Hi!

Here is the scene Pic I work on. As always I'm not totally satisfied with
the results. It refuses to look imposing or something like that. Might have
to do with the lighting, the camera position and angle. But since I'm
dreaming of building the whole city of  Torganswall (the capital of my reign
on the world Asgard) or at least more parts of it, I want to look it good as
independent of these things as possible.

Most of the parts are isosurfaces and HFs. It took approx. 6 hours to render
with radiosity and AA 0.3.
The sky definitely needs more work.

Anyway ... please let me know, what you think about it.

Marc-Hendrik

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
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Preview of image 'festung.jpeg.jpg'

"Marc-Hendrik Bremer" <Mar### [at] t-onlinede> wrote in message
news:39cf4500@news.povray.org...
> Hi!
>
> Here is the scene Pic I work on. As always I'm not totally satisfied with
> the results. It refuses to look imposing or something like that. Might
have
> to do with the lighting, the camera position and angle.

For imposing, I'd suggest lowering the camera to eye-level. Not sure if this
will help that much - the place, for a fortified building, looks somehow
cheerful. I'm not sure about the brickwork - is it based on a known
technique?

Post a reply to this message

"Marc-Hendrik Bremer" <Mar### [at] t-onlinede> a écrit dans le
message news: 39cf4500@news.povray.org...
> Hi!
>
> Here is the scene Pic I work on. As always I'm not totally satisfied with
> the results. It refuses to look imposing or something like that.

too symetric. and don't put it right in the center of the picture, better be
a little off-center

Post a reply to this message

"Marc-Hendrik Bremer" wrote:
> Here is the scene Pic I work on.

I like it!

> It refuses to look imposing or something like that.

Like Tom said, try lowering the camera to eye-level.

> I want to look it good as independent of these things as possible.

Hmm... You can't expect to make a building that will look imposing no matter
from which angle it is shown.

The walls could need improvements. Are the stones just lit very brightly or
did you use a slope pattern to place snow on top of them? I don't think snow
will stick to a wall like that. Either it sticks to the whole wall or not at
all (I think). Also, the stones seem to be placed in some blue-greyish
mortar. Try to make the stones more visible and the mortar less visible.

By the way, it's some very nice Danish flags you have there! 8-D

Rune
--
\ Include files, tutorials, 3D images, raytracing jokes,
/ The POV Desktop Theme, and The POV-Ray Logo Contest can
\ all be found at http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated August 7)
/ Also visit http://www.povrayusers.org

Post a reply to this message

"Rune" <run### [at] inamecom> writes:

> "Marc-Hendrik Bremer" wrote:
> > Here is the scene Pic I work on.
> 
> I like it!
> 
> > It refuses to look imposing or something like that.
> 
> Like Tom said, try lowering the camera to eye-level.

Yes, and I would try a larger angle, too (simulating a wide-angle camera).

Thomas


-- 
http://www.thomas.willhalm.de/ (includes pgp key)

Post a reply to this message

I like it, actually.
But... (Always a 'but')
Try lowering the camera-viewpoint (pointing a little bit upwards).
And turn the camera slightly to the side.  It will make things look bigger.
And I think it would be more imposing if you rendered a night-view.  Maybe
with some nice light effects with torches and the moonlight,...

ZK
http://www.povplace.be.tf

"Marc-Hendrik Bremer" <Mar### [at] t-onlinede> schreef in bericht
news:39cf4500@news.povray.org...
> Hi!
>
> Here is the scene Pic I work on. As always I'm not totally satisfied with
> the results. It refuses to look imposing or something like that. Might
have
> to do with the lighting, the camera position and angle. But since I'm
> dreaming of building the whole city of  Torganswall (the capital of my
reign
> on the world Asgard) or at least more parts of it, I want to look it good
as
> independent of these things as possible.
>
> Most of the parts are isosurfaces and HFs. It took approx. 6 hours to
render
> with radiosity and AA 0.3.
> The sky definitely needs more work.
>
> Anyway ... please let me know, what you think about it.
>
> Marc-Hendrik
>
>
>

Post a reply to this message

I agree with all the above.

Also:
    1) widen the pic, move fortress to one side and add an imposing mountain
and precipice.

