This last week, I've been trying to model a morilia viridis: a python.

The final image is supposed to be a present for a friend of mine, even 
though I'm having trouble nailing down its look and it doesn't look like 
it'll be finished in time...

I'm considering displacement-painting to add some detail (like scales) 
to the snakes, but more in combination with a normal than painting it 
onto the entire snake. It's also (obviously) missing colors, I'm 
wondering if I should go for something realistic, or altogether more 
colorful and expressionistic, as that is something she'd like...

Well, if anyone has suggestions, feel free to blurt them out. :-)

Regards,
Tim

-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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It's snakes!  On a plane!

-- 
Tim Cook
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-empyrean

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GFA dpu- s: a?-- C++(++++) U P? L E--- W++(+++)>$
N++ o? K- w(+) O? M-(--) V? PS+(+++) PE(--) Y(--)
PGP-(--) t* 5++>+++++ X+ R* tv+ b++(+++) DI
D++(---) G(++) e*>++ h+ !r--- !y--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Tim Cook wrote:
> It's snakes!  On a plane!

Sheesh, I should have expected that one...  ;-)


-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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"Tim Nikias" <JUS### [at] gmxnetWARE> wrote in message 
news:45c25e1c@news.povray.org...
> This last week, I've been trying to model a morilia viridis: a python.

     Looking good Tim! You could try the attached image as a bump_map. This 
is what I used on my Orobous snake.

     texture {your texture/pigment}

      normal {
      bump_map {
         jpeg "snake_tex4.jpg"
         bump_size 1
         interpolate 2
        map_type 3}
        scale .47   rotate <0, 40, 0>}
        finish {ambient  -.055 phong .5 }}

       You may want to UV map the head or the body so as to be able to 
distinguish between them in your final image - the heads of snakes tend to 
have larger scaly patterns above the eyes and down to the nostrils.


       ~Steve~

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Tim Nikias <JUS### [at] gmxnetWARE> wrote:
> I'm wondering if I should go for something realistic, or altogether more
> colorful and expressionistic, as that is something she'd like...
>
> Well, if anyone has suggestions, feel free to blurt them out. :-)
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> --
> aka "Tim Nikias"
> Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

Well Tim, if you know that she would like something colourful then do that
thing :-)
I do like the snakes and think that they would look great with a realistic
texture. The modelling is exemplary BTW.


Stephen

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"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> wrote:

> Well Tim, if you know that she would like something colourful then do that
> thing :-)
> I do like the snakes and think that they would look great with a realistic
> texture. The modelling is exemplary BTW.
>

I agree, I would like to see them realistic but you should probably go with
what your friend would like most.. Then if you are bored do a realistic one
for us to gawp at..

Sean

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St. wrote:
>      Looking good Tim! You could try the attached image as a bump_map. This 
> is what I used on my Orobous snake.

Thanks for the bump-map, I might even use it directly for displacement, 
as Silo supports brushes.

>        You may want to UV map the head or the body so as to be able to 
> distinguish between them in your final image - the heads of snakes tend to 
> have larger scaly patterns above the eyes and down to the nostrils.

Yeah, the reference images I had showed that. I was thinking about 
manual displacement painting of the scales near the mouth, nostrils and 
eyes, and then use some cleverly faded pigment_map for some bump-mapping 
on the remaining parts of the snake.

As for distinguishing between the two, I'll have to see how much work it 
is for one snake, otherwise, color differences have to suffice.

Regards,
Tim

-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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Stephen wrote:
> Well Tim, if you know that she would like something colourful then do that
> thing :-)

Aiming for it. ;-)

> I do like the snakes and think that they would look great with a realistic
> texture. 

I'm trying to get there as well, closing in on the parallel approach to 
realistic vs colorful, I guess Steve's bumpmap might be helpful for that.

 > The modelling is exemplary BTW.

Thanks for the praise, continuous refinement over the last week, I'm not 
a born modeller. ;-)

Regards,
Tim


-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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s.day wrote:
> "Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> wrote:
> 
>> Well Tim, if you know that she would like something colourful then do that
>> thing :-)
>> I do like the snakes and think that they would look great with a realistic
>> texture. The modelling is exemplary BTW.
>>
> 
> I agree, I would like to see them realistic but you should probably go with
> what your friend would like most.. Then if you are bored do a realistic one
> for us to gawp at..

Hehe, thanks. Yeah, I'll see which approach works better, but I'm still 
guessing that I might want to try a realistic version of a single snake 
when there's less deadline-pressure.

Regards,
Tim

-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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Tim Nikias <JUS### [at] gmxnetWARE> wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
> > Well Tim, if you know that she would like something colourful then do that
> > thing :-)
>
> Aiming for it. ;-)
>
> > I do like the snakes and think that they would look great with a realistic
> > texture.
>
> I'm trying to get there as well, closing in on the parallel approach to
> realistic vs colorful, I guess Steve's bumpmap might be helpful for that.

