Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 7/26/2017 12:55 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:

> > Close Encounters of the Third(?) Kind? :-)

Close.  "The Greatest American Hero"
(With Robert Culp from I Spy (!) :O )

> That's what I was thinking.
>
> I thought that they would be earlier than the 80's.

Yes, but only slightly. 1977

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On 7/26/2017 2:58 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>> On 7/26/2017 12:55 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>>> Close Encounters of the Third(?) Kind? :-)
>
> Close.  "The Greatest American Hero"
> (With Robert Culp from I Spy (!) :O )
>
>> That's what I was thinking.
>>
>> I thought that they would be earlier than the 80's.
>
> Yes, but only slightly. 1977
>

Whoosh! That went completely over my head. Not only have I never heard 
of the movie. The image looked like a neon tube mounted in an old 
fashioned lampshade.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Am 26.07.2017 um 16:44 schrieb Stephen:

> Whoosh! That went completely over my head. Not only have I never heard
> of the movie. The image looked like a neon tube mounted in an old
> fashioned lampshade.

Given the state-of-the-art special effects back then, maybe it /was/ a
neon tube mounted in an old fashioned lampshade after all ;)

Post a reply to this message

On 26.07.2017 07:28, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 26-7-2017 13:20, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 26-7-2017 2:01, Sven Littkowski wrote:
>>> Latest Scene Code, Latest Bump, Latest Result
>>> (still no bumps)
>>>
>>
>> I didn't change anything to your code and used the bump map provided,
>> and this is what I get: bumps *are* visible!
>>
> 
> Not entirely true ;-)
> 
> I added:
> 
> global_settings {
>   assumed_gamma 1.0
> }
> 
> which was demanded by your kolors.inc (and for obvious reasons when
> using version 3.7) and I provided a uniform red colour texture for the
> balloon (as an image_map).
> 
I am not understanding this. I added the assumed gamma (but kept the
texture as it is), and still nothing of the bump shows! I really want to
use an images as texture. Please try my scene with the assumed gama, and
post the resulting image.

I am attaching the scene code, the bump image, and the resulting scene
image.

------------------------

#version 3.7;

#include "kolors.inc"
#include "finish.inc"
#include "textures.inc"

#declare MyRadiosity = off;
//#declare MyBackground = "SL_Space_Scene_003"; // Wormhole /
SL_Space_Scene_003 /

global_settings
{
 #if(MyRadiosity)
  radiosity
  {
   media on
   pretrace_start 0.08
   pretrace_end   0.001
   count 400
   error_bound 0.75
   recursion_limit 1
   normal on
  }
 #end
 assumed_gamma 1.0
 subsurface        {}
 adc_bailout       0.0039
 ambient_light     rgb < 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 >
 assumed_gamma     1.000
 irid_wavelength   rgb < 0.250, 0.180, 0.140 >
 max_trace_level   5
 number_of_waves   10
 noise_generator   3
 charset           ascii
}

#declare LightDiameter =     10000.0;
#declare LightDistanceX =  -500000.0; // X = Left - Right
#declare LightDistanceY =  1000000.0; // Y = Up - Down
#declare LightDistanceZ =  -100000.0; // Z = Front - Back
#declare LightRotate =          36.0;
#declare MyLight =             0.125;

camera
{
 location < -000.0, 400.0, -500.0 >
 look_at < 0.0, -200.0, 0.0 >
 right 1.77*x
}

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------


light_source
{
 < 2500.0, 2500.0, 500.0 > //< 2500.0, 2500.0, 5000.0 >
 rgb < 0.72265625, 0.8046875, 0.80859375 > *1.5 // bright!?
 area_light x*100,z*100,5,5 circular orient
 area_illumination
}
/*
light_source
{
 < -50.0, 50.0, 0.0 >
 rgb < 0.3, 0.4, 0.8 > *1.1
}
*/
/*
#declare MyLight = light_source
{
 < -1000.0, 1000.0, 1000.0 >
 rgb < 0.72265625, 0.8046875, 0.80859375 > *0.25
// spotlight
// point_at < 0.0, 25.0, 100.0 >
// falloff 100.0
// radius 10.0
// fade_distance 50.0
// fade_power 4
}

union
{
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 036.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 072.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 108.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 144.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 216.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 252.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 288.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 324.0, 0.0 > }
 translate < -1000.0, 0000.0, -1000.0 >
}
*/

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

#declare MyRadius = 200.0;

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

#declare PositiveBump = normal
{
 bump_map
 {
  png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher - Balloon -
Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon BumpMap.png"
 }
 translate -0.5
 rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
 scale MyRadius*2
 bump_size 0.02
}

#declare NegativeBump = normal
{
 bump_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher -
Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon BumpMap.png" map_type 0
interpolate 2 }
 translate -0.5
 rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
 scale -MyRadius*2
 bump_size 0.04
}

#declare MyOuterBalloonFinish = finish
{
// reflection   0.00
 crand        0.10
}

#declare MyInnerBalloonFinish = finish
{
 brilliance   1.50
 phong albedo 0.05
 metallic     0.00
 ambient      0.00
 emission     0.00
 reflection   0.50
}

#declare MyOuterBalloonTexture = texture
{
 pigment
 {
  image_map
  {
   png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher - Balloon -
Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon Texture.png"
   gamma 1
   map_type 0
   interpolate 2
   once
  }
  translate -0.5
  rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
  scale MyRadius*2
 }
 normal
 {
  gradient y
  normal_map
  {
   [ 0.175 PositiveBump ]
   [ 0.175 NegativeBump ]
  }
  scale < 1.0, 1.5*MyRadius, 1.0 >
 }
 finish { MyOuterBalloonFinish }
}

#declare MyInnerBalloonTexture = texture
{
 pigment { color rgb < 0.7686275,  0.7607843,  0.7333333 > }
 normal
 {
  gradient y
  normal_map
  {
   [ 0.175 PositiveBump ]
   [ 0.175 NegativeBump ]
  }
  scale <1,1.5*MyRadius,1>
 }
 finish { MyInnerBalloonFinish }
}

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

#declare UpperBalloonShape = torus     // Balloon Radius: 175 m /
Launcher Radius: 10 m
{
 95.0, 105.0
 scale < 1.0, 0.5, 1.0 >
}

#declare LowerBalloonShape = difference
{
 sphere { < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > MyRadius }
 cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > < 0.0, 175.001, 0.0 > MyRadius+0.001 }
 scale < 1.0, 1.5, 1.0 >
}

#declare MyBalloonHullOutside = union
{
 object { UpperBalloonShape }
 object { LowerBalloonShape }
 texture { MyOuterBalloonTexture }
}

#declare MyBalloonHull = difference
{
 object { MyBalloonHullOutside hollow }
 cylinder  // Launcher Openings
 {
  < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+0.001), 0.0 > < 0.0, (MyRadius+0.001), 0.0 > 3.5
  texture { MyInnerBalloonTexture }
 }
}

#declare Launcher = difference
{
 union
 {
  #declare MyLength = 10.0;
  #declare MyHeight = 0.0;
  #declare MyTop = 35.0;
  cylinder { < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+30.0), 0.0 > < 0.0, MyTop, 0.0 >
3.5 }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 045.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 090.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 135.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 225.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 270.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 315.0, 0.0 > }
 }
 cylinder { < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+30.001), 0.0 > < 0.0, MyTop+0.001,
0.0 > 3.3 }
 pigment { color rgb 1.0 }
}

