One step further. Some code clean-up and improvements, and, as shown, an 
added random texturing of the buildings.

This version of the macros is gradually diverging from the one in 
p.b.s-f. I shall see how I can include the new features in the 'public' 
version ;-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'gancaloon_old city street_05.jpg' (133 KB)

Preview of image 'gancaloon_old city street_05.jpg'

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 09:46:21 +0200, Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg>  
wrote:

> One step further. Some code clean-up and improvements, and, as shown, an
> added random texturing of the buildings.
>
> This version of the macros is gradually diverging from the one in
> p.b.s-f. I shall see how I can include the new features in the 'public'
> version ;-)
>
> Thomas

I like the new textures :)


-- 
-Nekar Xenos-

Post a reply to this message

On 12-4-2013 9:54, Nekar Xenos wrote:
>
> I like the new textures :)

Thanks. The added proximity pattern is giving me some trouble, mainly 
because of the geometric form of the buildings.  Some roughness of the 
walls will probably correct that.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 12-4-2013 9:54, Nekar Xenos wrote:
> >
> > I like the new textures :)
>
> Thanks. The added proximity pattern is giving me some trouble, mainly
> because of the geometric form of the buildings.  Some roughness of the
> walls will probably correct that.
>
> Thomas

Looking good, the texture appears lighter in several of the corners on the
walls, this is the bit I would expect to appear more dirty/darker, is the
proximity problem you are referring to?

Are you planning on adding more realistic looking doors? Maybe with different
colours if painted (not sure that would fit the scene though).

Sean

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> One step further. Some code clean-up and improvements, and, as shown, an
> added random texturing of the buildings.
>
> This version of the macros is gradually diverging from the one in
> p.b.s-f. I shall see how I can include the new features in the 'public'
> version ;-)
>
> Thomas

Would be nice to see a radiosity version of this image as well (I assume the
lighting is ambient currently?)

Sean

Post a reply to this message

On 12-4-2013 15:03, s.day wrote:
> Would be nice to see a radiosity version of this image as well (I assume the
> lighting is ambient currently?)

Strange you say this. This *is* a radiosity version ;-)

Currently:

   radiosity {
     pretrace_start 0.08
     pretrace_end   0.004
     count 50, 500
     nearest_count 10, 5
     error_bound 0.6
     recursion_limit 2
     low_error_factor .3
     gray_threshold 0.0
     minimum_reuse 0.010
     maximum_reuse 0.1							
     brightness 1
     adc_bailout 0.01/2
     normal off
     media off
     always_sample off
   }

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 12-4-2013 15:01, s.day wrote:
> Looking good, the texture appears lighter in several of the corners on the
> walls, this is the bit I would expect to appear more dirty/darker, is the
> proximity problem you are referring to?

No, the lighter colour of the edges is intentional as dirt is rubbed off 
there, or so I imagine. On the other hand, dirt accumulation in angles 
and corners is maybe less well treated this way. Room for improvement, 
no doubt ;-)

The problem I refer to is the spots near the first floor windows. My 
hope is that with a more irregular surface they will mostly disappear.

>
> Are you planning on adding more realistic looking doors? Maybe with different
> colours if painted (not sure that would fit the scene though).

Oh yes. Once the general issues are solved, more details will be given 
to doors and windows, especially in close-up scenes. In overviews they 
will be switched off.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 12-4-2013 15:03, s.day wrote:
> > Would be nice to see a radiosity version of this image as well (I assume the
> > lighting is ambient currently?)
>
> Strange you say this. This *is* a radiosity version ;-)
>
> Currently:
>
>    radiosity {
>      pretrace_start 0.08
>      pretrace_end   0.004
>      count 50, 500
>      nearest_count 10, 5
>      error_bound 0.6
>      recursion_limit 2
>      low_error_factor .3
>      gray_threshold 0.0
>      minimum_reuse 0.010
>      maximum_reuse 0.1
>      brightness 1
>      adc_bailout 0.01/2
>      normal off
>      media off
>      always_sample off
>    }
>
> Thomas

Oops.. sorry, I guess looking at the inside of the windows it shows radiosity
effects, I think the shadows of the buildings on the road and to a certain
extent the shadows on the walls in many areas look too consistent, I would
expect them to darken a bit as they get into corners etc..

I assume you have ambient_light set to zero in the scene? (looking at the
darkness inside the windows would point to this being set I guess).

