Playing again with bullet physics, this time with spheres filling a box. 
Being from Valencia, the subject was obvious from the start... :)

These are my old "isoranges", filling a wooden box quickly modelled with 
Wings3D and resting on a image-mapped plane. The photographic nature of 
the plane was dissimulated a bit using 30000 grass-like meshes textured 
with the same image.

After the 2h render, I noticed the oranges looked way too artificial 
without sslt... So, I rendered in 13m an additional image with 
subsurface{} on the oranges and everything else in black, then screened 
this image on top of the original render.

--
Jaime

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Attachments:
Download 'oranges-box-03-ssltpp.jpg' (387 KB) Download 'oranges-box-03-sslt.jpg' (49 KB)

Preview of image 'oranges-box-03-ssltpp.jpg'

Preview of image 'oranges-box-03-sslt.jpg'

>Jaime Vives Piqueres  on date 18/09/2012 9.04 wrote:
> Playing again with bullet physics, this time with spheres filling a box.
> Being from Valencia, the subject was obvious from the start... :)
>
> These are my old "isoranges", filling a wooden box quickly modelled with
> Wings3D and resting on a image-mapped plane. The photographic nature of
> the plane was dissimulated a bit using 30000 grass-like meshes textured
> with the same image.
>
> After the 2h render, I noticed the oranges looked way too artificial
> without sslt... So, I rendered in 13m an additional image with
> subsurface{} on the oranges and everything else in black, then screened
> this image on top of the original render.
>
> --
> Jaime
>
Next step: add the fragrance to the oranges...
;-)
Paolo

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On 18/09/12 09:44, Paolo Gibellini wrote:
> Next step: add the fragrance to the oranges...

   Well... that's physically possible, but a bit expensive: I just have
to print it to paper, spray it with a fresh orange, and send it to every
every subscriber by postal mail. :)

--
Jaime

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Excellent! Also the box is nicely done and textured.

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Excellent! Also the box is nicely done and textured.

Agreed, those oranges look very tasty :)
These physics sims are fun.
-------------------------------------------------
www.McGregorFineArt.com

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On 18/09/2012 8:04 AM, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> Being from Valencia, the subject was obvious from the start... :)

Where are the walnuts? And burn your name into the box. ;-)


Excellent! ¡olé!


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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Am 18.09.2012 09:04, schrieb Jaime Vives Piqueres:

> After the 2h render, I noticed the oranges looked way too artificial
> without sslt... So, I rendered in 13m an additional image with
> subsurface{} on the oranges and everything else in black, then screened
> this image on top of the original render.

Well, to be honest, when I first saw the image I thought "this needs 
SSLT", so apparently it's not enough.

I suspect that image composition of a non-SSLT scene with a SSLT-only 
one doesn't quite cut it. SSLT isn't an effect "on top" of the regular 
lighting effects, but a replacement for the diffuse component.

You should also check the color of the translucency effect.

I'm not sure about the highlights either, I think they're too sharp. 
Also try working with the new "specular albedo FLOAT" syntax, in my 
experience it helps a lot to achieve convincing highlights.

At any rate, good job on the scene as a whole!

Post a reply to this message

On 18/09/12 13:18, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Excellent!

   Thanks!

> Also the box is nicely done and textured.

   It's just Wings3D autoUV, using normal projection... I just rotated
some uv segments to have all them aligned along the wood vein.

--
Jaime

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On 18/09/12 15:39, Robert McGregor wrote:
 > Agreed, those oranges look very tasty :)

   Thanks!

 > These physics sims are fun.

   Yes... even being limited the most basic things, there is still plenty
of room to come up with interesting scenes.

--
Jaime

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On 18/09/12 21:27, Stephen wrote:
> Where are the walnuts?

   Sorry, this is not California... no walnuts here. ;)

> And burn your name into the box. ;-)

   Done!  ...tough not my name, but a fictitious company.

