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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degroot org> wrote:
I am really thinking about a "Robert McGregor" kind of
> explanation. I am sure it can indeed be of benefit to others, if not for
> remembering myself on how to do certain things! I often have to reinvent
> my own wheels... ;-/
Yeah, well, there have been a couple of times when I looked online for some
POV-Ray code, found a pretty nice piece of code that seemed to be tailor-made
for exactly what I wanted it for, and then when I dug further to see who the
author was, in case they had written any more such code ....
....
it was my own code, which I had written for exactly what I wanted to use it for
- again. I'm not entirely sure how to describe how I feel when that happens.
:|
> Otherwise, I do much if not most by intuition and trial-and-error.
Well, this is exactly what some people need to hear in those exact words.
Otherwise they may speculate that you have a magic wand or crystal ball, or
secret knowledge handed down to you from the Dev Team or your colleagues at that
Ivy League computer science department PhD meeting....
Some people really do need to know that we just try new and different things
until we find out what works, and we reject "error terror" and come up with
reasons (that sound good at the time) to explore and try out new ideas.
This is a skill that has somehow gotten - lost.
But also, there are surely many 3rd-party tools and resources that you use in
the creation of your "scene assets". Why you picked them, what they're good
for, what they don't really do well, how you might combine 2 or 3 tools to make
a single object {}, .... Especially things like plants, which someone making
their first landscape scene would likely be most puzzled and daunted by.
Past scenes that inspired you, or that you recall some method that someone used
for a function, a texture, an effect...
Macros, include files, - all of that is likely a lot of unconscious stuff that
you draw upon to make landscape after landscape, each with very different themes
and styles.
> Especially the second half of the scene building process when the
> essential elements are in place one way or another, are time-consuming.
> It is this fine-tuning which consumes most of the time nowadays (in the
> past I felt a kind of "urgency" which drove me on towards the end; not
> always with best results I am afraid).
I hear that. I have to accept that sometimes I just have to work within the
available timetable, and get a scene file / render "published", else it will
just be another unknown POV-Ray file in a directory on a HDD somewhere, rather
than an accessible record/reminder to serve as a future starting point for
myself or someone else.
I know other people who won't release anything until it's "perfect", and indeed,
many of us here have worked on several projects either individually, or in
collaboration on a greater whole - that have taken several months, or more.
Still again, there are other projects that people have taken up and put down -
only getting posted after a great many years. Or 7 or 8 revisions get posted,
with each demonstrating some improvement in knowledge, inspiration, learning,
skill, access to tools, or new POV-Ray features.
It's certainly about the techniques and methods, but it's also a story.
I, for one, am glad you're planning on telling it. :)
"TdG: Architect of Landscapes and a Vast POV-Ray Archive, the Epic Saga"
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Hi Thomas,
This is a huge improvement, the old image was nice but this one is great, the
detail in the foreground is fantastic, the snow looks great and the texture
improvements really add to the scene.
It was well worth revisiting.
Sean
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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Journey to an Unknown Region - revisited
Date: 8 Feb 2023 10:51:00
Message: <63e3c4e4@news.povray.org>
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Op 8-2-2023 om 12:55 schreef Bald Eagle:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
> I am really thinking about a "Robert McGregor" kind of
>> explanation. I am sure it can indeed be of benefit to others, if not for
>> remembering myself on how to do certain things! I often have to reinvent
>> my own wheels... ;-/
>
> Yeah, well, there have been a couple of times when I looked online for some
> POV-Ray code, found a pretty nice piece of code that seemed to be tailor-made
> for exactly what I wanted it for, and then when I dug further to see who the
> author was, in case they had written any more such code ....
> ....
>
> it was my own code, which I had written for exactly what I wanted to use it for
> - again. I'm not entirely sure how to describe how I feel when that happens.
> :|
>
Yes, I fully understand!
>> Otherwise, I do much if not most by intuition and trial-and-error.
>
> Well, this is exactly what some people need to hear in those exact words.
> Otherwise they may speculate that you have a magic wand or crystal ball, or
> secret knowledge handed down to you from the Dev Team or your colleagues at that
> Ivy League computer science department PhD meeting....
aahh... you found me out... ;-)
> Some people really do need to know that we just try new and different things
> until we find out what works, and we reject "error terror" and come up with
> reasons (that sound good at the time) to explore and try out new ideas.
> This is a skill that has somehow gotten - lost.
>
Indeed. It may be that the art of (digital) doodling is getting lost (I
guess the increasing use of social media for instance) as it is one of
those fundamental activities which stimulate imagination and/or
inspiration. Too many apps or software just take just that out of your
hands. Disneyfying as it were.
> But also, there are surely many 3rd-party tools and resources that you use in
> the creation of your "scene assets". Why you picked them, what they're good
> for, what they don't really do well, how you might combine 2 or 3 tools to make
> a single object {}, .... Especially things like plants, which someone making
> their first landscape scene would likely be most puzzled and daunted by.
> Past scenes that inspired you, or that you recall some method that someone used
> for a function, a texture, an effect...
> Macros, include files, - all of that is likely a lot of unconscious stuff that
> you draw upon to make landscape after landscape, each with very different themes
> and styles.
>
Absolutely true.
>> Especially the second half of the scene building process when the
>> essential elements are in place one way or another, are time-consuming.
