I my opinion this is an almost finished scene. I do not want to add much.
I added the maniquin for scale purposes, but truth is that in the Maniquin
Universe, the Kepler model is hot stuff at this moment!
Still, what needs some more attention is the floor (not entirely satisfying,
made with the parket plugin in Moray).

As always, comments are welcome!

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'Kepler_15.jpg' (166 KB)

Preview of image 'Kepler_15.jpg'

Thomas de Groot spake:

> I my opinion this is an almost finished scene. I do not want to add much.
> I added the maniquin for scale purposes, but truth is that in the Maniquin
> Universe, the Kepler model is hot stuff at this moment!
> Still, what needs some more attention is the floor (not entirely
> satisfying, made with the parket plugin in Moray).
> 
> As always, comments are welcome!
> 

Nice - I like the rolled plans at the top of the bookcase - who're the
people in the two paintings to the right?

-- 
Stefan Viljoen
Software Support Technician / Programmer
Polar Design Solutions

Post a reply to this message

"Stefan Viljoen polard.com>" <spamnot@<removethis> schreef in bericht
news:42f1b75d@news.povray.org...
>
> Nice - I like the rolled plans at the top of the bookcase - who're the
> people in the two paintings to the right?
>
Thank you Stefan.
Yes, the rolls were a must imo.
There are four portraits. Farthest away in the darkness of the corridor
(Time?) is Ptolemy, next comes Copernic, then, in the full light: Tycho
Brahe and Johannes Kepler. The drawings on the wall show the Kepler system
at the bottom, with above it two drawings pinned together: Copernic's system
hidden by Brahe's system. The order is intentional ;-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Why all the grainy textures for the walls, ceiling and floor? I like the
elements of the room, but the texture is very distracting. I paint my walls
fairly smooth, and any texture is much bigger than that. On the order of
several cm, not less than a mm, if you see what I mean.

-s
5TF!

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlnet> wrote:
> I my opinion this is an almost finished scene. I do not want to add much.
> I added the maniquin for scale purposes, but truth is that in the Maniquin
> Universe, the Kepler model is hot stuff at this moment!
> Still, what needs some more attention is the floor (not entirely satisfying,
> made with the parket plugin in Moray).

It's looking great, Thomas, but I agree the floor needs work. Also, I agree
with ST, about the grainy textures.

PS. I've just grabbed the new files, so I'll give it another go.

Post a reply to this message

"PM 2Ring" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht
news:web.42f364c1b9d4c122a196ebe30@news.povray.org...
>
> It's looking great, Thomas, but I agree the floor needs work. Also, I
agree
> with ST, about the grainy textures.
>
Thank you all!!

Texture problems:
Ceiling: what you see is a very small normal. However, the light was very
high, near the ceiling, so I lowered it substantially. The effect is now
very much what I see when I look up at my own ceiling.

Another cause was the radiosity. I fine-tuned it more and artifacts are now
much lessened or have disappeared.

Walls: Same as above for the stucco; the wood grain of the wainscots is more
difficult. It is a fine-grained wood that looks allright close up, but has a
grainy effect farther.

Floor: each individual tile is made up of five elements. The plugin was not
satisfying, so I wrote a new macro. Here too, the wood is rather fine
grained and looks fine from close up. However, the tiles were too small, so
I doubled their size, which doubled also the size of the texture. It looks
better now.

All in all, wood, especially the fine grained examples, is rather difficult
to get right at all distances. I shall post examples of what I mean.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlnet> schreef in bericht
news:42f46913@news.povray.org...
>
> All in all, wood, especially the fine grained examples, is rather
difficult
> to get right at all distances. I shall post examples of what I mean.
>

These are two examples of what I mean...

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'wainscot_mcr.jpg' (73 KB) Download 'Parquet_mcr.jpg' (75 KB)

Preview of image 'wainscot_mcr.jpg'

Preview of image 'Parquet_mcr.jpg'

"PM 2Ring" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlnet> wrote:

> PS. I've just grabbed the new files, so I'll give it another go.

It's all working now. I'm using a simple B&W checker floor. I've done some
preliminary 3D renders, but I had to modify the brass colour used for the
planetary polyhedra so it looks ok as an anaglyph. I would have posted a
preview, but I've has ISP problems for the past 3 days. With luck, I'll be
able to upload an image or two tonight when I get home.

