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From: Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann
Subject: POV-Ray Archaeology: Yet Another Grass Scene by Vahur Krouverk, 1999-01-02
Date: 14 Nov 2019 02:45:23
Message: <5dcd0613@news.povray.org>
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Hi(gh)!
It took quite some time (7'36) on my single-core Pentium IV laptop...
but that's probably nothing compared to the original render time 20
years ago!
As the grass blades are spaced surprisingly far apart, I wonder how it
might look from a distance...
See you in Khyberspace!
Yadgar
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Attachments:
Download '1999-01-02 yet another grass scene (vahur krouverk) [rendered on 2019-11-14 by yadgar using pov-ray 3.1].png' (1200 KB)
Preview of image '1999-01-02 yet another grass scene (vahur krouverk) [rendered on 2019-11-14 by yadgar using pov-ray 3.1].png'
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From: Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Archaeology: Yet Another Grass Scene by Vahur Krouverk,1999-01-02
Date: 14 Nov 2019 03:27:04
Message: <5dcd0fd8@news.povray.org>
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Hi(gh)!
On 14.11.19 08:45, Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann wrote:
> As the grass blades are spaced surprisingly far apart, I wonder how it
> might look from a distance...
Not very convincing... I'll have to space the grass blades closer!
See you in Khyberspace!
Yadgar
Now playing: Warriors (Synergy)
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Attachments:
Download '1999-01-02 yet another grass scene (vahur krouverk) [rendered on 2019-11-14 by yadgar, using pov-ray 3.1 and different c' (1011 KB)
Preview of image '1999-01-02 yet another grass scene (vahur krouverk) [rendered on 2019-11-14 by yadgar, using pov-ray 3.1 and different c'
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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Archaeology: Yet Another Grass Scene by VahurKrouverk,1999-01-02
Date: 14 Nov 2019 03:30:57
Message: <5dcd10c1$1@news.povray.org>
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Op 14/11/2019 om 09:27 schreef Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann:
> Hi(gh)!
>
> On 14.11.19 08:45, Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann wrote:
>
>> As the grass blades are spaced surprisingly far apart, I wonder how it
>> might look from a distance...
>
> Not very convincing... I'll have to space the grass blades closer!
>
> See you in Khyberspace!
>
> Yadgar
>
> Now playing: Warriors (Synergy)
It looks like the grass patch is in the shadow of something. Clouds? Try
to rotate/translate the clouds' sphere (or plane) to a different position.
--
Thomas
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From: Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Archaeology: Yet Another Grass Scene byVahurKrouverk,1999-01-02
Date: 15 Nov 2019 20:57:25
Message: <5dcf5785@news.povray.org>
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Hi(gh)!
On 14.11.19 09:30, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> It looks like the grass patch is in the shadow of something. Clouds? Try
> to rotate/translate the clouds' sphere (or plane) to a different position.
Meanwhile, I stripped Vahur's scene down to the essentials, i. e. just
the grass blades and a basic soil... also scaled the grass down to 0.01
to match my usual measuring of 1 POV unit = 1 metre, replaced the
original camera by a camera system using direction and azimuth and
finally increased the number of blades (which are, properly,
three-partite blades) from originally 30,000 to 300,000.
Now (see attachments) it looks more realistic to me...
In future versions, I would like to use this density (25,000 blades per
square metre) as standard density and adapt the actual number of blades
according to the meadow's size.
Of course, this is another attempt at POVghanistan... starting with
public parks in cities on mostly flat terrain such als Herat or Mazar-e
Sharif (less difficult to code than mountainous Kabul - and also more
early "eye candy" for the interested public, such as the famous Timurid
mosques), and, most important, for the time being, not placed onto an
actual planetary sphere.
See you in Khyberspace!
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 1.jpg' (373 KB)
Download '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 2.jpg' (702 KB)
Preview of image '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 1.jpg'
Preview of image '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 2.jpg'
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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Archaeology: Yet Another Grass ScenebyVahurKrouverk,1999-01-02
Date: 16 Nov 2019 02:37:03
Message: <5dcfa71f@news.povray.org>
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Op 16/11/2019 om 03:57 schreef Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann:
> Now (see attachments) it looks more realistic to me...
>
> In future versions, I would like to use this density (25,000 blades per
> square metre) as standard density and adapt the actual number of blades
> according to the meadow's size.
