On 6/19/2016 8:27 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>> Quite a disturbing image.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quite!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well, that was the intention of course.
>>
>

All it needs is "Astonishing Stories" written large across the top. :)

It is very atmospheric.


> Fortunately, I didn't go as far as Caravaggio: Judith beheading
> Holofernes ;-)
>

Well, if you think you could? ;)

I don't think that I could spend hours setting up such a gory scene. It 
is bad enough posing nudes. I always worry that someone will see me and 
get the wrong idea.
The beheading would get them running for the police.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 19-6-2016 10:32, Stephen wrote:
> On 6/19/2016 8:27 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>>> Quite a disturbing image.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Quite!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, that was the intention of course.
>>>
>>
>
> All it needs is "Astonishing Stories" written large across the top. :)
>
> It is very atmospheric.

The scene needed something desolate and irreversible; the logical end 
point of a fateful process where no winners can be declared.

>
>
>> Fortunately, I didn't go as far as Caravaggio: Judith beheading
>> Holofernes ;-)
>>
>
> Well, if you think you could? ;)

No, not really indeed. I could not work weeks on end on such a topic.

>
> I don't think that I could spend hours setting up such a gory scene. It
> is bad enough posing nudes. I always worry that someone will see me and
> get the wrong idea.

I do not have too many problems with that although I think it is 
difficult to get nudity right and in a meaningful way for a scene. The 
pitfalls are too obvious.

> The beheading would get them running for the police.
>

Indeed.

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 6/19/2016 12:28 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 19-6-2016 10:32, Stephen wrote:
>> On 6/19/2016 8:27 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>>>> Quite a disturbing image.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Quite!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, that was the intention of course.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> All it needs is "Astonishing Stories" written large across the top. :)
>>
>> It is very atmospheric.
>
> The scene needed something desolate and irreversible; the logical end
> point of a fateful process where no winners can be declared.
>

Ah well! Worse things happen at sea. :)


>
> No, not really indeed. I could not work weeks on end on such a topic.
>


Desolation is best left to the young. They have a knack for it.


>>
>> I don't think that I could spend hours setting up such a gory scene. It
>> is bad enough posing nudes. I always worry that someone will see me and
>> get the wrong idea.
>
> I do not have too many problems with that

Maybe I protesteth too much.


> although I think it is
> difficult to get nudity right and in a meaningful way for a scene. The
> pitfalls are too obvious.
>

Clothes cover up a multitude of sins.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 19-6-2016 17:06, Stephen wrote:
> On 6/19/2016 12:28 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 19-6-2016 10:32, Stephen wrote:
>>> On 6/19/2016 8:27 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>>>>> Quite a disturbing image.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quite!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, that was the intention of course.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> All it needs is "Astonishing Stories" written large across the top. :)

In fact, my initial plan was for an Astonishing Stories pastiche cover, 
but it was not interesting enough in the end.

>>>
>>> It is very atmospheric.
>>
>> The scene needed something desolate and irreversible; the logical end
>> point of a fateful process where no winners can be declared.
>>
>
> Ah well! Worse things happen at sea. :)

Yes!

>
>
>>
>> No, not really indeed. I could not work weeks on end on such a topic.
>>
>
>
> Desolation is best left to the young. They have a knack for it.

Don't get me started. Gloomy romanticism and all :-)

>
>
>>>
>>> I don't think that I could spend hours setting up such a gory scene. It
>>> is bad enough posing nudes. I always worry that someone will see me and
>>> get the wrong idea.
>>
>> I do not have too many problems with that
>
> Maybe I protesteth too much.
>
>
>> although I think it is
>> difficult to get nudity right and in a meaningful way for a scene. The
>> pitfalls are too obvious.
>>
>
> Clothes cover up a multitude of sins.

Which, incidentally, can be the sources of interesting images again.


-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 6/20/2016 7:43 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 19-6-2016 17:06, Stephen wrote:

>>>>
>>>> All it needs is "Astonishing Stories" written large across the top. :)
>
> In fact, my initial plan was for an Astonishing Stories pastiche cover,
> but it was not interesting enough in the end.
>

I have been reading a lot of stories from the pulp era, recently. And if 
you did not plagiarise the idea ;) it would have fitted in perfectly. 
Except for the quality. :)
Simak's "A Heritage of Stars" would have been a good one except your 
combination of head and holder is the only one that would not work. ;-)

>>
>> Desolation is best left to the young. They have a knack for it.
>
> Don't get me started. Gloomy romanticism and all :-)
>

The Sorrows of Young Werther?  :-)

I must dig out a copy of Winterreise. In case I need cheering up. :-)



>>
>> Clothes cover up a multitude of sins.
>
> Which, incidentally, can be the sources of interesting images again.
>
>

With a gentle fan blowing.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 20-6-2016 10:34, Stephen wrote:
> On 6/20/2016 7:43 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 19-6-2016 17:06, Stephen wrote:
>
>>>>>
>>>>> All it needs is "Astonishing Stories" written large across the top. :)
>>
>> In fact, my initial plan was for an Astonishing Stories pastiche cover,
>> but it was not interesting enough in the end.
>>
>
> I have been reading a lot of stories from the pulp era, recently. And if
> you did not plagiarise the idea ;) it would have fitted in perfectly.
> Except for the quality. :)

It has been a while since I read any of those, and essentially Doc Smith 
at that, so the initial idea was entirely 'graphic' and the final one 
just happened in my head as a more 'interesting' and darker substitute.

