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This is the result of a rather vivid dream one morning and a desire to play
with isosurfaces.
I still need to add some distant mountains and some kind
of statue buried in the ice, and I want to make the fence
look a little less human. (This is supposed to be an alien
planet).
The waterfall had always flowed. There was never a recorded time
when the water did not cascade over the crystal cliffs. The ancient
books told that one of the signs of the end of time would be the lack of
flowing water over the cliffs. The years passed and the suns cooled.
Every winter the flow of water was less and less. Many took this
as a sign and left for other planets. The disbelievers remained.
One winter the waterfall froze completely. It was the beginning of the end.
Winter was longer each year, summer colder. Within a very short time
the ice age had come again.
Comments?
Gail
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotix co za * System.dat not found. *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Reformat hard drive Y)es O)k *
********************************************************************
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Attachments:
Download 'IceMountain.jpg' (63 KB)
Preview of image 'IceMountain.jpg'

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In article <3a9bf4be@news.povray.org>, Gail Shaw says...
<snip>
> The waterfall had always flowed. There was never a recorded time
> when the water did not cascade over the crystal cliffs. The ancient
> books told that one of the signs of the end of time would be the lack of
> flowing water over the cliffs. The years passed and the suns cooled.
> Every winter the flow of water was less and less. Many took this
> as a sign and left for other planets. The disbelievers remained.
> One winter the waterfall froze completely. It was the beginning of the end.
> Winter was longer each year, summer colder. Within a very short time
> the ice age had come again.
>
> Comments?
>
> Gail
Did you dream all this? Is it from a book? It's haunting. So is the
image, be it that the colours are a bit uniform, and the ice-fall is not
very clearly structured, and the rock wall is a bit uniform too...
Don't get this wrong: I like the idea very much, the day that I will see
two suns or two moons I'll know I'm finished. It is something I do dream
about every 3 years or so... :-)
--
Regards, Sander
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"Gail Shaw" <gsh### [at] monotix co za> wrote in message
news:3a9bf4be@news.povray.org...
> This is the result of a rather vivid dream one morning and a desire
> to play with isosurfaces.
> I still need to add some distant mountains and some kind
> of statue buried in the ice, and I want to make the fence
> look a little less human. (This is supposed to be an alien
> planet).
This would be VERY nice if the waterfall was created as a
particle simulation of water droplets. Would take a LONG time to
render, but would increase the picture immensly..
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UX/GQ5AhHYjOH5ZBJXAssVno
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Gail Shaw wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Comments?
>
Yes, it looks very nice, the ice, the lighting, ...
although the waterfall would probably not freeze that way as a whole, but
get a quite rough surface and be broader at the bottom.
How did you do the suns?
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmx de>
IsoWood include, radiosity tutorial, TransSkin and other
things on: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
Post a reply to this message
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In article <3a9bf4be@news.povray.org>, "Gail Shaw"
<gsh### [at] monotix co za> wrote:
> I still need to add some distant mountains and some kind
> of statue buried in the ice, and I want to make the fence
> look a little less human. (This is supposed to be an alien
> planet).
The chain does look very out of place...and it should be encrusted with
ice.
The waterfall needs some work, it should be a lot broader at the base,
where trickling water would pour on the accumulated ice, and some finer
detail would be nice. And the rock it is...er, was pouring over looks
quite artificial, maybe make it more uneven, less like a rock wall. And
maybe some snow...
You've managed to get it to look quite cold, though.
The suns and the city in the background look great, though.
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] mac com, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tag povray org, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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Sander <san### [at] stols com> wrote in message
news:MPG### [at] NEWS POVRAY ORG...
>
> Did you dream all this? Is it from a book? It's haunting.
Dream
>So is the
> image, be it that the colours are a bit uniform, and the ice-fall is not
> very clearly structured, and the rock wall is a bit uniform too...
I went through so many variations on colour for the wall, Dark red, light
pink,
light blue and I like the current dark blue best. Maybe I'll try a subtle
bozo
instead of solid colour.
