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After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
that I don't have a grip on this yet.
When drawing and painting, shortcomings are mostly the result of
shortcomings in observing and understanding teh subject, rather than
technical shortcomings with the medium. This is true with this mesh
model also I think. The problems are with the 3d comprehension of what
I am observing more than with the technical issues of making the model.
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download 'ruins.2007.jpg' (86 KB)
Preview of image 'ruins.2007.jpg'
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Looks good enough to me. I have made columns that didn't come close to
including that level of detail in the capital. Curious what type of scene
you will be making with this.
Mike
"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msn com> wrote in message
news:49b07693@news.povray.org...
> After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
> that I don't have a grip on this yet.
>
> When drawing and painting, shortcomings are mostly the result of
> shortcomings in observing and understanding teh subject, rather than
> technical shortcomings with the medium. This is true with this mesh
> model also I think. The problems are with the 3d comprehension of what
> I am observing more than with the technical issues of making the model.
>
Post a reply to this message
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Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
> that I don't have a grip on this yet.
Put one hand on either side of it, and clasp. :-)
> When drawing and painting, shortcomings are mostly the result of
> shortcomings in observing and understanding teh subject, rather than
> technical shortcomings with the medium. This is true with this mesh
> model also I think. The problems are with the 3d comprehension of what
> I am observing more than with the technical issues of making the model.
(Wondering what sorts of problems he might possibly be referring to.)
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Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
> that I don't have a grip on this yet.
OMGWTFYouMustHaveWayTooMuchTime...
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That is freakin killer man!
What program are you modelling in?
ian
"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message
news:49b07693@news.povray.org...
> After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
> that I don't have a grip on this yet.
>
> When drawing and painting, shortcomings are mostly the result of
> shortcomings in observing and understanding teh subject, rather than
> technical shortcomings with the medium. This is true with this mesh
> model also I think. The problems are with the 3d comprehension of what
> I am observing more than with the technical issues of making the model.
>
Post a reply to this message
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Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
> that I don't have a grip on this yet.
>
> When drawing and painting, shortcomings are mostly the result of
> shortcomings in observing and understanding teh subject, rather than
> technical shortcomings with the medium. This is true with this mesh
> model also I think. The problems are with the 3d comprehension of what
> I am observing more than with the technical issues of making the model.
The detail is extraordinary. I really like this piece. Good job.
Post a reply to this message
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Thanks Mike, I am curious about where it is going too. Really it started
that I just wanted to do a ruins motif such as from any European
landscape tradition. In POV I have generally stayed away from landscape
but the ruins thing seemed the entre I needed to try it. Inspired
initially by Thomas's experiments with the theme and by Bill's redesign
of his mesh macros (originally weathered brick macros.)* But w/o
capitals on the columns I wasn't getting to the look I wanted so I
resigned myself that I had to do a capital. Figured as long as I was
doing it, might as well do the Corinthian. Thought also it would be a
platform for experimenting with more weathering techniques.
*Thought of toying with Bill's macros along the lines of using a
multi-step process, for rather than his current 2-step technique, for
aiming the trace rays.
Mike Hough wrote:
> Looks good enough to me. I have made columns that didn't come close to
> including that level of detail in the capital. Curious what type of scene
> you will be making with this.
>
> Mike
>
>
> "Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message
> news:49b07693@news.povray.org...
>
>>After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
>>that I don't have a grip on this yet.
>>
>>When drawing and painting, shortcomings are mostly the result of
>>shortcomings in observing and understanding teh subject, rather than
>>technical shortcomings with the medium. This is true with this mesh
>>model also I think. The problems are with the 3d comprehension of what
>>I am observing more than with the technical issues of making the model.
>>
>
>
>
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Cousin Ricky wrote:
> Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
>
>>After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
>>that I don't have a grip on this yet.
>
>
> Put one hand on either side of it, and clasp. :-)
>
>
>>When drawing and painting, shortcomings are mostly the result of
>>shortcomings in observing and understanding teh subject, rather than
>>technical shortcomings with the medium. This is true with this mesh
>>model also I think. The problems are with the 3d comprehension of what
>>I am observing more than with the technical issues of making the model.
>
>
> (Wondering what sorts of problems he might possibly be referring to.)
>
>
>
Mostly it is the acanthus leaves that are making me crazy. I can't see
to get to a coherent stylization and sense of scale with them that I like.
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clipka wrote:
> Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
>
>>After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
>>that I don't have a grip on this yet.
>
>
> OMGWTFYouMustHaveWayTooMuchTime...
>
>
I might say the same of you! Thanks so much for the radiosity tuts you
did, for instance.
But yeah, these models do take a lot of time. Not just the detail but
the reworking and experimenting with various approaches. How to
'pattern' the polygons within different structures for best smoothing
together with what approach best lets you envision and develop the shape
of the thing.
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[GDS|Entropy] wrote:
> That is freakin killer man!
>
> What program are you modelling in?
>
Thanks!
Wings3D has been my tool since its early releases.
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larryfulkerson wrote:
> Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
>
>>After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
>>that I don't have a grip on this yet.
>>
>>When drawing and painting, shortcomings are mostly the result of
>>shortcomings in observing and understanding teh subject, rather than
>>technical shortcomings with the medium. This is true with this mesh
>>model also I think. The problems are with the 3d comprehension of what
>>I am observing more than with the technical issues of making the model.