> Simak's "A Heritage of Stars" would have been a good one except your
> combination of head and holder is the only one that would not work. ;-)

That is right. Now that you mention it: "City" by same, only no 
appropriate metal monster there. Jenkins would hardly fit the bill and 
the dogs are lovable (not so the ants).

>
>>>
>>> Desolation is best left to the young. They have a knack for it.
>>
>> Don't get me started. Gloomy romanticism and all :-)
>>
>
> The Sorrows of Young Werther?  :-)
>
> I must dig out a copy of Winterreise. In case I need cheering up. :-)

With the music please! Dieter Fischer-Diskau!

>
>
>
>>>
>>> Clothes cover up a multitude of sins.
>>
>> Which, incidentally, can be the sources of interesting images again.
>>
>>
>
> With a gentle fan blowing.
>

For instance, for instance.


-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 6/20/2016 12:35 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 20-6-2016 10:34, Stephen wrote:

>> I have been reading a lot of stories from the pulp era, recently. And if
>> you did not plagiarise the idea ;) it would have fitted in perfectly.
>> Except for the quality. :)
>
> It has been a while since I read any of those, and essentially Doc Smith
> at that, so the initial idea was entirely 'graphic' and the final one
> just happened in my head as a more 'interesting' and darker substitute.
>

It goes against all the laws. So you had better have a good explanation. :-)

>> Simak's "A Heritage of Stars" would have been a good one except your
>> combination of head and holder is the only one that would not work. ;-)
>
> That is right. Now that you mention it: "City" by same, only no
> appropriate metal monster there. Jenkins would hardly fit the bill and
> the dogs are lovable (not so the ants).
>

Yes all Simak's robots were benevolent.
And well, you've got to give the ants their day in the sun. :)
You also have to respect a race, whose god is. "...a human boot kicking 
over an anthill."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_%28novel%29#The_Coda


>>
>> The Sorrows of Young Werther?  :-)
>>
>> I must dig out a copy of Winterreise. In case I need cheering up. :-)
>
> With the music please! Dieter Fischer-Diskau!
>


I'll cover your "Dieter Fischer-Diskau" and raise you the Dutch musician 
"Pierre Kartner". :-P




-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 21-6-2016 9:44, Stephen wrote:
> On 6/20/2016 12:35 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 20-6-2016 10:34, Stephen wrote:
>
>>> I have been reading a lot of stories from the pulp era, recently. And if
>>> you did not plagiarise the idea ;) it would have fitted in perfectly.
>>> Except for the quality. :)
>>
>> It has been a while since I read any of those, and essentially Doc Smith
>> at that, so the initial idea was entirely 'graphic' and the final one
>> just happened in my head as a more 'interesting' and darker substitute.
>>
>
> It goes against all the laws. So you had better have a good explanation.
> :-)

Laws are to be going against for an old anarchist like me. :-)

>
>>> Simak's "A Heritage of Stars" would have been a good one except your
>>> combination of head and holder is the only one that would not work. ;-)
>>
>> That is right. Now that you mention it: "City" by same, only no
>> appropriate metal monster there. Jenkins would hardly fit the bill and
>> the dogs are lovable (not so the ants).
>>
>
> Yes all Simak's robots were benevolent.
> And well, you've got to give the ants their day in the sun. :)
> You also have to respect a race, whose god is. "...a human boot kicking
> over an anthill."
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_%28novel%29#The_Coda

Yes, that is a marvellous ending of the cycle indeed.

Talking of ants, I am in the middle of a grim human-against-ants 
campaign. Not sure who is going to win at this stage. My forces have had 
to retreat a couple of yards for lack of ammunition, and major 
regrouping - on both sides - is under way.

>
>
>>>
>>> The Sorrows of Young Werther?  :-)
>>>
>>> I must dig out a copy of Winterreise. In case I need cheering up. :-)
>>
>> With the music please! Dieter Fischer-Diskau!
>>
>
>
> I'll cover your "Dieter Fischer-Diskau" and raise you the Dutch musician
> "Pierre Kartner". :-P

Oooh! Gi'me a break! Don't you have anything (ANYTHING!) better than 
THAT?!? %->


-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 21-6-2016 13:32, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 21-6-2016 9:44, Stephen wrote:

>> I'll cover your "Dieter Fischer-Diskau" and raise you the Dutch musician
>> "Pierre Kartner". :-P
>
> Oooh! Gi'me a break! Don't you have anything (ANYTHING!) better than
> THAT?!? %->
>
>

