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23 Jun 2024 14:51:00 EDT (-0400)
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From: RATH, CHRISTOPHER A
Subject: Re: Floating - WIP
Date: 16 Apr 2024 09:40:00
Message: <661e7fb0$1@news.povray.org>
On 4/15/2024 10:51 PM, William F Pokorny wrote:
> On 4/15/24 15:31, RATH, CHRISTOPHER A wrote:
>> However, when I used a value < 1, I was running into the floating 
>> point range problem that was giving very weird results.
> 
> Moving to a smaller isosurface accuracy setting(a) might well help too, 
> if you've not already tried it.
> 
> Bill P.
> 
> (a) - As a rough rule, accuracy values of 1e-5 / 1e=6 are about the best 
> we can actually achieve with isosurfaces.
> 
I'm actually using 1e-7, which seems to make a difference from 1e-6. 
I'm not getting any artifacts at 1e-7, but there are a few on the front 
of bubbles at 1e-6.

-- 
-- Chris R


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From: RATH, CHRISTOPHER A
Subject: Re: Floating - WIP
Date: 16 Apr 2024 09:45:29
Message: <661e80f9$1@news.povray.org>
On 4/16/2024 6:33 AM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> "RATH, CHRISTOPHER A" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> 
>> I'm playing with the fountain crack and the balloon texture now and will
>> post an update later.
> 
> This is looking great - I think what you need for the balloon is
> transparency/filter, double_illumination, and SSLT.
> 
> How did you make that cracked brick?   It looks awesome!
> 
> 
> 
I'm playing with a bunch of suggestions for the balloon.  Currently the 
texture is:

     #local _p1  = pigment { color rgbf <0.6, 0.6, 0.005, 0.7> }
     #local _p2  = pigment { color rgbf <0.6, 0.6, 0.005, 0.6> }

         material {
             texture {
                 pigment {
                     bozo
                     pigment_map {
                         [0.0 _p1]
                         [0.5 _p1]
                         [0.8 _p2]
                         [1.0 _p2]
                     }
                     warp { turbulence 0.9 }
                     scale 2
                 }
                 //normal { bumps 0.01 scale 0.01 }
                 finish {
                     fresnel 0.4
                     specular albedo 1.0
                     roughness 0.005
                     diffuse albedo 1.0
                     reflection { 0.4 }
                 }
             }
             interior { ior 1.5 }
         }

I'm working out how to get a more realistic reflection and will look at 
the suggestions provided here.  I haven't tried rendering this with 
radiosity yet.
-- 
-- Chris R


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From: RATH, CHRISTOPHER A
Subject: Re: Floating - WIP
Date: 16 Apr 2024 09:48:04
Message: <661e8194$1@news.povray.org>
On 4/16/2024 6:33 AM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> "RATH, CHRISTOPHER A" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> 
>> I'm playing with the fountain crack and the balloon texture now and will
>> post an update later.
> 
> This is looking great - I think what you need for the balloon is
> transparency/filter, double_illumination, and SSLT.
> 
> How did you make that cracked brick?   It looks awesome!
> 
> 
> 

As for the brick, (which is changing slightly in the updated version), I 
do almost everything with isosurfaces.  The bricks are just slices of a 
cylindrical tube, and I subtract out a pigment function based on the 
marble pattern.  In the first version, each block had its own random 
cracked marble pattern applied to it.  In the new one, there is a global 
crack pattern that gets applied to the foundation and each block so 
there is consistency with the way the fountain is cracking.

-- 
-- Chris R


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From: RATH, CHRISTOPHER A
Subject: Re: Floating - WIP
Date: 17 Apr 2024 08:29:19
Message: <661fc09f@news.povray.org>
On 4/16/2024 9:35 AM, RATH, CHRISTOPHER A wrote:
> On 4/15/2024 1:03 PM, Leroy wrote:
>> "RATH, CHRISTOPHER A" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
>>> This is a work-in-progress inspired by a photo I took of my grandson
>>> chasing soap bubbles in his yard.  As usual, it was supposed to be a
>>> brief doodle, but has morphed beyond that.  I have started adding other
>>> things that "float" in various ways to model in the scene as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> -- Chris R
>>
>> I like the way you play. Why not use Iridescence on the soap bubbles?
>> That is what it was made for.
>> Have Fun!
>>
> The bubbles do have iridescence; the bug in the shape is probably making 
> it too hard to see.  I will probably put a few bubbles closer to the 
> camera so you can see it better in the final image.
> 
This is a ways from being done, but I wanted to share the updated image 
with the bubbles fixed.  The balloon texture is still not quite right, 
even when I render with radiosity (which this version does not).

