Hey all, I was just going through my submissions for the TC-RTC and looked 
at this image for the first time in ages. And I'm like: "What? I did that?"

   I'm glad I did look again because I can see that the pistol isn't right 
in the hand. There are other flaws too like the veg is too uniform, rocks 
too uniform, etc.

   But, I'm proud of this image. I remember what I went through to produce 
it, heh.  :)

   Can you spot anywhere else that I need to improve it?  (Your eyes are 
better than mine!)

     If I can, I want to update it. Just looking for other ideas atm.

      ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> Hey all, I was just going through my submissions for the TC-RTC and looked
> at this image for the first time in ages. And I'm like: "What? I did that?"
>
>    I'm glad I did look again because I can see that the pistol isn't right
> in the hand. There are other flaws too like the veg is too uniform, rocks
> too uniform, etc.
>
>    But, I'm proud of this image. I remember what I went through to produce
> it, heh.  :)
>
>    Can you spot anywhere else that I need to improve it?  (Your eyes are
> better than mine!)
>
>      If I can, I want to update it. Just looking for other ideas atm.
>
>       ~Steve~

Been too busy to look. Looks like the victim was hit in the eye, or some
futuristic grav/time warp weapon is about to suck him in, some black hole
developing near right arm.

What am I NOT seeing?

"too uniform" ? probably TOO critical. I dont really see that. When did they
start latheing rifling in the barrels? Before of after these guns? If after,
then someone is too good of a shot for a ballshot that doesnt spin. There are
larger body parts, easier to hit.

2 cents

I think I once said, content is everything and realism over-rated. There was
once a comedy called, How to Murder your Wife. A comic strip writer always went
out and photographed his scenes before drawing up the publication. His readers
knew it, so when they saw scenes of him murdering his wife no one was amused.


What's on your mind? The more you talk about it the less its there.
aQ

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:32:06 +0100, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:

>Hey all, I was just going through my submissions for the TC-RTC and looked 
>at this image for the first time in ages. And I'm like: "What? I did that?"
>
>   I'm glad I did look again because I can see that the pistol isn't right 
>in the hand. There are other flaws too like the veg is too uniform, rocks 
>too uniform, etc.
>
>   But, I'm proud of this image. I remember what I went through to produce 
>it, heh.  :)
>
>   Can you spot anywhere else that I need to improve it?  (Your eyes are 
>better than mine!)
>
>     If I can, I want to update it. Just looking for other ideas atm.
>
>      ~Steve~
>
>
The greenish wound, assuming it is not meant to be gunsmoke, looks
very strange.

Post a reply to this message

Great job!

Post a reply to this message

"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> schreef in bericht news:488ce96f@news.povray.org...
> Hey all, I was just going through my submissions for the TC-RTC and looked 
> at this image for the first time in ages. And I'm like: "What? I did 
> that?"
>
>   I'm glad I did look again because I can see that the pistol isn't right 
> in the hand. There are other flaws too like the veg is too uniform, rocks 
> too uniform, etc.
>
>   But, I'm proud of this image. I remember what I went through to produce 
> it, heh.  :)
>
>   Can you spot anywhere else that I need to improve it?  (Your eyes are 
> better than mine!)
>
>     If I can, I want to update it. Just looking for other ideas atm.
>

Hi Steve,

This scene is incredible because of the time-freezing aspect it shows. It is 
The Matrix, and yet different in a subtle way, with the (slow) motion 
rendered here, and all that in one single stills image.

 That said, there are, of course, the issues you raise. The trigger is not 
pulled, so some repositioning of the fingers is clearly needed. The rocks 
and vegetation need some more variation. The explosion of the opponent's gun 
has a bizarre color, imo, and perhaps you should show more clearly the track 
of the flying gun by redesigning the smoke trail. I suppose that the trail 
should show up more linear and not like a bunch of spherical blobs. Its 
relation with the initial explosion should also be made more obvious.

The conforming clothes may have their own specific issues. Poser 5? The 
creases look a bit synthetic, but that is not too big an issue. I suggest 
you revisit the textures however and look at the normals you use for them. 
The end result is a bit too granular for a cloth. You could try a bump_map 
of a fine weave. I have done that and the result can be very satisfying. 
However, for the fine linen of the shirts, this will probably not do and I 
suggest to leave the normal altogether out for them.

The pose of the gunman in front, is not entirely realistic. Weight should be 
concentrated on his (stretched) left leg, while the right leg should be 
slightly bent, with the foot turned outwards. The hips therefore should be 
slightly tilted to achieve this pose. Try this out youself (in front of a 
mirror). You will see that the present pose is very unconfortable to fire a 
gun accurately  :-)

The position of the witnesses, just behind the firing gun, seems a bit 
awkward. Maybe you should move at least one of them, to the right?

