I want to finish this WIP, but how?
Starting from an atmosphere test (thanks to Abe for the starting point), the
scene quickly developed to an half-finished state.
Recently Gilles Tran motivated me to start working on it again after showing
an earlier version to him along the way.
The rock and the dead mossy tree are still likely to be changed.

Two questions:
- The image seems to lack something - but what? I already added and deleted
several animals, they didn't seem to fit.
- Is the picture bright enough? I have three different LCD monitors, all
with different Gamma. I want to collect other opinions.

Eventually the final picture will be rendered in 3000+ pixels and will take
at least six weeks on two computers.


Norbert Kern

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Download 'boreal_WIP2.jpg' (273 KB)

Preview of image 'boreal_WIP2.jpg'

Norbert Kern wrote:
> I want to finish this WIP, but how?
> Starting from an atmosphere test (thanks to Abe for the starting point), the
> scene quickly developed to an half-finished state.
> Recently Gilles Tran motivated me to start working on it again after showing
> an earlier version to him along the way.
> The rock and the dead mossy tree are still likely to be changed.

Nice.  What i wonder about is how the trees look at a higher resolution. 
  Coniferous trees are notoriously difficult becuase they are so detailed.

> Two questions:
> - The image seems to lack something - but what? I already added and deleted
> several animals, they didn't seem to fit.

I think it lacks some structure.  The background is quite strongly 
blurred and the foreground is very uniform.  Something like a detailed 
rock or piece of wood quite close to the camera would be good.

> - Is the picture bright enough? I have three different LCD monitors, all
> with different Gamma. I want to collect other opinions.

Seems good to me.

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 06 Jul. 2004 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

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> - The image seems to lack something - but what? 

A beagle in the cockpit?

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"Norbert Kern" <nor### [at] t-onlinede> wrote in message
news:41054fa9@news.povray.org...

First, it's marvelous.  I love "outdoor" scenes, and scenes like this have
crossed my mind, but I've never tried it, thinking it would be quite
difficult to do.

> I want to finish this WIP, but how?
> Starting from an atmosphere test (thanks to Abe for the starting point),
the
> scene quickly developed to an half-finished state.
> Recently Gilles Tran motivated me to start working on it again after
showing
> an earlier version to him along the way.
> The rock and the dead mossy tree are still likely to be changed.
>
> Two questions:
> - The image seems to lack something - but what? I already added and
deleted
> several animals, they didn't seem to fit.
> - Is the picture bright enough? I have three different LCD monitors, all
> with different Gamma. I want to collect other opinions.

Something seems funny, strange with the forest itself.  Should there be more
trees in the back at a lower elevation?  It seems like it.  In other words,
we're presumably looking over a hill.  I would expect some more distant
trees in the nearer distance.

Also, the shadows seem to bright to me, especially on the rock and dead tree
in the foreground.

>
> Eventually the final picture will be rendered in 3000+ pixels and will
take
> at least six weeks on two computers.
>

Gee.  I've tried to keep my hi-rez renders under 3 weeks.  Perhaps I'm
limiting myself too much.

Have fun!  Nice work!

-- 
Jeremy
www.beantoad.com

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"Jeremy M. Praay" <sla### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:410598ac$1@news.povray.org...

> Something seems funny, strange with the forest itself.  Should there
be more
> trees in the back at a lower elevation?  It seems like it.  In other
words,
> we're presumably looking over a hill.  I would expect some more
distant
> trees in the nearer distance.

   If you look closely at the blue background, is there some forest
there too? Very faint. I think so, (I hope).


   ~Steve~


> Jeremy
> www.beantoad.com
>
>

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote in message news:41059acf@news.povray.org...
>
> "Jeremy M. Praay" <sla### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
> news:410598ac$1@news.povray.org...
>
> > Something seems funny, strange with the forest itself.  Should there
> be more
> > trees in the back at a lower elevation?  It seems like it.  In other
> words,
> > we're presumably looking over a hill.  I would expect some more
> distant
> > trees in the nearer distance.
>
>    If you look closely at the blue background, is there some forest
> there too? Very faint. I think so, (I hope).
>
>


Yes, I think those are trees.