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlnet> wrote:
> I my opinion this is an almost finished scene. I do not want to add much.
> I added the maniquin for scale purposes, but truth is that in the Maniquin
> Universe, the Kepler model is hot stuff at this moment!
> Still, what needs some more attention is the floor (not entirely satisfying,
> made with the parket plugin in Moray).
>
> As always, comments are welcome!
>
> Thomas

Wow!
Cool!
What is it?  What's Kepler model?

Having so many objects makes the scene believable.... must have been hard
work putting in all those objects and aligning them exactly in place.....
I'm having a tough time already picking up real objects in my room and
putting them in right place... such a time-consuming event.

And how do you post more than 1 picture?

Thanks

Post a reply to this message

EagleSun nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2005-08-11 08:38:

> And how do you post more than 1 picture?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
Using Netscape or any Mozilla flavour (X-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 ...). Once you have
attached the 
first one, repeat the process for the other(s) picture(s). Once you've attached all
pictures, hit "Send"

Alain

Post a reply to this message

Here is a 3D view of the Kepler Solar System. This image was generated using
StereoPOV, which unfortunately rotates the camera around the vertical axis,
rather than just panning horizontally.

To view .jps and .pns files get the DepthCharge plugin for Internet Explorer
from
http://www.vrex.com/depthcharge/

or for .jps files, the Stereoscope Java Applet by Andreas Petersik from
http://www.stereofoto.de/sapplet/index.html

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'keplertesta1s.jps.jpg' (127 KB)

Preview of image 'keplertesta1s.jps.jpg'

Here's another 3D view of the Kepler Solar System, using more
anaglyph-friendly colours, and generated using POV-Ray 3.6.

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'keplertestb1.jps.jpg' (135 KB)

Preview of image 'keplertestb1.jps.jpg'

"EagleSun" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht
news:web.42fb46d9b9d4c122841337530@news.povray.org...
>
> Wow!
> Cool!
> What is it?  What's Kepler model?
>
Thank you!
Kepler's model is/was his idea of the solar system, based on the harmonic
measures of Euclidean primitives. The object you see is based on an
engraving that was published in his book on the subject.

> Having so many objects makes the scene believable.... must have been hard
> work putting in all those objects and aligning them exactly in place.....
> I'm having a tough time already picking up real objects in my room and
> putting them in right place... such a time-consuming event.
>
Not so hard to place them as this scene was built in Moray. You see exactly
what you do... except that I have also pure POV-ray objects imported, and
that is somewhat harder. But there are a couple of plugins around that makes
work easy.

> And how do you post more than 1 picture?
>
Well, you can attach as many files as you want, like in an e-mail. I
currently use MS explorer for my mail and newsgroup work, and it works fine.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"PM 2Ring" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht
news:web.42fb01f3b9d4c122ad93754b0@news.povray.org...
> "PM 2Ring" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> It's all working now. I'm using a simple B&W checker floor. I've done some
> preliminary 3D renders, but I had to modify the brass colour used for the
> planetary polyhedra so it looks ok as an anaglyph. I would have posted a
> preview, but I've has ISP problems for the past 3 days. With luck, I'll be
> able to upload an image or two tonight when I get home.
>

I have not been able to get the stereoscope working. I don't know why. I
tried to change directories for the .bat but no results.
I am experimenting now instead with Joerg Schrammel's JAC. Not conclusive
yet, but I am working on it.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlnet> wrote:
> "PM 2Ring" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht
> news:web.42fb01f3b9d4c122ad93754b0@news.povray.org...
> > "PM 2Ring" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > It's all working now. I'm using a simple B&W checker floor. I've done some
> > preliminary 3D renders, but I had to modify the brass colour used for the
> > planetary polyhedra so it looks ok as an anaglyph. I would have posted a
> > preview, but I've has ISP problems for the past 3 days. With luck, I'll be
> > able to upload an image or two tonight when I get home.
> >
>
> I have not been able to get the stereoscope working. I don't know why. I
> tried to change directories for the .bat but no results.
> I am experimenting now instead with Joerg Schrammel's JAC. Not conclusive
> yet, but I am working on it.
>
> Thomas

If you like, I'll upload a small Web page setup with Petersik's stereoscope
applet. Or if worse comes to worse, I can convert the pics to anaglyphs.

I also discovered a free Stereoscopic slideshow prog, but its Windows only.

(I assume the problem is you aren't using Windows/Internet Explorer).

