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Hi:
Here is a new scene on the making... a cave with stalactites and
stalagmites. The rough shape is a mesh created with Wings3d, then I
added a heighfield for the ground, and thrown some isosurface rocks
using trace(). Finally, also using trace(), I added some stalactites and
stalactites, which are cone-shaped isosurfaces. The water is currently a
simple plane, but should evolve into a heighfield. And yes, there will
be crystals there at some point, but for the moment I'm just looking for
comments/suggestions about the cave itself.
--
jaime
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download 'the-cave-05-2h2m.jpg' (111 KB)
Preview of image 'the-cave-05-2h2m.jpg'
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Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote on 29/02/2016 11.44:
> Hi:
>
> Here is a new scene on the making... a cave with stalactites and
> stalagmites. The rough shape is a mesh created with Wings3d, then I
> added a heighfield for the ground, and thrown some isosurface rocks
> using trace(). Finally, also using trace(), I added some stalactites and
> stalactites, which are cone-shaped isosurfaces. The water is currently a
> simple plane, but should evolve into a heighfield. And yes, there will
> be crystals there at some point, but for the moment I'm just looking for
> comments/suggestions about the cave itself.
>
> --
> jaime
>
>
The scene is beautiful as usual, but in my opinion the textures are a
bit too dark (usually the limestone is more pale) and perhaps need to be
a bit reflective near stalactites and stalagmites in order to give a
sense of humidity.
;-)
Paolo
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On 29-2-2016 12:19, Paolo Gibellini wrote:
> Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote on 29/02/2016 11.44:
>> Hi:
>>
>> Here is a new scene on the making... a cave with stalactites and
>> stalagmites. The rough shape is a mesh created with Wings3d, then I
>> added a heighfield for the ground, and thrown some isosurface rocks
>> using trace(). Finally, also using trace(), I added some stalactites and
>> stalactites, which are cone-shaped isosurfaces. The water is currently a
>> simple plane, but should evolve into a heighfield. And yes, there will
>> be crystals there at some point, but for the moment I'm just looking for
>> comments/suggestions about the cave itself.
>>
>> --
>> jaime
>>
>>
>
> The scene is beautiful as usual, but in my opinion the textures are a
> bit too dark (usually the limestone is more pale) and perhaps need to be
> a bit reflective near stalactites and stalagmites in order to give a
> sense of humidity.
> ;-)
> Paolo
>
I agree with Paolo. Here there seems to be a lot of iron in the water ;-)
I happened to read/watch about the Frasassi Caves in Le Marche in Italy
a couple of days ago. There are those beautiful lace-like stalactite
structures which I would like to see. Also, of course, a bit of
translucency.
--
Thomas
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El 29/02/16 a las 12:19, Paolo Gibellini escribió:
> The scene is beautiful as usual, but in my opinion the textures are a
> bit too dark (usually the limestone is more pale) and perhaps need
> to be a bit reflective near stalactites and stalagmites in order to
> give a sense of humidity.
Good points, thanks... the first one should be easy to fix, but the
second is going to be a render-time-nightmare.
--
jaime
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El 29/02/16 a las 13:22, Thomas de Groot escribió:
> I happened to read/watch about the Frasassi Caves in Le Marche in
> Italy a couple of days ago. There are those beautiful lace-like
> stalactite structures which I would like to see. Also, of course, a
> bit of translucency.
Well, after looking at images from these amazing caves, I hope you're
joking... it would be terrifically difficult to go for something even
remotely resembling that.
And I better will do I as I've not heard about translucency on
isosurfaces... :)
--
jaime
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Am 29.02.2016 um 11:44 schrieb Jaime Vives Piqueres:
>
> Here is a new scene on the making... a cave with stalactites and
> stalagmites. The rough shape is a mesh created with Wings3d, then I
> added a heighfield for the ground, and thrown some isosurface rocks
> using trace(). Finally, also using trace(), I added some stalactites and
> stalactites, which are cone-shaped isosurfaces.