Of course! I can feel the photorealism magnet pulling :-)

>  > The modelling is exemplary BTW.
>
> Thanks for the praise, continuous refinement over the last week, I'm not
> a born modeller. ;-)

No one is but the more you practice the better you get, and in reply to your
reply to Sean. I think a lot of the attraction of the snakes is the way they
are posed together.

Stephen

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Stephen wrote:
>> Thanks for the praise, continuous refinement over the last week, I'm not
>> a born modeller. ;-)
> 
> No one is but the more you practice the better you get, and in reply to your
> reply to Sean. I think a lot of the attraction of the snakes is the way they
> are posed together.

Thanks. I'm not sure if this is the final posing, I like the heads, but 
their bodies are shifting the image's balance to the right, so I'm 
thinking about either having the lower snake curve its body more to the 
left to counterbalance, or changing their pose altogether... We'll see 
what works best.

Regards,
Tim


-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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> This last week, I've been trying to model a morilia viridis: a python.

I looked at the image first and said, hmmm, looks like a python and then 
read your post! =D

I have a corn snake (rendered by god!) and when I saw your 3d python it 
made me think of it, it's a snow white corn (like albinos, but it's 
missing more than just one pigmentation, so it's like white and offwhite 
some places).

Good job!
Simon

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> I looked at the image first and said, hmmm, looks like a python and then 
> read your post! =D

Oh, forgot to ask, for your final image, do you expect to give POV-rats 
to it too?  hehe

But I'm just wondering can it be animated (ie articulated)?  I've been 
thinking on doing a snake movement algo in C/C++ and OpenGL (to just 
quickly see the movement) the result could then be exported to a povray 
anim...  unfortunately, I don't have time for any of these things anymore...

Keep up the good work!
Simon

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:

>        You may want to UV map the head or the body so as to be able to
> distinguish between them in your final image - the heads of snakes tend to
> have larger scaly patterns above the eyes and down to the nostrils.

  Hmm, scratch that. According to this image,
http://www.reptilis.org/morelie%20v/imageZoom.htm, my above statement isn't
true of 'all' snakes. Can't say I've ever noticed the scales on a python's
head before though...

 So, you could still UV map your model and just scale down (bump_map wise),
the part between the eyes to the nostrils. Sorted m8.

   ~Steve~

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Grrr! http://www.reptilis.org/morelie%20viridis/image10.htm

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On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 18:47:32 +0100, Tim Nikias
<JUS### [at] gmxnetWARE> wrote:

>
>Thanks. I'm not sure if this is the final posing, I like the heads, but 
>their bodies are shifting the image's balance to the right, so I'm 
>thinking about either having the lower snake curve its body more to the 
>left to counterbalance, or changing their pose altogether... We'll see 
>what works best.

I hope you post further versions. And there is nothing wrong (IMO) with an
asymmetrical picture. I like the composition as it is.


Regards
	Stephen

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Tim Cook wrote:
> It's snakes!  On a plane!
> 

That came also to my mind when I saw the topic.


...and I haven't even seen the movie!

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
   http://www.zbxt.net
      aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

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Just a quick update before I switch the computer off. Added a tongue and 
refined the pose to something much better IMHO. Also tweaked the spine a 
little. I'm thinking about letting the slightly darker snake also have 
it's tail move from right to left as another layer behind their current 
positions, but I've got to test that. To me, it feels like there's too 
little of the snake on top, but just about the right amount for the one 
underneath.

Oh, and I'll get to the replies to all your posts later.

Regards,
Tim

-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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Tim Nikias wrote:
> Just a quick update before I switch the computer off. Added a tongue
> and refined the pose to something much better IMHO.

It's just my opinion of course, but I have to say that I liked the previous 
pose much better. The snakes followed each other more closely, making it 
look like they belong together and moved in unison, though still 
independently. I also don't think there were too much focus to the right - 
the image was well balanced in its asymmetrical way.

In the new pose, the snakes look much more separated, like they casually 
happened to move over each other by chance, but without there being any 
meaning or purpose behind. While the old pose looks like the result of the 
two snakes moving forward together while twisting around each other, the new 
one looks more like they moved randomly around completely independent of 
each other and happened to end up that way. That may be what you're aiming 
at, but knowing your previous images, I would guess not. Take my words with 
a grain of salt though - it's just the way I perceive the images right now.

Rune
-- 
http://runevision.com

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Rune wrote:
> Tim Nikias wrote:
>> Just a quick update before I switch the computer off. Added a tongue
>> and refined the pose to something much better IMHO.
> 
> It's just my opinion of course, but I have to say that I liked the previous 
> pose much better. The snakes followed each other more closely, making it 
> look like they belong together and moved in unison, though still 
> independently. I also don't think there were too much focus to the right - 
> the image was well balanced in its asymmetrical way.