#declare DoublePositionLight = union
{
 union
 {
  cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0,  2.5 > < 10.0, 0.0,  2.5 > 0.20 }
  cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0, -2.5 > < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 > 0.20 }
  pigment { color rgb < 0.05, 0.05, 0.05 > }
  finish { MyOuterBalloonFinish }
 }
 union
 {
  sphere { < 10.0, 0.0, 2.5 > 0.35 }
  sphere { < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 > 0.35 }
  pigment { color rgbf < 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.5 > }
  finish { ambient rgb < 0.3, 0.1, 0.1 > }
 }
 union
 {
  light_source
  {
   < 10.0, 0.0, 2.5 >
   rgb < 0.7, 0.0, 0.0 > *10.0
   fade_distance 50.0
   fade_power 4
  }
  light_source
  {
   < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 >
   rgb < 0.7, 0.0, 0.0 > *1.0
   fade_distance 50.0
   fade_power 4
  }
 }
}

#declare PositionLights = union
{
 #declare MyDistance = MyRadius-0.1;
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 045.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 090.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 135.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 225.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 270.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 315.0, 0.0 > }
}

union
{
 object { MyBalloonHull }
 object { Launcher }
 object { PositionLights }
}

background { rgb < 0.02392157,  0.03490196,  0.04627451 > }


---
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Attachments:
Download 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings.png' (172 KB) Download 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings - balloon bumpmap.png' (201 KB)

Preview of image 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings.png'

Preview of image 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings - balloon bumpmap.png'

On 26.07.2017 10:47, clipka wrote:
> Am 26.07.2017 um 16:44 schrieb Stephen:
> 
>> Whoosh! That went completely over my head. Not only have I never heard
>> of the movie. The image looked like a neon tube mounted in an old
>> fashioned lampshade.
> 
> Given the state-of-the-art special effects back then, maybe it /was/ a
> neon tube mounted in an old fashioned lampshade after all ;)
> 
Coming back into the cinemas. Alas they did not add the latest effects
and spaceship designs to that great movie. I've seen the original movie.
Great movie.

---------

Still not getting any bumps, feeling very frustrated now. I want to keep
my texture image file, not replacing it with a single color.

Attached are scene code, bump image, and resulting bump-less scene
image. Are you people getting bumps the way it is?

--------------------
#version 3.7;

#include "kolors.inc"
#include "finish.inc"
#include "textures.inc"

#declare MyRadiosity = off;
//#declare MyBackground = "SL_Space_Scene_003"; // Wormhole /
SL_Space_Scene_003 /

global_settings
{
 #if(MyRadiosity)
  radiosity
  {
   media on
   pretrace_start 0.08
   pretrace_end   0.001
   count 400
   error_bound 0.75
   recursion_limit 1
   normal on
  }
 #end
 assumed_gamma 1.0
 subsurface        {}
 adc_bailout       0.0039
 ambient_light     rgb < 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 >
 assumed_gamma     1.000
 irid_wavelength   rgb < 0.250, 0.180, 0.140 >
 max_trace_level   5
 number_of_waves   10
 noise_generator   3
 charset           ascii
}

#declare LightDiameter =     10000.0;
#declare LightDistanceX =  -500000.0; // X = Left - Right
#declare LightDistanceY =  1000000.0; // Y = Up - Down
#declare LightDistanceZ =  -100000.0; // Z = Front - Back
#declare LightRotate =          36.0;
#declare MyLight =             0.125;

camera
{
 location < -000.0, 400.0, -500.0 >
 look_at < 0.0, -200.0, 0.0 >
 right 1.77*x
}

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------


light_source
{
 < 2500.0, 2500.0, 500.0 > //< 2500.0, 2500.0, 5000.0 >
 rgb < 0.72265625, 0.8046875, 0.80859375 > *1.5 // bright!?
 area_light x*100,z*100,5,5 circular orient
 area_illumination
}
/*
light_source
{
 < -50.0, 50.0, 0.0 >
 rgb < 0.3, 0.4, 0.8 > *1.1
}
*/
/*
#declare MyLight = light_source
{
 < -1000.0, 1000.0, 1000.0 >
 rgb < 0.72265625, 0.8046875, 0.80859375 > *0.25
// spotlight
// point_at < 0.0, 25.0, 100.0 >
// falloff 100.0
// radius 10.0
// fade_distance 50.0
// fade_power 4
}

union
{
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 036.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 072.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 108.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 144.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 216.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 252.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 288.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 324.0, 0.0 > }
 translate < -1000.0, 0000.0, -1000.0 >
}
*/

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

#declare MyRadius = 200.0;

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

#declare PositiveBump = normal
{
 bump_map
 {
  png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher - Balloon -
Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon BumpMap.png"
 }
 translate -0.5
 rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
 scale MyRadius*2
 bump_size 0.02
}

#declare NegativeBump = normal
{
 bump_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher -
Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon BumpMap.png" map_type 0
interpolate 2 }
 translate -0.5
 rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
 scale -MyRadius*2
 bump_size 0.04
}

#declare MyOuterBalloonFinish = finish
{
// reflection   0.00
 crand        0.10
}

#declare MyInnerBalloonFinish = finish
{
 brilliance   1.50
 phong albedo 0.05
 metallic     0.00
 ambient      0.00
 emission     0.00
 reflection   0.50
}

#declare MyOuterBalloonTexture = texture
{
 pigment
 {
  image_map
  {
   png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher - Balloon -
Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon Texture.png"
   gamma 1
   map_type 0
   interpolate 2
   once
  }
  translate -0.5
  rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
  scale MyRadius*2
 }
 normal
 {
  gradient y
  normal_map
  {
   [ 0.175 PositiveBump ]
   [ 0.175 NegativeBump ]
  }
  scale < 1.0, 1.5*MyRadius, 1.0 >
 }
 finish { MyOuterBalloonFinish }
}

#declare MyInnerBalloonTexture = texture
{
 pigment { color rgb < 0.7686275,  0.7607843,  0.7333333 > }
 normal
 {
  gradient y
  normal_map
  {
   [ 0.175 PositiveBump ]
   [ 0.175 NegativeBump ]
  }
  scale <1,1.5*MyRadius,1>
 }
 finish { MyInnerBalloonFinish }
}

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

#declare UpperBalloonShape = torus     // Balloon Radius: 175 m /
Launcher Radius: 10 m
{
 95.0, 105.0
 scale < 1.0, 0.5, 1.0 >
}

#declare LowerBalloonShape = difference
{
 sphere { < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > MyRadius }
 cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > < 0.0, 175.001, 0.0 > MyRadius+0.001 }
 scale < 1.0, 1.5, 1.0 >
}

#declare MyBalloonHullOutside = union
{
 object { UpperBalloonShape }
 object { LowerBalloonShape }
 texture { MyOuterBalloonTexture }
}

#declare MyBalloonHull = difference
{
 object { MyBalloonHullOutside hollow }
 cylinder  // Launcher Openings
 {
  < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+0.001), 0.0 > < 0.0, (MyRadius+0.001), 0.0 > 3.5
  texture { MyInnerBalloonTexture }
 }
}

#declare Launcher = difference
{
 union
 {
  #declare MyLength = 10.0;
  #declare MyHeight = 0.0;
  #declare MyTop = 35.0;
  cylinder { < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+30.0), 0.0 > < 0.0, MyTop, 0.0 >
3.5 }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 045.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 090.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 135.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 225.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 270.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 315.0, 0.0 > }
 }
 cylinder { < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+30.001), 0.0 > < 0.0, MyTop+0.001,
0.0 > 3.3 }
 pigment { color rgb 1.0 }
}