Post a reply to this message

"PM 2Ring" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht
news:web.430045bab9d4c122ad93754b0@news.povray.org...
>
> If you like, I'll upload a small Web page setup with Petersik's
stereoscope
> applet. Or if worse comes to worse, I can convert the pics to anaglyphs.
>
> I also discovered a free Stereoscopic slideshow prog, but its Windows
only.
>
> (I assume the problem is you aren't using Windows/Internet Explorer).
>

Thanks!!!
I am using IE, but still version 5, because I have never been able to
upgrade to version 6 (just freezes slowly during installation and stops
altogether. No help from MS); and I use Firefox mostly nowadays. All under
WinME (will upgrade when I change my PC someday in the future...).

After some trials, I think I shall have an acceptable anaglyph picture ready
tomorrow.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot wrote:
> I have not been able to get the stereoscope working. 

Cross your eyes hard, then slowly relax until the middle pair merge. 
Then relax the focus and you'll see it in stereo.

It's probably easier to practice with a simpler picture, like a line 
drawing of a hypercube projection or so.

I'm not sure what the software is supposed to do to it?

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"You're going to be late for your meeting."
      "That's OK. I can be late."
"What's it about?"
      "Someone else's problems."

Post a reply to this message

I had good luck with this (for the first time) today.

I held a pencil up about half way between my eyes and the screen, on the 
line between the two pictures.  When I looked at the pencil I noticed a 
small slice of "overlap" picture appeared.  By moving the pencil (in my 
case towards me) I was able to enlarge this center image until it was 
full size.  Once I had it I was able to slip the pencil down and enjoy 
the image.

Which is very cool by the way.  Nice work!


Darren New wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
> 
>> I have not been able to get the stereoscope working. 
> 
> 
> Cross your eyes hard, then slowly relax until the middle pair merge. 
> Then relax the focus and you'll see it in stereo.
> 
> It's probably easier to practice with a simpler picture, like a line 
> drawing of a hypercube projection or so.
> 
> I'm not sure what the software is supposed to do to it?
>

Post a reply to this message

"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> schreef in bericht
news:4300c2ce$1@news.povray.org...
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > I have not been able to get the stereoscope working.
>
> Cross your eyes hard, then slowly relax until the middle pair merge.
> Then relax the focus and you'll see it in stereo.
>

I know the technique, the point is that I have not even been able to get an
image on my screen! :-(

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> schreef in bericht
news:4300c2ce$1@news.povray.org...
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > I have not been able to get the stereoscope working.
>
> Cross your eyes hard, then slowly relax until the middle pair merge.
> Then relax the focus and you'll see it in stereo.
>
> It's probably easier to practice with a simpler picture, like a line
> drawing of a hypercube projection or so.
>
> I'm not sure what the software is supposed to do to it?
>

Just my stupidity!!! :-(
Just discovered that I could open the jps files with PaintShopPro! I thought
I needed the software...
Well...crossing my eyes... I was fairly good at that when I worked with
aereal photographs... Gave me headaches too...
Ok, have to try again.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 11:22:33 +0200, "Thomas de Groot"
<t.d### [at] internlnet> wrote:

>
>"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> schreef in bericht
>news:4300c2ce$1@news.povray.org...
>> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> > I have not been able to get the stereoscope working.
>>
>> Cross your eyes hard, then slowly relax until the middle pair merge.
>> Then relax the focus and you'll see it in stereo.
>>
>> It's probably easier to practice with a simpler picture, like a line
>> drawing of a hypercube projection or so.
>>
>> I'm not sure what the software is supposed to do to it?
>>
>
>Just my stupidity!!! :-(
>Just discovered that I could open the jps files with PaintShopPro! I thought
>I needed the software...
>Well...crossing my eyes... I was fairly good at that when I worked with
>aereal photographs... Gave me headaches too...
>Ok, have to try again.
>
>Thomas
>

I changed the extension to bmp and it "worked first time"

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot wrote:
> I know the technique, the point is that I have not even been able to get an
> image on my screen! :-(

Oh! Save the file, and change the extension to .jpg. :-)  I'm assuming 
".jps" means stereo jpeg or some such.

As for getting headaches, it just takes practice. I learned with 
printed-out vector drawings of complex 3D circular functions. Stuff like 
you see on an oscilloscope, but in 3D, so you could follow it around 
with your eyes. Still have some here somewhere, if the thermal paper 
hasn't turned completely black. :-)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"You're going to be late for your meeting."
      "That's OK. I can be late."
"What's it about?"
      "Someone else's problems."