I've got the older version saved as well, of course, so I'll look where 
I end up.

> In the new pose, the snakes look much more separated, like they casually 
> happened to move over each other by chance, but without there being any 
> meaning or purpose behind. While the old pose looks like the result of the 
> two snakes moving forward together while twisting around each other, the new 
> one looks more like they moved randomly around completely independent of 
> each other and happened to end up that way. That may be what you're aiming 
> at, but knowing your previous images, I would guess not. Take my words with 
> a grain of salt though - it's just the way I perceive the images right now.

Sure, a grain of salt is the way I take just about all comments and 
suggestions, no worries. :-) But you're right, that's why I was thinking 
about adding another part of the on-top snake to follow the front part 
of the below-snake. I'm also thinking about an attempt to just keep the 
heads, but have the on-top snake curve along the current below-snake 
pose... I wasn't too satisfied with the first pose, like I said, I felt 
it too much of an asymmetry, the new one lacks a little of the closeness 
you mention. But it's a WIP, so things will/may/should still change. :-D

Regards,
Tim

-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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Stephen wrote:
> I hope you post further versions. And there is nothing wrong (IMO) with an
> asymmetrical picture. I like the composition as it is.

Yeah, asymmetry isn't a bad thing in itself. I'll have to work on it a 
little more to find what I'm really comfortable with.

Regards,
Tim

-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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Simon wrote:
>> I looked at the image first and said, hmmm, looks like a python and 
>> then read your post! =D

Woot, I nailed the python part! :-D

> Oh, forgot to ask, for your final image, do you expect to give POV-rats 
> to it too?  hehe

Not really, this is more a cozy-feel-weel image, not a "dangerous threat 
looming to some poor little critter" type of image. ;-)

> But I'm just wondering can it be animated (ie articulated)?  I've been 
> thinking on doing a snake movement algo in C/C++ and OpenGL (to just 
> quickly see the movement) the result could then be exported to a povray 
> anim...  unfortunately, I don't have time for any of these things 
> anymore...

So far, it's just a basic subdivision-mesh, modelled to look good when 
subdivided. I'm sure it can be articulated somehow, but not with the 
tools I have at hand.

> Keep up the good work!

Thanks, I'm trying to. :-)

-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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St. wrote:
>  Grrr! http://www.reptilis.org/morelie%20viridis/image10.htm

Yeah, some research is always a good start, and that's what I did, of 
course. Hence my post in off-topic asking about tutorials for scales and 
displacement painting... ;-)

Thanks for the links though!

Regards,
Tim

-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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Eero Ahonen wrote:
> Tim Cook wrote:
>> It's snakes!  On a plane!
>>
> 
> That came also to my mind when I saw the topic.
> 
> 
> ....and I haven't even seen the movie!

Me neither, just noticed the hype around it, and the name stuck.

Regards,
Tim


-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

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"Tim Nikias" <JUS### [at] gmxnetWARE> wrote in 
message news:45c3b5ca@news.povray.org...
> Just a quick update before I switch the computer off. Added a 
> tongue and
> refined the pose to something much better IMHO. Also tweaked the 
> spine a
> little. I'm thinking about letting the slightly darker snake also 
> have
> it's tail move from right to left as another layer behind their 
> current
> positions, but I've got to test that. To me, it feels like 
> there's too
> little of the snake on top, but just about the right amount for 
> the one
> underneath.
>

The bottom snake is very linear. I would think it would react to 
the
top snake by arcing its neck back and up a little.

Snakes should be sinuous and hissssssy.

(The bottom snake straight stiffness makes me think
of Thulsa Doom's arrow)

pan

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Tim Nikias <JUS### [at] gmxnetWARE> wrote:
> Just a quick update before I switch the computer off. Added a tongue and
> refined the pose to something much better IMHO. Also tweaked the spine a
> little. I'm thinking about letting the slightly darker snake also have
> it's tail move from right to left as another layer behind their current
> positions, but I've got to test that. To me, it feels like there's too
> little of the snake on top, but just about the right amount for the one
> underneath.
>
> Oh, and I'll get to the replies to all your posts later.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> --
> aka "Tim Nikias"
> Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

Wow, great modelling! I hope to see it with normals, displacement, textures,
and snaky slit pupils! I think your intended recipient is lucky indeed to
get such an effort. Look forward to seeing the final...

-Stefan S,

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Personally, I like this version better than the first one :-)
The top snake needs something more indeed, but be careful not to destroy the 
present effect. If you show too much of its tail in the background, that 
might clutter the image.
I like Pan's idea to lift the head of the bottom snake a tiny bit. Would 
make the image more thrilling with tension. Open its mouth a tiny bit 
also...?

You're on the right track!

Thomas

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