I'm currently experimenting a little to put some water on 
Mars. I'm not sure if it looks realistic, so ideas are welcome. 

The water has an interior with exponential fading. 

The (nearly) same image without water can be found at 
http://www.cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~wwieser/render/img/mars/index.html#3craters

Rendering time for 1200x600 +A0.2 was 330 minutes on AthlonXP 1.4GHz. 
Memory consumption was 50Mb. 

Wolfgang

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"Wolfgang Wieser" <wwi### [at] gmxde> wrote in message
news:401c3c53@news.povray.org...
> I'm currently experimenting a little to put some water on
> Mars. I'm not sure if it looks realistic, so ideas are welcome.
>
> The water has an interior with exponential fading.
>
> The (nearly) same image without water can be found at
>
http://www.cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~wwieser/render/img/mars/index.html#3craters

I like. I'll get my swimsuit.

Looks pretty good, as is, actually. Something which could help it would be
flows from higher to lower elevations, but probably very difficult to do, if
not impossible. And would be a good idea to try and limit parts from getting
water too.

Of course, one thing a planet with water needs is plantlife in at least some
parts. Granted, there could still be somewhat lifeless regions caused by
salty bodies of water and such, but not always (well, lots of unknowns). So
maybe you could add a slope pigment to get regions looking like a kind of
foliage is covering parts of the ground or along the embankments.

BTW, I didn't get back to one of your previous messages where you told of
using a custom-made convertor of the MOLA img files. So thanks for telling
about that. I was still looking all over for more info about the resolutions
of the elevation data and I didn't get anywhere with that so I gave up
trying.

Any chance you'll be making your conversion tool available? If so I, for
one, have my hand out to await it. I'll try not to be pushy though.  ;-)

Bob

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Cooool!
Now I understand where is gone all the warter of Mars: with all these holes
it couldn't stay at the surface;-)
Marc
"Wolfgang Wieser" <wwi### [at] gmxde> a écrit dans le message de news:
401c3c53@news.povray.org...
> I'm currently experimenting a little to put some water on

Post a reply to this message

"Hughes, B." <omn### [at] charternet> a écrit dans le message de news:
401c9259$1@news.povray.org...
> Of course, one thing a planet with water needs is plantlife in at least
some
> parts. Granted, there could still be somewhat lifeless regions caused by
> salty bodies of water and such, but not always (well, lots of unknowns).
So
> maybe you could add a slope pigment to get regions looking like a kind of
> foliage is covering parts of the ground or along the embankments.
>
Hi,
 I wasn't born yet but it seems that, on earth, it took very long time to
life to conqueer emerged lands after it appeared in oceans.
It should have no chance to do so in the time liquid water was at the
surface of mars.

Marc

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Hughes, B. wrote:
> Looks pretty good, as is, actually. Something which could help it would be
> flows from higher to lower elevations, but probably very difficult to do,
> if not impossible. 
>
Yes... actually, the water level is not at the same height all over 
the image but real flow from higher to lower would require a somewhat 
different approach than I am doing right now. 

> And would be a good idea to try and limit parts from
> getting water too.
> 
In the right back, correct. I did not notice that before the final 
render. And a 5 hour render is not repeated quickly...

> Of course, one thing a planet with water needs is plantlife in at least
> some parts. Granted, there could still be somewhat lifeless regions caused
> by salty bodies of water and such, but not always (well, lots of
> unknowns). So maybe you could add a slope pigment to get regions looking
> like a kind of foliage is covering parts of the ground or along the
> embankments.
> 
Allright, there is no limit on the amount of time one could spend 
on making Mars look like a planet with plenty of life. 
But for now, I just wanted to get some realistically-looking water. 

> BTW, I didn't get back to one of your previous messages where you told of
> using a custom-made convertor of the MOLA img files. So thanks for telling
> about that. I was still looking all over for more info about the
> resolutions of the elevation data and I didn't get anywhere with that so I
> gave up trying.
> 
> Any chance you'll be making your conversion tool available? If so I, for
> one, have my hand out to await it. I'll try not to be pushy though.  ;-)
> 
You will need libz, libpng, libbz2 (on any recent linux distro), 
hlib (on my homepage) and Qt-3.x (only free for linux). 
Then, I could send you hlib-compression-addon, QTXlib and my conversion 
utility. Compile all that using gcc-3.x on a linux box and there you go. 
(The conversion utility has graphical output. When editing the source, 
you may come along without Qt and QTXlib.)