#declare DoublePositionLight = union
{
 union
 {
  cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0,  2.5 > < 10.0, 0.0,  2.5 > 0.20 }
  cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0, -2.5 > < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 > 0.20 }
  pigment { color rgb < 0.05, 0.05, 0.05 > }
  finish { MyOuterBalloonFinish }
 }
 union
 {
  sphere { < 10.0, 0.0, 2.5 > 0.35 }
  sphere { < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 > 0.35 }
  pigment { color rgbf < 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.5 > }
  finish { ambient rgb < 0.3, 0.1, 0.1 > }
 }
 union
 {
  light_source
  {
   < 10.0, 0.0, 2.5 >
   rgb < 0.7, 0.0, 0.0 > *10.0
   fade_distance 50.0
   fade_power 4
  }
  light_source
  {
   < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 >
   rgb < 0.7, 0.0, 0.0 > *1.0
   fade_distance 50.0
   fade_power 4
  }
 }
}

#declare PositionLights = union
{
 #declare MyDistance = MyRadius-0.1;
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 045.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 090.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 135.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 225.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 270.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 315.0, 0.0 > }
}

union
{
 object { MyBalloonHull }
 object { Launcher }
 object { PositionLights }
}

background { rgb < 0.02392157,  0.03490196,  0.04627451 > }



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Attachments:
Download 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings - balloon bumpmap.png' (201 KB) Download 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings.png' (172 KB)

Preview of image 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings - balloon bumpmap.png'

Preview of image 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings.png'

Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:

> Whoosh! That went completely over my head. Not only have I never heard
> of the movie. The image looked like a neon tube mounted in an old
> fashioned lampshade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_American_Hero

Pretty sure it was lights on the bottom of a hot air balloon, which is why this
reminds me so much of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Q3orQhEcA

Maybe Sven needs to add some light sources to the scene...   :D

Post a reply to this message

Am 26.07.2017 um 17:46 schrieb Sven Littkowski:
> On 26.07.2017 10:47, clipka wrote:
>> Am 26.07.2017 um 16:44 schrieb Stephen:
>>
>>> Whoosh! That went completely over my head. Not only have I never heard
>>> of the movie. The image looked like a neon tube mounted in an old
>>> fashioned lampshade.
>>
>> Given the state-of-the-art special effects back then, maybe it /was/ a
>> neon tube mounted in an old fashioned lampshade after all ;)
>>
> Coming back into the cinemas. Alas they did not add the latest effects
> and spaceship designs to that great movie. I've seen the original movie.
> Great movie.
> 
> ---------
> 
> Still not getting any bumps, feeling very frustrated now. I want to keep
> my texture image file, not replacing it with a single color.

At the moment, all seems to point at the pigment definition as the
culprit, as that's the only relevant thing we've always changed. You
should at least /try/ it with a plain pigment, to either confirm or
refute this theory.

If you can confirm it, we know that's what we have to examine further;
in that case you'll probably want to post the image map at last, so that
we can see what might be so special about it.

Otherwise we can be sure that it's a red herring, and that we have to
dig someplace else.

Post a reply to this message

Am 26.07.2017 um 18:37 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Q3orQhEcA

You know you'll be going straight to The Hague for posting this, right?

Post a reply to this message

I believe what's going on is your image map is too dark and there's no specular
highlight or phone home and load in your outer finish statement.
I'm not home to test that theory out.

Bob

Post a reply to this message

"omniverse" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote:
> I believe what's going on is your image map is too dark and there's no specular
> highlight or phong* in your outer finish statement.
> I'm not home to test that theory out.

* edited. note to self: don't talk to text these povray messages by smart phone!

Post a reply to this message

On 26.07.2017 21:54, omniverse wrote:
> "omniverse" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote:
>> I believe what's going on is your image map is too dark and there's no s
pecular
>> highlight or phong* in your outer finish statement.
>> I'm not home to test that theory out.
> 
> * edited. note to self: don't talk to text these povray messages by smart
 phone!
> 
> 
You mean, I should use a different angle for the light source?

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On 26.07.2017 15:04, clipka wrote:
> Am 26.07.2017 um 17:46 schrieb Sven Littkowski:
>> On 26.07.2017 10:47, clipka wrote:
>>> Am 26.07.2017 um 16:44 schrieb Stephen:
>>>
>>>> Whoosh! That went completely over my head. Not only have I never heard

>>>> of the movie. The image looked like a neon tube mounted in an old
>>>> fashioned lampshade.
>>>
>>> Given the state-of-the-art special effects back then, maybe it /was/ a
>>> neon tube mounted in an old fashioned lampshade after all ;)
>>>
>> Coming back into the cinemas. Alas they did not add the latest effects
>> and spaceship designs to that great movie. I've seen the original movie.

>> Great movie.
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Still not getting any bumps, feeling very frustrated now. I want to keep

>> my texture image file, not replacing it with a single color.
> 
> At the moment, all seems to point at the pigment definition as the
> culprit, as that's the only relevant thing we've always changed. You
> should at least /try/ it with a plain pigment, to either confirm or
> refute this theory.
> 
> If you can confirm it, we know that's what we have to examine further;
> in that case you'll probably want to post the image map at last, so that
> we can see what might be so special about it.
> 
> Otherwise we can be sure that it's a red herring, and that we have to
> dig someplace else.
> 
Nope. Here's a one-color pigment. :-(

texture source code:
------------------

#declare MyOuterBalloonTexture = texture
{
 pigment
 {
  color rgb < 0.2, 0.9, 0.0 >
/*  image_map
  {
   png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher - Balloon -
Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon Texture.png"
   gamma 1
   map_type 0
   interpolate 2
   once
  }
  translate -0.5
  rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
  scale MyRadius*2   */
 }
 normal
 {
  gradient y
  normal_map
  {
   [ 0.175 PositiveBump ]
   [ 0.175 NegativeBump ]
  }
  scale < 1.0, 1.5*MyRadius, 1.0 >
 }
// finish { MyOuterBalloonFinish }
}


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Attachments:
Download 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings.png' (70 KB)

Preview of image 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings.png'

On 26.07.2017 12:37, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> 
>> Whoosh! That went completely over my head. Not only have I never heard
>> of the movie. The image looked like a neon tube mounted in an old
>> fashioned lampshade.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_American_Hero
> 
> Pretty sure it was lights on the bottom of a hot air balloon, which is wh
y this
> reminds me so much of it.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Q3orQhEcA
> 
> Maybe Sven needs to add some light sources to the scene...   :D
> 
But I have a light source there. You mean, I should add more light sources?


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Sven Littkowski <I### [at] SvenLittkowskiname> wrote:
> On 26.07.2017 12:37, Bald Eagle wrote:
> > Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> >
> >> Whoosh! That went completely over my head. Not only have I never heard
> >> of the movie. The image looked like a neon tube mounted in an old
> >> fashioned lampshade.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_American_Hero
> >
> > Pretty sure it was lights on the bottom of a hot air balloon, which is wh
> y this
> > reminds me so much of it.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Q3orQhEcA
> >
> > Maybe Sven needs to add some light sources to the scene...   :D
> >
> But I have a light source there. You mean, I should add more light sources?

":D" big grin face, so I'm sure Bald Eagle was jesting, at least mostly I'm
guessing.

Having seen your green balloon using that same bump_map... something is
obviously wrong. I think we have all had trouble understanding why it only
happens for you.

Is that version of POV-Ray official or custom?

Probably what we all need to know is at this point is if a test of a simple
normal statement on a simple object is okay or not.