--
Jaime

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Attachments:
Download 'oranges-box-04-ssltpp.jpg' (471 KB)

Preview of image 'oranges-box-04-ssltpp.jpg'

On 19/09/12 00:06, clipka wrote:
> Well, to be honest, when I first saw the image I thought "this needs
>  SSLT", so apparently it's not enough.
>

   I used 50% opacity on the SSLT layer, and perhaps it wasn't enough. On
the last one posted above, I didn't use any transparency on the screened
layer, and it looks a bit better.

> I suspect that image composition of a non-SSLT scene with a SSLT-only
>  one doesn't quite cut it. SSLT isn't an effect "on top" of the
> regular lighting effects, but a replacement for the diffuse
> component.
>
> You should also check the color of the translucency effect.
>
> I'm not sure about the highlights either, I think they're too sharp.
>  Also try working with the new "specular albedo FLOAT" syntax, in my
>  experience it helps a lot to achieve convincing highlights.

   As usual, you're right on all accounts...

   The SSLT layer is of course a dirty trick, but it's worth the little
extra time if you don't have the patience to wait 2 days for the "real
thing". :)  ...as for the color, in fact I rendered he SSLT layer with
"translucency 1", and added later the red tone with The Gimp (this
seemed to give the best results with the "screen" layering mode).

   And yes, the highlights are wrong for "recently collected" oranges
(but they would be not too off for oranges on the market). I guess it's
time to try the new albedo feature... :)

> At any rate, good job on the scene as a whole!

   Thanks!

--
Jaime

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>Jaime Vives Piqueres  on date 18/09/2012 10.50 wrote:
> On 18/09/12 09:44, Paolo Gibellini wrote:
>> Next step: add the fragrance to the oranges...
>
>    Well... that's physically possible, but a bit expensive: I just have
> to print it to paper, spray it with a fresh orange, and send it to every
> every subscriber by postal mail. :)
>
> --
> Jaime
>
Or perhaps some kind of scent generator 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_scent_technology)? Naa, I prefer 
better the fresh orange sprayed on the postcard... a new kind of business.
;-)
Paolo

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Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
> On 18/09/12 21:27, Stephen wrote:
> > Where are the walnuts?
>
>    Sorry, this is not California... no walnuts here. ;)
>
> > And burn your name into the box. ;-)
>
>    Done!  ...tough not my name, but a fictitious company.
>
> --
> Jaime

I was thinking of this:
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/luis-melendez-still-life-with-oranges-and-walnuts

But maybe you could use bullet physics to make a Valencian paella?

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On 19-9-2012 14:21, Stephen wrote:
> I was thinking of this:
>
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/luis-melendez-still-life-with-oranges-and-walnuts

I wonder what POV-Ray version he is using. SSLT is missing... ;-)

Thomas

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On 19/09/12 14:21, Stephen wrote:
> I was thinking of this:
>
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/luis-melendez-still-life-with-oranges-and-walnuts

Very interesting painter... I never heard of him, but I'm really
ignorant about art and artists.

> But maybe you could use bullet physics to make a Valencian paella?

   :) ...totally weird idea, but feasible to some degree. It would be
difficult to model some of the ingredients realistically enough, if I
want to stick to the official denomination of Valencian Paella.

--
Jaime

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On 19-9-2012 16:03, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 19-9-2012 14:21, Stephen wrote:
>> I was thinking of this:
>>
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/luis-melendez-still-life-with-oranges-and-walnuts
>>
>
> I wonder what POV-Ray version he is using. SSLT is missing... ;-)
>

On a more serious note: One day, I would like to render a copy of this 
painting. Some interesting challenges in terms of modelling amongst others.

Thomas

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Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
> On 19/09/12 14:21, Stephen wrote:
> > I was thinking of this:
> >
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/luis-melendez-still-life-with-oranges-and-walnuts
>
> Very interesting painter... I never heard of him, but I'm really
> ignorant about art and artists.
>

A trip to Madrid to go to the Prado is worthwhile IMO.
Or a bit closer is Barcelona’s Joan Miró Foundation. I don’t know what you have
in Valencia, I’ve only eve changed buses there.

