This is my final render of the Eavesdropping scene. Radiosity is used, as 
well as Lightsys, and a number of things have been changed since the last 
wip. I rendered is two passes. For the second one, I subdivided the image in 
twenty tiles of 100x400 pixels and rendered those separately (render time 
for each between 1 and 2 hours) and reassembled the image gradually. The 
only reason I did this was to use my PC more efficiently and not have to 
reparse the whole image each time after I would restart the render.
This final version could probably use a somewhat finer aa and radiosity 
settings. However, I am content with the image as is and want to go on with 
other scenes.

Nonetheless, comments are always welcome of course!

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'Eavesdropping final.jpg' (109 KB)

Preview of image 'Eavesdropping final.jpg'

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> However, I am content with the image as is and want to go on with
> other scenes.
>

I would be content if I had rendered this too. :-)

It is really good and I like where you have put Cathy and her wee brother.
They now add to the scene rather than distract.

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Very good work, I specially like everything... :)

BTW, I'm really waiting for your next scene!

--
Jaime

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> a écrit dans le message de 
news: 46d42a2c@news.povray.org...
>
> Nonetheless, comments are always welcome of course!
>
Astounding!
Now you're done with the cover, you just have to write the novel ;-)

Marc

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote in message 
news:46d42a2c@news.povray.org...
> This is my final render of the Eavesdropping scene. Radiosity is used, as 
> well as Lightsys, and a number of things have been changed since the last 
> wip. I rendered is two passes. For the second one, I subdivided the image 
> in twenty tiles of 100x400 pixels and rendered those separately (render 
> time for each between 1 and 2 hours) and reassembled the image gradually. 
> The only reason I did this was to use my PC more efficiently and not have 
> to reparse the whole image each time after I would restart the render.
> This final version could probably use a somewhat finer aa and radiosity 
> settings. However, I am content with the image as is and want to go on 
> with other scenes.

I really must explore lightsys as I haven't done as well with lighting as 
I'd like. I've come to realize that proper lighting is probably the biggest 
contributor to overall scene quality. You've done a fantastic job! I 
especially like how some of the objects and people are partly in light and 
partly in shadow.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

It's a great scene, congratulations!!!

The column shadow that slashes across the middle of the screen has still
edges that are blurrier than the others. ;-)

Post a reply to this message

It looks fantastic Thomas! I think the lighting is really great on this one.
And a very nice job on all those clothes. :)

Janet

Post a reply to this message

"Grassblade" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht 
news:web.46d48ae38fd31a74eb7721c00@news.povray.org...
> It's a great scene, congratulations!!!

Thank you!!
>
> The column shadow that slashes across the middle of the screen has still
> edges that are blurrier than the others. ;-)

That is also what you see in RL. Look at the shadow of a tree in sunshine: 
the shadow is sharpest at the base of the tree and gets more diffuse towards 
the end of the shadow.
In this image there is an interplay between soft shadows (from more distant 
columns) and - for instance - the sharp shadow of the package in the middle 
ground.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Janet" <par### [at] attnet> schreef in bericht 
news:web.46d4e4788fd31a74591136770@news.povray.org...
> It looks fantastic Thomas! I think the lighting is really great on this 
> one.
> And a very nice job on all those clothes. :)
>
Thank you Janet!
An interesting point with dynamic clothes is that you can use them 
indiscriminately (almost) with different figures with different morphologies 
and with minimal effort. So, the same shalwar (trousers) is used for 
Iskander hiding behind the column, Adamastor talking to the Rais, and the 
boy half hid behind the wall. That could not be done as easily with 
conforming clothes I think. Only for the Rais, who is suffering from a bit 
of obesity, did I make a different garment  :-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Jim Holsenback" <jho### [at] hotmailcom> schreef in bericht 
news:46d457cc@news.povray.org...
>
> I really must explore lightsys as I haven't done as well with lighting as 
> I'd like. I've come to realize that proper lighting is probably the 
> biggest contributor to overall scene quality. You've done a fantastic job! 
> I especially like how some of the objects and people are partly in light 
> and partly in shadow.
>

Thank you indeed :-)

Yes, lighting is extremely important and, deriving from that, the way 
objects and figures interact with the light. Sometimes it comes easily, but 
generally I spend a lot of time to arrange things to my liking. In this 
particular case, I believe the lighting contributes a lot to the dramatic 
effect. I have been a fanatic amateur Black/White photographer for many 
years in the past and it learned me a lot about light.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"M_a_r_c" <jac### [at] wanadoofr> schreef in bericht 
news:46d442b5$1@news.povray.org...
>
> "Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> a écrit dans le message de 
> news: 46d42a2c@news.povray.org...
>>
>> Nonetheless, comments are always welcome of course!
>>
> Astounding!