Not knowing what else you've done to check what's going on, maybe forget about
the balloon for now and render this and you should see a bumpy ball (camera NOT
needed! default camera used):

#version 3.7;

global_settings {
 assumed_gamma 1
  }
light_source {
  <-20, 40, -20>
  color rgb <1,1,1>
}

sphere {0,1
 texture {
  pigment{ color rgb <1,1,1> }
  normal { bumps bump_size 1 }
  finish { specular 0.1 }
 scale 0.2
}
translate <0,0,3>
}

Post a reply to this message

Sven Littkowski <I### [at] SvenLittkowskiname> wrote:
> On 26.07.2017 21:54, omniverse wrote:
> > "omniverse" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote:
> >> I believe what's going on is your image map is too dark and there's no
> >> specular highlight or phong highlight in your outer finish statement.
> >
> You mean, I should use a different angle for the light source?

No, sorry, just that there's nothing at all in your outer finish statement to
affect lighting and shadowing.


#declare MyOuterBalloonFinish = finish
{
// reflection   0.00
 crand        0.10
}

#declare MyInnerBalloonFinish = finish
{
 brilliance   1.50
 phong albedo 0.05
 metallic     0.00
 ambient      0.00
 emission     0.00
 reflection   0.50
}


As you can see there, the inner finish does have highlighting via phong but it's
very little and can't be seen from outside (without transparency for outside).

Bob

Post a reply to this message

"omniverse" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote:
> there's nothing at all in your outer finish statement to
> affect lighting and shadowing.
>
>
> #declare MyOuterBalloonFinish = finish
> {
> // reflection   0.00
>  crand        0.10
> }

Sorry again. I wasn't smart there. Of course, default 'diffuse' finish should
still show shadowing when a normal statement is used, regardless of a finish
statement even existing or not.

Only way it wouldn't, that I can think of, is if scale is messing with the
normal. Or bump_size itself is affected in a bad way somehow.

Beyond that, I'm back to wondering about the program. I checked versions 3.7.0
and 3.7.1.rc1 and image_map doesn't remove a surface normal in my testing for
that. All okay here, anyhow.

Here we are approaching 60 messages in this thread, must be an answer to the
mystery... thing is, no one else has had the same thing happen yet, except for
finding trouble with low contrast, dark image/bump maps.

And now the green balloon render lacking bumpiness only makes the mystery more
so one.

Never give up hope, but this is a tricky thing for whatever reason.

Bob

Post a reply to this message

On 26-7-2017 17:42, Sven Littkowski wrote:
> On 26.07.2017 07:28, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 26-7-2017 13:20, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> On 26-7-2017 2:01, Sven Littkowski wrote:
>>>> Latest Scene Code, Latest Bump, Latest Result
>>>> (still no bumps)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I didn't change anything to your code and used the bump map provided,
>>> and this is what I get: bumps *are* visible!
>>>
>>
>> Not entirely true ;-)
>>
>> I added:
>>
>> global_settings {
>>    assumed_gamma 1.0
>> }
>>
>> which was demanded by your kolors.inc (and for obvious reasons when
>> using version 3.7) and I provided a uniform red colour texture for the
>> balloon (as an image_map).
>>
> I am not understanding this. I added the assumed gamma (but kept the
> texture as it is), and still nothing of the bump shows! I really want to
> use an images as texture. Please try my scene with the assumed gama, and
> post the resulting image.
> 
> I am attaching the scene code, the bump image, and the resulting scene
> image.
> 

Well, I don't know what goes wrong with your render, but my render of 
your code is ok.

Please note that assumed_gamma should be declared /before/ the 
kolors.inc include or you while get an error message. Also note that you 
have declared assumed_gamma twice inside the global_settings. However, 
that is not the problem.

-- 
Thomas

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Attachments:
Download 'sl_balloon2.png' (88 KB)

Preview of image 'sl_balloon2.png'

On 7/27/2017 7:30 AM, omniverse wrote:
> Here we are approaching 60 messages in this thread, must be an answer to the
> mystery... thing is, no one else has had the same thing happen yet, except for
> finding trouble with low contrast, dark image/bump maps.

Do you think that it is possible that there is a mix up with duplicate 
image files being referenced?
Or finding the wrong file in a long Library_Path?

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 7/27/2017 7:30 AM, omniverse wrote:
> > Here we are approaching 60 messages in this thread, must be an answer to the
> > mystery... thing is, no one else has had the same thing happen yet, except for
> > finding trouble with low contrast, dark image/bump maps.
>
> Do you think that it is possible that there is a mix up with duplicate
> image files being referenced?
> Or finding the wrong file in a long Library_Path?

Not very likely I suppose.
Just checked using image and bump files located in a parent-sub-sub folder on a
another partition and was okay with forward slashes and backslashes, even though
the latter causes P-R to spit out error messages.

Oh, and this must be message number 60.  ;)

Await hearing which POV-Ray version, or if custom compiled. I could have missed
that info so maybe I will scan over this thread again in the meantime.

Bob

Post a reply to this message

Am 27.07.2017 um 05:24 schrieb Sven Littkowski:

>> At the moment, all seems to point at the pigment definition as the
>> culprit, as that's the only relevant thing we've always changed. You
>> should at least /try/ it with a plain pigment, to either confirm or
>> refute this theory.
>>
>> If you can confirm it, we know that's what we have to examine further;
>> in that case you'll probably want to post the image map at last, so that
>> we can see what might be so special about it.
>>
>> Otherwise we can be sure that it's a red herring, and that we have to
>> dig someplace else.
>>
> Nope. Here's a one-color pigment. :-(

Okay, now this leaves surprisingly few possible explanations. I can only
come up with the following:

- You might be using a rare and buggy version of POV-Ray.

To check this, I recommend you post the exact POV-Ray version number
(and let us know which operating system you're using).

- You might be using a different scene file and/or bump map image file
than those you posted.

- There might be a relevant line break introduced in your post of the
scene file that we've been overlooking.

To check these two, I recommend you temporarily rename your scene and
auxiliary files (image file and bump map), then try to re-create the
scene from your own postings and render it. You'll get parse errors,
make sure to fix only those actually reported.

- You might be using low-quality settings (`+q7` or lower).

To check this, I recommend you post the message output of the render,
and/or run the render with `+giFOO.INI` and post the generated FOO.INI here.

Post a reply to this message

On 7/27/2017 8:41 AM, omniverse wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>> On 7/27/2017 7:30 AM, omniverse wrote:
>>> Here we are approaching 60 messages in this thread, must be an answer to the
>>> mystery... thing is, no one else has had the same thing happen yet, except for
>>> finding trouble with low contrast, dark image/bump maps.
>>
>> Do you think that it is possible that there is a mix up with duplicate
>> image files being referenced?
>> Or finding the wrong file in a long Library_Path?
>
> Not very likely I suppose.

It has happened to me on occasion.

> Just checked using image and bump files located in a parent-sub-sub folder on a
> another partition and was okay with forward slashes and backslashes, even though
> the latter causes P-R to spit out error messages.
>
> Oh, and this must be message number 60.  ;)

A long way off the record.
642 at the last count, in OT.

http://news.povray.org/povray.off-topic/thread/%3C5797bc1b%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=416746&toff=50


>
> Await hearing which POV-Ray version, or if custom compiled. I could have missed
> that info so maybe I will scan over this thread again in the meantime.
>

Has anyone collect Sven's code? I don't fancy going through the thread 
to piece it all together. And I've not been following it closely.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 27-7-2017 11:34, Stephen wrote:

> Has anyone collect Sven's code? I don't fancy going through the thread 
> to piece it all together. And I've not been following it closely.
> 

This is the latest, with my amendments. See also the attached images I used.