Will look more closely before I comment again ;-)

Sean

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 12-4-2013 15:01, s.day wrote:
> > Looking good, the texture appears lighter in several of the corners on the
> > walls, this is the bit I would expect to appear more dirty/darker, is the
> > proximity problem you are referring to?
>
> No, the lighter colour of the edges is intentional as dirt is rubbed off
> there, or so I imagine. On the other hand, dirt accumulation in angles
> and corners is maybe less well treated this way. Room for improvement,
> no doubt ;-)
>
> The problem I refer to is the spots near the first floor windows. My
> hope is that with a more irregular surface they will mostly disappear.
>
> >
> > Are you planning on adding more realistic looking doors? Maybe with different
> > colours if painted (not sure that would fit the scene though).
>
> Oh yes. Once the general issues are solved, more details will be given
> to doors and windows, especially in close-up scenes. In overviews they
> will be switched off.
>
> Thomas

Hi Thomas,

It was not the edge corners I was referring to, I agree these would be lighter
but more the inner angles where as you say dirt tends to accumulate I was
referring to.

Ahh, yes I did think the spots near the windows looked a bit odd, wish I could
offer some useful advice but all my textures are manually tweaked so I have no
experience of using the proximity method.

I look forward to seeing the next installment from this project.

Sean

Post a reply to this message

On 13-4-2013 1:56, s.day wrote:

> Oops.. sorry, I guess looking at the inside of the windows it shows radiosity
> effects, I think the shadows of the buildings on the road and to a certain
> extent the shadows on the walls in many areas look too consistent, I would
> expect them to darken a bit as they get into corners etc..

The radiosity settings are not optimal I think. For a high quality 
render of this street, they would have to be improved.

>
> I assume you have ambient_light set to zero in the scene? (looking at the
> darkness inside the windows would point to this being set I guess).

ambient_light is set at default. I fooled you! ;-) The inside of the 
windows is a surface with pigment {rgb <0,0,0>} as the inside of the 
houses are of no concern. In a later stage, most will get shutters 
and/or bars.

>
> Will look more closely before I comment again ;-)

No, please do! It helps me to look at coding details I may overlook.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 13-4-2013 1:56, s.day wrote:
> > I assume you have ambient_light set to zero in the scene? (looking at the
> > darkness inside the windows would point to this being set I guess).
>
> ambient_light is set at default. I fooled you! ;-) The inside of the
> windows is a surface with pigment {rgb <0,0,0>} as the inside of the
> houses are of no concern. In a later stage, most will get shutters
> and/or bars.

If you're using POV-Ray 3.7, then ambient_light is automatically set to zero
whenever radiosity is used.

(In 3.6, I preferred to set #default { finish { ambient 0 } } rather than mess
around with ambient_light, as glowing objects are impossible with the latter.)

Post a reply to this message

On 14-4-2013 5:12, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> If you're using POV-Ray 3.7, then ambient_light is automatically set to zero
> whenever radiosity is used.

True. In fact, I have never bothered about ambient_light for years ;-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Le 13-04-12 19:56, s.day a écrit :
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> On 12-4-2013 15:03, s.day wrote:
>>> Would be nice to see a radiosity version of this image as well (I assume the
>>> lighting is ambient currently?)
>>
>> Strange you say this. This *is* a radiosity version ;-)
>>
>> Currently:
>>
>>     radiosity {
>>       pretrace_start 0.08
>>       pretrace_end   0.004
>>       count 50, 500
>>       nearest_count 10, 5
>>       error_bound 0.6
>>       recursion_limit 2
>>       low_error_factor .3
>>       gray_threshold 0.0
>>       minimum_reuse 0.010
>>       maximum_reuse 0.1
>>       brightness 1
>>       adc_bailout 0.01/2
>>       normal off
>>       media off
>>       always_sample off
>>     }
>>
>> Thomas
>
> Oops.. sorry, I guess looking at the inside of the windows it shows radiosity
> effects, I think the shadows of the buildings on the road and to a certain
> extent the shadows on the walls in many areas look too consistent, I would
> expect them to darken a bit as they get into corners etc..
>
> I assume you have ambient_light set to zero in the scene? (looking at the
> darkness inside the windows would point to this being set I guess).
>
> Will look more closely before I comment again ;-)
>
> Sean
>
>

Rendered with version 3.7, so, ambient get automativaly turned OFF as 
soon as radiosity is activated.
You can tell it use version 3.7 when you see double values after count 
and nearest_count, as well as the presance of maximum_reuse.