OK. You asked for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FfKLekwi5c

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 6/21/2016 12:41 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 21-6-2016 13:32, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 21-6-2016 9:44, Stephen wrote:
>
>>> I'll cover your "Dieter Fischer-Diskau" and raise you the Dutch musician
>>> "Pierre Kartner". :-P
>>
>> Oooh! Gi'me a break! Don't you have anything (ANYTHING!) better than
>> THAT?!? %->
>>
>>
>
> OK. You asked for it:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FfKLekwi5c
>

A hit, a very palpable hit. ;)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 21-6-2016 9:44, Stephen wrote:
> > On 6/20/2016 12:35 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> >> On 20-6-2016 10:34, Stephen wrote:
> >
> >>> I have been reading a lot of stories from the pulp era, recently. And if
> >>> you did not plagiarise the idea ;) it would have fitted in perfectly.
> >>> Except for the quality. :)
> >>
> >> It has been a while since I read any of those, and essentially Doc Smith
> >> at that, so the initial idea was entirely 'graphic' and the final one
> >> just happened in my head as a more 'interesting' and darker substitute.
> >>
> >
> > It goes against all the laws. So you had better have a good explanation.
> > :-)
>
> Laws are to be going against for an old anarchist like me. :-)
>
> >
> >>> Simak's "A Heritage of Stars" would have been a good one except your
> >>> combination of head and holder is the only one that would not work. ;-)
> >>
> >> That is right. Now that you mention it: "City" by same, only no
> >> appropriate metal monster there. Jenkins would hardly fit the bill and
> >> the dogs are lovable (not so the ants).
> >>
> >
> > Yes all Simak's robots were benevolent.
> > And well, you've got to give the ants their day in the sun. :)
> > You also have to respect a race, whose god is. "...a human boot kicking
> > over an anthill."
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_%28novel%29#The_Coda
>
> Yes, that is a marvellous ending of the cycle indeed.
>
> Talking of ants, I am in the middle of a grim human-against-ants
> campaign. Not sure who is going to win at this stage. My forces have had
> to retreat a couple of yards for lack of ammunition, and major
> regrouping - on both sides - is under way.
>
Assuming you're being literal, I've found a pretty good solution to ant
infestations, if you like oranges.

Grind up the orange peels and scatter them on the ground around the anthill: It
kills off the fungus that the ants feed on.


Regards,
A.D.B.

Post a reply to this message

On 21-6-2016 17:29, Anthony D. Baye wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Talking of ants, I am in the middle of a grim human-against-ants
>> campaign. Not sure who is going to win at this stage. My forces have had
>> to retreat a couple of yards for lack of ammunition, and major
>> regrouping - on both sides - is under way.
>>
> Assuming you're being literal, I've found a pretty good solution to ant
> infestations, if you like oranges.
>
> Grind up the orange peels and scatter them on the ground around the anthill: It
> kills off the fungus that the ants feed on.
>

As usual, I was grossly exaggerating but the ants need constant 
vigilance in some parts of the garden. Oranges: good idea! Thank you, I 
shall add them to the ordnance ;-)

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Le 16-06-22 02:44, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
> On 21-6-2016 17:29, Anthony D. Baye wrote:
>> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>>> Talking of ants, I am in the middle of a grim human-against-ants
>>> campaign. Not sure who is going to win at this stage. My forces have had
>>> to retreat a couple of yards for lack of ammunition, and major
>>> regrouping - on both sides - is under way.
>>>
>> Assuming you're being literal, I've found a pretty good solution to ant
>> infestations, if you like oranges.
>>
>> Grind up the orange peels and scatter them on the ground around the
>> anthill: It
>> kills off the fungus that the ants feed on.
>>
>
> As usual, I was grossly exaggerating but the ants need constant
> vigilance in some parts of the garden. Oranges: good idea! Thank you, I
> shall add them to the ordnance ;-)
>

Give then corn starch. They love it but can't digest it at all and it 
end up clogging their digestive thact.
For ants, eating corn starch is like us eating plaster of cement powder 
in large quantity, but tastier.



Alain

Post a reply to this message

On 23-6-2016 6:20, Alain wrote:
> Le 16-06-22 02:44, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
>> On 21-6-2016 17:29, Anthony D. Baye wrote:
>>> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>>>> Talking of ants, I am in the middle of a grim human-against-ants
>>>> campaign. Not sure who is going to win at this stage. My forces have
>>>> had
>>>> to retreat a couple of yards for lack of ammunition, and major
>>>> regrouping - on both sides - is under way.
>>>>
>>> Assuming you're being literal, I've found a pretty good solution to ant
>>> infestations, if you like oranges.
>>>
>>> Grind up the orange peels and scatter them on the ground around the
>>> anthill: It
>>> kills off the fungus that the ants feed on.
>>>
>>
>> As usual, I was grossly exaggerating but the ants need constant
>> vigilance in some parts of the garden. Oranges: good idea! Thank you, I
>> shall add them to the ordnance ;-)
>>
>
> Give then corn starch. They love it but can't digest it at all and it
> end up clogging their digestive thact.
> For ants, eating corn starch is like us eating plaster of cement powder
> in large quantity, but tastier.

Great! This is becoming nicely grisly. Maybe I should turn this into an 
image with metal ants eating/drinking something corrosive. Thanks for 
the info!