My point was that as the eye wanders down the hill that "we" are on, the
trees seem to stop abruptly.  I guess that side of the hill could have been
logged recently (or there could be a cliff, etc.), but it seems strange to
me as I look at it.  "Distant trees in the nearer distance" isn't very good
verbage, but that's what I was getting at.

Nevertheless, that's just my opinion.  It's a great picture.

-- 
Jeremy
www.beantoad.com

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Norbert Kern wrote:
> I want to finish this WIP, but how?
> Starting from an atmosphere test (thanks to Abe for the starting point), the
> scene quickly developed to an half-finished state.
> Recently Gilles Tran motivated me to start working on it again after showing
> an earlier version to him along the way.
> The rock and the dead mossy tree are still likely to be changed.
> 
> Two questions:
> - The image seems to lack something - but what? I already added and deleted
> several animals, they didn't seem to fit.

The sense of "lacking" might be primary to the theme itself.  The main 
question is who is the viewer?  What is the viewer's relationship to the 
plane?  The title is "boreal", northern, but the larger theme is 
"primordial", primeval,...pristine. The sense of which is punctuated by 
the bush flight.  Whatever else you add to the scene must confront this 
dilemma.  That is why animals won't work unless you define what they are 
saying about the plane and the viewer.  The scene hinges on this 
mystery.  Is it a mundane snap of a plane buzzing a bush fire?  Or is 
there something more?

Three things strike me as so wonderful about the scene.  The sense of 
the foliage.  Not only the contrast between the structures of two 
ancient species, but the  sense of their placement, the way they occupy 
space, push against the air, sustain their own weight.  The sense of 
terrain, its scale, and its extension into the distance.  And the 
dramatic effect of the lens distortion which makes our viewing of the 
scene immediately self-conscious.


> - Is the picture bright enough? I have three different LCD monitors, all
> with different Gamma. I want to collect other opinions.
> 
>
Brightness looks perfect to me. I can see the texture in the closer tree 
trunks yet the shadows look deep and delicious.

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Norbert Kern wrote:
>> Two questions:
>> - The image seems to lack something - but what? I already added and
>> deleted several animals, they didn't seem to fit.
>> - Is the picture bright enough? I have three different LCD monitors,
>> all with different Gamma. I want to collect other opinions.

The image looks great to me. Personally I'd lose the plane. It doesn't look in
place. It looks as if you placed the plane exactly there so it wouldn't be
behind any trees. You might want to try moving it a bit to the left, so it is
partially covered by the trees. IMHO, also animals aren't needed.

The brightness of the picture looks okay to me.


-- 
M.E.J.R.Hendrix
a s o e
u t r n
r e i s
i r e
c   n
e

Quote of the minute:
Never read any book that is not a year old. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Norbert Kern wrote:

Awesome. I've never been in that kind of forest, so I can't say if 
anything is missing. I think that if this were a photograph, the 
photographer would use a different lens which would show less 
distortion. Distortion may be your intention, however.

  -Shay

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"Christoph Hormann" <chr### [at] gmxde> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ce3ka9$v1f$1@chho.imagico.de...
> Nice.  What i wonder about is how the trees look at a higher resolution.
>   Coniferous trees are notoriously difficult becuase they are so detailed.
>
Hi Christoph,
the two nearest trunks are replaced by isosurfaces, so a higher resolution
render will not look that bad.
I include an image of the isosurface.

> I think it lacks some structure.  The background is quite strongly
> blurred and the foreground is very uniform.  Something like a detailed
> rock or piece of wood quite close to the camera would be good.

Good points, I'll think about. Thanx for your advise.

Norebrt Kern

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I forgot the trunk image -

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Download 'isotrunk.jpg' (78 KB)

Preview of image 'isotrunk.jpg'

"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:41058747$1@news.povray.org...
> > - The image seems to lack something - but what?
>
> A beagle in the cockpit?


?
I don't know, what you mean; Can you help me?

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"Jeremy M. Praay" <sla### [at] hotmailcom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:410598ac$1@news.povray.org...

> First, it's marvelous.  I love "outdoor" scenes, and scenes like this have
> crossed my mind, but I've never tried it, thinking it would be quite
> difficult to do.


Thank you very much.


> Something seems funny, strange with the forest itself.  Should there be
more
> trees in the back at a lower elevation?  It seems like it.  In other
words,
> we're presumably looking over a hill.  I would expect some more distant
> trees in the nearer distance.