Maybe you could do something about the atmosphere to make it look more like 
dawn (rosy tint?).


Sorry, Steve!! This is quite a lot of comments, not implying criticisms, but 
things that look "wrong" to me, at least. However, I made them because I 
believe that this scene is much worth the improvements, whichever ones you 
select or not. I am looking forwards indeed to the next version.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:

> Can you spot anywhere else that I need to improve it?  (Your eyes are
> better than mine!)
>

The staging is a bit odd, in that the gun is in the middle of the body of a
bystander.  One bystander, meanwhile, has a hand raised that is oddly staged,
almost as if he's hitting the gent next to him.

The pose of the victim is okay, but I don't like the effects of what is
happening around him.  His eye is flashing like the X-Men's Cyclops.  The puffs
of smoke don't exactly line up with what I might expect a bullet to do to a
person.  I'm also not sure that the released gun should be going "up" like
that.

Back to the referee of the duel.  Shouldn't he be between the parties, shouldn't
the parties be a bit further apart? Maybe all this point to how you need to give
us some more breathing room, give us some white space or empty sky.  You've cut
the gun out of the frame!

Hope this helps.  Note that you asked for ways to improve, not a list of the
things we like about it!

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote in message 
news:488ed98d$1@news.povray.org...

   Thomas! Please don't say sorry for that (not so long) answer! I 
appreciate it. That was excellent! I can now see the obvious, but sometimes 
I need help with the 'not-so-obvious'. Dude, (heh, you're a dude now), thank 
you, I can work on that.

   ~Steve~


> Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"fls13" <fls### [at] netzeronet> wrote in message 
news:web.488e55f4c37480db989e735d0@news.povray.org...

> Great job!


  I'm glad you like it, thank you. :)

     ~Steve~

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"john" <joh### [at] worldcom> wrote in message 
news:442s841lt063dpl3jqsvm5h2q104ds3gnv@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:32:06 +0100, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:


> The greenish wound, assuming it is not meant to be gunsmoke, looks
> very strange.

   Yes, I agree, I can see what you're seeing now. It's supposed to be the 
blast from the opponents gun, and then he gets hit and releases the firearm 
into the air. That definately needs working on. Thanks for that.

     ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

"alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message 
news:web.488e016ac37480dbdc0a30e20@news.povray.org...
> "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:


>>    Can you spot anywhere else that I need to improve it?  (Your eyes are
>> better than mine!)
>>
>>      If I can, I want to update it. Just looking for other ideas atm.

> Been too busy to look. Looks like the victim was hit in the eye, or some
> futuristic grav/time warp weapon is about to suck him in, some black hole
> developing near right arm.

    Heh, :) well, if you look closely, that's the shadow of his head on his 
right shoulder. The top-hat confirms the sun's position too. ;)

>
> What am I NOT seeing?
>
> "too uniform" ? probably TOO critical. I dont really see that. When did 
> they
> start latheing rifling in the barrels? Before of after these guns? If 
> after,
> then someone is too good of a shot for a ballshot that doesnt spin. There 
> are
> larger body parts, easier to hit.

   Well, true. But there is always the lucky shot, (and I think this is the 
case in the actual book. The chap in front is supposed to be a true newbie 
with firearms, but get's lucky in the fog).


>
> 2 cents
>
> I think I once said, content is everything and realism over-rated. There 
> was
> once a comedy called, How to Murder your Wife. A comic strip writer always 
> went
> out and photographed his scenes before drawing up the publication. His 
> readers
> knew it, so when they saw scenes of him murdering his wife no one was 
> amused.

     I think I watched a film just like that many years ago, but haven't 
seen it since. He took a picture (the photographer, obviously), of someone 
<girl> for a commercial shot in a public park, and then when he developed 
the image, he saw a dead body in the background behind a bush I believe. Old 
film, but good film. Can't remember what it was called though, unless it's 
the same film you're on about.


>
>
> What's on your mind? The more you talk about it the less its there.

     You mean, get on with it? Heh, I'm trying to! ;)

       ~Steve~




> aQ
>

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St. nous illumina en ce 2008-07-29 14:16 -->
> "john" <joh### [at] worldcom> wrote in message 
> news:442s841lt063dpl3jqsvm5h2q104ds3gnv@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:32:06 +0100, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>> The greenish wound, assuming it is not meant to be gunsmoke, looks
>> very strange.
> 
>    Yes, I agree, I can see what you're seeing now. It's supposed to be the 
> blast from the opponents gun, and then he gets hit and releases the firearm 
> into the air. That definately needs working on. Thanks for that.
> 
>      ~Steve~
> 
>  
> 
> 
In that case, the blast should be gray, with maybe a hint of red, not green! 
Same with the smoke from the winner's gun: it should be mostly gray, with only a 
narrow setreak of red/orange near the barel's end.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead.
Thomas Jefferson

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"Alain" <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote in message 
news:488f7d20$1@news.povray.org...
> St. nous illumina en ce 2008-07-29 14:16 -->
>> "john" <joh### [at] worldcom> wrote in message 
>> news:442s841lt063dpl3jqsvm5h2q104ds3gnv@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:32:06 +0100, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The greenish wound, assuming it is not meant to be gunsmoke, looks
>>> very strange.