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Interesting idea about oranges as a fungicide.
I wonder if the now-nearly-ubiquitous citrus cleaners have the same effect or
are missing some key naturally occurring component.

The corn starch idea is interesting as well - I'd never heard of that.

I think the key though, as mentioned in the Sci Fi story, is to target the
queen.  Else all you're doing is racking up a body count of drones without
addressing the root of the problem.

Boric acid has been effective if employed properly.  Mix it well with sugar or
flour, or both, and then moisten it.   The boric acid will then become chelated
by any vicinal diols (adjacent hydroxyls) in the chemical structure, and be
ingested along with the bait feed.  Supposedly this gets brought back to the
nest and fed to the queen, etc.

Ants make their trails to follow with formic acid.  Perhaps laying a false trail
using natural formic acid - from ants or nettles or something - would lead them
elsewhere (maybe to your bait).  You might also spray something alkaline, and
that might ruin the trails. (baking soda, TSP, etc.)

My grandparents used "whitewash" {assuming it some kind of lime} painted onto
the base of their trees - presumably to keep the bugs off of them.

YMMV
Best of luck battling the Empire of the Ants

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 23-6-2016 6:20, Alain wrote:
> > Le 16-06-22 02:44, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
> >> On 21-6-2016 17:29, Anthony D. Baye wrote:
> >>> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> >>>> Talking of ants, I am in the middle of a grim human-against-ants
> >>>> campaign. Not sure who is going to win at this stage. My forces have
> >>>> had
> >>>> to retreat a couple of yards for lack of ammunition, and major
> >>>> regrouping - on both sides - is under way.
> >>>>
> >>> Assuming you're being literal, I've found a pretty good solution to ant
> >>> infestations, if you like oranges.
> >>>
> >>> Grind up the orange peels and scatter them on the ground around the
> >>> anthill: It
> >>> kills off the fungus that the ants feed on.
> >>>
> >>
> >> As usual, I was grossly exaggerating but the ants need constant
> >> vigilance in some parts of the garden. Oranges: good idea! Thank you, I
> >> shall add them to the ordnance ;-)
> >>
> >
> > Give then corn starch. They love it but can't digest it at all and it
> > end up clogging their digestive thact.
> > For ants, eating corn starch is like us eating plaster of cement powder
> > in large quantity, but tastier.
>
> Great! This is becoming nicely grisly. Maybe I should turn this into an
> image with metal ants eating/drinking something corrosive. Thanks for
> the info!
>
> --
> Thomas

My solution was more about driving them away than killing them.  I'm not a PETA
adherent by any means, unless you translate it as People for the Eating of Tasty
Animals but, at the same time, I hate to cause any living thing to suffer
unnecessarily.

I don't even like to use RAID on spiders.

Which is why I didn't mention the small-grain powder stuff that gets under the
plates of the ants' exoskeleton and locks up their joints and clogs their
breathing aparatus.

Food-Grade Diatomaceous Earth. Ant killer you can eat.

Army ants, now.  Those I can see killing with extreme prejudice.  Regular
ecological nightmare.

Regards,
A.D.B.

Post a reply to this message

Le 16-06-23 03:13, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
> On 23-6-2016 6:20, Alain wrote:
>> Le 16-06-22 02:44, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
>>> On 21-6-2016 17:29, Anthony D. Baye wrote:
>>>> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>>>>> Talking of ants, I am in the middle of a grim human-against-ants
>>>>> campaign. Not sure who is going to win at this stage. My forces have
>>>>> had
>>>>> to retreat a couple of yards for lack of ammunition, and major
>>>>> regrouping - on both sides - is under way.
>>>>>
>>>> Assuming you're being literal, I've found a pretty good solution to ant
>>>> infestations, if you like oranges.
>>>>
>>>> Grind up the orange peels and scatter them on the ground around the
>>>> anthill: It
>>>> kills off the fungus that the ants feed on.
>>>>
>>>
>>> As usual, I was grossly exaggerating but the ants need constant
>>> vigilance in some parts of the garden. Oranges: good idea! Thank you, I
>>> shall add them to the ordnance ;-)
>>>
>>
>> Give then corn starch. They love it but can't digest it at all and it
>> end up clogging their digestive thact.
>> For ants, eating corn starch is like us eating plaster of cement powder
>> in large quantity, but tastier.
>
> Great! This is becoming nicely grisly. Maybe I should turn this into an
> image with metal ants eating/drinking something corrosive. Thanks for
> the info!
>

Bronze or copper ants drinking nitric acid, surrounded by a reddish-brow 
clous and drippind blue fluids...