    2) Darken and add a dramatic sky

    3) Add some props - skulls or bodies on posts, gaurds, statues, perhaps
some ravens....

Mick

BTW - I may be able to help with a raven model.

"Zeger Knaepen" <zeg### [at] yahoocom> wrote in message
news:39cf6d12@news.povray.org...
> I like it, actually.
> But... (Always a 'but')
> Try lowering the camera-viewpoint (pointing a little bit upwards).
> And turn the camera slightly to the side.  It will make things look
bigger.
> And I think it would be more imposing if you rendered a night-view.  Maybe
> with some nice light effects with torches and the moonlight,...
>
> ZK
> http://www.povplace.be.tf
>
> "Marc-Hendrik Bremer" <Mar### [at] t-onlinede> schreef in bericht
> news:39cf4500@news.povray.org...
> > Hi!
> >
> > Here is the scene Pic I work on. As always I'm not totally satisfied
with
> > the results. It refuses to look imposing or something like that. Might
> have
> > to do with the lighting, the camera position and angle. But since I'm
> > dreaming of building the whole city of  Torganswall (the capital of my
> reign
> > on the world Asgard) or at least more parts of it, I want to look it
good
> as
> > independent of these things as possible.
> >
> > Most of the parts are isosurfaces and HFs. It took approx. 6 hours to
> render
> > with radiosity and AA 0.3.
> > The sky definitely needs more work.
> >
> > Anyway ... please let me know, what you think about it.
> >
> > Marc-Hendrik
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Post a reply to this message

Oh and I forgot - change the grey, it's a dead color - have a look at rocks
and stones , they are full of colour, even the grey ones!

Post a reply to this message

nice picture
... my 2 cent


- this thing needs a bigger gate! how can they get whole armies through this
dinky gate
- what about good old - how do you call them - those big water areas around
castles ?
- to much mortar, looks like the stones are far apart in the walls
- dark clouds?

Wolfgang




"Marc-Hendrik Bremer" <Mar### [at] t-onlinede> wrote in message
news:39cf4500@news.povray.org...
> Hi!
>
> Here is the scene Pic I work on. As always I'm not totally satisfied with
> the results. It refuses to look imposing or something like that. Might
have
> to do with the lighting, the camera position and angle. But since I'm
> dreaming of building the whole city of  Torganswall (the capital of my
reign
> on the world Asgard) or at least more parts of it, I want to look it good
as
> independent of these things as possible.
>
> Most of the parts are isosurfaces and HFs. It took approx. 6 hours to
render
> with radiosity and AA 0.3.
> The sky definitely needs more work.
>
> Anyway ... please let me know, what you think about it.
>
> Marc-Hendrik
>
>
>

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:54:38 -0700, Wolfgang Manousek wrote...
> nice picture
> ... my 2 cent
>
>
> - this thing needs a bigger gate! how can they get whole armies through this
> dinky gate

Maybe it's designed to make it harder for opposing forces to get in than 
for your forces to get out.  Which is sort of feasible if it's designed 
and placed to hold a strategic pass until reinforcements can arrive from 
other sources.

> - what about good old - how do you call them - those big water areas around
> castles ?

Moat.

Bye for now,
     Jamie.

Post a reply to this message

>     3) Add some props - skulls or bodies on posts, gaurds, statues, perhaps
> some ravens....

i was thinking about props too.  my thought was to have an abandoned,
maybe broken, wagon close to the wall that shows it is much smaller than
the wall gate.  then, place the cam close to it at eye level, looking up
at the wall.  also, change aspect ratio to portrait rather than
landscape to enhance the 'up looking' of the camera.

Post a reply to this message

i thought he was trying to model a real wall.  if so, he can't
arbitrarily change things from what is real to what we think would be
fantastic.

Jamie Davison wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:54:38 -0700, Wolfgang Manousek wrote...
> > nice picture
> > ... my 2 cent
> >
> >
> > - this thing needs a bigger gate! how can they get whole armies through this
> > dinky gate
> 
> Maybe it's designed to make it harder for opposing forces to get in than
> for your forces to get out.  Which is sort of feasible if it's designed
> and placed to hold a strategic pass until reinforcements can arrive from
> other sources.
> 
> > - what about good old - how do you call them - those big water areas around
> > castles ?
> 
> Moat.
> 
> Bye for now,
>      Jamie.