Alain

Post a reply to this message

Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> Le 13-04-12 19:56, s.day a écrit :
> > Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> >> On 12-4-2013 15:03, s.day wrote:
> >>> Would be nice to see a radiosity version of this image as well (I assume the
> >>> lighting is ambient currently?)
> >>
> >> Strange you say this. This *is* a radiosity version ;-)
> >>
> >> Currently:
> >>
> >>     radiosity {
> >>       pretrace_start 0.08
> >>       pretrace_end   0.004
> >>       count 50, 500
> >>       nearest_count 10, 5
> >>       error_bound 0.6
> >>       recursion_limit 2
> >>       low_error_factor .3
> >>       gray_threshold 0.0
> >>       minimum_reuse 0.010
> >>       maximum_reuse 0.1
> >>       brightness 1
> >>       adc_bailout 0.01/2
> >>       normal off
> >>       media off
> >>       always_sample off
> >>     }
> >>
> >> Thomas
> >
> > Oops.. sorry, I guess looking at the inside of the windows it shows radiosity
> > effects, I think the shadows of the buildings on the road and to a certain
> > extent the shadows on the walls in many areas look too consistent, I would
> > expect them to darken a bit as they get into corners etc..
> >
> > I assume you have ambient_light set to zero in the scene? (looking at the
> > darkness inside the windows would point to this being set I guess).
> >
> > Will look more closely before I comment again ;-)
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
>
> Rendered with version 3.7, so, ambient get automativaly turned OFF as
> soon as radiosity is activated.
> You can tell it use version 3.7 when you see double values after count
> and nearest_count, as well as the presance of maximum_reuse.
>
>
> Alain

If you have heard the saying ignorance is bliss, then I must be very happy ;-)

I have not tried the new double values on 3.7 do they make much difference to
performance? (always looking for ways to speed up a render).

Sean

Post a reply to this message

On 14-4-2013 20:10, s.day wrote:
> Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

>> Rendered with version 3.7, so, ambient get automativaly turned OFF as
>> soon as radiosity is activated.
>> You can tell it use version 3.7 when you see double values after count
>> and nearest_count, as well as the presance of maximum_reuse.
>>
>>
>> Alain
>
> If you have heard the saying ignorance is bliss, then I must be very happy ;-)

<grin> Keep it that way. ;-)

>
> I have not tried the new double values on 3.7 do they make much difference to
> performance? (always looking for ways to speed up a render).

I have not experimented much I confess, and am not sure I entirely 
understand their use, so I am not sure.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

>Thomas de Groot  on date 12/04/2013 9.46 wrote:
> One step further. Some code clean-up and improvements, and, as shown, an
> added random texturing of the buildings.
>
> This version of the macros is gradually diverging from the one in
> p.b.s-f. I shall see how I can include the new features in the 'public'
> version ;-)
>
> Thomas
Even and even better.
Perhaps the walls on the ground floor of the homes with the "towers" 
need to be reinforced in order to sustain the weight of the construction 
(I think that at the time in Gancaloon were used stones or mud and wood 
for constructions).
;-)
Paolo

Post a reply to this message

Le 13-04-14 14:10, s.day a écrit :
> Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
>> Le 13-04-12 19:56, s.day a écrit :
>>> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>>>> On 12-4-2013 15:03, s.day wrote:
>>>>> Would be nice to see a radiosity version of this image as well (I assume the
>>>>> lighting is ambient currently?)
>>>>
>>>> Strange you say this. This *is* a radiosity version ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Currently:
>>>>
>>>>      radiosity {
>>>>        pretrace_start 0.08
>>>>        pretrace_end   0.004
>>>>        count 50, 500
>>>>        nearest_count 10, 5
>>>>        error_bound 0.6
>>>>        recursion_limit 2
>>>>        low_error_factor .3
>>>>        gray_threshold 0.0
>>>>        minimum_reuse 0.010
>>>>        maximum_reuse 0.1
>>>>        brightness 1
>>>>        adc_bailout 0.01/2
>>>>        normal off
>>>>        media off
>>>>        always_sample off
>>>>      }
>>>>
>>>> Thomas
>>>
>>> Oops.. sorry, I guess looking at the inside of the windows it shows radiosity
>>> effects, I think the shadows of the buildings on the road and to a certain
>>> extent the shadows on the walls in many areas look too consistent, I would
>>> expect them to darken a bit as they get into corners etc..
>>>
>>> I assume you have ambient_light set to zero in the scene? (looking at the
>>> darkness inside the windows would point to this being set I guess).
>>>
>>> Will look more closely before I comment again ;-)
>>>
>>> Sean
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Rendered with version 3.7, so, ambient get automativaly turned OFF as
>> soon as radiosity is activated.
>> You can tell it use version 3.7 when you see double values after count
>> and nearest_count, as well as the presance of maximum_reuse.
>>
>>
>> Alain
>
> If you have heard the saying ignorance is bliss, then I must be very happy ;-)
>
> I have not tried the new double values on 3.7 do they make much difference to
> performance? (always looking for ways to speed up a render).
>
> Sean
>
>
>

The second value for count set a larger direction pool for the radiosity 
sampling. It should not have any important effect on the speed, but can 
affect the quality. In some cases, it allow you to use a smaller count 
value, making the render faster. If used, it MUST be larger than the 
first value. Those who use it seems to tend to use a value at least 10 
times larger than the first one.

