POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.binaries.images : Transparant shadow? Server Time
11 Oct 2026 23:25:19 EDT (-0400)
  Transparant shadow? (Message 1 to 21 of 21)  
From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 10:23:22
Message: <4afad6ea@news.povray.org>
OK. I should know this, but somehow I am baffled now.

- png image_map (on a mesh2)
- uv_mapped
- with alpha channel (for serrated borders)
- floating above a table
---> casts *straight* shadows!

Rendered in 3.7 beta 34.

I forget something, but what?

Thanks for your help!!!


-- 
All the best,

Thomas


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 11:32:39
Message: <4afae727$1@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot wrote:
> OK. I should know this, but somehow I am baffled now.
> 
> - png image_map (on a mesh2)
> - uv_mapped
> - with alpha channel (for serrated borders)
> - floating above a table
> ---> casts *straight* shadows!
> 
> Rendered in 3.7 beta 34.
> 
> I forget something, but what?
> 
> Thanks for your help!!!
> 
> 
> 

How appropriate “The Fool reversed” LOL

If no one answers before tonight I’ll have a go.



-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 12:45:07
Message: <4afaf823$1@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot schrieb:

> Rendered in 3.7 beta 34.
> 
> I forget something, but what?

A bug I'd say.


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 12:47:33
Message: <4afaf8b5@news.povray.org>
clipka schrieb:
> Thomas de Groot schrieb:
> 
>> Rendered in 3.7 beta 34.
>>
>> I forget something, but what?
> 
> A bug I'd say.

(That is, yes, I can confirm this behavior, and no, it's not how it 
should work...)


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 12:54:07
Message: <4afafa3f$1@news.povray.org>
clipka schrieb:
> clipka schrieb:
>> Thomas de Groot schrieb:
>>
>>> Rendered in 3.7 beta 34.
>>>
>>> I forget something, but what?
>>
>> A bug I'd say.
> 
> (That is, yes, I can confirm this behavior, and no, it's not how it 
> should work...)

... and no, much to my surprise POV-Ray 3.6.2 ain't doin' it right either.

How come it has taken so long for this one to surface? You'd think it 
was some trivial everyday case. And how the **** come I've done renders 
with ample such partially-transparent objects casting /proper/ shadows?


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From: Jaime Vives Piqueres
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 13:09:31
Message: <4afafddb$1@news.povray.org>
El 11/11/09 18:53, clipka escribió:
> clipka schrieb:
>
> ... and no, much to my surprise POV-Ray 3.6.2 ain't doin' it right
> either.
>
> How come it has taken so long for this one to surface? You'd think it was
> some trivial everyday case. And how the **** come I've done renders with
> ample such partially-transparent objects casting /proper/ shadows?


   I don't know... but this happened sometimes to me with certain PNG files,
and not with others. For example, all the trasnparent PNG files I export
from Chief Architect seem to behave this way, but the ones from TORCS I used
on my last post here and other scenes, work perfectly... except if I use
filtering media or fog, of course.

-- 
Jaime Vives Piqueres

http://www.ignorancia.org


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 13:40:54
Message: <4afb0536$1@news.povray.org>
Jaime Vives Piqueres schrieb:
> El 11/11/09 18:53, clipka escribió:
>> clipka schrieb:
>>
>> ... and no, much to my surprise POV-Ray 3.6.2 ain't doin' it right
>> either.
>>
>> How come it has taken so long for this one to surface? You'd think it was
>> some trivial everyday case. And how the **** come I've done renders with
>> ample such partially-transparent objects casting /proper/ shadows?
> 
> 
>   I don't know... but this happened sometimes to me with certain PNG files,
> and not with others. For example, all the trasnparent PNG files I export
> from Chief Architect seem to behave this way, but the ones from TORCS I 
> used
> on my last post here and other scenes, work perfectly... except if I use
> filtering media or fog, of course.


I guess I got it.

The following construct works properly:

     texture { uv_mapping pigment { image_map { ... } }

This one doesn't:

     texture { pigment { uv_mapping image_map { ... } }

Note the placement of the uv_mapping statement.

I'll file an error report if nobody has done yet.


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 14:06:29
Message: <4afb0b35@news.povray.org>
Stephen wrote:

>>
> 
> How appropriate “The Fool reversed” LOL
> 
> If no one answers before tonight I’ll have a go.
> 

Since it is a bug why not use a transparency map in the meantime?

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen


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From: Jaime Vives Piqueres
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 14:18:07
Message: <4afb0def@news.povray.org>
El 11/11/09 19:40, clipka escribió:
> I guess I got it.
>
> The following construct works properly:
>
> texture { uv_mapping pigment { image_map { ... } }
>
> This one doesn't:
>
> texture { pigment { uv_mapping image_map { ... } }
>
> Note the placement of the uv_mapping statement.
>
> I'll file an error report if nobody has done yet.