> > But maybe you could use bullet physics to make a Valencian paella?
>
>    :) ...totally weird idea, but feasible to some degree. It would be
> difficult to model some of the ingredients realistically enough, if I
> want to stick to the official denomination of Valencian Paella.
>

A Joke! A joke! But if you want to try you would be an alchemist. ;-)

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 19-9-2012 16:03, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > On 19-9-2012 14:21, Stephen wrote:
> >> I was thinking of this:
> >>
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/luis-melendez-still-life-with-oranges-and-walnuts
> >>
> >
> > I wonder what POV-Ray version he is using. SSLT is missing... ;-)
> >
>

On other paintings for instance “Still Life with a plate of grapes” he uses SSLT
to good effect. But you have to see them in the flesh, so to speak. (I actually
wanted to wipe the bloom off.)

http://s3.amazonaws.com/magnoliasoft.imageweb/bridgeman/supersize/xir375130.jpg


> On a more serious note: One day, I would like to render a copy of this
> painting. Some interesting challenges in terms of modelling amongst others.
>

Many a time I have looked at it and other still life then just wandered away
saddened at the mess I know I would make. :-(
But don’t let that stop YOU.

Post a reply to this message

Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
> On 18/09/12 21:27, Stephen wrote:
> > And burn your name into the box. ;-)
>
>    Done!  ...tough not my name, but a fictitious company.

The subsurface on the oranges looks much better now, as does the ground texture
and grass blades. I love the idea and implementation of the burned lettering
too. Nicely done, Jaime!

Cheers
-------------------------------------------------
www.McGregorFineArt.com

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On 19-9-2012 17:32, Stephen wrote:
> On other paintings for instance “Still Life with a plate of grapes” he uses SSLT
> to good effect. But you have to see them in the flesh, so to speak. (I actually
> wanted to wipe the bloom off.)
>
> http://s3.amazonaws.com/magnoliasoft.imageweb/bridgeman/supersize/xir375130.jpg

Weird. His finish{} block of the grape is flawed imo, and he used indeed 
Sam's bloom macro.

>
>
>> On a more serious note: One day, I would like to render a copy of this
>> painting. Some interesting challenges in terms of modelling amongst others.
>>
>
> Many a time I have looked at it and other still life then just wandered away
> saddened at the mess I know I would make. :-(
> But don’t let that stop YOU.

Not necessarily a mess, Stephen. It would be your own interpretation of 
it. As a kind of citation, in its own right.

I need some time before starting seriously...

Thomas

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Le 18/09/12 3:04 AM, Jaime Vives Piqueres a écrit :
> Playing again with bullet physics, this time with spheres filling a box.
> Being from Valencia, the subject was obvious from the start... :)
>
> These are my old "isoranges", filling a wooden box quickly modelled with
> Wings3D and resting on a image-mapped plane. The photographic nature of
> the plane was dissimulated a bit using 30000 grass-like meshes textured
> with the same image.
>
> After the 2h render, I noticed the oranges looked way too artificial
> without sslt... So, I rendered in 13m an additional image with
> subsurface{} on the oranges and everything else in black, then screened
> this image on top of the original render.
>
> --
> Jaime
>

Very nice... except that ripe Valencia oranges are actualy green. They 
start green, turn orange, then turn back to a particular dark green once 
fully rippened. They are dyed orange before been sold.

Post a reply to this message

> Very nice... except that ripe Valencia oranges are actualy green. They
> start green, turn orange, then turn back to a particular dark green once
> fully rippened. They are dyed orange before been sold.

Seems that this man knows what he's talking, jaime. ;-)

B Gimeno

Post a reply to this message

> Very nice... except that ripe Valencia oranges are actualy green. They
> start green, turn orange, then turn back to a particular dark green once
> fully rippened. They are dyed orange before been sold.