Stalactites and stalactites, and I guess more stalactites, right? And of
course stalactites ;)
Looks fascinating.
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On 2/29/2016 12:40 PM, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> Well, after looking at images from these amazing caves, I hope you're
> joking... it would be terrifically difficult to go for something even
> remotely resembling that.
They do use coloured lights around the rocks and in the water, you know. :-)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignorancia org> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> for the moment I'm just looking for
> comments/suggestions about the cave itself.
It's dark in caves - therefore I'm used to cave images lighted with torches,
head lamps or other other point lights. I expect strong specular reflections and
light fading - especially in humid caves.
With this lighting the cave looks "flat" - I'm sure you are aware of this.
Norbert
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I'd say that shape-wise, you're off to a good start so far.
Your material texturing probably needs to have some more --- differentiation.
In my mind's eye, I conceive of layers and strata and veins of different
minerals and sediments, and oxides, and benthic layers, etc.
The homogeneous red-rust-brown looks like someone sprayed it with pigment or
rusty water. I had a shower supplied by a dug well that looked like that. :O
as for real caves - browse around and see what _you_ think.
https://www.google.com/search?q=caves&rlz=1C1AFAA_enUS660US660&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivuvDQqp3LAhX
C9h4KHZLNBRsQsAQIHA&biw=1366&bih=705
I have no doubt that you'll come up with something visually stunning, inspiring,
and something to learn from and aspire towards - as usual. :)
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On 2/29/2016 2:44 PM, Norbert Kern wrote:
> It's dark in caves -
>
> Norbert
Just a gentle reminder that TC-RTC finishes today (GMT) and all entries
need to be rated. :-)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Interesting. I, too, thought about concepts how to make a cave. :-)
It's a good idea.
My method would have been to create an iso surface and divide this from
a box. The resulting difference would be the cave. For the stalagtites
and -mites I would have used blobs. But that was my way, your way is
interesting and good, too. :-)
On 29.02.2016 05:44, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> Hi:
>
> Here is a new scene on the making... a cave with stalactites and
> stalagmites. The rough shape is a mesh created with Wings3d, then I
> added a heighfield for the ground, and thrown some isosurface rocks
> using trace(). Finally, also using trace(), I added some stalactites and
> stalactites, which are cone-shaped isosurfaces. The water is currently a
> simple plane, but should evolve into a heighfield. And yes, there will
> be crystals there at some point, but for the moment I'm just looking for
> comments/suggestions about the cave itself.
Post a reply to this message
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Here my suggestion for the illumination:
an irregular hole somewhere at the ceiling, where some light rays come
in and are even visible in the dusty air inside the cave. Some radiosity
and air that distributes the light further. Maybe a seedling or small
plant in the center of the light. :-)
On 29.02.2016 11:23, Stephen wrote:
> On 2/29/2016 2:44 PM, Norbert Kern wrote:
>> It's dark in caves -
>>
>> Norbert
>
> Just a gentle reminder that TC-RTC finishes today (GMT) and all entries
> need to be rated. :-)
>
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El 29/02/16 a las 14:54, Stephen escribió:
> On 2/29/2016 12:40 PM, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>> Well, after looking at images from these amazing caves, I hope
>> you're joking... it would be terrifically difficult to go for
>> something even remotely resembling that.
>
>
> They do use coloured lights around the rocks and in the water, you
> know. :-)
>
Yes, I know... I was referring to the intricate shapes of the
stalagmites and stalactites.
--
jaime
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El 29/02/16 a las 14:44, clipka escribió:
> Stalactites and stalactites, and I guess more stalactites, right? And
> of course stalactites ;)
>
Yeah, I know what you mean... :) At the moment there are only
stalactites paired with corresponding stalagmites, but there should be a
lot of more think stalactites all around the ceiling.
> Looks fascinating.
>
Thanks, it's also terrifically slow to render when you add area light,
focal blur and radiosity, to not talk about the suggested sss and wet
reflections. I'm not the kind of guy who waits patiently for a week to
complete a render...