   Didn't test it, but looking at my own scenes now, I can confirm this
finding: the ones I exported from Chief Architect where exported with
Poseray, which puts the uv_mapping inside the pigment, indeed... you're
fast, man!


-- 
Jaime Vives Piqueres

http://www.ignorancia.org


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 14:46:47
Message: <4afb14a7@news.povray.org>
Jaime Vives Piqueres schrieb:

>   Didn't test it, but looking at my own scenes now, I can confirm this
> finding: the ones I exported from Chief Architect where exported with
> Poseray, which puts the uv_mapping inside the pigment, indeed... you're
> fast, man!

Yeah, I guess I am - as a matter of fact, I even finished a fix some 
minutes ago, ready to be submitted to the codebase.

Wasn't such a big deal actually. Throwing out the dozen lines of code 
that handled the case that's working already, in favor of five lines of 
code someplace else to handle both cases in one go did the job.


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 16:01:16
Message: <4afb261c@news.povray.org>
clipka escreveu:
> Jaime Vives Piqueres schrieb:
>> El 11/11/09 18:53, clipka escribió:
>>> clipka schrieb:
>>>
>>> ... and no, much to my surprise POV-Ray 3.6.2 ain't doin' it right
>>> either.
>>>
>>> How come it has taken so long for this one to surface? You'd think it 
>>> was
>>> some trivial everyday case. And how the **** come I've done renders with
>>> ample such partially-transparent objects casting /proper/ shadows?
>>
>>
>>   I don't know... but this happened sometimes to me with certain PNG 
>> files,
>> and not with others. For example, all the trasnparent PNG files I export
>> from Chief Architect seem to behave this way, but the ones from TORCS 
>> I used
>> on my last post here and other scenes, work perfectly... except if I use
>> filtering media or fog, of course.
> 
> 
> I guess I got it.
> 
> The following construct works properly:
> 
>     texture { uv_mapping pigment { image_map { ... } }
> 
> This one doesn't:
> 
>     texture { pigment { uv_mapping image_map { ... } }
> 
> Note the placement of the uv_mapping statement.

That's not a bug, that's a feature! ;)

yes, I've met it before and yes, I thought it was a feature... :P

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 11 Nov 2009 17:13:59
Message: <4afb3727@news.povray.org>
nemesis schrieb:

> That's not a bug, that's a feature! ;)
> 
> yes, I've met it before and yes, I thought it was a feature... :P

Not bloody likely.


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 12 Nov 2009 04:19:06
Message: <4afbd30a$1@news.povray.org>
"Jaime Vives Piqueres" <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> schreef in bericht 
news:4afb0def@news.povray.org...
>   Didn't test it, but looking at my own scenes now, I can confirm this
> finding: the ones I exported from Chief Architect where exported with
> Poseray, which puts the uv_mapping inside the pigment, indeed... you're
> fast, man!
>

Note that the latest version of Poseray puts the uv-mapping code *wrongly*. 
Older versions did put it in the *right* place. I guess that is why I had 
not noticed this really before.

Thomas


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 12 Nov 2009 04:25:33
Message: <4afbd48d$1@news.povray.org>
"clipka" <ano### [at] anonymousorg> schreef in bericht 
news:4afb0536$1@news.povray.org...
> I guess I got it.
>
> The following construct works properly:
>
>     texture { uv_mapping pigment { image_map { ... } }
>
> This one doesn't:
>
>     texture { pigment { uv_mapping image_map { ... } }
>
> Note the placement of the uv_mapping statement.
>
> I'll file an error report if nobody has done yet.

Yes, this works correctly, Christoph. Thanks!

I shall post a also a comment in povray.tools.poser for the difference in 
Poseray.

Thomas


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 12 Nov 2009 04:44:43
Message: <4afbd90b@news.povray.org>
"Stephen" <mca### [at] aolDOTcom> schreef in bericht 
news:4afb0b35@news.povray.org...
> Stephen wrote:
>
>>>
>>
>> How appropriate “The Fool reversed” LOL

LOL indeed!!

>>
>> If no one answers before tonight I’ll have a go.
>>
>
> Since it is a bug why not use a transparency map in the meantime?
>

It was because I did not use a transparency map that I discovered the 
problem, but also that Poseray had changed the place of the uv_mapping code 
in the latest version which led ultimately to the discovery.