Please share your sources, everything what Jaime and I thought we knew about the
oranges is having grown up and lived in a place that produces oranges (and some
rice), and is the first time I hear of that paint to sell oranges. The truth is
that oranges are "polish" and cleaned after collection to look more appealing,
but not "paint" anything.

Although I think the dark green pigment referred, with white spots and a
characteristic odor of overripe fruit is usually indicative of an orange that
has ceased to offer certain health guarantees.

B. Gimeno

btw, una imatge collonuda jaume!

Post a reply to this message

Le 20/09/12 5:57 PM, B. Gimeno a écrit :
>
>> Very nice... except that ripe Valencia oranges are actualy green. They
>> start green, turn orange, then turn back to a particular dark green once
>> fully rippened. They are dyed orange before been sold.
>
>
> Please share your sources, everything what Jaime and I thought we knew about the
> oranges is having grown up and lived in a place that produces oranges (and some
> rice), and is the first time I hear of that paint to sell oranges. The truth is
> that oranges are "polish" and cleaned after collection to look more appealing,
> but not "paint" anything.

Not all oranges rippen the same way, or in the same time. Some go from 
flowers to ripe fruit in less than a year, other can take up to 3 to 5 
years... Some orange trees can have flowers, unripe fruits and ripe 
fruits at the same time.

No paint, orange DYE.
If you scratch the surface or a real valencia orange, you may find some 
green. That green rarely go deeper than 1mm. Under that, you have white 
peel, then orange flesh.

I've seen some photos of valencia oranges, in the tree, at various 
rippening stages (flowers, small fruit, large somewhat light green 
fruits, unripe orange fruits and dark green ripe fruits) a few years 
ago. I can't find those right now.

>
> Although I think the dark green pigment referred, with white spots and a
> characteristic odor of overripe fruit is usually indicative of an orange that
> has ceased to offer certain health guarantees.
Dark green, without any white or gray spot, similar to that of a ripe lime.
>
> B. Gimeno
>
> btw, una imatge collonuda jaume!
>
>

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Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

> Not all oranges rippen the same way, or in the same time. Some go from
> flowers to ripe fruit in less than a year, other can take up to 3 to 5
> years... Some orange trees can have flowers, unripe fruits and ripe
> fruits at the same time.


>
> No paint, orange DYE.
> If you scratch the surface or a real valencia orange, you may find some
> green. That green rarely go deeper than 1mm. Under that, you have white
> peel, then orange flesh.

Well, I've been reporting before answering this, and must comment some thing. As
Valencian oranges are grown intensively is not very common in this area to have
varieties of orange that take more than a year to grow, it is normal to be
collected, depending on variety, between September and November, every year.

Oranges are not berries, but a cross man-made artificial, between grapefruit and
tangerines created in Southeast Asia. They produce and consume green "Oranges"
(and its called oranges).

John Lloyd, in his book "The new great little book of ignorance," reads:
Oranges are not a tropical fruit, but subtropical, and the color depends on
where you grow. In temperate climates, the green skin turns orange with the
fresh, on the contrary, in countries where it's always warm, the cold does not
destroy the chlorophyll, and green fruit preserves. For example, oranges are
eaten green in Honduras, in the country of origin, but are colored artificially
for export. To achieve this, they are sprayed with ethylene gas, a byproduct of
the oil whose main application is the production of plastic. Ethylene is the
most produced organic compound in the world, generated over one hundred million
tons annually. Remove the outer layer, naturally green, and reveals the better
known orange.

In the orange crop, where interested to get as much crop, the best quality
possible and as attractive as possible and with maximum shelf life possible,
what is done is to gather as much mandarin oranges, as the grapefruits or lemons
at a point very early ripening, almost green, although they are edible and taste
good, but his skin is still tight and thin, so that what is done is that the
tape passes automatically which toasts were literally given heat, and evenly,
making the orange has an attractive appearance, orange everywhere, with a thin
skin and easy to peel, and a long service life. If you think about it, it is
almost impossible for a wild orange is uniform in color, and the sun will be
areas of Orange to come not through the branches and leaves, but nevertheless,
oranges and tangerines we buy at the greengrocers are whole oranges. Why?,
Because it artificially roasted.