-- 
Thomas

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Attachments:
Download 'balloon bumpmap.png' (201 KB) Download 'balloon texture.png' (3 KB) Download 'sl_balloon2.pov.txt' (8 KB)

Preview of image 'balloon bumpmap.png'

Preview of image 'balloon texture.png'

"omniverse" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote:
> Sven Littkowski <I### [at] SvenLittkowskiname> wrote:
> > On 26.07.2017 12:37, Bald Eagle wrote:

> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Q3orQhEcA
> > >
> > > Maybe Sven needs to add some light sources to the scene...   :D
> > >
> > But I have a light source there. You mean, I should add more light sources?
>
> ":D" big grin face, so I'm sure Bald Eagle was jesting, at least mostly I'm
> guessing.

The light sources I was suggesting were the lights at the bottom of the balloon
- in the video.  Because spaceships only ever visit Earthlings at night in
isolated, unpopulated areas.
And it makes for dramatic lighting.

I think that for clarity and accuracy, it might be advisable to package all of
the files into a ZIP and post it in a binary thread so that everybody has all of
the same pieces to analyze.  Unzip to a subdirectory, and then there shouldn't
be any question of what files are being used to generate the render.

Post a reply to this message

On 7/27/2017 12:19 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 27-7-2017 11:34, Stephen wrote:
>
>> Has anyone collect Sven's code? I don't fancy going through the thread
>> to piece it all together. And I've not been following it closely.
>>
>
> This is the latest, with my amendments. See also the attached images I
> used.
>
>
>
Thanks Thomas.
The results were as expected. The shadows showing.

But is this expected? It is the top of the balloon.
[Drat! I can't put them inline.]

Using Sven's original code. I imported it into Bishop3D correcting the 
errors one by one. Using the image maps you supplied. The second image 
is directly from Sven's code.


What concerns me is:
   image_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher
- Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon Texture.png" }

Are those spaces and dashes part of the file name?




-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Attachments:
Download 'import02_0000.png' (184 KB) Download 'import03_00000.png' (137 KB)

Preview of image 'import02_0000.png'

Preview of image 'import03_00000.png'

On 7/27/2017 12:47 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> The light sources I was suggesting were the lights at the bottom of the balloon
> - in the video.  Because spaceships only ever visit Earthlings at night in
> isolated, unpopulated areas.
> And it makes for dramatic lighting.

How very true. :)

Did I ever tell you about the time I stopped off in Roswell for lunch? I 
regretted it, I can tell you.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 27-7-2017 14:16, Stephen wrote:
> On 7/27/2017 12:19 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 27-7-2017 11:34, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone collect Sven's code? I don't fancy going through the thread
>>> to piece it all together. And I've not been following it closely.
>>>
>>
>> This is the latest, with my amendments. See also the attached images I
>> used.
>>
>>
>>
> Thanks Thomas.
> The results were as expected. The shadows showing.
> 
> But is this expected? It is the top of the balloon.
> [Drat! I can't put them inline.]

Well, the bump_map is polar-oriented, so I expect the creases to show up 
on the sides too while the top is fairly smooth (according to the map).

> 
> Using Sven's original code. I imported it into Bishop3D correcting the 
> errors one by one. Using the image maps you supplied. The second image 
> is directly from Sven's code.
> 
> 
> What concerns me is:
>    image_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher
> - Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon Texture.png" }
> 
> Are those spaces and dashes part of the file name?
> 

A question for Sven, but I think they are.


-- 
Thomas

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On 7/28/2017 7:45 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 27-7-2017 14:16, Stephen wrote:
>> On 7/27/2017 12:19 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> On 27-7-2017 11:34, Stephen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone collect Sven's code? I don't fancy going through the thread
>>>> to piece it all together. And I've not been following it closely.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is the latest, with my amendments. See also the attached images I
>>> used.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks Thomas.
>> The results were as expected. The shadows showing.
>>
>> But is this expected? It is the top of the balloon.
>> [Drat! I can't put them inline.]
>
> Well, the bump_map is polar-oriented, so I expect the creases to show up
> on the sides too while the top is fairly smooth (according to the map).
>


Sorry, I meant the cap on the top that was missed in the difference.


>>
>> Using Sven's original code. I imported it into Bishop3D correcting the
>> errors one by one. Using the image maps you supplied. The second image
>> is directly from Sven's code.
>>
>>
>> What concerns me is:
>>    image_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher
>> - Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon Texture.png" }
>>
>> Are those spaces and dashes part of the file name?
>>
>
> A question for Sven, but I think they are.
>
>

Indeed it is. Although they look suspiciously, a bit like file paths to me.

Like everyone else, I see no reason for it not to work on Sven's machine.



-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 27.07.2017 03:10, Stephen wrote:
> On 7/27/2017 7:30 AM, omniverse wrote:
>> Here we are approaching 60 messages in this thread, must be an answer
>> to the
>> mystery... thing is, no one else has had the same thing happen yet,
>> except for
>> finding trouble with low contrast, dark image/bump maps.
> 
> Do you think that it is possible that there is a mix up with duplicate
> image files being referenced?
> Or finding the wrong file in a long Library_Path?
> 
Not sure, but I would tend to say NO. I have only that one bump image.   :-
(

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On 27.07.2017 03:41, omniverse wrote:
> Await hearing which POV-Ray version, or if custom compiled. I could have 
missed
> that info so maybe I will scan over this thread again in the meantime.

POV-Ray v3.7.0.msvc10.win64

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On 27.07.2017 05:34, Stephen wrote:
> Has anyone collect Sven's code? I don't fancy going through the thread
> to piece it all together. And I've not been following it closely.

#version 3.7;

#include "kolors.inc"
#include "finish.inc"
#include "textures.inc"

#declare MyRadiosity = off;
//#declare MyBackground = "SL_Space_Scene_003"; // Wormhole /
SL_Space_Scene_003 /

global_settings
{
 #if(MyRadiosity)
  radiosity
  {
   media on
   pretrace_start 0.08
   pretrace_end   0.001
   count 400
   error_bound 0.75
   recursion_limit 1
   normal on
  }
 #end
 assumed_gamma 1.0
 subsurface        {}
 adc_bailout       0.0039
 ambient_light     rgb < 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 >
 assumed_gamma     1.000
 irid_wavelength   rgb < 0.250, 0.180, 0.140 >
 max_trace_level   5
 number_of_waves   10
 noise_generator   3
 charset           ascii
}

#declare LightDiameter =     10000.0;
#declare LightDistanceX =  -500000.0; // X = Left - Right
#declare LightDistanceY =  1000000.0; // Y = Up - Down
#declare LightDistanceZ =  -100000.0; // Z = Front - Back
#declare LightRotate =          36.0;
#declare MyLight =             0.125;

camera
{
 location < -000.0, 400.0, -500.0 >
 look_at < 0.0, -200.0, 0.0 >
 right 1.77*x
}

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------


light_source
{
 < 2500.0, 2500.0, 500.0 > //< 2500.0, 2500.0, 5000.0 >
 rgb < 0.72265625, 0.8046875, 0.80859375 > *1.5 // bright!?
 area_light x*100,z*100,5,5 circular orient
 area_illumination
}
/*
light_source
{
 < -50.0, 50.0, 0.0 >
 rgb < 0.3, 0.4, 0.8 > *1.1
}
*/
/*
#declare MyLight = light_source
{
 < -1000.0, 1000.0, 1000.0 >
 rgb < 0.72265625, 0.8046875, 0.80859375 > *0.25
// spotlight
// point_at < 0.0, 25.0, 100.0 >
// falloff 100.0
// radius 10.0
// fade_distance 50.0
// fade_power 4
}

union
{
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 036.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 072.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 108.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 144.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 216.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 252.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 288.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 324.0, 0.0 > }
 translate < -1000.0, 0000.0, -1000.0 >
}
*/

