POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.binaries.images : New WIP Server Time
26 Sep 2022 02:32:30 EDT (-0400)
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From: Chris R
Subject: Re: New WIP
Date: 18 Jun 2022 07:55:00
Message: <web.62adbc63ba1cac86b0d648f25cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 18/06/2022 om 04:47 schreef Chris R:
> > "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> >> I went back and did some more work generalizing the code I use to create brick
> >> walls, and some new code I wrote to create concrete sidewalks.  The new code
> >> includes the ability to create American and English spanning layouts for bricks,
> >> but still uses isosurfaces with brick pigment functions.
> >>
> >> The tufts of grass are generated using parts of the makegrass.inc macros from
> >> Gilles Tran.
> >>
>
> Good work, especially for the bricks. Something I like less are
> fractures through the concrete. Those need to be "smoother" in their
> "irregularity" if you understand what I mean. :-)
>
> --
> Thomas
Thanks.  The early versions of the fractures were too smooth, and I probably
went a bit overboard.  I'll play with dialing it back.


-- Chris R.


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From: Mr
Subject: Re: New WIP
Date: 20 Jun 2022 06:55:00
Message: <web.62b0514fba1cac8616086ed06830a892@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > I went back and did some more work generalizing the code I use to create brick
> > walls, and some new code I wrote to create concrete sidewalks.  The new code
> > includes the ability to create American and English spanning layouts for bricks,
> > but still uses isosurfaces with brick pigment functions.
> >
> > The tufts of grass are generated using parts of the makegrass.inc macros from
> > Gilles Tran.
> >
> >
> > -- Chris R.
> This time with the image!
>
>
> -- Chris R.

The floor looks great !  I think the light is too desaturated,
omnidirectional/ambient. Having a sun-like spot/direct light lower at the
horizon and grazing more from the side would reveal more of the specularity of
bricks and concrete (which should be quite low intensity less than 0.2 but high
roughness /size and diffuse multiplier should also be lower to let it reveal).
For realism possibly with a slightly warmer temperature than the sky sphere
lightbouncing through radiosity if you like that mood?


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From: Chris R
Subject: Re: New WIP
Date: 25 Jun 2022 23:45:00
Message: <web.62b7d62dba1cac864ebf5035cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > I went back and did some more work generalizing the code I use to create brick
> > walls, and some new code I wrote to create concrete sidewalks.  The new code
> > includes the ability to create American and English spanning layouts for bricks,
> > but still uses isosurfaces with brick pigment functions.
> >
> > The tufts of grass are generated using parts of the makegrass.inc macros from
> > Gilles Tran.
> >
> >
> > -- Chris R.
> This time with the image!
>
>
> -- Chris R.

I made some updates after resolving some issues noted in the "transparent box"
thread.  I have another version where I tried to show tendrils of steam rising
from the sidewalk, the way a wet sidewalk would look in the heat of the day, but
they looked more like streaks of rain, which didn't match the fact that the sun
was out in the rest of the image, so I took them out.  I left some media fog
right on the sidewalk, though.



-- Chris R.


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: New WIP
Date: 26 Jun 2022 02:15:30
Message: <62b7f982$1@news.povray.org>
Op 26/06/2022 om 05:44 schreef Chris R:
> I made some updates after resolving some issues noted in the "transparent box"
> thread.  I have another version where I tried to show tendrils of steam rising
> from the sidewalk, the way a wet sidewalk would look in the heat of the day, but
> they looked more like streaks of rain, which didn't match the fact that the sun
> was out in the rest of the image, so I took them out.  I left some media fog
> right on the sidewalk, though.
> 

I like it. Starting to look like my unkempt garden. ;-)


-- 
Thomas


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From: Mr
Subject: Re: New WIP
Date: 27 Jun 2022 07:20:00
Message: <web.62b99192ba1cac8616086ed06830a892@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > > I went back and did some more work generalizing the code I use to create brick
> > > walls, and some new code I wrote to create concrete sidewalks.  The new code
> > > includes the ability to create American and English spanning layouts for bricks,
> > > but still uses isosurfaces with brick pigment functions.
> > >
> > > The tufts of grass are generated using parts of the makegrass.inc macros from
> > > Gilles Tran.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- Chris R.
> > This time with the image!
> >
> >
> > -- Chris R.
>
> I made some updates after resolving some issues noted in the "transparent box"
> thread.  I have another version where I tried to show tendrils of steam rising
> from the sidewalk, the way a wet sidewalk would look in the heat of the day, but
> they looked more like streaks of rain, which didn't match the fact that the sun
> was out in the rest of the image, so I took them out.  I left some media fog
> right on the sidewalk, though.
>
>
>
> -- Chris R.