--
jaime
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El 29/02/16 a las 15:44, Norbert Kern escribió:
> It's dark in caves - therefore I'm used to cave images lighted with
> torches, head lamps or other other point lights. I expect strong
> specular reflections and light fading - especially in humid caves.
>
> With this lighting the cave looks "flat" - I'm sure you are aware of
> this.
Yes, it was only a test render of the shapes, so I wanted everything
visible. The final lighting should be "natural", maybe looking from the
interior to the entrance with a sunny exterior, or perhaps with a hole
on the ceiling as Sven suggested. But the torches idea is tempting... ;)
--
jaime
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El 29/02/16 a las 17:00, Bald Eagle escribió:
> I'd say that shape-wise, you're off to a good start so far.
>
Thanks!
> Your material texturing probably needs to have some more ---
> differentiation. In my mind's eye, I conceive of layers and strata
> and veins of different minerals and sediments, and oxides, and
> benthic layers, etc. The homogeneous red-rust-brown looks like
> someone sprayed it with pigment or rusty water.
Yes, it was just the first texture I came up with... but making
something remotely credible in geological terms is going to be difficult.
> as for real caves - browse around and see what _you_ think.
> https://www.google.com/search?q=caves
I already did that search, and it's bookmarked for reference. :)
--
jaime
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El 29/02/16 a las 18:05, Sven Littkowski escribió:
> Here my suggestion for the illumination:
>
> an irregular hole somewhere at the ceiling, where some light rays
> come in and are even visible in the dusty air inside the cave. Some
> radiosity and air that distributes the light further.
Yes, that was one of my first ideas for the lighting. It's the most
"pretty" among the candidates.
> Maybe a seedling or small plant in the center of the light. :-)
Maybe a crystal cluster better? ;)
--
jaime
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El 29/02/16 a las 18:01, Sven Littkowski escribió:
> My method would have been to create an iso surface and divide this
> from a box. The resulting difference would be the cave.
I discarded that one without testing it first, because in my mind it
sounded way too slow to render.
> For the stalagtites and -mites I would have used blobs.
I've thought about blobs, as I did use them for a cavern on a very old
IRTC entry... they can give more realistic "accumulative" shapes, but I
fear they will look too smooth.
--
jaime
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Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> Just a gentle reminder that TC-RTC finishes today (GMT) and all entries
> need to be rated. :-)
>
> --
>
> Regards
> Stephen
Oh, I'd rated last week. Since most guys sent 2 or 3 images, I don't expect a
number of ratings anywhere near of the number of entries.
Norbert
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Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
> I discarded that one without testing it first, because in my mind it
> sounded way too slow to render.
Can you do the difference, convert it to a mesh, and THEN render it?
Maybe use a heightfield?
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El 29/02/16 a las 19:41, Bald Eagle escribió:
> Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
>
>> I discarded that one without testing it first, because in my mind
>> it sounded way too slow to render.
>
> Can you do the difference, convert it to a mesh, and THEN render it?
I would kill for a simple way to do that... converting isosurfaces to
meshes.
> Maybe use a heightfield?
I thought about making it with several hf's rotated around, but it
would still lack the "overhangs" that isosurfaces allow.
--
jaime
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On 2/29/2016 6:09 PM, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> El 29/02/16 a las 14:54, Stephen escribió:
>> On 2/29/2016 12:40 PM, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>>> Well, after looking at images from these amazing caves, I hope
>>> you're joking... it would be terrifically difficult to go for
>>> something even remotely resembling that.
>>
>>
>> They do use coloured lights around the rocks and in the water, you
>> know. :-)
>>
>
> Yes, I know... I was referring to the intricate shapes of the
> stalagmites and stalactites.
>
They look pretty good to me.
--
Regards
Stephen
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Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
> El 29/02/16 a las 19:41, Bald Eagle escribió:
> > Can you do the difference, convert it to a mesh, and THEN render it?