> In that case, the blast should be gray, with maybe a hint of red, not 
> green! Same with the smoke from the winner's gun: it should be mostly 
> gray, with only a narrow setreak of red/orange near the barel's end.


Yes, you know something Alain, I've never said this before, but I'm colour 
blind. I always have been with green and brown apparently. This is the first 
time in my life that I've realised that it's a problem. I'll have to keep a 
careful watch on my colours from now on!

   Thanks for the tips. :)

      ~Steve~



>
> -- 
> Alain
> -------------------------------------------------
> For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead.
> Thomas Jefferson

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> schreef in bericht news:48901b62$1@news.povray.org...
>
>
> Yes, you know something Alain, I've never said this before, but I'm colour 
> blind. I always have been with green and brown apparently. This is the 
> first time in my life that I've realised that it's a problem. I'll have to 
> keep a careful watch on my colours from now on!
>

Hey, that explains the green blast, Steve. Interestingly, this is a 
tell-tale case where red is switched to green.

I had a colour blind colleague who made horribly tinted maps and pie charts. 
Well, to our non-colour blind eyes, of course... :-)  We used to tease him 
about it, in good humour, and had some interesting discussions about 
consequences and differences in looking at the world.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

St. nous illumina en ce 2008-07-30 03:42 -->
> "Alain" <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote in message 
> news:488f7d20$1@news.povray.org...
>> St. nous illumina en ce 2008-07-29 14:16 -->
>>> "john" <joh### [at] worldcom> wrote in message 
>>> news:442s841lt063dpl3jqsvm5h2q104ds3gnv@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:32:06 +0100, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The greenish wound, assuming it is not meant to be gunsmoke, looks
>>>> very strange.
> 
>> In that case, the blast should be gray, with maybe a hint of red, not 
>> green! Same with the smoke from the winner's gun: it should be mostly 
>> gray, with only a narrow setreak of red/orange near the barel's end.
> 
> 
> Yes, you know something Alain, I've never said this before, but I'm colour 
> blind. I always have been with green and brown apparently. This is the first 
> time in my life that I've realised that it's a problem. I'll have to keep a 
> careful watch on my colours from now on!
> 
>    Thanks for the tips. :)
> 
>       ~Steve~
> 
> 
> 
>> -- 
>> Alain
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead.
>> Thomas Jefferson 
> 
> 
That explain the pecularties of your image. Changing it to gray scale qives a 
very nice result.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear
arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in
government.
Thomas Jefferson

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> schreef in bericht news:488f5e8b@news.povray.org...
>
>   Well, true. But there is always the lucky shot, (and I think this is the 
> case in the actual book. The chap in front is supposed to be a true newbie 
> with firearms, but get's lucky in the fog).
>

This has implications for the pose of the chap in front, Steve  :-)
If he is a newbie, his pose should reflect something of unease, nervousness, 
or awkwardness. In the present scene, he looks very cool and master of 
himself. It may not be very easy to achieve, however.

Something else I have been thinking about. The gun should show some measure 
of backlash, especially if the guy is a newbie! So, I believe, the gun 
should be pointing upwards.

And what about the same guy flinching away from the bullet whizzing past his 
head and hitting his hat? However, that may be occurring in the next split 
second of the drama...

Looking even more closely, the path of the bullet should be a bit higher in 
order to hit the hat. It now passes just a bit too low to do that 
effectively.

Looking again at your scene, I believe there is an interesting conundrum of 
time travel paradox, or maybe of multiverses... :-)
Consider this:
T+0: the guns are fired, we assume simultaneously;
T+1: bullets respectively whizzes pas A and hits B in the eye;
T+2: Backlash of A's gun; B's gun starts to be pulled up;
T+3: A flinches away from the bullet; B starts to fall backwards;
T+4: B rotates around his axis while falling and sends the gun in an arc;
etc...

Do you see what I mean: Your image shows different time frames condensed 
into the same moment!  ;-)   This is not a problem, but it is an interesting 
notion...

Thomas

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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote in message 
news:48917d0a$1@news.povray.org...
>
> "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> schreef in bericht news:488f5e8b@news.povray.org...
>>
>>   Well, true. But there is always the lucky shot, (and I think this is 
>> the case in the actual book. The chap in front is supposed to be a true 
>> newbie with firearms, but get's lucky in the fog).
>>
>
> This has implications for the pose of the chap in front, Steve  :-)
> If he is a newbie, his pose should reflect something of unease, 
> nervousness, or awkwardness. In the present scene, he looks very cool and 
> master of himself. It may not be very easy to achieve, however.
>
<snip>

> Do you see what I mean: Your image shows different time frames condensed 
> into the same moment!  ;-)   This is not a problem, but it is an 
> interesting notion...