>> It is this fine-tuning which consumes most of the time nowadays (in the
>> past I felt a kind of "urgency" which drove me on towards the end; not
>> always with best results I am afraid).
>
> I hear that. I have to accept that sometimes I just have to work within the
> available timetable, and get a scene file / render "published", else it will
> just be another unknown POV-Ray file in a directory on a HDD somewhere, rather
> than an accessible record/reminder to serve as a future starting point for
> myself or someone else.
>
> I know other people who won't release anything until it's "perfect", and indeed,
> many of us here have worked on several projects either individually, or in
> collaboration on a greater whole - that have taken several months, or more.
>
> Still again, there are other projects that people have taken up and put down -
> only getting posted after a great many years. Or 7 or 8 revisions get posted,
> with each demonstrating some improvement in knowledge, inspiration, learning,
> skill, access to tools, or new POV-Ray features.
>
I think I have also followed those different paths. It depends on the
project; on the personal feeling about the (lack of) progress made; on
the hesitations about the choices made...
> It's certainly about the techniques and methods, but it's also a story.
> I, for one, am glad you're planning on telling it. :)
>
Yes, and thank you for your thoughts here which are stimulating and
guiding me in the right direction. Just have to write it up, huh? We
shall see; the start is the hardest part is my experience.
>
> "TdG: Architect of Landscapes and a Vast POV-Ray Archive, the Epic Saga"
>
LOL! I thought about "The Landscape Factory". The /Archive/.... that is
another thorn in my heel which I need to tackle too.
--
Thomas
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Op 8-2-2023 om 12:50 schreef Kenneth:
> I feel like I am standing right there on that majestic mountain. What a
> beautiful and sublime image! I do remember your earlier versions too, which were
> quite impressive.
>
> I especially like what appears to be a hint of wind-blown snow in the air, in
> front of one of your more distant craggy peaks, with the sunlight giving it a
> hazy look there. It certainly adds to the scale of the scene, its vastness, and
> the overall feeling of cold solitude. And realism!
>
somehow, the used media here is a tad less visible than in the original.
Maybe switching the scene from POV-Ray version 3.6 to 3.8 may have
something to do with it.
> The textures are superb too.
>
Aah, those have been a real pita! I have struggled for several months to
finally get something acceptable.
> This image will go into my folder of 'extraordinary POV-ray renders'. Excellent
> work.
>
Thank you indeed, Kenneth!
--
Thomas
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Op 8-2-2023 om 13:05 schreef s.day:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> This is a huge improvement, the old image was nice but this one is great, the
> detail in the foreground is fantastic, the snow looks great and the texture
> improvements really add to the scene.
>
> It was well worth revisiting.
>
Thank you Sean. At the time I was rather satisfied with the old image
although textures and foreground kept me uncertain, but I did not know
exactly how to tackle them.
--
Thomas
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It's funny what jumps out to you in the posts.
Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
> I often have to reinvent my own wheels...
>
I just got tired of doing just that making tires. So I wrote code that made all
the tires I'll every need. If I can remember where I where I put it.
Very Nice picture, I'm definitely that code!
Have Fun!!
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Op 08/02/2023 om 21:19 schreef Leroy:
>
> It's funny what jumps out to you in the posts.
>
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
>>
>> I often have to reinvent my own wheels...
>>
>
> I just got tired of doing just that making tires. So I wrote code that made all
> the tires I'll every need. If I can remember where I where I put it.
>
> Very Nice picture, I'm definitely that code!
>
> Have Fun!!
>
LOL, yes, I think that most of us have that same experience.
--
Thomas
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I love this image Thomas, very nicely done sir!
Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> I have the intention to write a HowTo about this scene, especially as -
> since 2009 - I have learned quite a lot of new tricks which I then
> applied here. I am really thinking about a "Robert McGregor" kind of
> explanation. I am sure it can indeed be of benefit to others, if not for
> remembering myself on how to do certain things! I often have to reinvent
> my own wheels... ;-/
I would also like to see a "me" kind of explanation of this image, as I could
certainly benefit from some new insights :)
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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Journey to an Unknown Region - revisited
Date: 11 Feb 2023 02:49:40
Message: <63e74894@news.povray.org>
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Op 11/02/2023 om 02:52 schreef Robert McGregor:
> I would also like to see a "me" kind of explanation of this image, as I could
> certainly benefit from some new insights :)
>
Working on it. ;-)
--
Thomas
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Am 07.02.2023 um 10:11 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
> Hi,
> Last December, looking for something else, I cam across my scene from 2009:
>
>
https://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/thread/%3C4b1bcc05%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=439213&toff=2250
>
> At the time, Christian Froeshlin suggested towards the end of that
> thread, to use a sub-heightfield to account for better details on the
> foreground. He kindly provided code to achieve this. For some reason, I
> never got around to get acquainted with the code and the project was put
> on hold.
>
> So, I started experimenting and I finally came up with two macros, one
> for "pure" functions, and one for height_field map-based functions
> (which need to be slightly cropped around the edges).
>
> I applied this last macro to my scene, excluded the scattering of rocks
> (I was not happy with those anyway), and took the opportunity to improve
> several awkward coding aspects of the scene, in particular the textures.
> The final result is this.
>
> If somebody is interested, I can provide the macros of course.
Indeed a very nice and realistic image. I only hope your bird of prey
will find a marmot behind the ridge.
Best regards
Michael
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