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > I have not been able to get the stereoscope working.
>
> Cross your eyes hard, then slowly relax until the middle pair merge.
> Then relax the focus and you'll see it in stereo.
>
> It's probably easier to practice with a simpler picture, like a line
> drawing of a hypercube projection or so.

Yes.

> I'm not sure what the software is supposed to do to it?

The various stereoscope programs display the stereo data in a variety of
formats, by converting 'on the fly'. The basic .jps format is setup for
naked-eye cross-eyed viewing. The other main naked-eye format is wide-eyed
for parallel viewing; this format is also suitable for viewing with a
traditional-style stereoscope. For naked eye viewing, I prefer wide-eyed
for smaller images, but larger images need to be viewed cross-eyed.

The stereoscope software can also generate various anaglyphs and also
formats suitable for use with various LCD shutter glasses. Petersik's Java
applet also allows use of a mirror: one image on the screen is
mirror-imaged and a mirror is held vertically between the two images. One
eye sees the direct image on the screen, the other eye looks in the mirror.
This method makes fusing the two images very easy, but the reflected image
will not be as bright as the direct image.

The point of using .jps & .pns files is to keep the stereo viewing options
open, rather than having to force everyone to use the one viewing method,
or keeping multiple versions in different formats on your hard drive.

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlnet> wrote:
> "Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> schreef in bericht
> news:4300c2ce$1@news.povray.org...
> > Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > > I have not been able to get the stereoscope working.
> >
> > Cross your eyes hard, then slowly relax until the middle pair merge.
> > Then relax the focus and you'll see it in stereo.
> >
> > It's probably easier to practice with a simpler picture, like a line
> > drawing of a hypercube projection or so.
> >
> > I'm not sure what the software is supposed to do to it?
> >
>
> Just my stupidity!!! :-(
> Just discovered that I could open the jps files with PaintShopPro! I thought
> I needed the software...

Couldn't you even see the preview image? Hmmm...

> Well...crossing my eyes... I was fairly good at that when I worked with
> aereal photographs... Gave me headaches too...

I would expect a geologist to be expert at free-fusion of stereo pairs. :)

Wide-eyed viewing tends to produce less eyestrain than cross-eyed, but most
people find it hard to converge the larger wide-eyed pairs.

> Ok, have to try again.

Good luck!

Post a reply to this message

"PM 2Ring" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht
news:web.4303eec1b9d4c122ad93754b0@news.povray.org...
> > Just my stupidity!!! :-(
> > Just discovered that I could open the jps files with PaintShopPro! I
thought
> > I needed the software...
>
> Couldn't you even see the preview image? Hmmm...

As I tried to say, my brain sometimes takes a vacation and leaves me blank
:-)

>
> > Well...crossing my eyes... I was fairly good at that when I worked with
> > aereal photographs... Gave me headaches too...
>
> I would expect a geologist to be expert at free-fusion of stereo pairs. :)

Absolutely! But I have not used aerial photographs for many years now, and
practice has become somewhat rusty.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Kepler proposed that the distance relationships between the six planets known at
that time could be understood in terms of the five Platonic solids.

Actually his model and book explains little if only that their orbits were
inside one another.
And the function is still called, SolveKepler,
original data :
 from Keith Burnett translated a few times.

My question is, what should he be known for? Something that is not this ....
sort of mechanical meditation in which he engaged, while attepmting to discover
the equations ...

If he was any kind of mathematician his model could have looked like this.
#macro SolveKepler(M,ec)
  #local E = M;
  #local d = E - ec * sin(E) - M;
  #while (abs(d) > 0.00000001)
    #local delta = d / (1.0 - ec * cos(E));
    #local E = E - delta;
    #local d = E - ec * sin(E) - M;
  #end
E
#end

#macro orbital(id)
 #if (id)
  #local M = days * radians(val(elements[id][5]));
  #local p = radians(val(elements[id][3]));
  #local M = M + radians(val(elements[id][7])) - p;
  #local e = val(elements[id][6]);
  #local E = SolveKepler(M, e);
  #local r = IDS(au2km(val(elements[id][4]))) * (1.0 - e * cos(E));
  #local vv = 2.0 * atan(sqrt((1.0 + e) / (1.0 - e)) * tan(E / 2.0));
  #local o = radians(val(elements[id][2]));
  #local i = radians(val(elements[id][1]));