Thank you Marc :-)

> Now you're done with the cover, you just have to write the novel ;-)
I have pieces of story playing through my mind. I am afraid however, that 
like Gille's Livre des Commencements, the bits and pieces will remain 
tantalizingly unfinished  :-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Jaime Vives Piqueres" <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> schreef in bericht 
news:46d43c38$1@news.povray.org...
> Very good work, I specially like everything... :)
>
> BTW, I'm really waiting for your next scene!
>

Thank you very much indeed, Jaime!
The next scene(s) will arrive in due time. Different pots are cooking at 
this moment.

One thing I am sure you can help me with is this: How can you change the 
horizon color in Lightsys? I have looked through the files but could not 
really make sense of the item. I suppose that it is not only the result of 
the interaction between the light and the skysphere.
In my image, the effect (which I like btw)  has been a bit increased by the 
fact that I gave the ground fog the same color as the horizon.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht 
news:web.46d4382d8fd31a74c4e49fa40@news.povray.org...
> "Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
>> However, I am content with the image as is and want to go on with
>> other scenes.
>>
>
> I would be content if I had rendered this too. :-)
Thank you indeed, Stephen!!

>
> It is really good and I like where you have put Cathy and her wee brother.
> They now add to the scene rather than distract.
Yes, and thank you for bringing the point forward. That empty corner had 
been nagging me for a long time and I am happy with the result now.

Thomas

[PS/o.t.: back to New Mars now...]

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:

>
> [PS/o.t.: back to New Mars now...]

New Mars? Have I missed something?

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht 
news:web.46d531468fd31a74c4e49fa40@news.povray.org...
> "Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
>
>>
>> [PS/o.t.: back to New Mars now...]
>
> New Mars? Have I missed something?
>

No :-) Just reading on in The Stone Canal...

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> "Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht
> news:web.46d531468fd31a74c4e49fa40@news.povray.org...
> > "Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> [PS/o.t.: back to New Mars now...]
> >
> > New Mars? Have I missed something?
> >
>
> No :-) Just reading on in The Stone Canal...
>
> Thomas

Duh! <blush> I knew it sounded familiar

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Another great image from yourself Thomas. Well worth following the progress, 
and well worth seeing the end result.  :)

   ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot wrote:
> One thing I am sure you can help me with is this: How can you change the 
> horizon color in Lightsys? I have looked through the files but could not 
> really make sense of the item. I suppose that it is not only the result of 
> the interaction between the light and the skysphere.
> In my image, the effect (which I like btw)  has been a bit increased by the 
> fact that I gave the ground fog the same color as the horizon.

   Well, the expert here would be Philippe Debar, but AFAIK, the horizon 
color is the result of the skylight simulation: it changes automatically 
depending on the sky conditions (azimuth, altitude, turbidity, etc...), so 
you can't alter the final color without changing somewhat the whole 
implementation.

   BTW, I almost only use it for the same purpose you stated: ground fog.


--
Jaime

Post a reply to this message

"Jaime Vives Piqueres" <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> schreef in bericht 
news:46d674ea@news.povray.org...
>
>   Well, the expert here would be Philippe Debar, but AFAIK, the horizon 
> color is the result of the skylight simulation: it changes automatically 
> depending on the sky conditions (azimuth, altitude, turbidity, etc...), so 
> you can't alter the final color without changing somewhat the whole 
> implementation.

Yes, this is what I thought. In fact, that is excellent! Thank you for 
confirming this.

>
>   BTW, I almost only use it for the same purpose you stated: ground fog.
Indeed. It makes a perfect match.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> schreef in bericht news:46d5a16c$1@news.povray.org...
> Another great image from yourself Thomas. Well worth following the 
> progress, and well worth seeing the end result.  :)
>

Thank you indeed, Steve!