Post a reply to this message

On 23-6-2016 14:29, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Interesting idea about oranges as a fungicide.
> I wonder if the now-nearly-ubiquitous citrus cleaners have the same effect or
> are missing some key naturally occurring component.
>
> The corn starch idea is interesting as well - I'd never heard of that.
>
> I think the key though, as mentioned in the Sci Fi story, is to target the
> queen.  Else all you're doing is racking up a body count of drones without
> addressing the root of the problem.
>
> Boric acid has been effective if employed properly.  Mix it well with sugar or
> flour, or both, and then moisten it.   The boric acid will then become chelated
> by any vicinal diols (adjacent hydroxyls) in the chemical structure, and be
> ingested along with the bait feed.  Supposedly this gets brought back to the
> nest and fed to the queen, etc.
>
> Ants make their trails to follow with formic acid.  Perhaps laying a false trail
> using natural formic acid - from ants or nettles or something - would lead them
> elsewhere (maybe to your bait).  You might also spray something alkaline, and
> that might ruin the trails. (baking soda, TSP, etc.)
>
> My grandparents used "whitewash" {assuming it some kind of lime} painted onto
> the base of their trees - presumably to keep the bugs off of them.
>
> YMMV
> Best of luck battling the Empire of the Ants
>

It is getting the queen that is most desirable but also most difficult 
indeed. Oh well, it keeps me off the streets to battle ants nestling 
between the stones of my terrace (where they do the most harm, 
unsettling the stones) or infesting my tomato plants, otherwise I am one 
to let them live their little lives.

I do remember seeing whitewash on tree bases indeed. I don't know how 
effective that might be. It may be something like the blue paint around 
windows in Mediterranean countries to keep flies from coming in.

I definitely have to make an image now :-)

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 6/24/2016 7:55 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> I do remember seeing whitewash on tree bases indeed. I don't know how
> effective that might be.

You might be remembering a leftover from WWII. In Britain we whitewashed 
the bases of trees that were next to roads. It made them more visible to 
headlights that were shuttered due to the blackout.


> It may be something like the blue paint around
> windows in Mediterranean countries to keep flies from coming in.

I didn't know that.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 24-6-2016 9:16, Stephen wrote:
> On 6/24/2016 7:55 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> I do remember seeing whitewash on tree bases indeed. I don't know how
>> effective that might be.
>
> You might be remembering a leftover from WWII. In Britain we whitewashed
> the bases of trees that were next to roads. It made them more visible to
> headlights that were shuttered due to the blackout.

Yes indeed, now that you mention it. I think that was also done in other 
countries. I recall them at least from France.

>
>
>> It may be something like the blue paint around
>> windows in Mediterranean countries to keep flies from coming in.
>
> I didn't know that.
>

I have always wondered about it.

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 6/24/2016 8:33 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 24-6-2016 9:16, Stephen wrote:
>> On 6/24/2016 7:55 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> I do remember seeing whitewash on tree bases indeed. I don't know how
>>> effective that might be.
>>
>> You might be remembering a leftover from WWII. In Britain we whitewashed
>> the bases of trees that were next to roads. It made them more visible to
>> headlights that were shuttered due to the blackout.
>
> Yes indeed, now that you mention it. I think that was also done in other
> countries. I recall them at least from France.
>

But they would not have had a blackout in the USA.
I found this:
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/whitewash-tree-63606.html


>>
>>
>>> It may be something like the blue paint around
>>> windows in Mediterranean countries to keep flies from coming in.
>>
>> I didn't know that.
>>
>
> I have always wondered about it.
>

Here is a different reason from Greece:
http://www.greecetravel.com/archaeology/mitsopoulou/blue.html

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 24-6-2016 10:02, Stephen wrote:
> On 6/24/2016 8:33 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 24-6-2016 9:16, Stephen wrote:
>>> On 6/24/2016 7:55 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>> I do remember seeing whitewash on tree bases indeed. I don't know how
>>>> effective that might be.
>>>
>>> You might be remembering a leftover from WWII. In Britain we whitewashed
>>> the bases of trees that were next to roads. It made them more visible to
>>> headlights that were shuttered due to the blackout.
>>
>> Yes indeed, now that you mention it. I think that was also done in other
>> countries. I recall them at least from France.
>>
>
> But they would not have had a blackout in the USA.
> I found this:
> http://homeguides.sfgate.com/whitewash-tree-63606.html

I suppose there are different uses, this being one of them. At least the 
trees lining roads make sense even after the war when car lights and 
road lights were not what they are now. Many trees lining roads have 
been cut down since the fifties because they generated too many accidents.

>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>> It may be something like the blue paint around
>>>> windows in Mediterranean countries to keep flies from coming in.
>>>
>>> I didn't know that.
>>>
>>
>> I have always wondered about it.
>>
>
> Here is a different reason from Greece:
> http://www.greecetravel.com/archaeology/mitsopoulou/blue.html
>

I think this is spot on. I think I was told in Spain, many years ago, 
about the flies, but either the 'evil' connotation was lost, or 'flies' 
were assimilated to evil (not without reason), or they pulled my leg ;-)

-- 
Thomas

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El 24/06/16 a las 13:15, Thomas de Groot escribió:
> I think this is spot on. I think I was told in Spain, many years ago,
>  about the flies, but either the 'evil' connotation was lost, or
> 'flies' were assimilated to evil (not without reason), or they pulled
> my leg ;-)
>

   No, they really believed what they told you: it's a belief around
south Spain, although I think it really has no scientific base. For the
same or a similar reason, they recommend to put plastic bags filled with
water hanging from the ceiling.