Post a reply to this message

The fortress utilizes spacious, open, curves with delicate lines and an
intricate surface. Try to emphasize bold, powerful, lines and relentlously
unnatural symmetry. The stones should be large and precise, with mortar use
at a minimum. The wooden frames should be made of heavy timber, something
very strong. Also, utilize sharp, pointy, and chaotic "spikes" along the
edges of different areas to create a bold contrast to the symmetry, and at
the same time hit that primordial fear of sharp teeth. The snow should be
melted and mush around the walls. The walls themselves should be dirtied,
beaten, and unphased. Also, exgagerate your lines and edges to create a
sense of motion, like the entire fortress is trying to swallow you alive.

The camera angle can make a difference, but I don't think that's what you
want. You'd be tied to that camera angle for any image you made. It's
entirely possible to make this very imposing without changing the sky,
lighting, or camera angle.

Oh, and put a pirate ship near it. That will scare me.

D.J.


"Marc-Hendrik Bremer" <Mar### [at] t-onlinede> wrote in message
news:39cf4500@news.povray.org...
> Hi!
>
> Here is the scene Pic I work on. As always I'm not totally satisfied with
> the results. It refuses to look imposing or something like that. Might
have
> to do with the lighting, the camera position and angle. But since I'm
> dreaming of building the whole city of  Torganswall (the capital of my
reign
> on the world Asgard) or at least more parts of it, I want to look it good
as
> independent of these things as possible.
>
> Most of the parts are isosurfaces and HFs. It took approx. 6 hours to
render
> with radiosity and AA 0.3.
> The sky definitely needs more work.
>
> Anyway ... please let me know, what you think about it.
>
> Marc-Hendrik
>
>
>

Post a reply to this message

Lowering the camera helps a bit. I'll probably have to work out more of the
surrounding landscape to make obvious, why this is a good place for the
fortress.
I have indeed seen such a wall a few days ago - but it was a modern one and
only a garden wall. I just don't wanted to build it out of hundreds of
single bricks. So I stuck to the crackle pattern, added another one and made
an isosurface out of it. The brick-pattern seems to be not very useful for
isosurfaces (it is extremely slow if turbulence is used, because it needs
very "low" accuracy). Any suggestions to make the brickwork more regular and
the stones more rectangular?

Marc-Hendrik

Tom Melly schrieb in Nachricht <39cf4f6d$1@news.povray.org>...
>For imposing, I'd suggest lowering the camera to eye-level. Not sure if
this
>will help that much - the place, for a fortified building, looks somehow
>cheerful. I'm not sure about the brickwork - is it based on a known
>technique?
>
>

Post a reply to this message

Yes ok. The cameraposition was more chosen to show the details clearly. An
eye-level shot looks better. I'll make some off-center shots when I find a
good way to make a convincing surrounding landscape.

Marc-Hendrik

John Doe schrieb in Nachricht <39cf5283@news.povray.org>...
>too symetric. and don't put it right in the center of the picture, better
be
>a little off-center

Post a reply to this message

Marc-Hendrik Bremer wrote:

> Hi!

Hi!

I'd say lower the camera more to eye level, move it slightly off to the side,
and increase the FOV (camera angle). Also, I think a different aspect ratio
might suit it, forts are kind of oblong. I'd maybe go for photographic 2:3.

--
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

Rune schrieb in Nachricht <39cf6b2b@news.povray.org>...
>"Marc-Hendrik Bremer" wrote:
>> Here is the scene Pic I work on.
>
>I like it!

Thank you!

>
>> It refuses to look imposing or something like that.
>
>Like Tom said, try lowering the camera to eye-level.
>


Yes.

>> I want to look it good as independent of these things as possible.
>
>Hmm... You can't expect to make a building that will look imposing no
matter
>from which angle it is shown.

That is probably right. It don't have to look imposing from all angels, but
I hope I can make it in a way, that is okay for many camera positions.