Alternatively, you can use a patch: one single parsed square metre,
copied (rotated & translated) as often as necessary to cover a given
surface. Would be (slightly) faster but less memory heavy. Condition is
that the surface is not too bumpy however. Iirc, method introduced 20
years ago by Gilles Tran and Josh English.
>
> Of course, this is another attempt at POVghanistan... starting with
> public parks in cities on mostly flat terrain such als Herat or Mazar-e
> Sharif (less difficult to code than mountainous Kabul - and also more
> early "eye candy" for the interested public, such as the famous Timurid
> mosques), and, most important, for the time being, not placed onto an
> actual planetary sphere.
>
Of course!
--
Thomas
Post a reply to this message
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From: Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Archaeology: Yet Another GrassScenebyVahurKrouverk,1999-01-02
Date: 16 Nov 2019 13:38:29
Message: <5dd04225@news.povray.org>
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On 16.11.19 08:37, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Alternatively, you can use a patch: one single parsed square metre,
> copied (rotated & translated) as often as necessary to cover a given
> surface. Would be (slightly) faster but less memory heavy. Condition is
> that the surface is not too bumpy however. Iirc, method introduced 20
> years ago by Gilles Tran and Josh English.
Yes, I've heard about it... this would be convenient for flat lawns
inside cities, but in more rugged terrain, I'll have to use fully parsed
areas.
Meanwhile, I reduced the ambient value of the grass to 0.5 (original was
1) and rendered a series with different grass density values:
Image #1: "Insect view" (5 cms above ground) at the southern edge of the
patch, density 1 (25,000 grass blades per square metre)
Image #2: "Bird's view" (4 metres above ground) showing the entire 4 by
3 metres patch, density 1
Image #3: same as #1, density 0.5 - still credible as temperate oceanic
greenery (if I want to model some places in Cologne rather than
POVghanistan)
Image #4: same as #2, density 0.5
Image #5: same as #1, density 0.1 - Vahur Krouverk's original density
Image #6: same as #2, density 0.1
Image #7: same as #1, density 0.01 - meagre semi-desert goat pasture!
Welcome to Afghanistan!
Image #8: same as #2, density 0.01
Next step will be radiosity...
>
>>
>> Of course, this is another attempt at POVghanistan... starting with
>> public parks in cities on mostly flat terrain such als Herat or
>> Mazar-e Sharif (less difficult to code than mountainous Kabul - and
>> also more early "eye candy" for the interested public, such as the
>> famous Timurid mosques), and, most important, for the time being, not
>> placed onto an actual planetary sphere.
>>
>
> Of course!
After 25 years of mostly day-dreaming about Khyberspace, I now feel
ready to take on the enterprise to do it actually! Very possible that I
now seriously look for CG/3D-enthusiastic Afghans on the Internet
(probably younger than me) to join in the task of building Khyberspace -
not necessarily with POV-Ray, and also not only pre-1978 Afghanistan,
but also the futuristic "Afghatopia" mode!
See you in Khyberspace!
Yadgar
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 18 - insect view, density 1.jpg' (303 KB)
Download '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 19 - bird view, density 1.jpg' (175 KB)
Download '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 7 - insect view, density 0.5.jpg' (299 KB)
Download '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 20 - bird view, density 0.5.jpg' (179 KB)
Download '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 14 - insect view, density 0.1.jpg' (277 KB)
Download '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 9 - bird view, density 0.1.jpg' (197 KB)
Download '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 17 - insect view, density 0.01.jpg' (153 KB)
Download '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 12 - bird view, density 0.01.jpg' (118 KB)
Preview of image '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 18 - insect view, density 1.jpg'
Preview of image '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 19 - bird view, density 1.jpg'
Preview of image '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 7 - insect view, density 0.5.jpg'
Preview of image '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 20 - bird view, density 0.5.jpg'
Preview of image '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 14 - insect view, density 0.1.jpg'
Preview of image '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 9 - bird view, density 0.1.jpg'
Preview of image '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 17 - insect view, density 0.01.jpg'
Preview of image '2019-11-16 modified vahur krouverk's grass, take 12 - bird view, density 0.01.jpg'
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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Archaeology: Yet AnotherGrassScenebyVahurKrouverk,1999-01-02
Date: 17 Nov 2019 02:27:05
Message: <5dd0f649$1@news.povray.org>
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Op 16/11/2019 om 19:38 schreef Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann:
> On 16.11.19 08:37, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> Alternatively, you can use a patch: one single parsed square metre,
>> copied (rotated & translated) as often as necessary to cover a given
>> surface. Would be (slightly) faster but less memory heavy. Condition
>> is that the surface is not too bumpy however. Iirc, method introduced
>> 20 years ago by Gilles Tran and Josh English.