--
jaime

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On 24-6-2016 18:56, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> El 24/06/16 a las 13:15, Thomas de Groot escribió:
>> I think this is spot on. I think I was told in Spain, many years ago,
>>  about the flies, but either the 'evil' connotation was lost, or
>> 'flies' were assimilated to evil (not without reason), or they pulled
>> my leg ;-)
>>
>
>   No, they really believed what they told you: it's a belief around
> south Spain, although I think it really has no scientific base. For the
> same or a similar reason, they recommend to put plastic bags filled with
> water hanging from the ceiling.
>

So, I remembered correctly. I was told about 50 years ago and I mistrust 
those ancient reminiscences sometimes ;-)

I guess the believe has been generated from the ancient evil-banning 
belief being frown upon by the Church and transferred to flies instead. 
And maybe flies are considered personifications of the devil. I don't 
remember about that from my chats in little villages (taverns) at that 
time...

-- 
Thomas

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On 25/06/16 07:47, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> ... I don't
> remember about that from my chats in little villages (taverns) at that
> time...
> 

... though the wine and the brandy de Jerez may have clouded your memory
somewhat ;-)

John
-- 
It's not about bravery.
It's about doing what I need to do to win

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On 25-6-2016 10:28, Doctor John wrote:
> On 25/06/16 07:47, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> ... I don't
>> remember about that from my chats in little villages (taverns) at that
>> time...
>>
>
> ... though the wine and the brandy de Jerez may have clouded your memory
> somewhat ;-)
>

That too indeed. 'Vino de Jumilla' was the local wine (3 pesetas the 
glass). The brandy... no. That was awful.

-- 
Thomas

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El 25/06/16 a las 13:30, Thomas de Groot escribió:
> That too indeed. 'Vino de Jumilla' was the local wine (3 pesetas the
> glass). The brandy... no. That was awful.
>

   3 pesetas? ...that must have been before I had the legal age to drink.
I'm not sure I was even born when wine was so cheap...

--
jaime

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On 25-6-2016 20:25, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> El 25/06/16 a las 13:30, Thomas de Groot escribió:
>> That too indeed. 'Vino de Jumilla' was the local wine (3 pesetas the
>> glass). The brandy... no. That was awful.
>>
>
>   3 pesetas? ...that must have been before I had the legal age to drink.
> I'm not sure I was even born when wine was so cheap...
>

End 60's early 70's and not on the coast or in the cities obviously but 
in the small villages in the Province of Murcia. The quality of the wine 
was not, hm, something to remember, but it was the cheapest. Better (for 
your guts) was to drink wine at 5 to 10 pesetas the glass.

-- 
Thomas

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On 26/06/16 07:45, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 25-6-2016 20:25, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>> El 25/06/16 a las 13:30, Thomas de Groot escribió:
>>> That too indeed. 'Vino de Jumilla' was the local wine (3 pesetas the
>>> glass). The brandy... no. That was awful.
>>>
>>
>>   3 pesetas? ...that must have been before I had the legal age to drink.
>> I'm not sure I was even born when wine was so cheap...
>>
> 
> End 60's early 70's and not on the coast or in the cities obviously but
> in the small villages in the Province of Murcia. The quality of the wine
> was not, hm, something to remember, but it was the cheapest. Better (for
> your guts) was to drink wine at 5 to 10 pesetas the glass.
> 

Ah yes. The price range compares favourably with that in the White
Mountains in Crete at the same time.

John (remembering his impoverished student days)
-- 
It's not about bravery.
It's about doing what I need to do to win

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On 6/26/2016 1:19 PM, Doctor John wrote:
> On 26/06/16 07:45, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 25-6-2016 20:25, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>>> El 25/06/16 a las 13:30, Thomas de Groot escribió:
>>>> That too indeed. 'Vino de Jumilla' was the local wine (3 pesetas the
>>>> glass). The brandy... no. That was awful.
>>>>
>>>
>>>    3 pesetas? ...that must have been before I had the legal age to drink.
>>> I'm not sure I was even born when wine was so cheap...
>>>
>>
>> End 60's early 70's and not on the coast or in the cities obviously but
>> in the small villages in the Province of Murcia. The quality of the wine
>> was not, hm, something to remember, but it was the cheapest. Better (for
>> your guts) was to drink wine at 5 to 10 pesetas the glass.
>>
>
> Ah yes. The price range compares favourably with that in the White
> Mountains in Crete at the same time.
>
> John (remembering his impoverished student days)
>

Strangely, I can't remember the cost of every drink I've bought. :-P

My first pint was about 1/10 or 1/11 (less than ten pence in SI units).
After that it all blends into the background.
As it should. :)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 26/06/16 13:50, Stephen wrote:
> 
> Strangely, I can't remember the cost of every drink I've bought. :-P
> 

Why? There can't have been that many :-D

John (ducks and covers)
-- 
It's not about bravery.
It's about doing what I need to do to win

Post a reply to this message

On 6/26/2016 1:59 PM, Doctor John wrote:
> On 26/06/16 13:50, Stephen wrote:
>>
>> Strangely, I can't remember the cost of every drink I've bought. :-P
>>
>
> Why? There can't have been that many :-D
>

True, true. Little ol teetotaller, me.