-- 
-- Chris R


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Attachments:
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Preview of image 'scene.png'
scene.png


 

From: Cousin Ricky
Subject: Re: Floating - WIP
Date: 17 Apr 2024 12:17:47
Message: <661ff62b$1@news.povray.org>
On 2024-04-17 08:28 (-4), RATH, CHRISTOPHER A wrote:
>>
> This is a ways from being done, but I wanted to share the updated image
> with the bubbles fixed.  The balloon texture is still not quite right,
> even when I render with radiosity (which this version does not).

I doubt radiosity makes any difference here.  I would give Alain's
suggestion of blurred reflection a try.  If you haven't seen it yet, the
technique is at:

https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13

To avoid having this technique stall and take forever, use Alain's
modification:

https://news.povray.org/49b9809b%241%40news.povray.org

And I would cut the reflection in half or even lower; and if you're
using finish-level Fresnel, remember to use the reduced reflection as
its argument:

finish
{ fresnel 0.5
  reflection { 0.5 fresnel }
  conserve_energy
  ...
}

The reflection of the water highlights on the right edge of the balloon
looks suspiciously metallic.  Is this not a rubber balloon?


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: Floating - WIP
Date: 17 Apr 2024 12:43:27
Message: <661ffc2f$1@news.povray.org>
Le 2024-04-17 à 12:17, Cousin Ricky a écrit :
> On 2024-04-17 08:28 (-4), RATH, CHRISTOPHER A wrote:
>>>
>> This is a ways from being done, but I wanted to share the updated image
>> with the bubbles fixed.  The balloon texture is still not quite right,
>> even when I render with radiosity (which this version does not).
> 
> I doubt radiosity makes any difference here.  I would give Alain's
> suggestion of blurred reflection a try.  If you haven't seen it yet, the
> technique is at:
> 
> https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13
> 
> To avoid having this technique stall and take forever, use Alain's
> modification:
> 
> https://news.povray.org/49b9809b%241%40news.povray.org
> 
> And I would cut the reflection in half or even lower; and if you're
> using finish-level Fresnel, remember to use the reduced reflection as
> its argument:
> 
> finish
> { fresnel 0.5
>    reflection { 0.5 fresnel }
>    conserve_energy
>    ...
> }
> 
> The reflection of the water highlights on the right edge of the balloon
> looks suspiciously metallic.  Is this not a rubber balloon?
> 
I agree about toning the transparency down. I'd go as far as dividing it 
by 3 to 4.


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From: Bald Eagle
Subject: Re: Floating - WIP
Date: 17 Apr 2024 17:35:00
Message: <web.66203ff3239499c91f9dae3025979125@news.povray.org>
I really like the trees.
Wondering if you can divvy them up by progressively subtracting inverted cones
from them and recombining the sections with some randomness to make them a
little less perfectly conical.

The planks on the bench need to be far thicker.

I have no doubt that you can figure out what to do with the granite blocks.

I'd experiment with jiggling and bending the water spouts, and adding in a
verdigris patina to the texture.

The grass and paths are looking good.
For the paths, consider that grass usually grows inward from the edges, you may
have rogue tufts in the middle of the path, and perhaps ruts with water /
different texture or color - maybe cracked mud.
Wildflowers, dandelions, bees, butterflies...

Would be great if you could throw a few birds into the scene.
Maybe a squirrel.

The field looks rather - empty.  Not saying dump some trash onto it, but maybe a
bike, a sunbathing towel, ... just some more indicators that it's been recently
visited and used.  A trash can and or a drinking fountain would be cool too.

- BE


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From: RATH, CHRISTOPHER A
Subject: Re: Floating - WIP
Date: 18 Apr 2024 08:52:05
Message: <66211775$1@news.povray.org>
On 4/17/2024 5:32 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> I really like the trees.
> Wondering if you can divvy them up by progressively subtracting inverted cones
> from them and recombining the sections with some randomness to make them a
> little less perfectly conical.
> 
> The planks on the bench need to be far thicker.
> 
> I have no doubt that you can figure out what to do with the granite blocks.
> 
> I'd experiment with jiggling and bending the water spouts, and adding in a
> verdigris patina to the texture.
> 
> The grass and paths are looking good.
> For the paths, consider that grass usually grows inward from the edges, you may
> have rogue tufts in the middle of the path, and perhaps ruts with water /
> different texture or color - maybe cracked mud.
> Wildflowers, dandelions, bees, butterflies...
> 
> Would be great if you could throw a few birds into the scene.
> Maybe a squirrel.
> 
> The field looks rather - empty.  Not saying dump some trash onto it, but maybe a
> bike, a sunbathing towel, ... just some more indicators that it's been recently
> visited and used.  A trash can and or a drinking fountain would be cool too.
> 
> - BE
> 
> 
The trees are isosurfaces using a cone function with noise added in to 
get the layers of branches.  I can add some noise to the slope function 
that drives the main shape and perturb the central access as well.  I 
was surprised, though, by how nice they look with so little effort.