There is a lot to learn from the comments on progress images and one should 
not be shy to show imperfect and unfinished work (Hear! Hear!). Most of my 
achievements have come through comments on this forum. For which I thank 
everybody  :-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

This really is excellent.

I appreciate your comments about moving forwards from comments on WIP
images, but I feel I've missed out on the impact that this amazing final
version will have on the newcomer. It reminds me of how film trailers show
all the most spectacular bits, or indeed major plot twists... ;-)

That sentiment aside, I especially like the final poses and clothing - small
differences, some might say, but worth every man-hour. Great work, I too
look forward to your next creation!

Bill

Post a reply to this message

"Bill Pragnell" <bil### [at] hotmailcom> schreef in bericht 
news:web.46d68fd78fd31a74731f01d10@news.povray.org...
> This really is excellent.

Thank you Bill!!!

>
> I appreciate your comments about moving forwards from comments on WIP
> images, but I feel I've missed out on the impact that this amazing final
> version will have on the newcomer. It reminds me of how film trailers show
> all the most spectacular bits, or indeed major plot twists... ;-)

I believe you have a point there. However, it is rather unavoidable, isn't 
it? Especially in an image like this where wips for the temple for instance 
go back at least 4 years, and 1 year for the first figures version. It 
certainly is true that one tends to forget that each image starts rather 
schematically, and that is not always shown. I generally keep an example 
image during the creation process of each relevant phase, but that has more 
an archive value of the creation process than an 'educative' one.

>
> That sentiment aside, I especially like the final poses and clothing - 
> small
> differences, some might say, but worth every man-hour. Great work, I too
> look forward to your next creation!

Thank you again. I admit that I enjoy Poser and its possibilities, and it so 
happens that it corresponds nicely with my personal aspirations in the kind 
of scenes I want to create. It is a very, very long-time aspiration that is 
finally emerging now.


Thomas

Post a reply to this message

An epic composition.  Wonderful in many ways, including failing to trigger
one of my pet peeves by actually using semi-transparent water.


"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:

Post a reply to this message

"gregjohn" <pte### [at] yahoocom> schreef in bericht 
news:web.46d6b61f8fd31a7434d207310@news.povray.org...
> An epic composition.  Wonderful in many ways, including failing to trigger
> one of my pet peeves by actually using semi-transparent water.
>

Thank you!
Forgive my ignorance: what is this pet peeves...?

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> "gregjohn" <pte### [at] yahoocom> schreef in bericht
> news:web.46d6b61f8fd31a7434d207310@news.povray.org...
> > An epic composition.  Wonderful in many ways, including failing to trigger
> > one of my pet peeves by actually using semi-transparent water.
> >
>
> Thank you!
> Forgive my ignorance: what is this pet peeves...?
>
> Thomas

A Peeve is something that anoys you. And a Pet Peeve is a Peeve that lives
with you :-)

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht 
news:web.46d6e1b28fd31a74c4e49fa40@news.povray.org...
> A Peeve is something that anoys you. And a Pet Peeve is a Peeve that lives
> with you :-)
>

Oh dear! I hope it is not contagious??  :-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> "Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht
> news:web.46d6e1b28fd31a74c4e49fa40@news.povray.org...
> > A Peeve is something that anoys you. And a Pet Peeve is a Peeve that lives
> > with you :-)
> >
>
> Oh dear! I hope it is not contagious??  :-)
>
> Thomas

No! Everyone’s given a set at birth but not all of them develop into mature
Peeves. Some grow into full blown Scunners.

Another tale from the land o’ the Wee People :-)


Stephen

Post a reply to this message

> Another tale from the land o' the Wee People :-)
Reminds me of Xanth.  Very entertaining that land of puns.
http://www.amazon.com/Pet-Peeve-Xanth-Piers-Anthony/dp/0765343118/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-0448289-0361402?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188553217&sr=8-1

Post a reply to this message

"Tim Attwood" <tim### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > Another tale from the land o' the Wee People :-)
> Reminds me of Xanth.  Very entertaining that land of puns.
>
http://www.amazon.com/Pet-Peeve-Xanth-Piers-Anthony/dp/0765343118/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-0448289-0361402?ie=UTF8&s=books
&qid=1188553217&sr=8-1

So it does, I don’t think that I’ve read that one, I lost track a few years
ago.