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

#declare MyRadius = 200.0;

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

#declare PositiveBump = normal
{
 bump_map
 {
  png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher - Balloon -
Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon BumpMap.png"
 }
 translate -0.5
 rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
 scale MyRadius*2
 bump_size 0.02
}

#declare NegativeBump = normal
{
 bump_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher -
Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon BumpMap.png" map_type 0
interpolate 2 }
 translate -0.5
 rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
 scale -MyRadius*2
 bump_size 0.04
}

#declare MyOuterBalloonFinish = finish
{
 brilliance   1.50
 phong albedo 0.05
 metallic     0.00
 ambient      0.00
 emission     0.00
 reflection   0.50
 crand        0.10
}

#declare MyInnerBalloonFinish = finish
{
 brilliance   1.50
 phong albedo 0.05
 metallic     0.00
 ambient      0.00
 emission     0.00
 reflection   0.50
}

#declare MyOuterBalloonTexture = texture
{
 pigment
 {
  image_map
  {
   png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher - Balloon -
Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon Texture.png"
   gamma 1
   map_type 0
   interpolate 2
   once
  }
  translate -0.5
  rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
  scale MyRadius*2
 }
 normal
 {
  gradient y
  normal_map
  {
   [ 0.175 PositiveBump ]
   [ 0.175 NegativeBump ]
  }
  scale < 1.0, 1.5*MyRadius, 1.0 >
 }
// finish { MyOuterBalloonFinish }
}

#declare MyInnerBalloonTexture = texture
{
 pigment { color rgb < 0.7686275,  0.7607843,  0.7333333 > }
 normal
 {
  gradient y
  normal_map
  {
   [ 0.175 PositiveBump ]
   [ 0.175 NegativeBump ]
  }
  scale <1,1.5*MyRadius,1>
 }
 finish { MyInnerBalloonFinish }
}

//
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

#declare UpperBalloonShape = torus     // Balloon Radius: 175 m /
Launcher Radius: 10 m
{
 95.0, 105.0
 scale < 1.0, 0.5, 1.0 >
}

#declare LowerBalloonShape = difference
{
 sphere { < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > MyRadius }
 cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > < 0.0, 175.001, 0.0 > MyRadius+0.001 }
 scale < 1.0, 1.5, 1.0 >
}

#declare MyBalloonHullOutside = union
{
 object { UpperBalloonShape }
 object { LowerBalloonShape }
 texture { MyOuterBalloonTexture }
}

#declare MyBalloonHull = difference
{
 object { MyBalloonHullOutside hollow }
 cylinder  // Launcher Openings
 {
  < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+0.001), 0.0 > < 0.0, (MyRadius+0.001), 0.0 > 3.5
  texture { MyInnerBalloonTexture }
 }
}

#declare Launcher = difference
{
 union
 {
  #declare MyLength = 10.0;
  #declare MyHeight = 0.0;
  #declare MyTop = 35.0;
  cylinder { < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+30.0), 0.0 > < 0.0, MyTop, 0.0 >
3.5 }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 045.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 090.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 135.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 225.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 270.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 315.0, 0.0 > }
 }
 cylinder { < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+30.001), 0.0 > < 0.0, MyTop+0.001,
0.0 > 3.3 }
 pigment { color rgb 1.0 }
}

#declare DoublePositionLight = union
{
 union
 {
  cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0,  2.5 > < 10.0, 0.0,  2.5 > 0.20 }
  cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0, -2.5 > < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 > 0.20 }
  pigment { color rgb < 0.05, 0.05, 0.05 > }
  finish { MyOuterBalloonFinish }
 }
 union
 {
  sphere { < 10.0, 0.0, 2.5 > 0.35 }
  sphere { < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 > 0.35 }
  pigment { color rgbf < 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.5 > }
  finish { ambient rgb < 0.3, 0.1, 0.1 > }
 }
 union
 {
  light_source
  {
   < 10.0, 0.0, 2.5 >
   rgb < 0.7, 0.0, 0.0 > *10.0
   fade_distance 50.0
   fade_power 4
  }
  light_source
  {
   < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 >
   rgb < 0.7, 0.0, 0.0 > *1.0
   fade_distance 50.0
   fade_power 4
  }
 }
}

#declare PositionLights = union
{
 #declare MyDistance = MyRadius-0.1;
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 045.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 090.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 135.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 225.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 270.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 315.0, 0.0 > }
}

union
{
 object { MyBalloonHull }
 object { Launcher }
 object { PositionLights }
}

background { rgb < 0.02392157,  0.03490196,  0.04627451 > }



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Attachments:
Download 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings.png' (103 KB) Download 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings - balloon bumpmap.png' (201 KB)

Preview of image 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings.png'

Preview of image 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings - balloon bumpmap.png'

On 27.07.2017 08:16, Stephen wrote:
> On 7/27/2017 12:19 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 27-7-2017 11:34, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone collect Sven's code? I don't fancy going through the thread
>>> to piece it all together. And I've not been following it closely.
>>>
>>
>> This is the latest, with my amendments. See also the attached images I
>> used.
>>
>>
>>
> Thanks Thomas.
> The results were as expected. The shadows showing.
> 
> But is this expected? It is the top of the balloon.
> [Drat! I can't put them inline.]
> 
> Using Sven's original code. I imported it into Bishop3D correcting the
> errors one by one. Using the image maps you supplied. The second image
> is directly from Sven's code.
> 
> 
> What concerns me is:
>   image_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher
> - Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon Texture.png" }
> 
> Are those spaces and dashes part of the file name?
> 
> 
> 
> 
Yes, they are part of the file names. But they cause no error message,
as POV-Ray gives them straight to the Windows system, and Windows is
handling the file management.

Please use my balloon texture for the outside, and let us know, if you
still get bumps.


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Preview of image 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings - balloon texture.png'

On 28.07.2017 02:45, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 27-7-2017 14:16, Stephen wrote:
>> On 7/27/2017 12:19 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> On 27-7-2017 11:34, Stephen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone collect Sven's code? I don't fancy going through the thread

>>>> to piece it all together. And I've not been following it closely.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is the latest, with my amendments. See also the attached images I
>>> used.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks Thomas.
>> The results were as expected. The shadows showing.
>>
>> But is this expected? It is the top of the balloon.
>> [Drat! I can't put them inline.]
> 
> Well, the bump_map is polar-oriented, so I expect the creases to show up
> on the sides too while the top is fairly smooth (according to the map).
> 
>>
>> Using Sven's original code. I imported it into Bishop3D correcting the
>> errors one by one. Using the image maps you supplied. The second image
>> is directly from Sven's code.
>>
>>
>> What concerns me is:
>>    image_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher

>> - Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon Texture.png" }
>>
>> Are those spaces and dashes part of the file name?
>>
> 
> A question for Sven, but I think they are.
> 
> 
Yes, they are. No cause of any error, as Windows handles the file
management.