>
>The walls could need improvements. Are the stones just lit very brightly or
>did you use a slope pattern to place snow on top of them? I don't think
snow
>will stick to a wall like that. Either it sticks to the whole wall or not
at
>all (I think). Also, the stones seem to be placed in some blue-greyish
>mortar. Try to make the stones more visible and the mortar less visible.
>

There is indeed a slope pattern with snow. Torganswall is located in
everlasting ice, so I thought there should be some snow in the rifts.
Anyway, I reduced the mortar a bit, perhaps not enough yet. Do you know a
way to make a more regular looking wall without using hundreds of bricks?

>By the way, it's some very nice Danish flags you have there! 8-D

:-) Lack of creativity and the Danish flag is good for a procedural texture.

Marc-Hendrik

Post a reply to this message

Perhaps I'll try. For now there is not much to show for the larger angle ...

Marc-Hendrik

Thomas Willhalm schrieb in Nachricht ...
>Yes, and I would try a larger angle, too (simulating a wide-angle camera).
>
>Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Zeger Knaepen schrieb in Nachricht <39cf6d12@news.povray.org>...
>I like it, actually.

Thanks!

>But... (Always a 'but')
>Try lowering the camera-viewpoint (pointing a little bit upwards).


Yes.

>And turn the camera slightly to the side.  It will make things look bigger.


Yes.

>And I think it would be more imposing if you rendered a night-view.  Maybe
>with some nice light effects with torches and the moonlight,...
>

I like the night-views too, but i think i'll try some day shots for the
moment ... well, maybee not.

Marc-Hendrik

Post a reply to this message

Mick Hazelgrove schrieb in Nachricht <39cf71a7@news.povray.org>...
>I agree with all the above.
>
>Also:
>    1) widen the pic, move fortress to one side and add an imposing
mountain
>and precipice.

Yes, that would be good. But I don't know how to make a good landscape for
this. A Hf would work, but the resolution would be a problem. RidgeMFs are
nice but seems to be hard to control. Well, I'll see ...

>
>    2) Darken and add a dramatic sky
>

I'm trying the layered-planes clouds from Sumuel Benge right now. Looks
promising.

>    3) Add some props - skulls or bodies on posts, gaurds, statues, perhaps
>some ravens....
>

I would like to populate the scene with some of the Blobman-Guards I made
and perhaps some others, but it is not that easy to make comvinving winter
clothing for me. Skulls and bodies on posts are out for this fortress
because of culturell reasons. Statues are a good idea perhaps some
gargoyles.

>Mick
>
>BTW - I may be able to help with a raven model.

It would be nice if you could. What is it - a mesh?

Thanks,

Marc-Hendrik

Post a reply to this message

Yes, there is the need of some more "eye-catchers". I'm not sure if I'll use
a wagon, 'cause Torganswall is located in everlasting ice, on the other hand
... anyway it's a nice classic composition that you suggest there.

Marc-Hendrik

ryan constantine schrieb in Nachricht <39CFAE14.2266E09C@yahoo.com>...
>>     3) Add some props - skulls or bodies on posts, gaurds, statues,
perhaps
>> some ravens....
>
>i was thinking about props too.  my thought was to have an abandoned,
>maybe broken, wagon close to the wall that shows it is much smaller than
>the wall gate.  then, place the cam close to it at eye level, looking up
>at the wall.  also, change aspect ratio to portrait rather than
>landscape to enhance the 'up looking' of the camera.

Post a reply to this message

I would like to add some variance in the wall-color but I can't imagine a
way to bound it to every single rock. I changed the overall grey a bit, but
don't know if it really helps.


Mick Hazelgrove schrieb in Nachricht <39cf729a@news.povray.org>...
>Oh and I forgot - change the grey, it's a dead color - have a look at rocks
>and stones , they are full of colour, even the grey ones!
>
>
>
>

Post a reply to this message

Make the wall dirty at the bottom.  The gate looks way too small.  It's
like a one person door.  