In case anybody (possibly you) is interested in that I may make it 
available on my home page in a week or so (there is an exam this 
week...). 

Wolfgang

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"Wolfgang Wieser" <wwi### [at] gmxde> a écrit dans le message de
news:401cd9fc@news.povray.org...
> In case anybody (possibly you) is interested in that I may make it
> available on my home page in a week or so (there is an exam this
> week...).

I'm interrested :-)
Thank you.

-- 
ZeSly
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/zesly/

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"Marc Jacquier" <jac### [at] wanadoofr> wrote in message
news:401cc9d3$1@news.povray.org...
>
> "Hughes, B." <omn### [at] charternet> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 401c9259$1@news.povray.org...
> > Of course, one thing a planet with water needs is plantlife
>
> It should have no chance to do so in the time liquid water was at the
> surface of mars.

Always debateable but, yes, I think you have a good point there. I used the
word plantlife in a very broad sense, including things like algae and even
protist slimey stuff someplace. :-)

This brings up something about the coloration of the water used here in
Wolfgang's rendering. My first thought was of water-borne life because of
the greenish tinge. A large manmade lake nearby here has a sometimes vivid
green coloring in certain places, brownish in others, yet overall tends to
be green hues. I don't know of any water having green colorations without
plantlife within it so its natural to think of it as life-bearing.

That might be something to change then to reflect a more sterile water on an
early Mars.

Bob H.

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Ahhh, linux.... something I'm not running on my computers here. Guess I'll
pass then, thanks anyhow for the offer!
-- 
Bob H.
http://www.3digitaleyes.com

"Wolfgang Wieser" <wwi### [at] gmxde> wrote in message
news:401cd9fc@news.povray.org...
> >
> You will need libz, libpng, libbz2 (on any recent linux distro),
> hlib (on my homepage) and Qt-3.x (only free for linux).
> Then, I could send you hlib-compression-addon, QTXlib and my conversion
> utility. Compile all that using gcc-3.x on a linux box and there you go.
> (The conversion utility has graphical output. When editing the source,
> you may come along without Qt and QTXlib.)
>
> In case anybody (possibly you) is interested in that I may make it
> available on my home page in a week or so (there is an exam this
> week...).

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Among other things, Hughes, B. wrote:

> I don't know of any water having green colorations without
> plantlife within it so its natural to think of it as life-bearing.

Copper and iron salts can be green too 
(<http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=346>).

-- 
light_source{9+9*x,1}camera{orthographic look_at(1-y)/4angle 30location
9/4-z*4}light_source{-9*z,1}union{box{.9-z.1+x clipped_by{plane{2+y-4*x
0}}}box{z-y-.1.1+z}box{-.1.1+x}box{.1z-.1}pigment{rgb<.8.2,1>}}//Jellby

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Oh in water, life should be easier to born than on land ( less cosmic rays,
more even temperature, no need of  rain, no gravity to overcome, ect...) ,
so life could exist in seas hundreds millions years before on dry land.
Marc

"Hughes, B." <omn### [at] charternet> a écrit dans le message de news:
401d7942$1@news.povray.org...
> "Marc Jacquier" <jac### [at] wanadoofr> wrote in message
> news:401cc9d3$1@news.povray.org...
> >
> > "Hughes, B." <omn### [at] charternet> a écrit dans le message de news:
> > 401c9259$1@news.povray.org...
> > > Of course, one thing a planet with water needs is plantlife
> >
> > It should have no chance to do so in the time liquid water was at the
> > surface of mars.
>
> Always debateable but, yes, I think you have a good point there. I used
the
> word plantlife in a very broad sense, including things like algae and even
> protist slimey stuff someplace. :-)
>
> This brings up something about the coloration of the water used here in
> Wolfgang's rendering. My first thought was of water-borne life because of
> the greenish tinge. A large manmade lake nearby here has a sometimes vivid
> green coloring in certain places, brownish in others, yet overall tends to
> be green hues. I don't know of any water having green colorations without
> plantlife within it so its natural to think of it as life-bearing.
>
> That might be something to change then to reflect a more sterile water on
an
> early Mars.
>
> Bob H.
>
>

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"Jellby" <jel### [at] M-yahoocom> wrote in message
news:401d8698@news.povray.org...
>
> Copper and iron salts can be green too
> (<http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=346>).