Thomas


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 12 Nov 2009 07:31:09
Message: <4afc000d$1@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot wrote:
> "Stephen" <mca### [at] aolDOTcom> schreef in bericht 
> news:4afb0b35@news.povray.org...
>> Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> How appropriate “The Fool reversed” LOL
> 
> LOL indeed!!
> 
>>> If no one answers before tonight I’ll have a go.
>>>
>> Since it is a bug why not use a transparency map in the meantime?
>>
> 
> It was because I did not use a transparency map that I discovered the 
> problem, but also that Poseray had changed the place of the uv_mapping code 
> in the latest version which led ultimately to the discovery.
> 

Well it gave me something to do last night :)

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 12 Nov 2009 07:39:37
Message: <4afc0209@news.povray.org>
"Stephen" <mca### [at] aolDOTcom> schreef in bericht 
news:4afc000d$1@news.povray.org...
>
> Well it gave me something to do last night :)

Excellent! As they say here "Ledigheid is des duivels oorkussen" which my 
dictionary translates as "Idleness is the parent of vice" or "The devil 
always finds work for idle hands", but somehow I prefer the literal 
translation "idleness is the devil's pillow". :-)

Thomas


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From: Tim Cook
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 12 Nov 2009 08:37:32
Message: <4afc0f9c$1@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Note that the latest version of Poseray puts the uv-mapping code *wrongly*. 
> Older versions did put it in the *right* place. I guess that is why I had 
> not noticed this really before.

Hijacking thread somewhat, and not sure if it's the latest version of 
Poseray or not, but it exports Poser objects incorrectly (it might be a 
setting I have ticked) and requires editing of the .inc file to 
work...namely:

section
//This encapsulates the material into the mesh so that Moray can use the 
original materials
#declare Victoria_4_hip_hip_2_hip__2_SkinHip_=...
(and so forth)

followed by:
//Model assembly from the meshes
#declare Victoria_4_hip_=
union {
object{Victoria_4_hip_hip_2_hip__2_SkinHip_uv_mapping}
object{Victoria_4_hip_rThigh_2_rThigh__2_SkinHip_uv_mapping}
object{Victoria_4_hip_rThigh_2_rThigh__3_SkinLeg_uv_mapping}
object{Victoria_4_hip_lThigh_2_lThigh__2_SkinHip_uv_mapping}
object{Victoria_4_hip_lThigh_2_lThigh__3_SkinLeg_uv_mapping}
split_union off
}

the problem is the fact that it does not declare any objects that end 
with "_uv_mapping", making POV stall.  you have to manually remove the 
"_uv_mapping" from each item in this part.  it doesn't take very long, 
but it is a nuisance that shouldn't be necessary.

--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 12 Nov 2009 08:44:59
Message: <4afc115b$1@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot wrote:
> "Stephen" <mca### [at] aolDOTcom> schreef in bericht 
> news:4afc000d$1@news.povray.org...
>> Well it gave me something to do last night :)
> 
> Excellent! As they say here "Ledigheid is des duivels oorkussen" which my 
> dictionary translates as "Idleness is the parent of vice" or "The devil 
> always finds work for idle hands", but somehow I prefer the literal 
> translation "idleness is the devil's pillow". :-)
> 
Great! I must learn how to pronounce that for when our Dutch colleagues 
complain that I am working them too hard, :)

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 12 Nov 2009 10:58:50
Message: <4afc30ba$1@news.povray.org>
Tim Cook wrote:

> 
> Hijacking thread somewhat, and not sure if it's the latest version of 

[snip]

>  it doesn't take very long, 
> but it is a nuisance that shouldn't be necessary.
> 
> -- 
> Tim Cook
> http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

Not being funny Tim but FlyerX is good at responding to emails and this 
is getting quite a long thread. He might miss what you wrote. Or you 
could start a new thread.


-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Transparant shadow?
Date: 12 Nov 2009 11:10:37
Message: <4afc337d$1@news.povray.org>
"Tim Cook" <z99### [at] gmailcom> schreef in bericht 
news:4afc0f9c$1@news.povray.org...
> Hijacking thread somewhat, and not sure if it's the latest version of 
> Poseray or not, but it exports Poser objects incorrectly (it might be a 
> setting I have ticked) and requires editing of the .inc file to 
> work...namely:
>
> section
> //This encapsulates the material into the mesh so that Moray can use the 
> original materials
> #declare Victoria_4_hip_hip_2_hip__2_SkinHip_=...
> (and so forth)
>
> followed by:
> //Model assembly from the meshes
> #declare Victoria_4_hip_=
> union {
> object{Victoria_4_hip_hip_2_hip__2_SkinHip_uv_mapping}
> object{Victoria_4_hip_rThigh_2_rThigh__2_SkinHip_uv_mapping}
> object{Victoria_4_hip_rThigh_2_rThigh__3_SkinLeg_uv_mapping}
> object{Victoria_4_hip_lThigh_2_lThigh__2_SkinHip_uv_mapping}
> object{Victoria_4_hip_lThigh_2_lThigh__3_SkinLeg_uv_mapping}
> split_union off
> }
>
> the problem is the fact that it does not declare any objects that end with 
> "_uv_mapping", making POV stall.  you have to manually remove the 
> "_uv_mapping" from each item in this part.  it doesn't take very long, but 
> it is a nuisance that shouldn't be necessary.
>

This is indeed to go to the povray.tools.poser newsgroup.

What version of Poseray are you using? I do not get this output with pure 
Poser figures, but Victoria is Daz|Studio, so maybe Poseray incorrectly 
writes from there?

Thomas


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