The spouts actually shoot bubbles, but you are right, the texture is 
just a pure RC3Metal.  They need a little texture as well as some 
corrosion, and the directions they are pointing don't have any noise in 
them either.

I started working on better grass for the foreground, but then got 
distracted by the balloon.  I'll have to work out some ways to get the 
grass to grow more realistically into the sides of the path.  I'll 
probably use whatever near-view grass shapes to create tufts in the path 
as well.

The current working version has a cluster of balloons floating over the 
field.  I'll be adding more elements as I get the existing ones cleaned up.

-- Chris R
-- 
-- Chris R


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From: RATH, CHRISTOPHER A
Subject: Re: Floating - WIP
Date: 18 Apr 2024 08:56:58
Message: <6621189a$1@news.povray.org>
On 4/17/2024 12:17 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2024-04-17 08:28 (-4), RATH, CHRISTOPHER A wrote:
>>>
>> This is a ways from being done, but I wanted to share the updated image
>> with the bubbles fixed.  The balloon texture is still not quite right,
>> even when I render with radiosity (which this version does not).
> 
> I doubt radiosity makes any difference here.  I would give Alain's
> suggestion of blurred reflection a try.  If you haven't seen it yet, the
> technique is at:
> 
> https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13
> 
> To avoid having this technique stall and take forever, use Alain's
> modification:
> 
> https://news.povray.org/49b9809b%241%40news.povray.org
> 
> And I would cut the reflection in half or even lower; and if you're
> using finish-level Fresnel, remember to use the reduced reflection as
> its argument:
> 
> finish
> { fresnel 0.5
>    reflection { 0.5 fresnel }
>    conserve_energy
>    ...
> }
> 
> The reflection of the water highlights on the right edge of the balloon
> looks suspiciously metallic.  Is this not a rubber balloon?
> 
I looked at the code for doing the blurred reflections and started 
experimenting with it.  I was able to get a nice blurring mirror using 
CSG objects and this technique where I can play with the variables.

However, the balloon is an isosurface with a pretty small accuracy value 
to remove artifacts, so hitting it with 40X more rays drops the 
rendering to a halt.  I can get it to go with a small blur count, but I 
don't think that will give me the blur effect.

I'm still playing with it.  If I can find a good way to create the 
balloon using CSG instead of isosurfaces that may be the better 
solution, since I don't need a bumpy surface.

-- Chris R
-- 
-- Chris R


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: Floating - WIP
Date: 18 Apr 2024 13:35:50
Message: <662159f6$1@news.povray.org>
Le 2024-04-18 à 08:56, RATH, CHRISTOPHER A a écrit :
> On 4/17/2024 12:17 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> On 2024-04-17 08:28 (-4), RATH, CHRISTOPHER A wrote:
>>>>
>>> This is a ways from being done, but I wanted to share the updated image
>>> with the bubbles fixed.  The balloon texture is still not quite right,
>>> even when I render with radiosity (which this version does not).
>>
>> I doubt radiosity makes any difference here.  I would give Alain's
>> suggestion of blurred reflection a try.  If you haven't seen it yet, the
>> technique is at:
>>
>> https://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13
>>
>> To avoid having this technique stall and take forever, use Alain's
>> modification:
>>
>> https://news.povray.org/49b9809b%241%40news.povray.org
>>
>> And I would cut the reflection in half or even lower; and if you're
>> using finish-level Fresnel, remember to use the reduced reflection as
>> its argument:
>>
>> finish
>> { fresnel 0.5
>>    reflection { 0.5 fresnel }
>>    conserve_energy
>>    ...
>> }
>>
>> The reflection of the water highlights on the right edge of the balloon
>> looks suspiciously metallic.  Is this not a rubber balloon?
>>
> I looked at the code for doing the blurred reflections and started 
> experimenting with it.  I was able to get a nice blurring mirror using 
> CSG objects and this technique where I can play with the variables.
> 
> However, the balloon is an isosurface with a pretty small accuracy value 
> to remove artifacts, so hitting it with 40X more rays drops the 
> rendering to a halt.  I can get it to go with a small blur count, but I 
> don't think that will give me the blur effect.
> 
> I'm still playing with it.  If I can find a good way to create the 
> balloon using CSG instead of isosurfaces that may be the better 
> solution, since I don't need a bumpy surface.
> 
> -- Chris R
Then, you need to use the micro-normal technique. Add a normal statement 
scaled very small.

normal{granite scale 0.01}

Then use a reasonable amount of antialiasing. Without antialiasing, the 
micro-normal will result in a grainy image.

Optionally : You may add some averaged blurring using a small number of 
textures. Using averaged textures and micro-normals, you can use about 4 
to 6 averaged textures and get very good results.


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