The double nearest_count can affect the quality and the speed. The first 
value set the maximum bound to be used in areas where the samples have 
more variation. The second value is the minimal value to be used in 
areas where everything is prety uniform, like a large, plain wall.

maximim_reuse set the largest distance any sample can be reused. It's 
grosly a ratio of the width ov the scene.

If you use a smaller pretrace_end value, you often can do with more 
relaxed settings elsewhere. The default of  0.04 is often much to large, 
I usualy use 0.01 or 0.005. low_error_factor also play a large role in 
reducing the sampling done during the final trace and a small value can 
greatly reduce artefacts on multi-core systems. Keep it at or under the 
default value of 0.5.


Alain

Post a reply to this message

Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> Le 13-04-14 14:10, s.day a écrit :
> > Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> >> Le 13-04-12 19:56, s.day a écrit :
> >>> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> >>>> On 12-4-2013 15:03, s.day wrote:
> >>>>> Would be nice to see a radiosity version of this image as well (I assume the
> >>>>> lighting is ambient currently?)
> >>>>
> >>>> Strange you say this. This *is* a radiosity version ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Currently:
> >>>>
> >>>>      radiosity {
> >>>>        pretrace_start 0.08
> >>>>        pretrace_end   0.004
> >>>>        count 50, 500
> >>>>        nearest_count 10, 5
> >>>>        error_bound 0.6
> >>>>        recursion_limit 2
> >>>>        low_error_factor .3
> >>>>        gray_threshold 0.0
> >>>>        minimum_reuse 0.010
> >>>>        maximum_reuse 0.1
> >>>>        brightness 1
> >>>>        adc_bailout 0.01/2
> >>>>        normal off
> >>>>        media off
> >>>>        always_sample off
> >>>>      }
> >>>>
> >>>> Thomas
> >>>
> >>> Oops.. sorry, I guess looking at the inside of the windows it shows radiosity
> >>> effects, I think the shadows of the buildings on the road and to a certain
> >>> extent the shadows on the walls in many areas look too consistent, I would
> >>> expect them to darken a bit as they get into corners etc..
> >>>
> >>> I assume you have ambient_light set to zero in the scene? (looking at the
> >>> darkness inside the windows would point to this being set I guess).
> >>>
> >>> Will look more closely before I comment again ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Sean
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Rendered with version 3.7, so, ambient get automativaly turned OFF as
> >> soon as radiosity is activated.
> >> You can tell it use version 3.7 when you see double values after count
> >> and nearest_count, as well as the presance of maximum_reuse.
> >>
> >>
> >> Alain
> >
> > If you have heard the saying ignorance is bliss, then I must be very happy ;-)
> >
> > I have not tried the new double values on 3.7 do they make much difference to
> > performance? (always looking for ways to speed up a render).
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
> >
>
> The second value for count set a larger direction pool for the radiosity
> sampling. It should not have any important effect on the speed, but can
> affect the quality. In some cases, it allow you to use a smaller count
> value, making the render faster. If used, it MUST be larger than the
> first value. Those who use it seems to tend to use a value at least 10
> times larger than the first one.
>
> The double nearest_count can affect the quality and the speed. The first
> value set the maximum bound to be used in areas where the samples have
> more variation. The second value is the minimal value to be used in
> areas where everything is prety uniform, like a large, plain wall.
>
> maximim_reuse set the largest distance any sample can be reused. It's
> grosly a ratio of the width ov the scene.
>
> If you use a smaller pretrace_end value, you often can do with more
> relaxed settings elsewhere. The default of  0.04 is often much to large,
> I usualy use 0.01 or 0.005. low_error_factor also play a large role in
> reducing the sampling done during the final trace and a small value can
> greatly reduce artefacts on multi-core systems. Keep it at or under the
> default value of 0.5.
>
>
> Alain

Wow, thanks Alain, you have just supercharged the radiosity gathering stage of
my renders. I need to do a comparisson for quality, I usually run a no focal
blur/AA render to gather the radiosity data then reload this data with pretrace
set to 1. The radiosity render was running at about 5 hours and with these
settings is now taking about 7 minutes!

Will run the final high quality trace now to see if it looks as good as my 5
hour trace. Oh the hours I have wasted ;-)

Sean

Post a reply to this message

On 15-4-2013 16:27, Paolo Gibellini wrote:
>  >Thomas de Groot  on date 12/04/2013 9.46 wrote:
>> One step further. Some code clean-up and improvements, and, as shown, an
>> added random texturing of the buildings.
>>
>> This version of the macros is gradually diverging from the one in
>> p.b.s-f. I shall see how I can include the new features in the 'public'
>> version ;-)
>>
>> Thomas
> Even and even better.