Rock wall is supposed to be a crystal cliff. Will work on the waterfall
after irtc deadline.
Gail
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotix co za * System.dat not found. *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Reformat hard drive Y)es O)k *
********************************************************************
* If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 *
********************************************************************
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Thomas Charron <tch### [at] ductape net> wrote in message
news:3a9c1a83$1@news.povray.org...
>
> This would be VERY nice if the waterfall was created as a
> particle simulation of water droplets. Would take a LONG time to
> render, but would increase the picture immensly..
>
Takes 13 hours already, but you've got me thinking. Hmmmm.........
Gail
--
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotix co za * System.dat not found. *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Reformat hard drive Y)es O)k *
********************************************************************
* If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 *
********************************************************************
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Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmx de> wrote in message
news:3A9C2FCB.EE6032FB@gmx.de...
>
> Yes, it looks very nice, the ice, the lighting, ...
> although the waterfall would probably not freeze that way as a whole, but
> get a quite rough surface and be broader at the bottom.
Will play around with waterfalls after current irtc deadline. I'll
try and create it using the particle system instead of an isosurface.
> How did you do the suns?
Glows.
Gail
--
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotix co za * System.dat not found. *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Reformat hard drive Y)es O)k *
********************************************************************
* If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 *
********************************************************************
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Chris Huff <chr### [at] mac com> wrote in message
news:chrishuff-AA56BC.18574727022001@news.povray.org...
>
> The chain does look very out of place...and it should be encrusted with
> ice.
Didn't think of ice. Any suggestions for a fence that doesn't look human?
> The waterfall needs some work, it should be a lot broader at the base,
> where trickling water would pour on the accumulated ice, and some finer
> detail would be nice. And the rock it is...er, was pouring over looks
> quite artificial, maybe make it more uneven, less like a rock wall. And
> maybe some snow...
The 'rock' is supposed to be a crystal cliff. I agree the waterfall isn't
perfect.
I'll have a go with a particle system or two. Can the results of one
particle
system be used in collision detection with another?
As for snow it's too cold to snow, but there might be some wind blown
powder. Maybe a couple more particle systems <wince>
> You've managed to get it to look quite cold, though.
Good.
> The suns and the city in the background look great, though.
Suns were created using glows and the city was modelled in Rhino.
Gail
--
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotix co za * System.dat not found. *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Reformat hard drive Y)es O)k *
********************************************************************
* If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 *
********************************************************************
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>Any suggestions for a fence that doesn't look human?
I've got an idea but I don't know how to describe it. If you took a spiral
and made the edges flat, instead of round. Almost like the protective
covering on some electrical stuf. I thinnk the easiest way to do it would be
to take a tube and then subtracta spira from it. The spiral should basically
have the same diametre as the tube. I like the posts.
> The 'rock' is supposed to be a crystal cliff.
Maybe if you made the crystal more transparent it would look more like
crystal.
Nekar Xenos aka Gerhard Oosthuizen
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Nekar Xenos <vir### [at] icon co za> wrote in message
news:3a9ca0dc@news.povray.org...
> I've got an idea but I don't know how to describe it. If you took a spiral
> and made the edges flat, instead of round. Almost like the protective
> covering on some electrical stuf. I thinnk the easiest way to do it would
be
> to take a tube and then subtracta spira from it. The spiral should
basically
> have the same diametre as the tube. I like the posts.
I like. Thanks, I'll give that a try.
> Maybe if you made the crystal more transparent it would look more like
> crystal.
Maybe. Nice high ior should help too.
Gail
--
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotix co za * System.dat not found. *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Reformat hard drive Y)es O)k *
********************************************************************
* If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 *
********************************************************************
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in <3a9c9327@news.povray.org> Gail Shaw wrote:
>Will play around with waterfalls after current irtc deadline. I'll
>try and create it using the particle system instead of an isosurface.