>
> I would kill for a simple way to do that... converting isosurfaces to
> meshes.
Are you aware of Kevin Loney's isosurface approximation?
http://www.econym.demon.co.uk/isotut/approx.htm
The site links to the long dead Geocities for the source, but there appears to
be a new site, which I haven't investigated:
http://www.winsite.com/Multimedia/3D-Modeling-CAD/Isosurface/
A version updated by Jaap Frank and Tor Olav Kristensen is available at p.b.s-f:
http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.scene-files/thread/%3C47cc76fd%40news.povray.org%3E/
I have had mixed results with it.
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Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
> I thought about making it with several hf's rotated around, but it
> would still lack the "overhangs" that isosurfaces allow.
Why not use reasonable fast isosurfaces?
Sometimes Samuel T. Benge's Isorender approach gives good results
(http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.scene-files/thread/%3Cweb.525dcd797919e005c8060b460@news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=40
4955&toff=50).
Here are two examples with my "universal test scene".
Norbert
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download 'iso-tests.jpg' (526 KB)
Preview of image 'iso-tests.jpg'
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El 01/03/16 a las 05:12, Cousin Ricky escribió:
> Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
>> El 29/02/16 a las 19:41, Bald Eagle escribió:
>>> Can you do the difference, convert it to a mesh, and THEN render
>>> it?
>>
>> I would kill for a simple way to do that... converting isosurfaces
>> to meshes.
>
> Are you aware of Kevin Loney's isosurface approximation?
No, and it's strange, because something like this should have sparked
my interest and I would have tested it.
> I have had mixed results with it.
>
Well, lets see how it works with pigment-based isosurfaces... I hope
it works, because if not, a lot of features are going to be missing on
my cave.
--
jaime
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El 01/03/16 a las 06:55, Norbert Kern escribió:
> Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
>
>> I thought about making it with several hf's rotated around, but it
>> would still lack the "overhangs" that isosurfaces allow.
>
>
>
> Why not use reasonable fast isosurfaces? Sometimes Samuel T. Benge's
> Isorender approach gives good results
This one I remember now... but somehow I never played with it and got
lost on my memory. I might have some uses for it on the cave, no doubt.
--
jaime
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Another cave test... with more stalactites, a better lighting and fast
radiosity. It renders a bit faster than before, because I found some
silly things I was doing with the stalactites/stalagmites isosurfaces,
and also reduced max_gradient to 3.
I tested the approx include, but found they are not very practical for
my usage of isosurfaces here (I'm using a different isosurface for each
stalactite/stalagmite, and there are a lot). I will stick to isosurfaces
for the moment...
--
jaime
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download 'the-cave-06-3h45m.jpg' (258 KB)
Preview of image 'the-cave-06-3h45m.jpg'
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Aaah! You are getting somewhere. I love this cave.
--
Thomas
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Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote on 02/03/2016 12.00:
> Another cave test... with more stalactites, a better lighting and fast
> radiosity. It renders a bit faster than before, because I found some
> silly things I was doing with the stalactites/stalagmites isosurfaces,
> and also reduced max_gradient to 3.
>
> I tested the approx include, but found they are not very practical for
> my usage of isosurfaces here (I'm using a different isosurface for each
> stalactite/stalagmite, and there are a lot). I will stick to isosurfaces
> for the moment...
>
> --
> jaime
It begins to become an interesting place... and the light is very good!
;-)
Paolo
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A vast improvement, and I'm glad you found a few places to speed up the render.
It will be interesting to see your textures, contrasts and myriad thoughtful
enhancements as this progresses.
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On 03/02/2016 09:15 AM, Paolo Gibellini wrote:
>
> It begins to become an interesting place... and the light is very good!
> ;-)
> Paolo
I had those exact thoughts on seeing this latest image! :-)
Bill P.
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Yes, I like it now more than before, too.