Marc-Hendrik Bremer wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Here is the scene Pic I work on. As always I'm not totally satisfied with
> the results. It refuses to look imposing or something like that. Might have
> to do with the lighting, the camera position and angle. But since I'm
> dreaming of building the whole city of  Torganswall (the capital of my reign
> on the world Asgard) or at least more parts of it, I want to look it good as
> independent of these things as possible.
> 
> Most of the parts are isosurfaces and HFs. It took approx. 6 hours to render
> with radiosity and AA 0.3.
> The sky definitely needs more work.
> 
> Anyway ... please let me know, what you think about it.
> 
> Marc-Hendrik
> 
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                    Name: Festung.jpeg
>    Festung.jpeg    Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
>                Encoding: base64

Post a reply to this message

Wolfgang Manousek schrieb in Nachricht <39cf7501@news.povray.org>...
>nice picture


Thanks!

>... my 2 cent
>

... are very wellcome.

>- this thing needs a bigger gate! how can they get whole armies through
this
>dinky gate

Hm, it is 4 m wide and 5.8 m high. That might be indeed a bit small. Perhaps
I'll make another main-gate and leave this as a side-gate.

>- what about good old - how do you call them - those big water areas around
>castles ?

It would probably freeze in this location, which is both high and cold. But
perhaps I will add a precipice with the same effect. That will probably lead
to a drawbridge.


>- to much mortar, looks like the stones are far apart in the walls

Yes. Any idea for another wallpatern?

>- dark clouds?

Yes.

Marc-Hendrik

Post a reply to this message

ryan constantine schrieb in Nachricht <39CFAE78.E52ACB45@yahoo.com>...
>i thought he was trying to model a real wall.  if so, he can't
>arbitrarily change things from what is real to what we think would be
>fantastic.
>
Oh ... no, sorry. I "know" some thinks about Torganswall: It's the capitol
of a state with lots of everlasting ice. It has about 10000 citizens and is
located near the top of a mountain or even a glacier. It is heavily
fortified. there are leading some streets to it. The state worships the gods
of light and order. Other than that I'm totally free in constructing the
city.

Marc-Hendrik

Post a reply to this message

Good analysis. I'll probably make another "evil" fortress one day but this
one worships the gods of light. Hm, at least for me that means it has to be
build as a location where it is worth living :-)
I don't know - there are real cathedrals and other buildings which are
imposing without looking fearsome.

No pirate ships!

Marc-Hendrik

D.J. Brown schrieb in Nachricht <39cfcbfa@news.povray.org>...
>The fortress utilizes spacious, open, curves with delicate lines and an
>intricate surface. Try to emphasize bold, powerful, lines and relentlously
>unnatural symmetry. The stones should be large and precise, with mortar use
>at a minimum. The wooden frames should be made of heavy timber, something
>very strong. Also, utilize sharp, pointy, and chaotic "spikes" along the
>edges of different areas to create a bold contrast to the symmetry, and at
>the same time hit that primordial fear of sharp teeth. The snow should be
>melted and mush around the walls. The walls themselves should be dirtied,
>beaten, and unphased. Also, exgagerate your lines and edges to create a
>sense of motion, like the entire fortress is trying to swallow you alive.
>
>The camera angle can make a difference, but I don't think that's what you
>want. You'd be tied to that camera angle for any image you made. It's
>entirely possible to make this very imposing without changing the sky,
>lighting, or camera angle.
>
>Oh, and put a pirate ship near it. That will scare me.
>
>D.J.
>

Post a reply to this message

Nick Portelli schrieb in Nachricht <39CFDEDC.20D9FCB5@pilot.msu.edu>...
>Make the wall dirty at the bottom.  The gate looks way too small.  It's
>like a one person door.
>


It is 4m wide and 5.8 m high, which is approx. the size of a nearby
"Gutshof" (farm-house??). Might be a side-gate in the future.

Marc-Hendrik

Post a reply to this message

the problem with this is that outer wall surfaces should be pretty
smooth.  at least to the point where average joe wouldn't be able to
scale it unaided.  you'd be surprised how small a handhold/foothold
needs to be in order to scale something.  i would guess that rock should
stick out less than a centimeter from the mortar.  this would also make
it difficult for ice or snow to "lay" on it.  ice may very well be on
the wall, but more the clear kind, not the white kind, and it would sort
of look like thin frozen waterfalls all over the wall.  i hope that
imagery makes sense. oh, one last thing, the gaps between the stones
shouldn't be that noticable from that distance.  we should see the many
stones the wall is made of, just not the gaps.