This responds to the complaint that many people have that "oranges today are not
like before." Clearly, because years ago oranges were cut at a point of optimum
maturity, so the orange was orange, and a taste of natural ripening on the tree,
but his appearance was of an orange with rough skin and enough and with a
lifespan of just two or three days. Today, oranges we buy are very attractive
visually, and last in our orchard until more than a week, by contrast, has a
bland flavor.

O yes. The original name for oranges was 'narangah' from Sanskrit, (naranja in
spanish) and literally means 'poison for elephants'. This is because of an old
legend which had as a delicacy orange was so rich and sweet that elephants came
to die of gluttony eating oranges.


Info extracted and translated from:
http://www.xatakaciencia.com/sabias-que/las-naranjas-no-son-de-color-naranja-porque-se-tinen-sinteticamente-para-que-pa
rezcan-naranjas

B. Gimeno

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Am 21.09.2012 00:47, schrieb Alain:
> Le 20/09/12 5:57 PM, B. Gimeno a écrit :
>>
>>> Very nice... except that ripe Valencia oranges are actualy green. They
>>> start green, turn orange, then turn back to a particular dark green once
>>> fully rippened. They are dyed orange before been sold.
>>
>>
>> Please share your sources, everything what Jaime and I thought we knew
>> about the
>> oranges is having grown up and lived in a place that produces oranges
>> (and some
>> rice), and is the first time I hear of that paint to sell oranges. The
>> truth is
>> that oranges are "polish" and cleaned after collection to look more
>> appealing,
>> but not "paint" anything.
>
> Not all oranges rippen the same way, or in the same time. Some go from
> flowers to ripe fruit in less than a year, other can take up to 3 to 5
> years... Some orange trees can have flowers, unripe fruits and ripe
> fruits at the same time.
>
> No paint, orange DYE.

They are neither painted nor dyed, but rather treated with ethylene gas, 
which triggers the natural change in color that would usually accompany 
the ripening of the fruit in favorable weather conditions; this works 
because ethylene is a natural hormone in plants that, among others, 
regulates ripening of fruit.

Post a reply to this message

On 20/09/12 22:57, Alain wrote:
> Very nice... except that ripe Valencia oranges are actualy green.
> They start green, turn orange, then turn back to a particular dark
> green once fully rippened. They are dyed orange before been sold.

   Hmmm... I'm not really an expert, so I don't know for sure, but I'm
surrounded by millions of orange trees and never seen this, or heard it
referred. To my knowledge, oranges just start green and turn orange.
People here traditionally collected them at that point, but due to
markets, today they collect them much sooner, when they are still a bit
green (or so says my mother, who worked as harvester when she was young).

   Personally, I *always* eat non-market oranges, picked directly from
the tree (some friends and family members have their own orange fields)
or purchased directly to the field owner in front of their house:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7063/6820027554_1a5fb41634_z.jpg

   No dying here, they are sold as they come out from the tree... but
perhaps it is true for oranges marketed to distant places, as they are
picked still green.

   Regards,

--
Jaime

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On 20/09/12 23:57, B. Gimeno wrote:
>
> btw, una imatge collonuda jaume!
>

   Thanks, but I'm missing the "Xé" somewhere on that sentence... ;)

--
Jaime

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On 21/09/12 02:09, clipka wrote:
> They are neither painted nor dyed, but rather treated with ethylene
> gas, which triggers the natural change in color that would usually
> accompany the ripening of the fruit in favorable weather conditions;
> this works because ethylene is a natural hormone in plants that,
> among others, regulates ripening of fruit.