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht 
news:web.46d7ca588fd31a74c4e49fa40@news.povray.org...
>
> No! Everyone's given a set at birth but not all of them develop into 
> mature
> Peeves. Some grow into full blown Scunners.
>
> Another tale from the land o' the Wee People :-)
>

Well... that's something I have been totally unaware of  :-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot wrote:
> 

Come on. This is worth a larger, better AA render. Don't leave it just yet.

The kids take away from it, IMO, but a very nice picture.

 -Shay

Post a reply to this message

"Shay" <shay@s.s> schreef in bericht news:46d82467@news.povray.org...
>
> Come on. This is worth a larger, better AA render. Don't leave it just 
> yet.

Yes I know, and I mentioned it too.  :-(
I probably shall do one later, but for now I want to concentrate first on 
some other work. I don't like to have the machine working overnight, so that 
I can keep an eye on the progress and interfere at once when necessary.

>
> The kids take away from it, IMO, but a very nice picture.

Well, it is a matter of taste I think. Personally, I do like them there.
Thanks by the way, for your always much appreciated comments!

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot wrote:

>> Shay:
>> The kids take away from it, IMO, but a very nice picture.

> Well, it is a matter of taste I think. Personally, I do like
> them there.

Yes, a matter of taste. For the purpose of discussion, I'll expand just
a bit on my tastes and what I mean by "take away from it."

I have a problem with most big-budget films. A massive audience is
required to make back the money spent on these films. This massive
audience is too often built by designing big-budget films to attract
several disparate groups. Therefore, where a small independent film
might be about a Iskander's discovery of a valuable piece of
information, the big budget counterpart would be about Iskander's
discovery of a valuable piece of information; a crusty-but-benign police
lieutenant who's always getting heat from the commissioner; a
hard-nosed, hard-drinking detective who thinks women belong in the
kitchen; the brilliant and beautiful young girl cop who's fighting the
feminist battle on the force; a hair raising boat chase; and two "gosh
darn kids" who foil an evil plot against Iskander.

Looking at your picture, I am intensely interested in what information
Iskander is hearing and to what use he will put it. I know the kids are
part of the story and dread the point at which the plot will shift away
to their role in events. For the same reason, I can't watch a movie like
"Braveheart" or "The Patriot" more than once - too uneven in tone. Some
love these types of laugh-cry-cheer-sigh epic movies. Yes, a matter of
taste.

 -Shay

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot wrote:
> This is my final render of the Eavesdropping scene. 

Beautiful scene Thomas.  Artists capable of full-fledged, complex scenes 
are not extinct afterall!  It's quite an accomplishment.  And you have 
updated the enterprise to include the latests techniques available in 
Poser.

Post a reply to this message

Shay wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
> 
>>> Shay:
>>> The kids take away from it, IMO, but a very nice picture.
> 
>> Well, it is a matter of taste I think. Personally, I do like
>> them there.
> 
> Yes, a matter of taste. For the purpose of discussion, I'll expand just
> a bit on my tastes and what I mean by "take away from it."
> 
> I have a problem with most big-budget films. A massive audience is
> required to make back the money spent on these films. This massive
> audience is too often built by designing big-budget films to attract
> several disparate groups. Therefore, where a small independent film
> might be about a Iskander's discovery of a valuable piece of
> information, the big budget counterpart would be about Iskander's
> discovery of a valuable piece of information; a crusty-but-benign police
> lieutenant who's always getting heat from the commissioner; a
> hard-nosed, hard-drinking detective who thinks women belong in the
> kitchen; the brilliant and beautiful young girl cop who's fighting the
> feminist battle on the force; a hair raising boat chase; and two "gosh
> darn kids" who foil an evil plot against Iskander.
> 
> Looking at your picture, I am intensely interested in what information
> Iskander is hearing and to what use he will put it. I know the kids are
> part of the story and dread the point at which the plot will shift away
> to their role in events.

Interesting, I didn't assume that the kids would be part of the story. 
For me their presence enhances the sense or naturality. Without them it 
would be a stealth meeting at a time when nobody else is there or at a 
deserted place, and someone spying in the first degree. With them it is 
just some scene in a busy harbour and someone, possibly even 
accidentally, listening in.