  #local vv = vv + p - o;
  #local e = sin(vv);
  #local p = sin(o);
  #local o = cos(o);
  #local vv = cos(vv);
  #local M = cos(i);
  #local _v = <r * (o * vv - p * e * M), r * e * sin(i), r * (p * vv + o * e *
M)>;

  #local result = pop_matrix4(orbitmatrix,_v);
 #else #local result = <0,0,0>;#end
 result
#end
//    0      1             2             3           4          5            6
        7
//Epoch,inclination, ascending node, perihelion, axis au, daily
motion,eccentricity, longitude,
// size-earthrads, name, host-id
/*

composite -depth 8 -stereo keplerR.png keplerL.png kepler.png

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'kepler.png' (386 KB)

Preview of image 'kepler.png'

> My question is, what should he be known for?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler's_laws_of_planetary_motion

ah there it is. I knew it was something like that. there is too much to know.

so does info cramming help delete old memories? I wonder ...

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlnet> wrote:

> As I tried to say, my brain sometimes takes a vacation and leaves me blank
> :-)
>

you too? one of the first things I did was this biochart and even added an
on-line radiostatic random Tarot reader. ooh eee oooh, twilight zone spooky.

Not really unless you qualify everything misunderstood as demonic or evil like
the rest of the world does.

seems a brain does hang in a 33 day mental cycle as suggested by, hell I dont
know.

heres the cycle lengths from the script:
findday 23 | wavcalc 23 | wavdraw 23 5
  findday 28 | wavcalc 28 | wavdraw 28 3
  findday 33 | wavcalc 33 | wavdraw 33 12
  findday 38 | wavcalc 38 | wavdraw 38 6

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'biochart.gif' (89 KB)

Preview of image 'biochart.gif'

Very nice.

I've been working on my own kepler monograph. Unfortunatley I'm having troube
getting the platonic solids at the correct size.

I don't suppose you would be willing to share the source?

Post a reply to this message

"Woody" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht 
news:web.48df8df1b9d4c12249b4acd50@news.povray.org...
>
> I don't suppose you would be willing to share the source?
>

Incidentally, the source from this image comes from me and can be found in 
p.b.s-f.
header: Kepler Solar System: model
date: August 3rd, 2005

See also my postings in the same n.g. at the date July 12th, 2005.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlnet> wrote:
> "PM 2Ring" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht
> news:web.430045bab9d4c122ad93754b0@news.povray.org...
> >

> > I also discovered a free Stereoscopic slideshow prog, but its Windows
> only.
> >

Do you know where I can get the stereoscopic slideshow program?

Post a reply to this message

"Woody" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht 
news:web.49124fb6b9d4c122778f43870@news.povray.org...
>
> Do you know where I can get the stereoscopic slideshow program?
>

It has been awhile, but it should be this: 
http://www.stereofoto.de/sapplet/history.html as I experimented with the 
Kepler model.

I had some trouble to find it again as I had not saved the site apparently.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> "Woody" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht
> news:web.49124fb6b9d4c122778f43870@news.povray.org...
> >
> > Do you know where I can get the stereoscopic slideshow program?
> >
>
> It has been awhile, but it should be this:
> http://www.stereofoto.de/sapplet/history.html as I experimented with the
> Kepler model.
>
> I had some trouble to find it again as I had not saved the site apparently.
>
> Thomas

Is this the windows version?

Sorry to be nitpicky. I'm quickly disliking the java platform.

Post a reply to this message

"Woody" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht 
news:web.491320ecb9d4c122d0bdfd6f0@news.povray.org...
>
> Is this the windows version?
>
> Sorry to be nitpicky. I'm quickly disliking the java platform.
>

I think I named it windows by mistake. I know for sure that I used this 
applet for experiments with my Kepler object, though, and I cannot find any 
other application on my system. It's been some years ago and I did not do 
really much with it.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> schreef in bericht 
news:4913fff8@news.povray.org...
>
> I think I named it windows by mistake. I know for sure that I used this 
> applet for experiments with my Kepler object, though, and I cannot find 
> any other application on my system. It's been some years ago and I did not 
> do really much with it.
>

....However, have a look at this: http://www.schrammel.org/stereo-jac.php

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"PM 2Ring" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Here's another 3D view of the Kepler Solar System, using more
> anaglyph-friendly colours, and generated using POV-Ray 3.6.

That would make a great prop for a steampunk role-playing game.

Post a reply to this message