   After a little investigation, this seems to be the case, indeed...
you're correct as usual. :)

--
Jaime

Post a reply to this message

On 20/09/12 23:42, B. Gimeno wrote:
>
>> Very nice... except that ripe Valencia oranges are actualy green.
>> They start green, turn orange, then turn back to a particular dark
>> green once fully rippened. They are dyed orange before been sold.
>
> Seems that this man knows what he's talking, jaime. ;-)

   Usually, he does, so there must be some truth on it, and in fact I
think I've heard it sometimes (always related to big commercial
distribution).

--
Jaime

Post a reply to this message

Am 21.09.2012 09:15, schrieb Jaime Vives Piqueres:
> On 21/09/12 02:09, clipka wrote:
>> They are neither painted nor dyed, but rather treated with ethylene
>> gas, which triggers the natural change in color that would usually
>> accompany the ripening of the fruit in favorable weather conditions;
>> this works because ethylene is a natural hormone in plants that,
>> among others, regulates ripening of fruit.
>
>    After a little investigation, this seems to be the case, indeed...
> you're correct as usual. :)

:-)

To reveal a little secret of mine, that's only because I have the 
time-consuming habit of checking what I'm writing about (sometimes to 
find that I'm actually completely wrong and need to re-write the whole 
posting), so often my postings are more of a digest from Wikipedia pages 
than what I had previously thought to known :-)

Post a reply to this message

Le 21/09/2012 09:01, Jaime Vives Piqueres nous fit lire :
> On 20/09/12 22:57, Alain wrote:
>> Very nice... except that ripe Valencia oranges are actualy green.
>> They start green, turn orange, then turn back to a particular dark
>> green once fully rippened. They are dyed orange before been sold.
> 
>   Hmmm... I'm not really an expert, so I don't know for sure, but I'm
> surrounded by millions of orange trees and never seen this, or heard it
> referred. To my knowledge, oranges just start green and turn orange.
> People here traditionally collected them at that point, but due to
> markets, today they collect them much sooner, when they are still a bit
> green (or so says my mother, who worked as harvester when she was young).
> 
>   Personally, I *always* eat non-market oranges, picked directly from
> the tree (some friends and family members have their own orange fields)
> or purchased directly to the field owner in front of their house:
> 
> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7063/6820027554_1a5fb41634_z.jpg
> 
>   No dying here, they are sold as they come out from the tree... but
> perhaps it is true for oranges marketed to distant places, as they are
> picked still green.


A bit of extra:

Ethylen gas is used as documented by other posters.
And for extra conservation, citrus fruits (lemon, orange, grapefruit...)
can also be waxed.
The purpose of the wax is to keep the water inside, so the fruit seems
fresh far more time. And it make the fruit shiny.
Extra bonus of waxed fruit, for the seller: as they keep their water,
they weight more on the long run than a natural old fruit; It's
important when you deal the fruit by the weight (if you want money).

Post a reply to this message

Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
> On 18/09/12 21:27, Stephen wrote:
> > And burn your name into the box. ;-)
>
>    Done!  ...tough not my name, but a fictitious company.
>

Nice one, Jaime! The grass is a welcome departure from most other CG lawns: it
appears to have some history to it. The oranges lose some realism due to their
ends having the pinched appearance of either cylindrical or spherical mapping,
but otherwise they look pretty good :)

Sam

Post a reply to this message

On 22/09/12 20:46, Samuel Benge wrote:
> Nice one, Jaime! The grass is a welcome departure from most other CG
> lawns: it appears to have some history to it. The oranges lose some
> realism due to their ends having the pinched appearance of either
> cylindrical or spherical mapping, but otherwise they look pretty
> good :)

   Thanks, Sam...  the grass is just a simple and dirty trick, but works
fine. I first used a simple image map with a grass picture from
mayang.com, but obviously this looked too flat at most angles. It just
occurred to me that I could add scattered mesh-blades to dissimulate the
problem while benefiting from the realism of the image map. This worked
because I used the same image map as source for the blades green tones.

   And yes, the ends of the "isorange" are not very well done: when I
modeled these for a still-life years ago, they were always resting on
its end, so I never got to see the problem until now... :(

--
Jaime

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