Glad you showed that. I wasn't considering inorganic colorations.

I also think of the bacteria at Yellowstone National Park, in the hotsprings
there. Colorful stuff and not "plantlife" either. I keep using that word too
generally and used it again to mean any kind of microorganism.

Here's an article concerning Jupiter's moon Europa, about possibility of
bacteria and the colors on it's surface:
http://nai.arc.nasa.gov/news_stories/news_detail.cfm?ID=53

Bob H.

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[following the nice discussion about signs of life...]

Actually, the coloring of the water was the major problem. 

I'm not sure if an ocean on Mars would be so blue; at least 
there is no blue sky which could be reflected. 
And then I had to make it much darker than I thought because 
if I leave the water more transparent it no longer looks like 
liquid water at all but like dark dry sediments. Or maybe, this 
perception varies quite a lot between different people. 

And yes, I decided to make the water (absorption) a bit greenish 
because it turned out that I liked it...
But now, I will be telling people it's some anorganic salts ;)
(Thanks Jellby)

BTW, there is now an updated version on my homepage. I removed 
some spurious water in the background by re-adjusting the level. 
Especially have a look at the crater right back!

http://www.cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~wwieser/render/img/mars/3craters-ese-2-1200.jpg

Wolfgang

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Looks better.

There are some peculiar squiggles running from lower right toward the
middle, and comparing this new render to the other I see it was also visible
there. Just much clearer to see now. Perhaps a isosurface with too low a
max_gradient?

Bob H.

"Wolfgang Wieser" <wwi### [at] gmxde> wrote in message
news:401ea555@news.povray.org...
---snip---
>
http://www.cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~wwieser/render/img/mars/3craters-ese-2-1200.jpg

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High!

Wolfgang Wieser schrieb:

  I'm not sure if an ocean on Mars would be so blue; at least
  there is no blue sky which could be reflected.

I don't think so... as long Mars was able to maintain liquid water on its surface, the
atmosphere must have been much denser
then today, and so the sky also was coloured up to the zenith, unlike nowadays. And
even
today sometimes, depending on
weather and dust saturation of the air, the reddish/yellowish horizon seam turns
bluish -
so also the early Martian oceans
would probably have been deep blue like Earth's oceans as seen from orbit

  BTW, there is now an updated version on my homepage. I removed
  some spurious water in the background by re-adjusting the level.
  Especially have a look at the crater right back!

Did you use 8 or 16bit resolution for the heightfield? I assume that you used
Christoph's
IC_HF_Sphere function to wrap it
around the sphere... perhaps in the future, we might be able to reduce rendering time
by
just rendering those portions (tiles)
of the heightfield which would be actually visible in the image; currently, I try to
modify IC_HF_Sphere to render only
sections of a spherical heightfield...

See you in Khyberspace - http://home.arcor.de/yadgar/khyberspace/index-e.html
Afghanistan Chronicle: http://home.arcor.de/yadgar/index-e.htm
Home-made electronic music: http://home.arcor.de/yadgar/music/

Yadgar ((:->

Now playing: Upstairs in my House (Men at Work)

--
Pashto 2.0, a protocol language for the Advanced Fractal Geometric Heightfield and
Navigation Implementation-Sensitive
Texture Analysis Network

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Jörg 'Yadgar' Bleimann wrote:
>   BTW, there is now an updated version on my homepage. I removed
>   some spurious water in the background by re-adjusting the level.
>   Especially have a look at the crater right back!
> 
> Did you use 8 or 16bit resolution for the heightfield? 
>
16 bit. But no height field. 

Wolfgang

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Hughes, B. wrote:
> There are some peculiar squiggles running from lower right toward the
> middle, and comparing this new render to the other I see it was also
> visible there. Just much clearer to see now. Perhaps a isosurface with too
> low a max_gradient?
> 
I see what you mean. 
There are more spots of this sort. 
They are not related to the water surface because they are also 
visible on the rendering without water. 

I'm not sure what it is but I doubt it is due to max_gradient (which 
was set too high and hence the reason for the render to take soo long). 
I'll see if changing accuracy/gradient will help. 

OTOH, it does not really hurt, IMO. 

Wolfgang

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High!

Wolfgang Wieser schrieb:

  16 bit. But no height field.

So it must be a mesh - how long did it take to parse?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Now playing: Fashion Fever (Level 42)

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