You are right, I'll change that.

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"Jeremy M. Praay" <sla### [at] hotmailcom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:41059e04@news.povray.org...

> Yes, I think those are trees.
>
> My point was that as the eye wanders down the hill that "we" are on, the
> trees seem to stop abruptly.  I guess that side of the hill could have
been
> logged recently (or there could be a cliff, etc.), but it seems strange to
> me as I look at it.  "Distant trees in the nearer distance" isn't very
good
> verbage, but that's what I was getting at.
>
> Nevertheless, that's just my opinion.  It's a great picture.

Thank you very much for that.
I like it by myself, which isn't often the case with test scenes.


Norbert Kern

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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4105bc68$1@news.povray.org...
>
> The sense of "lacking" might be primary to the theme itself.  The main
> question is who is the viewer?  What is the viewer's relationship to the
> plane?  The title is "boreal", northern, but the larger theme is
> "primordial", primeval,...pristine. The sense of which is punctuated by
> the bush flight.  Whatever else you add to the scene must confront this
> dilemma.  That is why animals won't work unless you define what they are
> saying about the plane and the viewer.  The scene hinges on this
> mystery.  Is it a mundane snap of a plane buzzing a bush fire?  Or is
> there something more?


Nice and deep thoughts, thank you for it. I have to sleep about it.


Norbert Kern

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"Shay" <sah### [at] simcopartscom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:41066be7$1@news.povray.org...
> Norbert Kern wrote:
>
> Awesome. I've never been in that kind of forest, so I can't say if
> anything is missing. I think that if this were a photograph, the
> photographer would use a different lens which would show less
> distortion. Distortion may be your intention, however.
>
>   -Shay


I'll try some camera alternatives, thanx for the tip.
Up to now I used ultra_wide_angle with a viewing angle of about 90 °.

Norbert Kern

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Norbert Kern wrote:
> I want to finish this WIP, but how?
> Starting from an atmosphere test (thanks to Abe for the starting point), the
> scene quickly developed to an half-finished state.
> Recently Gilles Tran motivated me to start working on it again after showing
> an earlier version to him along the way.
> The rock and the dead mossy tree are still likely to be changed.
> 
> Two questions:
> - The image seems to lack something - but what? I already added and deleted
> several animals, they didn't seem to fit.
> - Is the picture bright enough? I have three different LCD monitors, all
> with different Gamma. I want to collect other opinions.
> 
> Eventually the final picture will be rendered in 3000+ pixels and will take
> at least six weeks on two computers.
> 
> 
> Norbert Kern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
this is realy nice! but indeed, there is like something missing, hard to 
describe. to me, the image seems rather flat. the trees are stunning but 
they don't create enough dept. i thing you need more perspective in your 
render. also the colors seem a little high contrasted. it's strong green 
against strong blue, try adding some other colors in whatever way. good 
image !

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Norbert Kern wrote:
> I don't know, what you mean; Can you help me?

Sorry. That was a joke. A reference to Snoopy (from the Peanuts comic 
strip) and the Red Baron.

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:41059acf@news.povray.org...

>    If you look closely at the blue background, is there some forest
> there too? Very faint. I think so, (I hope).


Yes there is a not so distant hill with forest.
I'll change it to be more recognizable.
A quick render shows the new version.

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Attachments:
Download 'boreal_background.jpg' (78 KB)

Preview of image 'boreal_background.jpg'

"lenx" <len### [at] pandorabe> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4106a209$1@news.povray.org...

> this is realy nice! but indeed, there is like something missing, hard to
> describe. to me, the image seems rather flat. the trees are stunning but
> they don't create enough dept. i thing you need more perspective in your
> render. also the colors seem a little high contrasted. it's strong green
> against strong blue, try adding some other colors in whatever way. good
> image !

You are right, yellow and red colors are underrepresented.
This is the only reason I left the plane in place. But what else?

Norbert Kern

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"SomeOne" <ask### [at] yahoocouknospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4105f2f9$1@news.povray.org...

> The image looks great to me. Personally I'd lose the plane. It doesn't
look in
> place. It looks as if you placed the plane exactly there so it wouldn't be
> behind any trees. You might want to try moving it a bit to the left, so it
is
> partially covered by the trees. IMHO, also animals aren't needed.