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On 27.07.2017 05:14, clipka wrote:
> Am 27.07.2017 um 05:24 schrieb Sven Littkowski:
> 
>>> At the moment, all seems to point at the pigment definition as the
>>> culprit, as that's the only relevant thing we've always changed. You
>>> should at least /try/ it with a plain pigment, to either confirm or
>>> refute this theory.
>>>
>>> If you can confirm it, we know that's what we have to examine further;
>>> in that case you'll probably want to post the image map at last, so tha
t
>>> we can see what might be so special about it.
>>>
>>> Otherwise we can be sure that it's a red herring, and that we have to
>>> dig someplace else.
>>>
>> Nope. Here's a one-color pigment. :-(
> 
> Okay, now this leaves surprisingly few possible explanations. I can only
> come up with the following:
> 
> - You might be using a rare and buggy version of POV-Ray.
> 
> To check this, I recommend you post the exact POV-Ray version number
> (and let us know which operating system you're using).
> 
> - You might be using a different scene file and/or bump map image file
> than those you posted.
> 
> - There might be a relevant line break introduced in your post of the
> scene file that we've been overlooking.
> 
> To check these two, I recommend you temporarily rename your scene and
> auxiliary files (image file and bump map), then try to re-create the
> scene from your own postings and render it. You'll get parse errors,
> make sure to fix only those actually reported.
> 
> - You might be using low-quality settings (`+q7` or lower).
> 
> To check this, I recommend you post the message output of the render,
> and/or run the render with `+giFOO.INI` and post the generated FOO.INI he
re.
> 
Clipka, you shot the bird!

Okay, everyone: I herewith declare myself as a big fool!
I use POV-Ray for soooo many years, since around 1990 or so, and can you
believe it I just oversaw all the time of posting here, that I used:
QUALITY = 6
And did not even think about checking for the Q setting!!!!!
SHAME ON ME! I wasted so much of your all valuable time! But at least,
one more time the POV-Ray community has proven its great pioneer-alike
spirit! I owe you all my big thanks!

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On 27.07.2017 05:14, clipka wrote:
> Am 27.07.2017 um 05:24 schrieb Sven Littkowski:
> 
>>> At the moment, all seems to point at the pigment definition as the
>>> culprit, as that's the only relevant thing we've always changed. You
>>> should at least /try/ it with a plain pigment, to either confirm or
>>> refute this theory.
>>>
>>> If you can confirm it, we know that's what we have to examine further;
>>> in that case you'll probably want to post the image map at last, so tha
t
>>> we can see what might be so special about it.
>>>
>>> Otherwise we can be sure that it's a red herring, and that we have to
>>> dig someplace else.
>>>
>> Nope. Here's a one-color pigment. :-(
> 
> Okay, now this leaves surprisingly few possible explanations. I can only
> come up with the following:
> 
> - You might be using a rare and buggy version of POV-Ray.
> 
> To check this, I recommend you post the exact POV-Ray version number
> (and let us know which operating system you're using).
> 
> - You might be using a different scene file and/or bump map image file
> than those you posted.
> 
> - There might be a relevant line break introduced in your post of the
> scene file that we've been overlooking.
> 
> To check these two, I recommend you temporarily rename your scene and
> auxiliary files (image file and bump map), then try to re-create the
> scene from your own postings and render it. You'll get parse errors,
> make sure to fix only those actually reported.
> 
> - You might be using low-quality settings (`+q7` or lower).
> 
> To check this, I recommend you post the message output of the render,
> and/or run the render with `+giFOO.INI` and post the generated FOO.INI he
re.
> 



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Clipka, you shot the bird!

Okay, everyone: I herewith declare myself as a big fool!
I use POV-Ray for soooo many years, since around 1990 or so, and can you
believe it I just oversaw all the time of posting here, that I used:
QUALITY = 6
And did not even think about checking for the Q setting!!!!!
SHAME ON ME! I wasted so much of your all valuable time! But at least,
one more time the POV-Ray community has proven its great pioneer-alike
spirit! I owe you all my big thanks!


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Sven Littkowski <I### [at] SvenLittkowskiname> wrote:
>
> Okay, everyone: I herewith declare myself as a big fool!
> I use POV-Ray for soooo many years, since around 1990 or so, and can you
> believe it I just oversaw all the time of posting here, that I used:
> QUALITY = 6
> And did not even think about checking for the Q setting!!!!!
> SHAME ON ME! I wasted so much of your all valuable time! But at least,
> one more time the POV-Ray community has proven its great pioneer-alike
> spirit! I owe you all my big thanks!

That explains it.
You have been raytracing too long when... quality settings are forgotten!
LOL
I am glad that problem is solved, regardless of why!
:)

I was just about to email you back to say it looks okay again.
Although before I rendered the balloon, seeing that very dark texture image_map
for it, I was thinking it must be too dark to show the normal_map. Yet it isn't,
mine looks the same as your quality change render now.

Bob

P.S.  Still don't know if you want that parachute piece hovering over the
balloon (makes the little shadow on left top edge).
I keep removing it by using:

#declare LowerBalloonShape = difference
{
 sphere { < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > MyRadius }
 cylinder {
  < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > < 0.0, /*175.001*/MyRadius+0.001, 0.0 >
   MyRadius+0.001 }
 scale < 1.0, 1.5, 1.0 >
}

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Le 17-07-28 à 19:17, Sven Littkowski a écrit :
> On 27.07.2017 08:16, Stephen wrote:
>> On 7/27/2017 12:19 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> On 27-7-2017 11:34, Stephen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone collect Sven's code? I don't fancy going through the thread
>>>> to piece it all together. And I've not been following it closely.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is the latest, with my amendments. See also the attached images I
>>> used.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks Thomas.
>> The results were as expected. The shadows showing.
>>
>> But is this expected? It is the top of the balloon.
>> [Drat! I can't put them inline.]
>>
>> Using Sven's original code. I imported it into Bishop3D correcting the
>> errors one by one. Using the image maps you supplied. The second image
>> is directly from Sven's code.
>>
>>
>> What concerns me is:
>>    image_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher
>> - Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon Texture.png" }
>>
>> Are those spaces and dashes part of the file name?
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Yes, they are part of the file names. But they cause no error message,
> as POV-Ray gives them straight to the Windows system, and Windows is
> handling the file management.
> 
> Please use my balloon texture for the outside, and let us know, if you
> still get bumps.
> 
> 
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> 
Well, that image is all pure black... So, unless it have reflection of 
high specularity, the bumps will have a practically impossible task 
showing up.

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On 28.07.2017 21:14, omniverse wrote:
> Sven Littkowski <I### [at] SvenLittkowskiname> wrote:
>>
>> Okay, everyone: I herewith declare myself as a big fool!
>> I use POV-Ray for soooo many years, since around 1990 or so, and can you
>> believe it I just oversaw all the time of posting here, that I used:
>> QUALITY = 6
>> And did not even think about checking for the Q setting!!!!!
>> SHAME ON ME! I wasted so much of your all valuable time! But at least,
>> one more time the POV-Ray community has proven its great pioneer-alike
>> spirit! I owe you all my big thanks!
> 
> That explains it.
> You have been raytracing too long when... quality settings are forgotten!
> LOL
> I am glad that problem is solved, regardless of why!
> :)
> 
> I was just about to email you back to say it looks okay again.
> Although before I rendered the balloon, seeing that very dark texture image_map
> for it, I was thinking it must be too dark to show the normal_map. Yet it isn't,
> mine looks the same as your quality change render now.
> 
> Bob
> 
> P.S.  Still don't know if you want that parachute piece hovering over the
> balloon (makes the little shadow on left top edge).
> I keep removing it by using:
> 
> #declare LowerBalloonShape = difference
> {
>  sphere { < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > MyRadius }
>  cylinder {
>   < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > < 0.0, /*175.001*/MyRadius+0.001, 0.0 >
>    MyRadius+0.001 }
>  scale < 1.0, 1.5, 1.0 >
> }
> 
> 
Really, I am sooo ashamed. :-D

Thanks for reminding me about that parachute. I didn't see it yet, but I
will give now more distance with the camera to see it.