Thank you, Paolo :-)

> Perhaps the walls on the ground floor of the homes with the "towers"
> need to be reinforced in order to sustain the weight of the construction
> (I think that at the time in Gancaloon were used stones or mud and wood
> for constructions).

That's an idea, and easy to implement.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> One step further. Some code clean-up and improvements, and, as shown, an
> added random texturing of the buildings.
>
> This version of the macros is gradually diverging from the one in
> p.b.s-f. I shall see how I can include the new features in the 'public'
> version ;-)
>
> Thomas

I like the textures, except that the stones in the street look too clean and
evenly worn for it to be an "Old" city.

The things that jar my sensibilities are the 2-1/2 foot drop from the bottom
step of the second house on the right, the perfectly clean lines of the
buildings and the grade of the street from one side to the other.

Just a suggestion, but you might consider making the street more level, if you
can.  I understand that it's all one height field, but maybe you can find some
way to deform it - say you were to take a spline of the street and flatten the
pixels within a certain distance on either side, not necessarily perfectly
level, but more level than it is.

I don't know how your macro would handle the adjustment to the terrain.

I really love the concept.

Regards,
A.D.B.

Post a reply to this message

On 16-4-2013 19:52, Anthony D. Baye wrote:

> I like the textures, except that the stones in the street look too clean and
> evenly worn for it to be an "Old" city.

Of course. Be aware that this is all in some kind of beta state. The end 
product will show a very different street surface texture.

>
> The things that jar my sensibilities are the 2-1/2 foot drop from the bottom
> step of the second house on the right, the perfectly clean lines of the
> buildings and the grade of the street from one side to the other.

<grin> Most of this has been solved at this moment, except for the clean 
lines of the buildings. Some degrading has still to be done on them.

>
> Just a suggestion, but you might consider making the street more level, if you
> can.  I understand that it's all one height field, but maybe you can find some
> way to deform it - say you were to take a spline of the street and flatten the
> pixels within a certain distance on either side, not necessarily perfectly
> level, but more level than it is.

This has been solved. For the close-up views a separate street surface 
is generated, following the height_field but level cross-streetwise. 
This is not an automatic process but modelled separately. Not so 
difficult to do as I use a high-resolution mesh copy of the local 
height_field for modelling purposes.

> I don't know how your macro would handle the adjustment to the terrain.

Simply by making a union of the street surface object and the 
height_field before trace()

A new street view is being rendered.

>
> I really love the concept.

Thank you indeed. I have not finished exploring the possibilities.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

The same street after some improvements.

- a level street surface object is added.
- code influencing the buildings along the street boundaries has been 
fine-tuned.
- doors, shutters, and bars have been added (not all visible here though).

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'gancaloon_old city street_07.jpg' (133 KB)

Preview of image 'gancaloon_old city street_07.jpg'

"s.day" <s.d### [at] uelacuk> wrote:
>
> Wow, thanks Alain, you have just supercharged the radiosity gathering stage of
> my renders. I need to do a comparisson for quality, I usually run a no focal
> blur/AA render to gather the radiosity data then reload this data with pretrace
> set to 1. The radiosity render was running at about 5 hours and with these
> settings is now taking about 7 minutes!
>
> Will run the final high quality trace now to see if it looks as good as my 5
> hour trace. Oh the hours I have wasted ;-)
>
> Sean

Ahh.. thought that was too good to be true, the quality was not so good, still
with a few tweaks I now have almost identical quality with a 2 hour radiosity
gathering stage so still a big improvement.

Thanks

Sean

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> The same street after some improvements.
>
> - a level street surface object is added.
> - code influencing the buildings along the street boundaries has been
> fine-tuned.
> - doors, shutters, and bars have been added (not all visible here though).
>
> Thomas

Hi Thomas,

Looking better, I think adding some open shutters and mabe the odd door at a
random angle would be good.

Sean

Post a reply to this message

On 17-4-2013 13:10, s.day wrote:
> Looking better, I think adding some open shutters and mabe the odd door at a
> random angle would be good.

Yes, I could indeed open some shutters. At this moment one of the two 
available doors is ajar, but unfortunately it is not one of the doors 
shown here :-) I could probably automate opening and shutting the doors 
randomly. On my ToDo list.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

An update of the Old City overview. State-of-the-art.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'gancaloon_old city overview_03.jpg' (222 KB)

Preview of image 'gancaloon_old city overview_03.jpg'

From the number of houses (single and double floored) I guestimate that 
the population lies between 25000 and 30000 in this part of the city. :-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Am 15.04.2013 23:46, schrieb Alain:

> The double nearest_count can affect the quality and the speed. The first
> value set the maximum bound to be used in areas where the samples have
> more variation. The second value is the minimal value to be used in
> areas where everything is prety uniform, like a large, plain wall.