This media fog effect is really interesting ! And the flower in the middle
really takes on some awesome dramatic composition through its lighting.
(there's still an issue with lack of perceptible finish for the red bricks. and
it's the only issue now. I believe it would help a lot since they take up so
much space in the image)


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From: Chris R
Subject: Re: New WIP
Date: 27 Jun 2022 09:55:00
Message: <web.62b9b5a0ba1cac864ebf5035cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > > "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > > > I went back and did some more work generalizing the code I use to create brick
> > > > walls, and some new code I wrote to create concrete sidewalks.  The new code
> > > > includes the ability to create American and English spanning layouts for
bricks,
> > > > but still uses isosurfaces with brick pigment functions.
> > > >
> > > > The tufts of grass are generated using parts of the makegrass.inc macros from
> > > > Gilles Tran.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- Chris R.
> > > This time with the image!
> > >
> > >
> > > -- Chris R.
> >
> > I made some updates after resolving some issues noted in the "transparent box"
> > thread.  I have another version where I tried to show tendrils of steam rising
> > from the sidewalk, the way a wet sidewalk would look in the heat of the day, but
> > they looked more like streaks of rain, which didn't match the fact that the sun
> > was out in the rest of the image, so I took them out.  I left some media fog
> > right on the sidewalk, though.
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Chris R.
>
> This media fog effect is really interesting ! And the flower in the middle
> really takes on some awesome dramatic composition through its lighting.
> (there's still an issue with lack of perceptible finish for the red bricks. and
> it's the only issue now. I believe it would help a lot since they take up so
> much space in the image)

Thanks!  The sun in this scene was positioned to cause the triangular highlight
on the limestone block and light the downspout.  I placed the flower to face the
sun as well.  However, that essentially puts the sun just behind the wall, so
the face doesn't get lit by it except by ambient light.

If I could think of a logical reason for there to be another light source that
would show off the bricks, I'd add it in.  I suppose I could try changing the
time of day a little bit to get the sun just in front of the wall, and hope I
don't lose the interesting highlight on the block.

-- Chris R.


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From: Bald Eagle
Subject: Re: New WIP
Date: 27 Jun 2022 19:45:00
Message: <web.62ba4060ba1cac861f9dae3025979125@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:

> If I could think of a logical reason for there to be another light source that
> would show off the bricks, I'd add it in.

Reflection off another wall.   Like a white concrete wall.
Or a white gravel or sand area of ground.

Just add it in..   ;)


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: New WIP
Date: 28 Jun 2022 02:06:38
Message: <62ba9a6e$1@news.povray.org>
Op 27/06/2022 om 15:50 schreef Chris R:
> "Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
>> This media fog effect is really interesting ! And the flower in the middle
>> really takes on some awesome dramatic composition through its lighting.
>> (there's still an issue with lack of perceptible finish for the red bricks. and
>> it's the only issue now. I believe it would help a lot since they take up so
>> much space in the image)
> 
> Thanks!  The sun in this scene was positioned to cause the triangular highlight
> on the limestone block and light the downspout.  I placed the flower to face the
> sun as well.  However, that essentially puts the sun just behind the wall, so
> the face doesn't get lit by it except by ambient light.
> 
> If I could think of a logical reason for there to be another light source that
> would show off the bricks, I'd add it in.  I suppose I could try changing the
> time of day a little bit to get the sun just in front of the wall, and hope I
> don't lose the interesting highlight on the block.
> 

You probably did already, but turning normal to 'on' in the radiosity 
block could improve this.

-- 
Thomas


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From: Mr
Subject: Re: New WIP
Date: 28 Jun 2022 04:25:00
Message: <web.62baba94ba1cac8616086ed06830a892@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> "Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> > "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > > "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > > > "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > > > > I went back and did some more work generalizing the code I use to create
brick
> > > > > walls, and some new code I wrote to create concrete sidewalks.  The new code
> > > > > includes the ability to create American and English spanning layouts for
bricks,
> > > > > but still uses isosurfaces with brick pigment functions.
> > > > >
> > > > > The tufts of grass are generated using parts of the makegrass.inc macros
from
> > > > > Gilles Tran.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Chris R.
> > > > This time with the image!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- Chris R.
> > >
> > > I made some updates after resolving some issues noted in the "transparent box"
> > > thread.  I have another version where I tried to show tendrils of steam rising
> > > from the sidewalk, the way a wet sidewalk would look in the heat of the day, but
> > > they looked more like streaks of rain, which didn't match the fact that the sun
> > > was out in the rest of the image, so I took them out.  I left some media fog
> > > right on the sidewalk, though.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- Chris R.
> >
> > This media fog effect is really interesting ! And the flower in the middle
> > really takes on some awesome dramatic composition through its lighting.
> > (there's still an issue with lack of perceptible finish for the red bricks. and
> > it's the only issue now. I believe it would help a lot since they take up so
> > much space in the image)
>
> Thanks!  The sun in this scene was positioned to cause the triangular highlight
> on the limestone block and light the downspout.  I placed the flower to face the
> sun as well.  However, that essentially puts the sun just behind the wall, so
> the face doesn't get lit by it except by ambient light.
>
> If I could think of a logical reason for there to be another light source that
> would show off the bricks, I'd add it in.  I suppose I could try changing the
> time of day a little bit to get the sun just in front of the wall, and hope I
> don't lose the interesting highlight on the block.
>
> -- Chris R.