>
>
> The detail is extraordinary. I really like this piece. Good job.
>
Thanks Larry.
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Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> In POV I have generally stayed away from landscape
> but the ruins thing seemed the entre I needed to try it.
[snip]
> resigned myself that I had to do a capital. Figured as long as I was
> doing it, might as well do the Corinthian. Thought also it would be a
> platform for experimenting with more weathering techniques.
Something I intend to do soon is to implement a method of weathering more
arbitrary meshes, using the same parameters as my macros. I'm going to try it
out for my current stony WIP. It will involve a 2-step process - firstly, a
small external program to convert, e.g., .obj files to an intermediate format,
then a POV macro to read the vertices and apply the weathering via pigments.
The end result will be exactly the same as the meshrelief macros - a ready-to
use mesh2 that can also be saved in a .inc file.
It strikes me that this could be useful for your capitals. I'll post some
results as I get them...
PS I'm with the others, the example you posted is superb. ;-)
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WOW, just extraordinary.
I have to commend you for 'sticking with' such a detailed object; I would
probably have stopped half-way through and thought, 'Good enough.' To see
someone go that extra mile is always good inspiration--especially for those
times when I get just plain tired of looking at something I'm making and want
to move on. Patience is a virtue, and has its rewards!
Ken W
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Jim Charter wrote:
> After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
> that I don't have a grip on this yet.
>
> When drawing and painting, shortcomings are mostly the result of
> shortcomings in observing and understanding teh subject, rather than
> technical shortcomings with the medium. This is true with this mesh
> model also I think. The problems are with the 3d comprehension of what
> I am observing more than with the technical issues of making the model.
And yet, despite all you say, what I see before me is a great example of
modeling. You should be proud of this work. A scene containing elements
displaying a level of detail such as this should make a fine render indeed.
Sam
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Kenneth wrote:
> WOW, just extraordinary.
>
> I have to commend you for 'sticking with' such a detailed object; I would
> probably have stopped half-way through and thought, 'Good enough.' To see
> someone go that extra mile is always good inspiration--especially for those
> times when I get just plain tired of looking at something I'm making and want
> to move on. Patience is a virtue, and has its rewards!
>
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, I agree, the mental attitude when
modelling is very important. It cannot be hurried in my experience. I
frequently have to step back and shift into a 'lower gear' so to speak.
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stbenge wrote:
> And yet, despite all you say, what I see before me is a great example of
> modeling. You should be proud of this work. A scene containing elements
> displaying a level of detail such as this should make a fine render indeed.
>
Your encouragement means alot to me, Sam. Perhaps it's downhill from
here. Stay tuned for a few more tweaks to the model. As I stated in
the original version, one of the techniques here is that elements of the
whole capital are instanced from 'template' pieces then arranged with
POV SDL.
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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> schreef in bericht
news:49b07693@news.povray.org...
> After much reworking, there are some improvements but I still feel
> that I don't have a grip on this yet.
>
> When drawing and painting, shortcomings are mostly the result of
> shortcomings in observing and understanding teh subject, rather than
> technical shortcomings with the medium. This is true with this mesh
> model also I think. The problems are with the 3d comprehension of what
> I am observing more than with the technical issues of making the model.
>
Yet, this is impressive work. I cannot see any faults with it as there are
different subtle variations in Corinthian capitals. I never attempted this
complexity and remained with the Ionian ones. Again, I am deeply impressed.
Thomas
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Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
> Yet, this is impressive work. I cannot see any faults with it as there are
> different subtle variations in Corinthian capitals. I never attempted this
> complexity and remained with the Ionian ones. Again, I am deeply impressed.
>
Thanks Thomas, yes I will say that apon revisiting some of my reference
photos I see that there is a least one example where the Acanthus are
quite close to the look I have here. I think I do what to make another
pass though and see if I can't get a little more exaggerated look to the
foliage.
-Jim
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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> schreef in bericht
news:49b2e250$1@news.povray.org...
> ... As I stated in the original version, one of the techniques here is
> that elements of the whole capital are instanced from 'template' pieces
> then arranged with POV SDL.
Yes, that is an excellent method. I used it also to build my Didyma temple.
Thomas
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Guuuuuuuh! Very nice.
I remember a day, eight years ago, spent driving around thinking about
how I might structure the triangles of a hand-coded icanthus leaf.
Never got around to trying it.
You should plant yours in a pot and present it without distraction. An
artist would be inclined to look this closely; Your audience might need
some persuasion.
-Shay
Jim Charter wrote:
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Shay wrote:
> Guuuuuuuh! Very nice.
Thanks for the kind words Shay.
>
> I remember a day, eight years ago, spent driving around thinking about
> how I might structure the triangles of a hand-coded icanthus leaf. Never
> got around to trying it.
There is some regularity to their structure which makes this a
tantalizing possiblity. There is also some predictability to how the
stylizations are derived. But ultimately you would have to choose
between styles. And with that much work, you had better like the style
you choose when you finish.
I found those last observations were also relevant when modelling them
in a modeller. And I actually did think of you, and your forays into
font design, when I was doing these and struggling with such choices.
>
> You should plant yours in a pot and present it without distraction. An
> artist would be inclined to look this closely; Your audience might need
> some persuasion.
>
Yes, the acanthus meshes are kind of impressive in themselves. Another
thought was to render as a 'wire' cage with little cylinders joining the
vertices.
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