YES - that parachute gotta go! I use now your suggested code that I
should have added long time ago. I simply forgot that area, when i a
longer time ago changed the diameter from 175 to 200.

Starting to think now about the best outside surface attributes
(finishes). Don't know, how the surface attributes of a balloon are, I
admit. it is not one of those ultra-thin surfaces, because of the huge
size of the balloon. The surface material would be more similar to that
of a zeppelin, I think, as more stability is required. After all, we
speak about a total diameter of 400 meters! :-)

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On 29-7-2017 1:17, Sven Littkowski wrote:
> Please use my balloon texture for the outside, and let us know, if you
> still get bumps.
> 
Has /this/ image been your balloon texture all along? Then, I am /not/ 
surprised that you do not see any bumps: the image is completely black! ;-)


Thomas

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On 29.07.2017 03:02, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 29-7-2017 1:17, Sven Littkowski wrote:
>> Please use my balloon texture for the outside, and let us know, if you
>> still get bumps.
>>
> Has /this/ image been your balloon texture all along? Then, I am /not/
> surprised that you do not see any bumps: the image is completely black! ;
-)
> 
> 
> Thomas
Hi, the problem was been solved already, but big thanks anyhow.
We found what was wrong, in fact it was a seldomly stupid error: I
forgot to change the QUALITY from 6 to a better level (using 10 now).   :-)


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The devil is in the detail :-)

-- 
Thomas

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On 7/29/2017 12:12 AM, Sven Littkowski wrote:
> On 27.07.2017 05:34, Stephen wrote:
>> >Has anyone collect Sven's code? I don't fancy going through the thread
>> >to piece it all together. And I've not been following it closely.
> #version 3.7;
>
> #include "kolors.inc"

Thanks but since you found the problem it is not needed now. :-)
Don't be embarrassed about the quality setting. These things happen.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Kenneth, here is the texture file, latest version.


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Download 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings - balloon texture.png' (1217 KB)

Preview of image 'space - launcher - balloon - type 001 - moon runnings - balloon texture.png'

Sven Littkowski <I### [at] SvenLittkowskiname> wrote:
> Kenneth, here is the texture file, latest version.
>
Unfortunately, what I'm seeing is *almost* a completely black image, and with a
*completely* white alpha-channel. I checked it out in Photoshop.

I made some screen shots of what I'm seeing, and will post them in the IMAGES
section...

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On 7/30/2017 11:58 AM, Kenneth wrote:
> Sven Littkowski <I### [at] SvenLittkowskiname> wrote:
>> Kenneth, here is the texture file, latest version.
>>
> Unfortunately, what I'm seeing is *almost* a completely black image, and with a
> *completely* white alpha-channel. I checked it out in Photoshop.
>
> I made some screen shots of what I'm seeing, and will post them in the IMAGES
> section...
>
>
This is the images section, Kenneth. ;)

This is what I get after using "Edge Enhance" 8 times.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Attachments:
Download 'image3.png' (3663 KB)

Preview of image 'image3.png'

On 30-7-2017 11:51, Sven Littkowski wrote:
> Kenneth, here is the texture file, latest version.
> 

This image is way too dark! I used IC to clear it up by tone mapping 
(Exponent 1 changed to 3)

btw, IC is: http://www.lilysoft.org/IC/ic_index.htm which is a perfect 
little program I can recommend. No need for sophisticated programs when 
doing simple image corrections.

-- 
Thomas

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On 30-7-2017 13:28, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 30-7-2017 11:51, Sven Littkowski wrote:
>> Kenneth, here is the texture file, latest version.
>>
> 
> This image is way too dark! I used IC to clear it up by tone mapping 
> (Exponent 1 changed to 3)
> 
> btw, IC is: http://www.lilysoft.org/IC/ic_index.htm which is a perfect 
> little program I can recommend. No need for sophisticated programs when 
> doing simple image corrections.
> 

Sorry, I didn't post the resulting image. Here it is.

-- 
Thomas

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Attachments:
Download 'balloon texture-1.jpg' (842 KB)

Preview of image 'balloon texture-1.jpg'

On 7/30/2017 12:28 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 30-7-2017 11:51, Sven Littkowski wrote:
>> Kenneth, here is the texture file, latest version.
>>
>
> This image is way too dark! I used IC to clear it up by tone mapping
> (Exponent 1 changed to 3)
>
> btw, IC is: http://www.lilysoft.org/IC/ic_index.htm which is a perfect
> little program I can recommend. No need for sophisticated programs when
> doing simple image corrections.
>

IC is a good image editor. Written by Ive, if I remember correctly.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Sven Littkowski <I### [at] SvenLittkowskiname> wrote:

> Okay, everyone: I herewith declare myself as a big fool!
> I use POV-Ray for soooo many years, since around 1990 or so, and can you
> believe it I just oversaw all the time of posting here, that I used:
> QUALITY = 6
> And did not even think about checking for the Q setting!!!!!
> SHAME ON ME! I wasted so much of your all valuable time! But at least,
> one more time the POV-Ray community has proven its great pioneer-alike
> spirit! I owe you all my big thanks!

I've had a hard time "debugging" a scene in the past, when I did the same thing.
I'd really like to see some mechanism - image file metadata or something else,
for tagging an image with certain critical data - it would help keep a handle on
things like this.

Maybe we just need a tiny little FAQ/checklist for debugging scenes - not
because I'm Captain Obvious - but because sometimes we read-through errors,
overlook things, or just plain old forget to check the very simplest of things.
Did you place the object IN the scene after #declaring it?
Do you have a light source?
A camera?

I play with "advanced" scenes all the time, but I still find myself from time to
time struggling with the very simplest of all elements of the SDL file and
command syntax.   A reminder checklist is always helpful and always there,
whether anyone is online or not.

Glad to see you found your mistake, Sven.  I hope you develop this into a very
nice scene   :)

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On 31.07.2017 07:58, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Sven Littkowski <I### [at] SvenLittkowskiname> wrote:
> 
>> Okay, everyone: I herewith declare myself as a big fool!
>> I use POV-Ray for soooo many years, since around 1990 or so, and can you

>> believe it I just oversaw all the time of posting here, that I used:
>> QUALITY = 6
>> And did not even think about checking for the Q setting!!!!!
>> SHAME ON ME! I wasted so much of your all valuable time! But at least,
>> one more time the POV-Ray community has proven its great pioneer-alike
>> spirit! I owe you all my big thanks!
> 
> I've had a hard time "debugging" a scene in the past, when I did the same
 thing.
> I'd really like to see some mechanism - image file metadata or something 
else,
> for tagging an image with certain critical data - it would help keep a ha
ndle on
> things like this.
> 
> Maybe we just need a tiny little FAQ/checklist for debugging scenes - not

> because I'm Captain Obvious - but because sometimes we read-through error
s,
> overlook things, or just plain old forget to check the very simplest of t
hings.
> Did you place the object IN the scene after #declaring it?
> Do you have a light source?
> A camera?
> 
> I play with "advanced" scenes all the time, but I still find myself from 
time to
> time struggling with the very simplest of all elements of the SDL file an
d
> command syntax.   A reminder checklist is always helpful and always there
,
> whether anyone is online or not.
> 
> Glad to see you found your mistake, Sven.  I hope you develop this into a
 very
> nice scene   :)
> 
I hope so, too. Will try. Will become an animation, too. Hopefully.

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