Just - the large crystal in the left foreground is somehow lost and not
fitting (all others are). And another observation: all stalactites and
-mites have too much the same triangular shape. When I was in caves, I
observed some which were like irregular columns, not so triangular. And
they had very wet, smooth surfaces, glossy because of the wetness, and
also levels of different colors because at different times different
minerals were in the water that run down on them.
Maybe, instead of the crystal, a little water pit..?
I try to imagine, the illumination at the background is caused by some
cave entrance on its right side and catches the late afternoon sun
(golden). Seeing light rays coming from the right side in the dusty cave
air would improve that imagination. I like the idea, to be in the darker
area and see the illuminated area in the distance, just the way you are
doing it now. :-)
Hmmm, what about a few fluorescent tiny insects or worms, seen just as
dim greenish-yellow light dots in the darker areas? :-D
Or somewhere a part of a hidden treasure chest (not leveled but a bit
diagonal in its positioning), open and full of gold coins of which some
came out and lay on the ground around it?
On 02.03.2016 06:00, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> Another cave test... with more stalactites, a better lighting and fast
> radiosity.
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El 02/03/16 a las 13:32, Thomas de Groot escribió:
> Aaah! You are getting somewhere.
Yes... underground.
> I love this cave.
Thanks!
--
jaime
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El 02/03/16 a las 16:00, William F Pokorny escribió:
> On 03/02/2016 09:15 AM, Paolo Gibellini wrote:
>>
>> It begins to become an interesting place... and the light is very
>> good! ;-) Paolo
>
> I had those exact thoughts on seeing this latest image! :-)
>
> Bill P.
>
Thanks to both! The lighting is supposed to be: daylight from the
rear-right, and a torch or lantern and the interior.
--
jaime
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El 02/03/16 a las 15:19, Bald Eagle escribió:
> A vast improvement, and I'm glad you found a few places to speed up
> the render.
Thanks. I just found a way to speed it up a lot: meshrelief.inc by
Bill Pragnell:
http://www.infradead.org/~wmp/macro_meshrelief.html
Just another thing I somehow missed until today.
> It will be interesting to see your textures, contrasts and myriad
> thoughtful enhancements as this progresses.
And a lot of fun for me, no doubt... :)
--
jaime
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El 02/03/16 a las 16:00, Sven Littkowski escribió:
> Just - the large crystal in the left foreground is somehow lost and
> not fitting (all others are).
The crystals where thrown at random, and should have keep them out at
this moment of the development, but could not resist.
> And another observation: all stalactites and -mites have too much the
> same triangular shape. When I was in caves, I observed some which
> were like irregular columns, not so triangular.
Yes, specially stalagmites should be more round and irregular.
> Hmmm, what about a few fluorescent tiny insects or worms, seen just
> as dim greenish-yellow light dots in the darker areas? :-D
Maybe... sounds nice, but don't know if the effect would be really
recognizable.
> Or somewhere a part of a hidden treasure chest (not leveled but a
> bit diagonal in its positioning), open and full of gold coins of
> which some came out and lay on the ground around it?
>
That would be way too typical, I guess... but who knows what I will
find there? :)
--
jaime
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El 02/03/16 a las 18:56, Jaime Vives Piqueres escribió:
> http://www.infradead.org/~wmp/macro_meshrelief.html
I just had to add: WOW! What a piece of work!
--
jaime
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On 3/2/2016 5:40 PM, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> El 02/03/16 a las 18:56, Jaime Vives Piqueres escribió:
>
>> http://www.infradead.org/~wmp/macro_meshrelief.html
>
> I just had to add: WOW! What a piece of work!
That site is pretty impressive.
Awesome stone here (but I don't like the girl)
http://www.infradead.org/~wmp/gallery6/beforeafter.jpg
But I love the girl here
http://www.infradead.org/~wmp/gallery6/ghostlight.jpg
--
dik
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Surprise us! :-)
On 02.03.2016 13:01, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> That would be way too typical, I guess... but who knows what I will
> find there? :)
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Nothing really new in a visual sense, but this image uses now meshes
instead isosurfaces, thanks to meshrelief.inc by Bill Pragnell. Maybe
the detail is not as great, but is very similar and the render time has
dropped insanely (this one has bigger size, more objects, focal blur,
and it renders just under half an hour). Maybe now I will be able to add
translucency and some wet-surfaces effect.