>
For some inspiration on ice waterfalls:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~qtluong/gallery/slides-ice/folio-ice.html
Ingo
--
Photography: http://members.home.nl/ingoogni/
Pov-Ray : http://members.home.nl/seed7/
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ingo <ing### [at] home nl> wrote in message
news:Xns### [at] povray org...
>
> For some inspiration on ice waterfalls:
> http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~qtluong/gallery/slides-ice/folio-ice.html
>
Thanks for the link. That'll help a lot.
Gail
--
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotix co za * System.dat not found. *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Reformat hard drive Y)es O)k *
********************************************************************
* If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 *
********************************************************************
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In article <3a9c9637@news.povray.org>, "Gail Shaw"
<gsh### [at] monotix co za> wrote:
> Didn't think of ice. Any suggestions for a fence that doesn't look human?
Hmm...people have made so many kinds of fences, you should be able to
find one that doesn't look man-made. :-)
A couple ideas...twisted or round helix "rope" instead of chains, a
large number of small, closely spaced posts, interlocking cylinders that
don't touch the neighboring posts, but come close, electrical arcs
(which wouldn't have any problem with ice buildup!), glowing tubes...
> I'll have a go with a particle system or two. Can the results of one
> particle system be used in collision detection with another?
I don't see any reason that won't work...but I'm not sure it's the best
approach. The results will probably look too much like liquid...an
isosurface should be fine.
> As for snow it's too cold to snow, but there might be some wind blown
> powder. Maybe a couple more particle systems <wince>
Using a particle_system object directly for wind-blown powdery snow
would take a *lot* of particles (lots of memory), even if confined to a
small area...you might have better luck with a particle system written
that generates a blob pattern, then use that pattern to place a snow
texture layer. For this, you could use your own particle system written
in POV Script, or the accessor functions for the particle_system data.
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] mac com, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tag povray org, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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Chris Huff <chr### [at] mac com> wrote in message
news:chrishuff-58F520.05581028022001@news.povray.org...
> Using a particle_system object directly for wind-blown powdery snow
> would take a *lot* of particles (lots of memory), even if confined to a
> small area...
I know. I've tried it before. Stopped the parse after 3 hours and found
a 500 MB swap file.
I'll see what blobs and a good texture look like.
Gail
--
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotix co za * System.dat not found. *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Reformat hard drive Y)es O)k *
********************************************************************
* If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 *
********************************************************************
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Gail Shaw <gsh### [at] monotix co za> wrote:
> Chris Huff <chr### [at] mac com> wrote in message
> news:chrishuff-58F520.05581028022001@news.povray.org...
>> Using a particle_system object directly for wind-blown powdery snow
>> would take a *lot* of particles (lots of memory), even if confined to a
>> small area...
> I know. I've tried it before. Stopped the parse after 3 hours and found
> a 500 MB swap file.
> I'll see what blobs and a good texture look like.
Well, take a look at Door Into Summer. If you want the Snow Texture from
that, let me know. It was done with blobs, so you can get some pretty
convincing snow (depends on how long you want to play with it.)
Geoff
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Geoff Wedig <wed### [at] darwin epbi cwru edu> wrote in message
news:3a9cf1d9@news.povray.org...
> Well, take a look at Door Into Summer. If you want the Snow Texture from
> that, let me know. It was done with blobs, so you can get some pretty
> convincing snow (depends on how long you want to play with it.)
Love your pic, would definatly like to see the texture. Did you say
you would be posting the code sometime?
Gail
--
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotix co za * System.dat not found. *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Reformat hard drive Y)es O)k *
********************************************************************
* If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 *
********************************************************************
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I actually messed around with using the particle emmiters to create a
waterfall effect. What I wanted to do is basically create a scene that
looked like the end of the earth, aka, water falling off the edge, with a
boat just cresting the top, about to drop. :-) I created a rectangular
box, and had it emitting blobs. Added a decent water texture, and the
images rocked. I'll have to look around to see if I still have a copy of
them somewhere, but it came out REALLY nice. Unfortionatly, it took a
*VERY* long time to render, due to having literally thousands of blob
objects. IIRC, its part of MegaPOV+.