No, not exactly.

Normally, during pretrace the whole image is scanned over and over again 
with ever increasing resolution, as specified by the pretrace_start and 
pretrace_end parameters. In each pass, for each individual location 
probed it is checked whether the nearest_count condition is satisfied, 
and if not, another sample is added there.

This is rather inefficient, as in regions where the individual locations 
probed already did satisfy the nearest_count location, it is unlikely to 
find individual locations that don't satisfy that condition yet.

If you specify a second parameter to nearest_count, regions where the 
/average/ sample density satisfies this second condition in one pass are 
skipped in any further pretrace passes.


Thus, the second parameter to nearest_count can be considered an average 
sample density to aim for, while the first parameter can be considered a 
local maximum sample density.

Post a reply to this message

>Thomas de Groot  on date 17/04/2013 15.53 wrote:
> An update of the Old City overview. State-of-the-art.
>
> Thomas
>
Both the last views of Gancaloon are magnificent!
Paolo

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> One step further. Some code clean-up and improvements, and, as shown, an
> added random texturing of the buildings.
>
> This version of the macros is gradually diverging from the one in
> p.b.s-f. I shall see how I can include the new features in the 'public'
> version ;-)
>
> Thomas

I can't be the first one to ask if you've seen "Marwencol." Just in case, I'd
strongly suggest watching it if you haven't.

 -Shay

Post a reply to this message

On 15-5-2013 20:34, Shay wrote:
> I can't be the first one to ask if you've seen "Marwencol." Just in case, I'd
> strongly suggest watching it if you haven't.

You are indeed the first to mention Marwencol, Shay, and I had not been 
aware of it until now. Thanks for pointing it out to me. Fascinating 
stuff. Very familiar.

I can readily appreciate the similarities in purpose, although no brain 
damage in my case - as far as I know ;-) but the compulsion to create 
one's own world is there and I have felt it strongly my whole life.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote in message 
news:51948a54$1@news.povray.org...
>
> I can readily appreciate the similarities in purpose, although no brain 
> damage in my case - as far as I know ;-)

Ha!

I had no intention to imply /THAT/ similarity. What you might not have 
gotten from the (I guess you watched it) trailer is that Mark is very 
talented in addition to being a little "off". "Pictures of dolls" is a 
semi-popular and dishwater-dull contemporary-art genre (at least in 
Houston), but Mark is a gifted photographer and able to make it interesting.

 -Shay

Post a reply to this message

On 16-5-2013 11:50, Shay wrote:
> I had no intention to imply /THAT/ similarity. What you might not have
> gotten from the (I guess you watched it) trailer is that Mark is very
> talented in addition to being a little "off". "Pictures of dolls" is a
> semi-popular and dishwater-dull contemporary-art genre (at least in
> Houston), but Mark is a gifted photographer and able to make it
> interesting.

The trailer is not enough for a correct appreciation, but stills from 
his work give a good idea of his talent. I know how difficult it is to 
do this kind of photographic work well /and/ make it interesting, having 
explored the same premisses a bit way back in the seventies. Mark is 
very talented indeed. I shall have to dig a bit further into his work. I 
find it quite fascinating.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Hi(gh)!

On 16.05.2013 09:27, Thomas de Groot wrote:

> I can readily appreciate the similarities in purpose, although no brain
> damage in my case - as far as I know ;-) but the compulsion to create
> one's own world is there and I have felt it strongly my whole life.

Same with me... it started quite early in my childhood days - anybody 
who gave 9-year-old Jörg Bleimann some paper, pencils and felt pens soon 
saw him drawing colorful topographic maps of imaginary places... back 
then, I day-dreamed together an entire planet, M 720 or Jörgiania, a 
world populated by immortal, hyper-intelligent children but also at 
constant war with a Darth Vader-like oppressor...

Unfortunately, none of these countless maps (there were physical as well 
as thematic maps, also city maps) survived until today, as my parents 
back then were quite uneasy about my vivid imagination, so they threw 
away all those maps I had drawn between 1977 and 1983.

At 21, a fellow student who studied linguistics and started a 
collaborative Tolkien-ish fantasy project, inspired me to re-create M 
720 (now to be called "Ilthanalg" - "planet of the Sacred Number") and 
even to develop an own language for its people; so I drew several global 
maps (physical, political, temperatures, precipitation and vegetation.