I need the plane only to have a red spot.
If there is an alternative, I'ld let it crash.


Norebrt Kern

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I really like the feel of this image. I've wanted to do something like this
for a a while (forrest w/ ferns sort of thing), although I don't think I
would have come up with some of the touches you did. I also think you have
good aerial perspective working here.

For what its worth, I'll put my thoughts along with everyone elses:

Lowering the plane slightly into the top third of the image might bring it a
little more into focus. Also opening the trees a touch around it to create
a frame  might help.

Bring something into the lower part of the image to balance the red plane (a
subtle red tinted bird whatching it?).

Anyway, thanks for showing it - I've enjoyed it!

Abe

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"Abe" <bul### [at] taconicnet> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:web.41077694b87a50fa279489e0@news.povray.org...
> I really like the feel of this image. I've wanted to do something like
this
> for a a while (forrest w/ ferns sort of thing), although I don't think I
> would have come up with some of the touches you did. I also think you have
> good aerial perspective working here.

I love your images and you should try building some complete scenes.
And I would love to see more of your code.
As I said, I learned from you
(http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/message/%3Cweb.3e8c22222831a9
513f8e7b2e0%40news.povray.org%3E/#%3Cweb.3e8c22222831a9513f8e7b2e0%40news.po
vray.org%3E).

What I did was to replace it with -

 #declare h_strength = 0.0005;
box {
        -1,1
        hollow
        scale <1000,400,1000>
        pigment {rgbt 1}
        interior {
                media {
                        scattering {3 rgb h_strength*<0.2,0.25,1>*0.25
extinction 0}
                        absorption rgb h_strength
                        method 2
                }
        }
}


> For what its worth, I'll put my thoughts along with everyone elses:
>
> Lowering the plane slightly into the top third of the image might bring it
a
> little more into focus. Also opening the trees a touch around it to create
> a frame  might help.
>
> Bring something into the lower part of the image to balance the red plane
(a
> subtle red tinted bird whatching it?).

I'll try it, seems to introduce a surrealistic touch.


> Anyway, thanks for showing it - I've enjoyed it!

Thank you,

Norbert Kern

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Norbert Kern wrote:
> Two questions:
> - The image seems to lack something - but what? I already added and deleted
> several animals, they didn't seem to fit.

   I think there is like a missing zone between the foreground trees and 
the background ones. I would expect the trees to disappear more gradually.

> - Is the picture bright enough? I have three different LCD monitors, all
> with different Gamma. I want to collect other opinions.

   Perhaps it's a little bit washed on my screen...

   Overall, it's a beautiful composition. The atmosphere is very good, 
almost what I expect for that kind of forest.

--
Jaime Vives Piqueres

http://www.ignorancia.org/

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Norbert Kern wrote:
>> "SomeOne" <ask### [at] yahoocouknospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> news:4105f2f9$1@news.povray.org...
>>
>>> The image looks great to me. Personally I'd lose the plane. It
[...]
>>
>> I need the plane only to have a red spot.
>> If there is an alternative, I'ld let it crash.

... Have you considered using a single plant with a red flower somewhere
between the trees on the right?

-- 
Maurice

Quote of the minute:
Xerox and Wurlitzer:  They're going to make reproductive organs.

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Very very nice, except I'd lose the plane altogether.  It just distracts for
me and my wife.  Maybe you could have two versions, one with plane,
one without :-)

"Norbert Kern" <nor### [at] t-onlinede> wrote in message
news:41054fa9@news.povray.org...
> I want to finish this WIP, but how?
> Starting from an atmosphere test (thanks to Abe for the starting point),
the
> scene quickly developed to an half-finished state.
> Recently Gilles Tran motivated me to start working on it again after
showing
> an earlier version to him along the way.
> The rock and the dead mossy tree are still likely to be changed.
>
> Two questions:
> - The image seems to lack something - but what? I already added and
deleted
> several animals, they didn't seem to fit.
> - Is the picture bright enough? I have three different LCD monitors, all
> with different Gamma. I want to collect other opinions.
>
> Eventually the final picture will be rendered in 3000+ pixels and will
take
> at least six weeks on two computers.
>
>
> Norbert Kern
>
>
>
>
>
>

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