Marc-Hendrik Bremer wrote:
> 
> Rune schrieb in Nachricht <39cf6b2b@news.povray.org>...
> >"Marc-Hendrik Bremer" wrote:
> >> Here is the scene Pic I work on.
> >
> >I like it!
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> >
> >> It refuses to look imposing or something like that.
> >
> >Like Tom said, try lowering the camera to eye-level.
> >
> 
> Yes.
> 
> >> I want to look it good as independent of these things as possible.
> >
> >Hmm... You can't expect to make a building that will look imposing no
> matter
> >from which angle it is shown.
> 
> That is probably right. It don't have to look imposing from all angels, but
> I hope I can make it in a way, that is okay for many camera positions.
> 
> >
> >The walls could need improvements. Are the stones just lit very brightly or
> >did you use a slope pattern to place snow on top of them? I don't think
> snow
> >will stick to a wall like that. Either it sticks to the whole wall or not
> at
> >all (I think). Also, the stones seem to be placed in some blue-greyish
> >mortar. Try to make the stones more visible and the mortar less visible.
> >
> 
> There is indeed a slope pattern with snow. Torganswall is located in
> everlasting ice, so I thought there should be some snow in the rifts.
> Anyway, I reduced the mortar a bit, perhaps not enough yet. Do you know a
> way to make a more regular looking wall without using hundreds of bricks?
> 
> >By the way, it's some very nice Danish flags you have there! 8-D
> 
> :-) Lack of creativity and the Danish flag is good for a procedural texture.
> 
> Marc-Hendrik

Post a reply to this message

"Marc-Hendrik Bremer" <Mar### [at] t-onlinede> wrote...
> Thomas Willhalm schrieb in Nachricht ...
> >Yes, and I would try a larger angle, too (simulating a wide-angle
camera).
> >
> Perhaps I'll try. For now there is not much to show for the larger angle
...
>

Then move the camera closer to the fortress.  The wider the angle, the
bigger the building will look (within reason, of course).

-Nathan

Post a reply to this message

ryan constantine wrote in message <39CFF2D7.D6403E1C@yahoo.com>...
>the problem with this is that outer wall surfaces should be pretty
>smooth.  at least to the point where average joe wouldn't be able to
>scale it unaided.  you'd be surprised how small a handhold/foothold
>needs to be in order to scale something.  i would guess that rock should
>stick out less than a centimeter from the mortar.

A whole centimeter?  Why not just carve a ladder into the wall and have done
with it!

Mark

Post a reply to this message

Yes, but first, work out that mortar:brick ratio. Moving closer as it is
will not do much for imposing.

Grim

"Nathan Kopp" <Nat### [at] Koppcom> wrote in message
news:39cff940@news.povray.org...
>
> "Marc-Hendrik Bremer" <Mar### [at] t-onlinede> wrote...
> > Thomas Willhalm schrieb in Nachricht ...
> > >Yes, and I would try a larger angle, too (simulating a wide-angle
> camera).
> > >
> > Perhaps I'll try. For now there is not much to show for the larger angle
> ...
> >
>
> Then move the camera closer to the fortress.  The wider the angle, the
> bigger the building will look (within reason, of course).
>
> -Nathan
>
>

Post a reply to this message

Marc-Hendrik Bremer wrote:
> 
> I would like to add some variance in the wall-color but I can't imagine a
> way to bound it to every single rock. I changed the overall grey a bit, but
> don't know if it really helps.
> 
	You might try using a crackle solid pigment to give individual colors
to the stones (if you use the same parameters for the pigment as for the
isosurface, they should correspond and "solid" will ensure that each one
has a single color).

		Jérôme
-- 
******************************* Jérôme M. BERGER
* Doctor Jekyll had something * mailto:ber### [at] inamecom
* to Hyde...                  * http://www.enst.fr/~jberger
*******************************

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Marc-Hendrik Bremer wrote:
> 
> There is indeed a slope pattern with snow. Torganswall is located in
> everlasting ice, so I thought there should be some snow in the rifts.
> Anyway, I reduced the mortar a bit, perhaps not enough yet. Do you know a
> way to make a more regular looking wall without using hundreds of bricks?
> 
	Try playing with the form keyword...