> For the same reason, I can't watch a movie like
> "Braveheart" or "The Patriot" more than once - too uneven in tone. Some
> love these types of laugh-cry-cheer-sigh epic movies. Yes, a matter of
> taste.
> 
>  -Shay

BTW, Thomas I like this scene with all its attention to details. I 
didn't respond earlier because I though I had nothing to add to the 
others. Now it is the 'final' one I should perhaps express my appreciation.

Post a reply to this message

"Shay" <shay@s.s> schreef in bericht news:46d844e5$1@news.povray.org...
>
> Yes, a matter of taste. For the purpose of discussion, I'll expand just
> a bit on my tastes and what I mean by "take away from it."
>
> I have a problem with most big-budget films. A massive audience is
> required to make back the money spent on these films. This massive
> audience is too often built by designing big-budget films to attract
> several disparate groups. Therefore, where a small independent film
> might be about a Iskander's discovery of a valuable piece of
> information, the big budget counterpart would be about Iskander's
> discovery of a valuable piece of information; a crusty-but-benign police
> lieutenant who's always getting heat from the commissioner; a
> hard-nosed, hard-drinking detective who thinks women belong in the
> kitchen; the brilliant and beautiful young girl cop who's fighting the
> feminist battle on the force; a hair raising boat chase; and two "gosh
> darn kids" who foil an evil plot against Iskander.
>
> Looking at your picture, I am intensely interested in what information
> Iskander is hearing and to what use he will put it. I know the kids are
> part of the story and dread the point at which the plot will shift away
> to their role in events. For the same reason, I can't watch a movie like
> "Braveheart" or "The Patriot" more than once - too uneven in tone. Some
> love these types of laugh-cry-cheer-sigh epic movies. Yes, a matter of
> taste.
>

I fully agree with what you say. More, I feel exactly like you!  :-)
However, in the present scene, the kids are part of the story's 'landscape', 
not of the plot. In another scene I have in mind, they will reappear, but 
again, only as witnesses of something going on, in the same way that the 
'observer' (you, me) is a witness to the action.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"andrel" <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> schreef in bericht 
news:46D### [at] hotmailcom...
>
> Interesting, I didn't assume that the kids would be part of the story. For 
> me their presence enhances the sense or naturality. Without them it would 
> be a stealth meeting at a time when nobody else is there or at a deserted 
> place, and someone spying in the first degree. With them it is just some 
> scene in a busy harbour and someone, possibly even accidentally, listening 
> in.

Yes, that is the idea.

>
> BTW, Thomas I like this scene with all its attention to details. I didn't 
> respond earlier because I though I had nothing to add to the others. Now 
> it is the 'final' one I should perhaps express my appreciation.

Thank you indeed, Andrel. I am glad you like it  :-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> schreef in bericht 
news:46d85954$1@news.povray.org...
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> This is my final render of the Eavesdropping scene.
>
> Beautiful scene Thomas.  Artists capable of full-fledged, complex scenes 
> are not extinct afterall!  It's quite an accomplishment.  And you have 
> updated the enterprise to include the latests techniques available in 
> Poser.

Oh, thank you indeed, Jim! Your words make me think of the great epic 
paintings so representative of the 19th century (Delacroix for instance, and 
the Orientalism-oriented school; and not to forget: Ilya Repin or the 
Wyeth's). I certainly cannot deny humble inspiration from those and later 
artists. After all, they are part of the cultural substrate with which I was 
brought up. As well, I should say, as some literary sources, one of which 
is - I have the impression - mostly forgotten nowadays: Wilhelm Hauff.

I think I have said this already somewhere, but Poser has been a revelation 
to me, giving me the tools I needed to give life to scenes that have haunted 
me since my youth. I am a poor drawer, and even worse painter, but with 
POV-Ray, Poser, and a couple of other fantastic tools, I am able to overcome 
that :-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Just thought I'd drop by to say I really like this Thomas, well done!

Post a reply to this message

"scam" <sca### [at] mailusydeduau> schreef in bericht 
news:web.46da3bfc8fd31a74e43b92be0@news.povray.org...
> Just thought I'd drop by to say I really like this Thomas, well done!
>

Thank you indeed! Much appreciated.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message