>
> Yes, I've heard about it... this would be convenient for flat lawns
> inside cities, but in more rugged terrain, I'll have to use fully parsed
> areas.
>
> Meanwhile, I reduced the ambient value of the grass to 0.5 (original was
> 1) and rendered a series with different grass density values:
>
> Image #1: "Insect view" (5 cms above ground) at the southern edge of the
> patch, density 1 (25,000 grass blades per square metre)
>
> Image #2: "Bird's view" (4 metres above ground) showing the entire 4 by
> 3 metres patch, density 1
>
> Image #3: same as #1, density 0.5 - still credible as temperate oceanic
> greenery (if I want to model some places in Cologne rather than
> POVghanistan)
>
> Image #4: same as #2, density 0.5
>
> Image #5: same as #1, density 0.1 - Vahur Krouverk's original density
>
> Image #6: same as #2, density 0.1
>
> Image #7: same as #1, density 0.01 - meagre semi-desert goat pasture!
> Welcome to Afghanistan!
>
> Image #8: same as #2, density 0.01
Looking good. With the lower densities, I would probably expect more
clumping of the grass blades. I don't know if Vahur Krouverk's patch
provides for that possibility though. Otherwise you will need to add it.
>
> Next step will be radiosity...
yep.
>
>>
>>>
>>> Of course, this is another attempt at POVghanistan... starting with
>>> public parks in cities on mostly flat terrain such als Herat or
>>> Mazar-e Sharif (less difficult to code than mountainous Kabul - and
>>> also more early "eye candy" for the interested public, such as the
>>> famous Timurid mosques), and, most important, for the time being, not
>>> placed onto an actual planetary sphere.
>>>
>>
>> Of course!
>
> After 25 years of mostly day-dreaming about Khyberspace, I now feel
> ready to take on the enterprise to do it actually! Very possible that I
> now seriously look for CG/3D-enthusiastic Afghans on the Internet
> (probably younger than me) to join in the task of building Khyberspace -
> not necessarily with POV-Ray, and also not only pre-1978 Afghanistan,
> but also the futuristic "Afghatopia" mode!
>
I admire your dedication. I'll stay tuned to Radio Kabul. :-)
--
Thomas
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From: Paolo Gibellini
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Archaeology: Yet AnotherGrassScenebyVahurKrouverk,1999-01-02
Date: 18 Nov 2019 04:11:17
Message: <5dd26035$1@news.povray.org>
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Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann wrote on 16/11/2019 19:38:
> On 16.11.19 08:37, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> Alternatively, you can use a patch: one single parsed square metre,
>> copied (rotated & translated) as often as necessary to cover a given
>> surface. Would be (slightly) faster but less memory heavy. Condition
>> is that the surface is not too bumpy however. Iirc, method introduced
>> 20 years ago by Gilles Tran and Josh English.
>
> Yes, I've heard about it... this would be convenient for flat lawns
> inside cities, but in more rugged terrain, I'll have to use fully parsed
> areas.
>
> Meanwhile, I reduced the ambient value of the grass to 0.5 (original was
> 1) and rendered a series with different grass density values:
>
> Image #1: "Insect view" (5 cms above ground) at the southern edge of the
> patch, density 1 (25,000 grass blades per square metre)
>
> Image #2: "Bird's view" (4 metres above ground) showing the entire 4 by
> 3 metres patch, density 1
>
> Image #3: same as #1, density 0.5 - still credible as temperate oceanic
> greenery (if I want to model some places in Cologne rather than
> POVghanistan)
>
> Image #4: same as #2, density 0.5
>
> Image #5: same as #1, density 0.1 - Vahur Krouverk's original density
>
> Image #6: same as #2, density 0.1
>
> Image #7: same as #1, density 0.01 - meagre semi-desert goat pasture!
> Welcome to Afghanistan!
>
> Image #8: same as #2, density 0.01
>
> Next step will be radiosity...
>
>>
>>>
>>> Of course, this is another attempt at POVghanistan... starting with
>>> public parks in cities on mostly flat terrain such als Herat or
>>> Mazar-e Sharif (less difficult to code than mountainous Kabul - and
>>> also more early "eye candy" for the interested public, such as the
>>> famous Timurid mosques), and, most important, for the time being, not
>>> placed onto an actual planetary sphere.
