POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.binaries.images : Beam Engine Server Time
23 Jun 2021 02:21:07 EDT (-0400)
  Beam Engine (Message 14 to 23 of 23)  
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From: Mr
Subject: Re: Beam Engine
Date: 20 Jan 2021 16:55:01
Message: <web.6008a6a1f4c22fe216086ed00@news.povray.org>
"m@b" <sai### [at] googlemailcom> wrote:
> On 13/01/2021 4:08 am, Mr wrote:
> > "m@b" <sai### [at] googlemailcom> wrote:
> >> My first attempt at using radiosity.
> >> Comment welcome.
> >>
> >> m@
> >
> > The beams through media look very crisp and nice. here are a fex remarks in the
> > order that would matter most first:
> >
> >
> > There seems to be too much light from inside to have a balance that would reveal
> > radiosity well. Could the inside lights be dimmed ? maybe even remove with
> > radiosity. The scene would contrast more
> >
> >
> > Some of the colors are too saturated. (srgb? assumed_gamma?)
> >
> > the reflective elements, show too strong a total reflective amounts. You can use
> > conserve_energy and albedo keywords to solve that.
> >
>
> Thanks for the comments.
>
> I have reduced the gamma, gray_threshold and brightness.
>
> The steel-work is now a darker pigment and less reflective.
>
> Getting there slowly, this radiosity thing is complicated :-)
>
> m@

great improvements! Now the small dining table appears as a nice place to rest
the wandering eye... Cool details. Now the image is really passed the finished
state, but of course, one could always want to iterate more... so :
-I suspect the light outside is not parallel  sun like type and in that case too
close to the building because it makes beams directions diverge instead of
falling in the same direction if they were generated by sunlight.
-the red of the machine still slightly over saturated
-The mapping of what I assume to be metallic grids on the floor seems stretched
or unreadable.
-the floor seems too bright, clean and flat.
-The walls miss some history too. maybe just a little dirt in the corners,
textures allowing to identify what they are made of ?


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From: m@b
Subject: Re: Beam Engine
Date: 22 Jan 2021 03:52:18
Message: <e948ff83-230e-0384-77b7-7aceefb823e8@googlemail.com>
On 21/01/2021 5:54 am, Mr wrote:
> "m@b" <sai### [at] googlemailcom> wrote:
>> On 13/01/2021 4:08 am, Mr wrote:
>>> "m@b" <sai### [at] googlemailcom> wrote:
>>>> My first attempt at using radiosity.
>>>> Comment welcome.
>>>>
>>>> m@
>>>
>>> The beams through media look very crisp and nice. here are a fex remarks in the
>>> order that would matter most first:
>>>
>>>
>>> There seems to be too much light from inside to have a balance that would reveal
>>> radiosity well. Could the inside lights be dimmed ? maybe even remove with
>>> radiosity. The scene would contrast more
>>>
>>>
>>> Some of the colors are too saturated. (srgb? assumed_gamma?)
>>>
>>> the reflective elements, show too strong a total reflective amounts. You can use
>>> conserve_energy and albedo keywords to solve that.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the comments.
>>
>> I have reduced the gamma, gray_threshold and brightness.
>>
>> The steel-work is now a darker pigment and less reflective.
>>
>> Getting there slowly, this radiosity thing is complicated :-)
>>
>> m@
> 
> great improvements! Now the small dining table appears as a nice place to rest
> the wandering eye... Cool details. Now the image is really passed the finished
> state, but of course, one could always want to iterate more... so :
> -I suspect the light outside is not parallel  sun like type and in that case too
> close to the building because it makes beams directions diverge instead of
> falling in the same direction if they were generated by sunlight.
> -the red of the machine still slightly over saturated
> -The mapping of what I assume to be metallic grids on the floor seems stretched
> or unreadable.
> -the floor seems too bright, clean and flat.
> -The walls miss some history too. maybe just a little dirt in the corners,
> textures allowing to identify what they are made of ?
> 

The sun is 100 million units away and the beams are still not appearing 
to be parallel, any thoughts?

light_source{<-40, 55, 100>*1000000 color rgb<1,1,1>*10 parallel 
point_at <0,0,0>}

camera{ angle 50 location <-24,-15,-50> direction 1.5*z right 
x*image_width/image_height look_at <5, -10, 15>}

I have de-saturated the red and green a bit and increased the normals.
Added some bozo to the walls.
Made the floor grids a bigger scale to stop the interference pattern.
Increased the fade distance on the lamps to give some shadows on the wall.