> John (ducks and covers)
>

Strange man. What!

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 26-6-2016 14:19, Doctor John wrote:
> On 26/06/16 07:45, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 25-6-2016 20:25, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>>> El 25/06/16 a las 13:30, Thomas de Groot escribió:
>>>> That too indeed. 'Vino de Jumilla' was the local wine (3 pesetas the
>>>> glass). The brandy... no. That was awful.
>>>>
>>>
>>>   3 pesetas? ...that must have been before I had the legal age to drink.
>>> I'm not sure I was even born when wine was so cheap...
>>>
>>
>> End 60's early 70's and not on the coast or in the cities obviously but
>> in the small villages in the Province of Murcia. The quality of the wine
>> was not, hm, something to remember, but it was the cheapest. Better (for
>> your guts) was to drink wine at 5 to 10 pesetas the glass.
>>
>
> Ah yes. The price range compares favourably with that in the White
> Mountains in Crete at the same time.
>
> John (remembering his impoverished student days)
>

And probably you remember how small the glasses were, compared to the 
fish bowls you are presented with nowadays (only partly filled) 
supposedly to keep the /aroma/! Bunch of snobs!

Fortunately, were where /there/ for a reason and so we had a financial 
subsidy from the university to help us empty the local bottles :-)

-- 
Thomas

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El 26/06/16 a las 08:45, Thomas de Groot escribió:
> End 60's early 70's and not on the coast or in the cities obviously
> but in the small villages in the Province of Murcia. The quality of
> the wine was not, hm, something to remember, but it was the cheapest.
> Better (for your guts) was to drink wine at 5 to 10 pesetas the
> glass.
>

   That explains it all: I was 5-6 years old back then... ;)

   Also, Murcia was (and perhaps still is) one of the cheapest places in
Spain. And back in the 60's and 70's, the good ones were reserved for
export, so what you tasted locally was most surely bulk wine.

--
jaime

Post a reply to this message

On 27-6-2016 13:38, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> El 26/06/16 a las 08:45, Thomas de Groot escribió:
>> End 60's early 70's and not on the coast or in the cities obviously
>> but in the small villages in the Province of Murcia. The quality of
>> the wine was not, hm, something to remember, but it was the cheapest.
>> Better (for your guts) was to drink wine at 5 to 10 pesetas the
>> glass.
>>
>
>   That explains it all: I was 5-6 years old back then... ;)

Yes, a bit young to start on the nectar of the gods perhaps ;-)

>
>   Also, Murcia was (and perhaps still is) one of the cheapest places in
> Spain. And back in the 60's and 70's, the good ones were reserved for
> export, so what you tasted locally was most surely bulk wine.
>

Absolutely. It was about average in general if you avoided the really 
cheap ones. Still, even locally, the Jumilla brand was considered 'good' 
wine in comparison with the other regions of Spain. There was no one to 
contradict of course, and certainly not the itinerant shepherds or the 
'fruteros', the seasonal fruit pickers, that came from outside the 
province. They were glad to get the wine cheap.

-- 
Thomas

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El 28/06/16 a las 08:48, Thomas de Groot escribió:
> Absolutely. It was about average in general if you avoided the really
>  cheap ones. Still, even locally, the Jumilla brand was considered
> 'good' wine in comparison with the other regions of Spain. There was
> no one to contradict of course, and certainly not the itinerant
> shepherds or the 'fruteros', the seasonal fruit pickers, that came
> from outside the province. They were glad to get the wine cheap.
>

As with any "designation of origin" here, the quality varies greatly
depending on the cellar. Even Ribera del Duero has some really bad wines.

--
jaime

Post a reply to this message

On 28-6-2016 12:22, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> El 28/06/16 a las 08:48, Thomas de Groot escribió:
>> Absolutely. It was about average in general if you avoided the really
>>  cheap ones. Still, even locally, the Jumilla brand was considered
>> 'good' wine in comparison with the other regions of Spain. There was
>> no one to contradict of course, and certainly not the itinerant
>> shepherds or the 'fruteros', the seasonal fruit pickers, that came
>> from outside the province. They were glad to get the wine cheap.
>>
>
> As with any "designation of origin" here, the quality varies greatly
> depending on the cellar. Even Ribera del Duero has some really bad wines.
>

I agree. One still need to be careful and taste before buying 
substantial quantities. My own preferences are for Spanish and Italian 
wines, above French ones. But much depends on what is available here of 
course.

Interesting how we drift from a Metal Monster image towards ants (and a 
possible scene) and then o.t. towards wines :-) stream of 
consciousness-wise...

-- 
Thomas

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On 24-6-2016 8:55, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> I definitely have to make an image now :-)

Remember Micha Riser? http://objects.povworld.org/

He has a nice ant model in POV-Ray code, originally built for Megapov 
but I made the necessary changes to be able to use it under version 3.7.