(Yes, I know I overdid the focal blur and it looks like a toy cave... :)
--
jaime
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Attachments:
Download 'the-cave-09b-27m.jpg' (236 KB)
Preview of image 'the-cave-09b-27m.jpg'
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On 5-3-2016 10:05, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> Nothing really new in a visual sense, but this image uses now meshes
> instead isosurfaces, thanks to meshrelief.inc by Bill Pragnell. Maybe
> the detail is not as great, but is very similar and the render time has
> dropped insanely (this one has bigger size, more objects, focal blur,
> and it renders just under half an hour). Maybe now I will be able to add
> translucency and some wet-surfaces effect.
>
> (Yes, I know I overdid the focal blur and it looks like a toy cave... :)
>
I love toy caves. ;-) This one looks very believable. Good job indeed.
It has been some time since I used meshrelief last but it is a nice and
useful tool.
--
Thomas
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On 3/5/2016 4:05 AM, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> and it looks like a toy cave... :)
It does. It looks like something Aardman would build.
--
dik
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Trying the rocks/stalagmites/stalactites code on a different cave with a
bit more complex geometry. Works, but tracing from a central point isn't
the best method for the rocks... will try hg-povray next for a different
approach.
--
jaime
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Attachments:
Download 'the-cave-ii-02-21m.jpg' (179 KB)
Download 'the-cave-ii-03-26m.jpg' (198 KB)
Preview of image 'the-cave-ii-02-21m.jpg'
Preview of image 'the-cave-ii-03-26m.jpg'
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Yes, the structures certainly have improved a lot! I like it. Try to use
less stalactites and -mites in the middle, or shorter ones, so the view
to the illuminated part is better.
On 05.03.2016 04:05, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> Nothing really new in a visual sense, but this image uses now meshes
> instead isosurfaces, thanks to meshrelief.inc by Bill Pragnell. Maybe
> the detail is not as great, but is very similar and the render time has
> dropped insanely (this one has bigger size, more objects, focal blur,
> and it renders just under half an hour). Maybe now I will be able to add
> translucency and some wet-surfaces effect.
>
> (Yes, I know I overdid the focal blur and it looks like a toy cave... :)
>
> --
> jaime
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A test of the "sunlight-coming-trough-a-hole-on-the-ceiling" idea...
looks promising.
--
jaime
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Attachments:
Download 'the-cave-ii-06-3h42m.jpg' (111 KB)
Preview of image 'the-cave-ii-06-3h42m.jpg'
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On 8-3-2016 8:17, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> A test of the "sunlight-coming-trough-a-hole-on-the-ceiling" idea...
> looks promising.
>
It does indeed.
--
Thomas
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Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote on 08/03/2016 8.17:
> A test of the "sunlight-coming-trough-a-hole-on-the-ceiling" idea...
> looks promising.
>
> --
> jaime
This one is magnificent!
Paolo
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Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
> El 02/03/16 a las 18:56, Jaime Vives Piqueres escribió:
>
> > http://www.infradead.org/~wmp/macro_meshrelief.html
>
> I just had to add: WOW! What a piece of work!
>
> --
> jaime
I was persuaded. Will try it one day.
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Just sent an speleologist there to see what he can discover...
(model from archive3d.net)
--
jaime
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Attachments:
Download 'the-cave-ii-07-46m.jpg' (146 KB)
Preview of image 'the-cave-ii-07-46m.jpg'
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On 9-3-2016 21:00, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> Just sent an speleologist there to see what he can discover...
>
>
> (model from archive3d.net)
>
LOL. Well done. Your cave is amazing.
--
Thomas
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