor so it matches the
walls better.

There is still no radiosity.  The scene as it is took 3 days, 8 hours to
complete.  I had tried starting the render with some very rudimentary radiosity
settings, (the standard #2 from raddef.inc) and after 8 hours it was still
working on the second radiosity pass, so I gave up.  I think radiosity really
only helps the floor, and might just undo the darkening I gave it.

Cogito will keep thinking and I'll get back to him at another time.  I'm off on
a rabbit hole to clean up all of my code for creating brick walls so I can share
it here.


-- Chris R.
-- Happily rendering since 2014


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Attachments:
Download 'scene-v1.2-hd-mq-2023-12-12.png' (4089 KB)

Preview of image 'scene-v1.2-hd-mq-2023-12-12.png'
scene-v1.2-hd-mq-2023-12-12.png


 

From: Paolo Gibellini
Subject: Re: Cogito Redux
Date: 16 Dec 2023 09:28:41
Message: <657db419$1@news.povray.org>
Il 12/12/2023 15:14, Chris R wrote:
> I fixed the area lights for the bare lightbulbs and I think the lighting is much
> better now.  I also added more dirt and grime to the floor so it matches the
> walls better.
> 
> There is still no radiosity.  The scene as it is took 3 days, 8 hours to
> complete.  I had tried starting the render with some very rudimentary radiosity
> settings, (the standard #2 from raddef.inc) and after 8 hours it was still
> working on the second radiosity pass, so I gave up.  I think radiosity really
> only helps the floor, and might just undo the darkening I gave it.
> 
> Cogito will keep thinking and I'll get back to him at another time.  I'm off on
> a rabbit hole to clean up all of my code for creating brick walls so I can share
> it here.
> 
> 
> -- Chris R.
> -- Happily rendering since 2014

Both the images are beautiful, and the poor Cogito is very patient.

Paolo


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