I scanned those maps when my computer equipment became sophisticated 
enough during the 1990s... but then lost them all to a catastrophic 
Windows crash. But nevertheless, I think I'm still able to re-draw them 
from memory... and I also have written a lengthy introduction to 
Ilthanalg, currently only in German, but I hope to get it translated in 
the not-too-distant future.

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Post a reply to this message

On 27-5-2013 16:58, Jörg 'Yadgar' Bleimann wrote:
> Hi(gh)!
>
> On 16.05.2013 09:27, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> I can readily appreciate the similarities in purpose, although no brain
>> damage in my case - as far as I know ;-) but the compulsion to create
>> one's own world is there and I have felt it strongly my whole life.
>
> Same with me... it started quite early in my childhood days - anybody
> who gave 9-year-old Jörg Bleimann some paper, pencils and felt pens soon
> saw him drawing colorful topographic maps of imaginary places... back
> then, I day-dreamed together an entire planet, M 720 or Jörgiania, a
> world populated by immortal, hyper-intelligent children but also at
> constant war with a Darth Vader-like oppressor...

Yes, I can imagine that. I was less map-oriented though ;-)

>
> Unfortunately, none of these countless maps (there were physical as well
> as thematic maps, also city maps) survived until today, as my parents
> back then were quite uneasy about my vivid imagination, so they threw
> away all those maps I had drawn between 1977 and 1983.

Oh, that's sad indeed.

>
> At 21, a fellow student who studied linguistics and started a
> collaborative Tolkien-ish fantasy project, inspired me to re-create M
> 720 (now to be called "Ilthanalg" - "planet of the Sacred Number") and
> even to develop an own language for its people; so I drew several global
> maps (physical, political, temperatures, precipitation and vegetation.
>
> I scanned those maps when my computer equipment became sophisticated
> enough during the 1990s... but then lost them all to a catastrophic
> Windows crash. But nevertheless, I think I'm still able to re-draw them
> from memory... and I also have written a lengthy introduction to
> Ilthanalg, currently only in German, but I hope to get it translated in
> the not-too-distant future.

Nothing like memory and imagination. Although with POV-Ray I really 
approximate what I see in my mind, still the mind vistas are grander. 
Smells, noises, variations of shades, throngs of people...

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 27 May 2013 16:58:02 +0200, Jörg 'Yadgar' Bleimann  

<yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:

> Hi(gh)!
>
> On 16.05.2013 09:27, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> I can readily appreciate the similarities in purpose, although no bra
in
>> damage in my case - as far as I know ;-) but the compulsion to create

>> one's own world is there and I have felt it strongly my whole life.
>
> Same with me... it started quite early in my childhood days - anybody 
 

> who gave 9-year-old Jörg Bleimann some paper, pencils and felt pens 
soon  

> saw him drawing colorful topographic maps of imaginary places... back 
 

> then, I day-dreamed together an entire planet, M 720 or Jörgiania, a
  

> world populated by immortal, hyper-intelligent children but also at  

> constant war with a Darth Vader-like oppressor...
>
> Unfortunately, none of these countless maps (there were physical as we
ll  

> as thematic maps, also city maps) survived until today, as my parents 
 

> back then were quite uneasy about my vivid imagination, so they threw 
 

> away all those maps I had drawn between 1977 and 1983.
>
> At 21, a fellow student who studied linguistics and started a  

> collaborative Tolkien-ish fantasy project, inspired me to re-create M 
 

> 720 (now to be called "Ilthanalg" - "planet of the Sacred Number") and
  

> even to develop an own language for its people; so I drew several glob
al  

> maps (physical, political, temperatures, precipitation and vegetation.

>
> I scanned those maps when my computer equipment became sophisticated  

> enough during the 1990s... but then lost them all to a catastrophic  

> Windows crash. But nevertheless, I think I'm still able to re-draw the
m  

> from memory... and I also have written a lengthy introduction to  

> Ilthanalg, currently only in German, but I hope to get it translated i
n  

> the not-too-distant future.
>
> See you in Khyberspace!
>
> Yadgar
>

I find this very inspiring. Makes me want to continue working on my  

BueHaria Binary planets :)

-- 

-Nekar Xenos-

Post a reply to this message

Hi(gh)!