"Gail Shaw" <gsh### [at] monotix co za> wrote in message
news:3a9c9245@news.povray.org...
> Thomas Charron <tch### [at] ductape net> wrote in message
> news:3a9c1a83$1@news.povray.org...
> > This would be VERY nice if the waterfall was created as a
> > particle simulation of water droplets. Would take a LONG time to
> > render, but would increase the picture immensly..
> Takes 13 hours already, but you've got me thinking. Hmmmm.........
Post a reply to this message
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Gail Shaw <gsh### [at] monotix co za> wrote:
> Geoff Wedig <wed### [at] darwin epbi cwru edu> wrote in message
> news:3a9cf1d9@news.povray.org...
>> Well, take a look at Door Into Summer. If you want the Snow Texture from
>> that, let me know. It was done with blobs, so you can get some pretty
>> convincing snow (depends on how long you want to play with it.)
> Love your pic, would definatly like to see the texture. Did you say
> you would be posting the code sometime?
*all* the code? Trust me, you don't want it. It's far from clean. Some
bits, like the stuff to make walls and arches I'm planning on posting
somewhere, because I think they'd be generally useful, but most of it I'll
keep unless people ask.
The snow texture, on the other hand, I can do easily (see below)
The first (Snow1) is a not bad attempt at the rolling plains snow, but I
don't actually use it in the pic, finding Snow2 almost as good, and much
better for the piled snow in the foreground. Only real problem is that it's
slightly too shiny when in direct light, but maybe it'll do what you want.
The principle behind it, if you're curious, is that worn snow (ie, been
around for awhile) has largish chunks that're icelike, and other chunks
that're more dullish, thus the two textures. Works pretty well, I think.
These were both made originally by Moray, then exported, but I've had
editted them extensively.
#declare Snow1 =
texture {
pigment { color rgb 1 }
normal { bozo .75 turbulence .5 }
finish {
ambient 0.1
diffuse 0.539567
brilliance 0.977333
phong 0.2446
phong_size 31.786667
specular 0.165467
roughness 0.466133
}
}
#declare Snow2 =
texture
{
bozo
texture_map
{
[0.0
pigment
{
color rgb <1.0, 1.0, 1.0>
}
normal { bozo .75 turbulence .5 }
finish
{
diffuse 0.50
specular 0.064733
roughness 1.0
}
]
[1.0
pigment
{
color rgb <1.0, 1.0, 1.0>
}
normal { bozo .75 turbulence .5 }
finish
{
ambient 0.1
diffuse 0.654667
brilliance 0.26
phong 0.4
phong_size 25.163333
specular 0.2
roughness 1.0
}
]
}
turbulence 2.0
ramp_wave
scale 0.001
}
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I've rust remembered something that would describe it better: The 'arms' of
the machines in the Matrix(near the end of the movie) would make nice links
for the posts.
>
> > Maybe if you made the crystal more transparent it would look more like
> > crystal.
>
> Maybe. Nice high ior should help too.
And a little bit more reflection...
I've never had dreams like this before. Well.. I did dream of an alien last
week. Weird...
Nekar
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Hi, I'am back !
This image is really beautiful.
(-> background desktop image)
I'll add a bit of criticism (and praises)
* Gosh this is cold, nice color scheme.
* Really love the water (and I would be very interested to see that
code), although it could benefit from a wee bit of depth (transparency).
* I'd like to have a still better feeling of vastness, openness. The
space does feel a bit too square and enclosed to my taste... Some wild
suggestions : wider image ratio (16:9?), change cliff organisation (less
straight, less square, vary height a bit more in background, maybe more
rash variations), remove fence on the far side of water or restrict it
to a precise area (so it doesn't feel so enclosed)(is this really a
fence on the other side ? It looks way too big to me...?)
* Ooooooh, very nice crystal towers.