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Attachments:
Download 'beam engine radiosity 02.png' (1267 KB)

Preview of image 'beam engine radiosity 02.png'
beam engine radiosity 02.png


 

From: m@b
Subject: Re: Beam Engine
Date: 22 Jan 2021 04:05:36
Message: <600a9560@news.povray.org>
On 12/01/2021 10:37 am, m@b wrote:
> My first attempt at using radiosity.
> Comment welcome.
> 
> m@

Here is the associated animation:

<https://youtu.be/BjGFyq6L5wE>

m@


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From: Subclick
Subject: Re: Beam Engine
Date: 22 Jan 2021 04:37:07
Message: <87y2gls471.fsf@sp.am>
"m@b" <sai### [at] googlemailcom> writes:
> The sun is 100 million units away and the beams
> are still not appearing to be parallel, any
> thoughts?
>
> light_source{<-40, 55, 100>*1000000 color
> rgb<1,1,1>*10 parallel point_at <0,0,0>}

The light rays emitted by that light source /are/ parallel.  Their
images, as produced by a perspective camera, are not supposed to
be—you’d need an orthographic camera for that.  Rather, they intersect
where the image of the Sun would be if it were visible.


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: Beam Engine
Date: 22 Jan 2021 10:03:21
Message: <600ae939$1@news.povray.org>

> The sun is 100 million units away and the beams are still not appearing 
> to be parallel, any thoughts?
> 
> light_source{<-40, 55, 100>*1000000 color rgb<1,1,1>*10 parallel 
> point_at <0,0,0>}
> 
> camera{ angle 50 location <-24,-15,-50> direction 1.5*z right 
> x*image_width/image_height look_at <5, -10, 15>}
> 

Your light don't need to be THAT far. You only need to make it just 
distant enough that it is farther than the farthest other object in your 
scene.

The parallel attribute ensure that all rays coming from it are 
effectively parallel.

What you are seeing is the effect of perspective that make the parallel 
rays of light appear to diverge.
As Subclick mentioned, using an orthographic camera will show that those 
rays are indeed parallel.
Also, if you place your camera very close to any of the windows and look 
back, toward the current camera location, then, the rays will appear to 
converge.


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From: Robert McGregor
Subject: Re: Beam Engine
Date: 22 Jan 2021 19:00:01
Message: <web.600b6570f4c22fe287570eab0@news.povray.org>
"m@b" <sai### [at] googlemailcom> wrote:
> I have de-saturated the red and green a bit and increased the normals.
> Added some bozo to the walls.
> Made the floor grids a bigger scale to stop the interference pattern.
> Increased the fade distance on the lamps to give some shadows on the wall.

This is looking much better than the original now. The lighting is more balanced
and the textures more realistic. The main thing that is distracting to my eye
are the aliasing artifacts, especially across the top of the green horizontal
beam. What antialiasing settings did you use?


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From: m@b
Subject: Re: Beam Engine
Date: 22 Jan 2021 21:22:14
Message: <600b8856$1@news.povray.org>
On 23/01/2021 7:55 am, Robert McGregor wrote:
> "m@b" <sai### [at] googlemailcom> wrote:
>> I have de-saturated the red and green a bit and increased the normals.
>> Added some bozo to the walls.
>> Made the floor grids a bigger scale to stop the interference pattern.
>> Increased the fade distance on the lamps to give some shadows on the wall.
> 
> This is looking much better than the original now. The lighting is more balanced
> and the textures more realistic. The main thing that is distracting to my eye
> are the aliasing artifacts, especially across the top of the green horizontal
> beam. What antialiasing settings did you use?
> 
> 
> 
> 

Antialias=On
Antialias_Threshold=0.3


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: Beam Engine
Date: 23 Jan 2021 10:23:57
Message: <600c3f8d$1@news.povray.org>
> On 23/01/2021 7:55 am, Robert McGregor wrote:
>> "m@b" <sai### [at] googlemailcom> wrote:
>>> I have de-saturated the red and green a bit and increased the normals.
>>> Added some bozo to the walls.
>>> Made the floor grids a bigger scale to stop the interference pattern.
>>> Increased the fade distance on the lamps to give some shadows on the 
>>> wall.
>>
>> This is looking much better than the original now. The lighting is 
>> more balanced
>> and the textures more realistic. The main thing that is distracting to 
>> my eye
>> are the aliasing artifacts, especially across the top of the green 
>> horizontal
>> beam. What antialiasing settings did you use?
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> Antialias=On
> Antialias_Threshold=0.3

When you have an area of mostly a primary colour next to something else, 
you often need to reduce the threshold quite a bit.
In this case, with green next to a dark area, you need to reduce the 
threshold at least by a factor of 3. So, it should be less than 0.1. You 
may need to go down to about 0.01 to get a good result.