    WOW! I'm being spoiled! :o) What a great (and correct) way of looking at 
the scene Thomas! I have to say that I never even considered any of these 
suggestions. All I was aiming for, ;) was an easily recognisable stance with 
the dueling men, but yes, I can see you're right on the button with your 
suggestions, Thomas. Thanks.

    I won't be working on this just yet, but the goal is to get a nice print 
of the image. :)

      ~Steve~


>
> Thomas
>
>

Post a reply to this message

"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> schreef in bericht news:48928f33$1@news.povray.org...
>

>    WOW! I'm being spoiled! :o) What a great (and correct) way of looking 
> at the scene Thomas! I have to say that I never even considered any of 
> these suggestions. All I was aiming for, ;) was an easily recognisable 
> stance with the dueling men, but yes, I can see you're right on the button 
> with your suggestions, Thomas. Thanks.

You are welcome, Steve :-)
You are in luck too. I do not always have ideas coming up so readily. This 
does not mean that your scene is bad, on the contrary, I suppose it means 
that it is intriguing enough to suggest instinctively all kinds of 
interesting questions.

>
>    I won't be working on this just yet, but the goal is to get a nice 
> print of the image. :)

Excellent.

Thomas

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On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:16:19 +0100, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:

>
>     I think I watched a film just like that many years ago, but haven't 
>seen it since. He took a picture (the photographer, obviously), of someone 
><girl> for a commercial shot in a public park, and then when he developed 
>the image, he saw a dead body in the background behind a bush I believe. Old 
>film, but good film. Can't remember what it was called though, unless it's 
>the same film you're on about.
>

Was it Blow-up?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowup

 
I like Thomas's comments about concating the time frames. As your eye travels
from right to left you are moving forward in time. Nice!
Some comments:
The victim should spin backwards and to his right.
If you used Poser for the models and clothes. Then you should redo the shirts in
the clothes room to make them less stiff.
I've also got some BVH (motion) files that might be of use for posing someone
shot.
There seems to be a red sphere where the shadow of the hat meets the victors
head.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen nous illumina en ce 2008-08-03 03:56 -->
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:16:19 +0100, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> 
>>     I think I watched a film just like that many years ago, but haven't 
>> seen it since. He took a picture (the photographer, obviously), of someone 
>> <girl> for a commercial shot in a public park, and then when he developed 
>> the image, he saw a dead body in the background behind a bush I believe. Old 
>> film, but good film. Can't remember what it was called though, unless it's 
>> the same film you're on about.
>>
> 
> Was it Blow-up?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowup
> 
>  
Yes, Blow-out. A little surreal. I liked a comment from the photograph after his 
girl friend told him: "Don't you see?", "I don't see, I look!"

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
Beam me up Scotty. There aint no inteligent life down here.

Post a reply to this message

"Stephen" <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> wrote in message 
news:a3pa949i76ra8slla4htrqo4a5jlun33h0@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:16:19 +0100, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:

> Was it Blow-up?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowup

   YES!! That's the one! Thanks Stephen. :) I've only seen it once when I 
were a young laad. ;) I thought it was a good idea for a film back then.


>
>
> I like Thomas's comments about concating the time frames. As your eye 
> travels
> from right to left you are moving forward in time. Nice!
> Some comments:
> The victim should spin backwards and to his right.
> If you used Poser for the models and clothes. Then you should redo the 
> shirts in
> the clothes room to make them less stiff.
> I've also got some BVH (motion) files that might be of use for posing 
> someone
> shot.
> There seems to be a red sphere where the shadow of the hat meets the 
> victors
> head.

    Heh, I think that's his hairband to hold his pony-tail in ship-shape 
fashion. (Is that it?)

     Thanks for the tips, seems like I've got a lot of work to do! ;)

     ~Steve~

      www.tc-rtc.co.uk


> -- 
>
> Regards
>     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 12:23:35 -0400, Alain <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote:

>Yes, Blow-out. A little surreal. I liked a comment from the photograph after his 
>girl friend told him: "Don't you see?", "I don't see, I look!"

It was the pretentious sixties after all :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 18:10:51 +0100, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:

And do you remember "The Knack …and How to Get It"? form the same time.

>    Heh, I think that's his hairband to hold his pony-tail in ship-shape 
>fashion. (Is that it?)

Big girl's blouse :)

And it's Ship shape and Bristol fashion

>     Thanks for the tips, seems like I've got a lot of work to do! ;)

The devil makes work… and all that :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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