* Something is slightly bothering me with the viewpoint (is "framing" a
correct english word ?) although I cannot put my finger on it.
* An additional comment on te waterfall : how would it look if it was a
smidgen taller (summit a bit higher then the cliff) ?
* aaaaarrrrgggghhhhhh blue & jpg !!! Does anybody know a way to solve
that ?
* Nice story...
* I am jealous... I never dream like that ;-(
Povingly,
Philippe
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"Philippe Debar" <phd### [at] belgacom net> wrote in message
news:phd### [at] povray org...
> Hi, I'am back !
> * aaaaarrrrgggghhhhhh blue & jpg !!! Does anybody know a way to solve
> that ?
>
Check out the vfaq -
http://www.students.tut.fi/~warp/povVFAQ/filesVFAQ.html#noartifactsinjpeg
Post a reply to this message
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Tom Melly wrote:
>> * aaaaarrrrgggghhhhhh blue & jpg !!! Does anybody know a way to solve
>> that ?
>>
>
>
> Check out the vfaq -
> http://www.students.tut.fi/~warp/povVFAQ/filesVFAQ.html#noartifactsinjpeg
Yeah ! Thanks ! I knew the explaination but knew not of cjpeg. It was a
long time since I checked the vfaq.
Actually, the horrible artifacts I saw were the product of the
newsreader I was using.
I am still in search of a good free one for the mac I am using at work.
Just tested Outlook Express Mac Edition (which I could not set to sort
threaded message by date), Netscape 6 (right now - seems unable to show
messages in a readable form and still unable to read images) &
MT-Newswatcher (still strugling to get ride of horrible image artifacts
and to make it show read message)... any advice ?
Ooops, I do not see a way to set a fu2 p.o.t. on this post... I guess
you'll have to post manually there...
Povingly
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Geoff Wedig <wed### [at] darwin epbi cwru edu> wrote in message
news:3a9d4f40@news.povray.org...
>
> *all* the code? Trust me, you don't want it. It's far from clean. Some
> bits, like the stuff to make walls and arches I'm planning on posting
> somewhere, because I think they'd be generally useful, but most of it I'll
> keep unless people ask.
I was going to ask for code because I didn't understand how the door worked,
but a second read of you explaination fixed that.
Thanks for the snow, I'll see how it works.
Gail
--
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotix co za * System.dat not found. *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Reformat hard drive Y)es O)k *
********************************************************************
* If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 *
********************************************************************
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> This image is really beautiful.
> (-> background desktop image)
Oohh. I'm honoured.
> * Gosh this is cold, nice color scheme.
>
> * Really love the water (and I would be very interested to see that
> code), although it could benefit from a wee bit of depth (transparency).
The icy lake?
#declare Ice=
texture {
// ice
pigment {rgbf <0.95,0.95,1,0.6>}
finish {
ambient 0.3
diffuse 0.6
reflection_type 1
reflection_min 0
reflection_max 0.7
specular 0.6 roughness 0.008
}
}
isosurface {
function {y-4.5-noise3d(x/4,0,z/4)*0.75}
method 2
max_gradient 1.1
contained_by {box {<-18,-15,-90>,<80,10,100>}}
texture {
Ice
normal {
ripples 0.2
scale 0.6
turbulence 0.4
translate <10000,300,-3000>
}
}
interior {ior 1.5}
}
> * I'd like to have a still better feeling of vastness, openness. The
> space does feel a bit too square and enclosed to my taste... Some wild
> suggestions : wider image ratio (16:9?),
I'm thinking about moving the camera slightly to the left, keeping the
look_at the same. Along with a wider ratio should make it feel more open.
>remove fence on the far side of water or restrict it
> to a precise area (so it doesn't feel so enclosed)(is this really a
> fence on the other side ? It looks way too big to me...?)
Yup, is a fence and it's going.
> * Ooooooh, very nice crystal towers.