Here is a first view with the metallic skin being an extrapolation from 
a texture by Kenneth.

-- 
Thomas

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Attachments:
Download 'ant queen.png' (608 KB)

Preview of image 'ant queen.png'

Came across this at random, and thought I'd add it to the knowledge stack:

http://tiphero.com/natural-remedies-for-ants/

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Maybe it's just me, but I don't get that "this is made of metal" vibe when I
look at that.

Maybe combine what you've got with uncorroded metal to show that the corrosion /
rust / oxidation is exactly that - and not stone or whatever it might be?

I've seen some good-looking robot-type things, where there's some painted
surfaces with flaking, shiny hydraulic piston shafts, and then the rest of it is
a mix of metal, grease, rust, etc.   It seemed to me to be a very convincing
effect even though there was so little actual bare metal showing.

Maybe see about making the ant a bit less - round?   "organic"?
Throw some cylinders or facets in there, or remodel it in such a way as to
suggest that parts of it were cast - fillets, radiused parts, etc.
Screws or bolt heads
Plates or greebles

Just a suggestion.

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On 28-6-2016 18:52, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Came across this at random, and thought I'd add it to the knowledge stack:
>
> http://tiphero.com/natural-remedies-for-ants/
>
Great. Thanks!

-- 
Thomas

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On 28-6-2016 19:02, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Maybe it's just me, but I don't get that "this is made of metal" vibe when I
> look at that.

Well, this is just a first try out. I like it myself although the 
metallic part of the texture may not be that obvious indeed.

>
> Maybe combine what you've got with uncorroded metal to show that the corrosion /
> rust / oxidation is exactly that - and not stone or whatever it might be?
>
> I've seen some good-looking robot-type things, where there's some painted
> surfaces with flaking, shiny hydraulic piston shafts, and then the rest of it is
> a mix of metal, grease, rust, etc.   It seemed to me to be a very convincing
> effect even though there was so little actual bare metal showing.

I have different ways to go indeed.

>
> Maybe see about making the ant a bit less - round?   "organic"?
> Throw some cylinders or facets in there, or remodel it in such a way as to
> suggest that parts of it were cast - fillets, radiused parts, etc.
> Screws or bolt heads
> Plates or greebles

That is more difficult. The existing model's macros are already rather 
complicated and I don't see any direct way to do that. It would mean 
building a new model from scratch.

-- 
Thomas

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This is a texture I also find interesting, based on one originally 
created by Xplo Eristotle.

Afterthought: I do not want the ant to look too artificial. It should be 
an 'organic' metallic construction.

-- 
Thomas

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Attachments:
Download 'ant queen.png' (599 KB)

Preview of image 'ant queen.png'

Another variation, also based on an original by Xplo Eristotle

-- 
Thomas

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Attachments:
Download 'ant queen.png' (598 KB)

Preview of image 'ant queen.png'

Am 2016-06-29 03:47, also sprach Thomas de Groot:
> This is a texture I also find interesting, based on one originally
> created by Xplo Eristotle.
>
> Afterthought: I do not want the ant to look too artificial. It should be
> an 'organic' metallic construction.
>

I like this one best for "metallic looking"

-- 
dik

Post a reply to this message

On 10-7-2016 6:33, dick balaska wrote:
> Am 2016-06-29 03:47, also sprach Thomas de Groot:
>> This is a texture I also find interesting, based on one originally
>> created by Xplo Eristotle.
>>
>> Afterthought: I do not want the ant to look too artificial. It should be
>> an 'organic' metallic construction.
>>
>
> I like this one best for "metallic looking"
>

Yes, but I shall be using the next one below (the one with the 
rust-stained mirrored steel).

-- 
Thomas

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I elaborated a bit more on the text going with Oedipus. 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/726/Oedipus.html

I also entered a new image to the Challenge. 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/729/Ant_Queen.html

-- 
Thomas

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> I elaborated a bit more on the text going with Oedipus.
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/726/Oedipus.html

"Oh, Mother - I'm sorry it had to come to this, but I told you - time and time
again - to quit while you're a head."

> I also entered a new image to the Challenge.
> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/729/Ant_Queen.html

"Pardon me, but could you be so kind as to provide me with directions back to
the Intesrtate?

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On 7/13/2016 11:21 AM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> I elaborated a bit more on the text going with Oedipus.
>> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/726/Oedipus.html
>
> "Oh, Mother - I'm sorry it had to come to this, but I told you - time and time
> again - to quit while you're a head."
>

Groan.

Just kiss and make up.

Oh dear! I forgot. That's what started it all in the first place. ;)




-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 13-7-2016 12:21, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> I elaborated a bit more on the text going with Oedipus.
>> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/726/Oedipus.html
>
> "Oh, Mother - I'm sorry it had to come to this, but I told you - time and time
> again - to quit while you're a head."
>
>> I also entered a new image to the Challenge.
>> http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/729/Ant_Queen.html
>
> "Pardon me, but could you be so kind as to provide me with directions back to
> the Intesrtate?
>
>
>

LOL indeed, indeed.

-- 
Thomas

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