		Jérôme
-- 
******************************* Jérôme M. BERGER
* Doctor Jekyll had something * mailto:ber### [at] inamecom
* to Hyde...                  * http://www.enst.fr/~jberger
*******************************

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I tried it once but as the brick-pattern it seems to take forever to render,
so I abandoned this idea, too.

Marc-Hendrik

Jérôme Berger schrieb in Nachricht <39D06873.FD23359A@enst.fr>...

> Try playing with the form keyword...
>
> Jérôme

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Well it is probably not that easy for the bad guys to climb the wall when
there are the good guys at the top of the wall. But you are right that most
of the epic literature suggests smooth surfaces. OTOH those medieval walls I
saw jet has not been that smooth. Might have been the time which carved its
signs in the wall. But it's not that easy to build and maintain that smooth
walls, is it?

But the longer I think about those walls, the more I think there has to be
another way to build them. How to make regular irregularity? :-)

Marc-Hendrik

ryan constantine schrieb in Nachricht <39CFF2D7.D6403E1C@yahoo.com>...
>the problem with this is that outer wall surfaces should be pretty
>smooth.  at least to the point where average joe wouldn't be able to
>scale it unaided.  you'd be surprised how small a handhold/foothold
>needs to be in order to scale something.  i would guess that rock should
>stick out less than a centimeter from the mortar.  this would also make
>it difficult for ice or snow to "lay" on it.  ice may very well be on
>the wall, but more the clear kind, not the white kind, and it would sort
>of look like thin frozen waterfalls all over the wall.  i hope that
>imagery makes sense. oh, one last thing, the gaps between the stones
>shouldn't be that noticable from that distance.  we should see the many
>stones the wall is made of, just not the gaps.

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On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:37:14 +0200, Marc-Hendrik Bremer wrote:
>I tried it once but as the brick-pattern it seems to take forever to render,
>so I abandoned this idea, too.

Odd, it shouldn't.  Metric is the only keyword that should significantly 
increase render times.

-- 
Ron Parker   http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/traces.html
My opinions.  Mine.  Not anyone else's.
Proudly not helping RIAA and SDMI steal my rights -- 
  http://www.eff.org/Misc/EFF/Newsletters/EFFector/HTML/effect13.08.html

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Oops, I tried it again and of course you are right. Form does not slow
things down, so I'll see if I can get a good result with it.

Marc-Hendrik

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On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 22:24:01 +0200, Marc-Hendrik Bremer wrote:
>Oops, I tried it again and of course you are right. Form does not slow
>things down, so I'll see if I can get a good result with it.

I'm not sure what value of form would help in this case, though.  To change
the shape of the bricks in any meaningful way pretty much requires metric.

-- 
Ron Parker   http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/traces.html
My opinions.  Mine.  Not anyone else's.
Proudly not helping RIAA and SDMI steal my rights -- 
  http://www.eff.org/Misc/EFF/Newsletters/EFFector/HTML/effect13.08.html

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Ron Parker wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 22:24:01 +0200, Marc-Hendrik Bremer wrote:
> >Oops, I tried it again and of course you are right. Form does not slow
> >things down, so I'll see if I can get a good result with it.
> 
> I'm not sure what value of form would help in this case, though.  To change
> the shape of the bricks in any meaningful way pretty much requires metric.
> 
	Yes, excuse me i was indeed thinking of metric when I said form...

		Jérôme
-- 
******************************* Jérôme M. BERGER
* Doctor Jekyll had something * mailto:ber### [at] inamecom
* to Hyde...                  * http://www.enst.fr/~jberger
*******************************

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Ron Parker wrote:
> I'm not sure what value of form would help in this case, though.
> To change the shape of the bricks in any meaningful way pretty much
> requires metric.

I think part of the problem is that only low walls are commonly made of
such randomly-arranged rocks.  Stretching the pattern laterally (scale
<0.2,0.07,0.2>) seems to help a bit, in this very crude sketch.

But yeah, the walls ought to be smooth.  Romanesque churches have smooth
walls, a fort can too.  The lumpy `walls' you see in a lot of ruins are
the rubble core of the original walls: their surfaces were smooth.


-- 
Anton Sherwood  --  http://www.ogre.nu/

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