>
> * An additional comment on te waterfall : how would it look if it was a
> smidgen taller (summit a bit higher then the cliff) ?
it's already a little taller than the cliff. I was worried about it looking
wierd if I made it too high.
> * I am jealous... I never dream like that ;-(
I seldom remember dreams and when I do I usually remember
very short undetailed bits. (This morning I remembered dreaming
about whipping cream, not sure why or in what context...)
Gail
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotix co za * System.dat not found. *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Reformat hard drive Y)es O)k *
********************************************************************
* If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 *
********************************************************************
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Gail Shaw <gsh### [at] monotix co za> wrote:
> Geoff Wedig <wed### [at] darwin epbi cwru edu> wrote in message
> news:3a9d4f40@news.povray.org...
>>
>> *all* the code? Trust me, you don't want it. It's far from clean. Some
>> bits, like the stuff to make walls and arches I'm planning on posting
>> somewhere, because I think they'd be generally useful, but most of it I'll
>> keep unless people ask.
> I was going to ask for code because I didn't understand how the door worked,
> but a second read of you explaination fixed that.
Actually, I've improved the system. Instead of doing intersections of
elements on both sides of the door, I do a single version, and a single
reversed version. The one is no_image and with a reversed lighting system
with the project_through on the mirror plane (actually, on the mirror plane
without the cutout). The other is no_reflection as before. This simplifies
the code and speeds things up somewhat.
Geoff
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Gail Shaw wrote:
> The icy lake?
>
> #declare Ice=
> texture {
> // ice
> pigment {rgbf <0.95,0.95,1,0.6>}
> finish {
> ambient 0.3
> diffuse 0.6
> reflection_type 1
> reflection_min 0
> reflection_max 0.7
> specular 0.6 roughness 0.008
> }
> }
Mmmh, I didn't realise it would be so transparent - er - filtering...
N-ice ;-)
Many thanks for the code
>> * I'd like to have a still better feeling of vastness, openness. The
>> space does feel a bit too square and enclosed to my taste... Some wild
>> suggestions : wider image ratio (16:9?),
>
>
> I'm thinking about moving the camera slightly to the left, keeping the
> look_at the same. Along with a wider ratio should make it feel more open.
:-)
>> remove fence on the far side of water or restrict it
>> to a precise area (so it doesn't feel so enclosed)(is this really a
>> fence on the other side ? It looks way too big to me...?)
>
>
> Yup, is a fence and it's going.
:-)
>> * I am jealous... I never dream like that ;-(
>
>
> I seldom remember dreams and when I do I usually remember
> very short undetailed bits. (This morning I remembered dreaming
> about whipping cream, not sure why or in what context...)
I feel better. This morning I remembered about emptying my car's tank on
a 10' drive... I checked the gauge when I got to my car, happily it was
still filled up. Still I would prefer cream-dreams ;-)
Drifting off-topicingly,
Philippe
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In article <3A9### [at] belgacom net>, Philippe Debar
<phd### [at] belgacom net> wrote:
> MT-Newswatcher (still strugling to get ride of horrible image artifacts
> and to make it show read message)... any advice ?
I'm using MT-NewsWatcher, and don't see any artifacts...but as far as I
can tell, it isn't possible to get it to keep showing read messages
after you have closed a window. :-(
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] mac com, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tag povray org, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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In article <3a9d3b19$1@news.povray.org>, "Thomas Charron"
<tch### [at] ductape net> wrote:
> Unfortionatly, it took a *VERY* long time to render, due to having
> literally thousands of blob objects.
I'm not sure why, but transparent blobs seem to take an extremely long
time to render. Maybe something to do with the ray origin being inside
or close to a surface of the blob...
Thousands of blob objects? Should be just one blob, unless you had
multiple particle systems. I suppose you meant "components".
> IIRC, its part of MegaPOV+.
If you mean the particle_system patch, yes, it is in MegaPOVPlus. It's
available on my web site, though it has been improved over the version
on the web site, and the demo files are even more outdated.
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] mac com, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tag povray org, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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