On 27.05.2013 20:15, Nekar Xenos wrote:

> I find this very inspiring. Makes me want to continue working on my
> BueHaria Binary planets :)

BueHaria Binary planets? Sounds interesting... are they co-orbital or in 
fact a binary system like Pluto and Charon? Would you tell us more about 
them?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 28 May 2013 01:10:26 +0200, Jörg 'Yadgar' Bleimann  

<yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:

> Hi(gh)!
>
> On 27.05.2013 20:15, Nekar Xenos wrote:
>
>> I find this very inspiring. Makes me want to continue working on my
>> BueHaria Binary planets :)
>
> BueHaria Binary planets? Sounds interesting... are they co-orbital or 
in  

> fact a binary system like Pluto and Charon? Would you tell us more abo
ut  

> them?
>
> See you in Khyberspace!
>
> Yadgar
>

I started making up this world when I first heard of binary stars and  

planets in High-school. I think it must have been something I read in  

Scientific American that triggered the idea. Somewhere there was mention
  

that the Earth and the moon could almost be a binary planet system. So  

yes, like Pluto and Charon. Bueharia is a binary planet system consistin
g  

of the planets Bu and Har.

Bue is a beautiful blue planet where plants have blue leaves (I think th
is  

would require a method other than photosynthesis, but I don't know enoug
h  

about biology to come up with an idea for that). Also there is lots of  

gold in the soil, so walking on a golden beach would be nothing unnatura
l.  

Most animals would have 6 limbs of which 2 are normally wings. The  

intelligent beings (Aliel) would have seven slender fingers of which 2 a
re  

thumbs, 1 on each side of the hand. There are different races with skin 
 

and hair colours ranging from cyan - blue - magenta - gold. (One could f
or  

instance have blue skin and gold hair). Normally they weave their own ha
ir  

into clothes - without cutting it, so their hair would be one with their
  

clothes. The story would start in the forest age of Bue (Similar to our 
 

stone age) where everyone lives in trees. These trees grow a natural  

man-sized nest on each branch, so a new couple would search for a small 
 

tree and plan their family according to when new nests have grown. The  

atmosphere would be very thick to allow large animals to fly and  

Pegasus-like creatures abound.

Har on the other hand is very much like a prison planet and used as one 
 

later on. There is a lot of volcanic activity and the only water comes  

 from geysers. You can never see the horizon because of all the smoke. A
ny  

hair or feathers would be singed off because of the heat, so most life o
n  

this planet is reptilian. War is the norm and thus there is very little 
 

life on this planet.

-- 

-Nekar Xenos-

Post a reply to this message

"Nekar Xenos" <nek### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Bue is a beautiful blue planet where plants have blue leaves (I think th
> is
>
> would require a method other than photosynthesis, but I don't know enoug
> h
>
> about biology to come up with an idea for that).

Some animals right here on Earth use copper as a base for their oxygen-bearing
protein instead of iron, resulting in blue blood; so I can easily imagine a
photosynthesis that uses a catalyst other than magnesium-based chlorophyll.
Actually, Wikipedia does mention some other photosynthetic pigments, such as
carotenes and xanthophylls, so dream away!

Post a reply to this message

I love this! A great setting for when intelligent life starts space 
travel... This reminds me of the good old SF days when space travel and 
alien worlds were the norm. Too much Fantasy nowadays... :-(

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 29 May 2013 02:55:37 +0200, Cousin Ricky <rickysttATyahooDOTcom>  
wrote:

> "Nekar Xenos" <nek### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> Bue is a beautiful blue planet where plants have blue leaves (I think th
>> is
>>
>> would require a method other than photosynthesis, but I don't know enoug
>> h
>>
>> about biology to come up with an idea for that).
>
> Some animals right here on Earth use copper as a base for their  
> oxygen-bearing
> protein instead of iron, resulting in blue blood; so I can easily  
> imagine a
> photosynthesis that uses a catalyst other than magnesium-based  
> chlorophyll.
> Actually, Wikipedia does mention some other photosynthetic pigments,  
> such as
> carotenes and xanthophylls, so dream away!
>
>
This is getting interesting :)

-- 
-Nekar Xenos-

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 29 May 2013 13:29:15 +0200, Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg>  
wrote:

> I love this! A great setting for when intelligent life starts space  
> travel... This reminds me of the good old SF days when space travel and  
> alien worlds were the norm. Too much Fantasy nowadays... :-(
>
> Thomas

I saw an article somewhere earlier this year stating that when fringe  
ended, it was the last of Science Fiction on TV. Maybe I have to work on  
getting Bue-Haria out there :)

-- 
-Nekar Xenos-

Post a reply to this message

On 29-5-2013 20:09, Nekar Xenos wrote:
>
> I saw an article somewhere earlier this year stating that when fringe
> ended, it was the last of Science Fiction on TV. Maybe I have to work on
> getting Bue-Haria out there :)
>

Who knows. There still is the SciFi Channel on cable...

Bu-Haria would make an interesting series indeed. A wealth of plot 
possibilities. It could go from purely Heinlein or 'Doc' Smith (from the 
Skylark and Lensman books) to Moorcock or LeGuin I believe...

Thomas

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