>>>
>>
>> Of course!
>
> After 25 years of mostly day-dreaming about Khyberspace, I now feel
> ready to take on the enterprise to do it actually! Very possible that I
> now seriously look for CG/3D-enthusiastic Afghans on the Internet
> (probably younger than me) to join in the task of building Khyberspace -
> not necessarily with POV-Ray, and also not only pre-1978 Afghanistan,
> but also the futuristic "Afghatopia" mode!
>
> See you in Khyberspace!
>
> Yadgar
>
I like the results. With an appropriate terrain the grass will looks
very good.
Paolo
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From: Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Archaeology: YetAnotherGrassScenebyVahurKrouverk,1999-01-02
Date: 18 Nov 2019 09:31:59
Message: <5dd2ab5f$1@news.povray.org>
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Hi(gh)!
On 17.11.19 08:27, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> yep.
Meanwhile, I did two radiosity scenes (at density = 1), see attachments!
It's still very basic radiosity, I will improve it soon...
> I admire your dedication. I'll stay tuned to Radio Kabul. :-)
But don't expect too much - modeling places from afar, not to mention an
entire country, with only photos and low-accuracy maps as templates, is
a titanic task, modeling places from afar as they looked 50 years ago is
practically impossible! Especially with such undeveloped places like
Afghanistan - for Cologne, I have cadastral maps at 1:500 (!), while in
Afghanistan I doubt that such maps ever existed, surely not for the
early 1970s, and even cadastral maps showing the present-day situation,
if they exist at all, most likely would be treated as a state secret,
which means absolutely out of reach.
So even when it comes to the very conception of Khyberspace, I probably
have to re-think the whole project, and - though I always wanted to
avoid meddling with present-day Afghanistan, with all that destruction,
mass displacements, military infrastructure, unchecked urban sprawl and
cheap tacky consumer stuff flooding the country - have to start with
the template sources practically available both digital and printed, and
the overwhelming majority of them is post-2001, so any representation of
Afghanistan in Khyberspace will have to be a blend of the present-day
situation, extrapolated back to 1970 wherever possible (but in many
cases this will have to be left to artistic license!) and the few actual
sources.
No, Khyberspace will not be able to present an authentic "Hippie
Afghanistan", but merely an artificial product of my presuppositions
and, yes, even psychological projections, intermingled with hard
evidence. Same goes of course for the "Afghatopia 2050" mode...
For the early 1970s, I probably will have to rely mainly on printed
sources, such as the publications from the Center for Afghanistan
Studies at the University of Nebraska or the famous German-spoken
"Afghanistan Journal" (which, by the way, contains numerous groundplan
shapes of historic landmark buildings like Herat's Friday Mosque).
Vahur Krouverk's grass script inspired me to start with park lawns in
Afghan cities like Herat - but with Herat, I soon found out that in the
1970s, the neat clean park in front of the Friday Mosque which is shown
for example here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mosque_of_Herat#/media/File:Friday_Mosque_in_Herat,_Afghanistan.jpg
simply did not exist at all - there was only a wide untended, partially
swampy meadow!
So I'm torn between two options - of course the park is nicer and more
interesting to render than that ugly hippie-age bog (and of course there
are much more and much better pictures of it on the web). Do I want to
create a beautiful or an authentic Khyberspace? And, on a more
philosophical level: what means "authenticity" when sources are scarce
and, at least with me, no personal experience can be built upon?
Still, see you in Khyberspace!
Yadgar
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From: Dick Balaska
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Archaeology:YetAnotherGrassScenebyVahurKrouverk,1999-01-02
Date: 18 Nov 2019 11:31:48
Message: <5dd2c774$1@news.povray.org>
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On 11/18/19 9:32 AM, Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann wrote:
>
> No, Khyberspace will not be able to present an authentic "Hippie
> Afghanistan", but merely an artificial product of my presuppositions
> and, yes, even psychological projections, intermingled with hard
> evidence. Same goes of course for the "Afghatopia 2050" mode...
But isn't that what all artists do?
Even photographers are creating an artificial representation of their
subject by selectively cropping out what they don't want you to see.
I wouldn't worry about it. You make your world.
Actually, I was recently thinking about complaining that we haven't seen
a Povghanistan update in quite a while.
--
dik
Rendered 24,806,476,800 of 49,882,521,600 pixels (49%)
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