I expected that was the reason. very reasonable and indeed not braking the
quality of light on the main subject is hard, but would become easier with a
third lighting (sky being one with radiosity and your current sun the second). I
think Bald Eagle's suggestion can be a good possibility, there might even be
some glass windows (/ shop's display?) on that wall or cars from the street
reflecting hotter points ? In any case, if the most tolerable variation to you
(whichever you end up chosing) appears to not be enough to bring some realism to
that texture, maybe the texture is the culprit? even if itsn't I think the
finish could still be worked upon to maximize it : e.g. by having some sand
grain sized freckles acting more in normal than pigment,

injecting something like normal {wrinkles 0.75 scale 0.1} inside what you
currently have

Using rather phong (below 0.25) than specular, and diffuse with albedo keyword
such as:

diffuse albedo 0.65

....and lowering the brilliance parameter a little below 1.0 to really simulate
an Oren nayar shader of maximal sigma and roughness material as such minerals
should be. (also check that this finish ambient value is left to zero)


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From: Chris R
Subject: Re: New WIP
Date: 29 Jun 2022 16:00:00
Message: <web.62bcae85ba1cac86833fbc6f5cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > "Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> > > "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > > > "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > > > > "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > > > > > I went back and did some more work generalizing the code I use to create
brick
> > > > > > walls, and some new code I wrote to create concrete sidewalks.  The new
code
> > > > > > includes the ability to create American and English spanning layouts for
bricks,
> > > > > > but still uses isosurfaces with brick pigment functions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The tufts of grass are generated using parts of the makegrass.inc macros
from
> > > > > > Gilles Tran.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- Chris R.
> > > > > This time with the image!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Chris R.
> > > >
> > > > I made some updates after resolving some issues noted in the "transparent box"
> > > > thread.  I have another version where I tried to show tendrils of steam rising
> > > > from the sidewalk, the way a wet sidewalk would look in the heat of the day,
but
> > > > they looked more like streaks of rain, which didn't match the fact that the
sun
> > > > was out in the rest of the image, so I took them out.  I left some media fog
> > > > right on the sidewalk, though.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- Chris R.
> > >
> > > This media fog effect is really interesting ! And the flower in the middle
> > > really takes on some awesome dramatic composition through its lighting.
> > > (there's still an issue with lack of perceptible finish for the red bricks. and
> > > it's the only issue now. I believe it would help a lot since they take up so
> > > much space in the image)
> >
> > Thanks!  The sun in this scene was positioned to cause the triangular highlight
> > on the limestone block and light the downspout.  I placed the flower to face the
> > sun as well.  However, that essentially puts the sun just behind the wall, so
> > the face doesn't get lit by it except by ambient light.
> >
> > If I could think of a logical reason for there to be another light source that
> > would show off the bricks, I'd add it in.  I suppose I could try changing the
> > time of day a little bit to get the sun just in front of the wall, and hope I
> > don't lose the interesting highlight on the block.
> >
> > -- Chris R.
>
> I expected that was the reason. very reasonable and indeed not braking the
> quality of light on the main subject is hard, but would become easier with a
> third lighting (sky being one with radiosity and your current sun the second). I
> think Bald Eagle's suggestion can be a good possibility, there might even be
> some glass windows (/ shop's display?) on that wall or cars from the street
> reflecting hotter points ? In any case, if the most tolerable variation to you
> (whichever you end up chosing) appears to not be enough to bring some realism to
> that texture, maybe the texture is the culprit? even if itsn't I think the
> finish could still be worked upon to maximize it : e.g. by having some sand
> grain sized freckles acting more in normal than pigment,
>
> injecting something like normal {wrinkles 0.75 scale 0.1} inside what you
> currently have
>
> Using rather phong (below 0.25) than specular, and diffuse with albedo keyword
> such as:
>
> diffuse albedo 0.65
>
> ....and lowering the brilliance parameter a little below 1.0 to really simulate
> an Oren nayar shader of maximal sigma and roughness material as such minerals
> should be. (also check that this finish ambient value is left to zero)

Thanks for the suggestions; I'll play around with some of them when I get back
to this scene.  (I am off in another direction at the moment.)

I did try advancing the time of day by an hour.  It changes the scene, some in
good ways, some in bad, but still wasn't enough to really light the bricks up.
I'll look at the brick finish elements again, and also check my radiosity
settings when I get back to it.

-- Chris R.


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