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From: Cousin Ricky
Subject: Re: Beam Engine
Date: 23 Jan 2021 22:19:35
Message: <600ce747$1@news.povray.org>
On 2021-01-22 10:22 PM (-4), m@b wrote:
> On 23/01/2021 7:55 am, Robert McGregor wrote:
>>
>>  What antialiasing settings did you use?
> 
> Antialias=On
> Antialias_Threshold=0.3

I never use antialias threshold higher than 0.1.  In fact, I even put 
this line in my povray.ini:

   Antialias_threshold = 0.1;


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From: Mr
Subject: Re: Beam Engine
Date: 25 Jan 2021 12:50:01
Message: <web.600f044bf4c22fe26adeaecb0@news.povray.org>
"m@b" <sai### [at] googlemailcom> wrote:
> On 21/01/2021 5:54 am, Mr wrote:
> > "m@b" <sai### [at] googlemailcom> wrote:
> >> On 13/01/2021 4:08 am, Mr wrote:
> >>> "m@b" <sai### [at] googlemailcom> wrote:
> >>>> My first attempt at using radiosity.
> >>>> Comment welcome.
> >>>>
> >>>> m@
> >>>
> >>> The beams through media look very crisp and nice. here are a fex remarks in the
> >>> order that would matter most first:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> There seems to be too much light from inside to have a balance that would reveal
> >>> radiosity well. Could the inside lights be dimmed ? maybe even remove with
> >>> radiosity. The scene would contrast more
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Some of the colors are too saturated. (srgb? assumed_gamma?)
> >>>
> >>> the reflective elements, show too strong a total reflective amounts. You can use
> >>> conserve_energy and albedo keywords to solve that.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thanks for the comments.
> >>
> >> I have reduced the gamma, gray_threshold and brightness.
> >>
> >> The steel-work is now a darker pigment and less reflective.
> >>
> >> Getting there slowly, this radiosity thing is complicated :-)
> >>
> >> m@
> >
> > great improvements! Now the small dining table appears as a nice place to rest
> > the wandering eye... Cool details. Now the image is really passed the finished
> > state, but of course, one could always want to iterate more... so :
> > -I suspect the light outside is not parallel  sun like type and in that case too
> > close to the building because it makes beams directions diverge instead of
> > falling in the same direction if they were generated by sunlight.
> > -the red of the machine still slightly over saturated
> > -The mapping of what I assume to be metallic grids on the floor seems stretched
> > or unreadable.
> > -the floor seems too bright, clean and flat.
> > -The walls miss some history too. maybe just a little dirt in the corners,
> > textures allowing to identify what they are made of ?
> >
>
> The sun is 100 million units away and the beams are still not appearing
> to be parallel, any thoughts?
>
> light_source{<-40, 55, 100>*1000000 color rgb<1,1,1>*10 parallel
> point_at <0,0,0>}
>
> camera{ angle 50 location <-24,-15,-50> direction 1.5*z right
> x*image_width/image_height look_at <5, -10, 15>}
>
> I have de-saturated the red and green a bit and increased the normals.
> Added some bozo to the walls.
> Made the floor grids a bigger scale to stop the interference pattern.
> Increased the fade distance on the lamps to give some shadows on the wall.

Wow! The magic is comming in... And now they are indeed parallel enough to my so
unscientifically nitpicking taste :-D

Thanks Alain and Subclick for the great tips, I suggested a location tip
addition to parallel light wiki doc section.

I keep adding critics for constructive feedback believing in a great potential,
but be aware that you are already way above what I would be able to do :-))
Things that would I believe payback the most in that order :

Cracks / planks /tiles asperities in the floor, any kind of normal map texture
of your choice used to give it small shadowed and light reliefs that will
fragment the colored projections currently too neats but at a lower frequency
than pure noise.

I feel the wall could benefit slightly smaller bump scale (its depth is perfect
as appears in the animation. An aoi pattern or any other way to darkening its
corners might pay.

There seems to be some low frequency noise in your radiosity / photons solving,
if that is the case, could you try dividing the photon spacings for wall and
floor objects and increase their importance values ?

The animation is too continuous, and would benefit from a few sunden frame step
stops and jumps (as in an edited cut) when trajectory feels like waiting.

Now the reflectivities are perfect, the relief on the green painted metal looks
awesome... and mostly, the media is so promissing ! thanks for your inspiring
work.


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