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Something I've been working on for the last few days.
It was originally inspired by the tropical lionfish, then by insects,
and now I've been told it looks like an umbrella. Ah well...
The cylindrical hull is just a junk object, to give a sense of the size
of the final hull. Most of the model is untextured.
Suggestions?
Simon
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Attachments:
Download 'strutssail.jpg' (52 KB)
Download 'strutsfront.jpg' (52 KB)
Download 'strutsrear.jpg' (51 KB)
Preview of image 'strutssail.jpg'
Preview of image 'strutsfront.jpg'
Preview of image 'strutsrear.jpg'
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Quick, Robin, to the Batspaceship!
Hm, perhaps someday I'll dust off the old sketches (~1979) of a flying
animal dubbed the `squidbat', whose skeleton is loosely based on a human
hand.
--
Anton Sherwood -- br0### [at] p0b0x com -- http://ogre.nu/
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impressive detail, just make sure the next flyby you do, flies real close
(to show off your work!!)
Rick
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Really neat stuff, I hadn't guessed from your animation it was that
detailed. The lionfish texturing is strange, but adds that organic quality
to a otherwise mechanical-only object.
Bob
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Bob Hughes wrote:
> Really neat stuff, I hadn't guessed from your animation it was that
> detailed. The lionfish texturing is strange, but adds that organic quality
> to a otherwise mechanical-only object.
:)
That's probably because my flyby wasn't that detailed. Most of this work was
done late (11:00pm - 3:30am) on saturday night.
I like the texturing too... I don't have any rigorous explanation for why it
would be painted liek that, but anything else looks weird.
Simon
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Great detail, Simon. Way to go!
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Simon de Vet wrote:
>
> Something I've been working on for the last few days.
>
> It was originally inspired by the tropical lionfish, then by insects,
> and now I've been told it looks like an umbrella. Ah well...
>
> The cylindrical hull is just a junk object, to give a sense of the size
> of the final hull. Most of the model is untextured.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Simon
>
I remembered having seen something similar in a star trek episode some time ago
and did some research:
http://clgray.simplenet.com/strtrk/stpics/otherstr/lightship.jpg
Not a very good picture, but i did not find anything better. Maybe there are
some inspirations for you.
Your model seems to lack some sort of steering sail, but the detail work near
the center is really impressive.
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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Christoph Hormann wrote:
> I remembered having seen something similar in a star trek episode some time ago
> and did some research:
>
> http://clgray.simplenet.com/strtrk/stpics/otherstr/lightship.jpg
I've seen this, but I'm trying to avoid it as much as possible. I posted my images
on www.scifi-art.com, and was told that mine was one of the first solar sails that
wasn't a derivative of the trek sail. I like the ship a lot, though...
> Your model seems to lack some sort of steering sail, but the detail work near
> the center is really impressive.
I've been debating this a bit on www.scifi-art.com. Some think that a solar
'rudder' would not work, and others that it would work, but would require a huge
turning radius (couple of lightyears. Ouch.). Some have reccomended chemical
thrusters for navigation, but I'd rather stick to light as much as possible.
Anyone have steering ideas?
Simon
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In article <39B323A3.7548E644@istar.ca>, sde### [at] istarca wrote:
> Something I've been working on for the last few days.
>
> It was originally inspired by the tropical lionfish, then by insects,
> and now I've been told it looks like an umbrella. Ah well...
>
> The cylindrical hull is just a junk object, to give a sense of the size
> of the final hull. Most of the model is untextured.
Nice! I don't think it resembles an umbrella much...but it does seem out
of scale. To get useable propulsion from the solar wind, the sails
should be *much* larger, like 10-50 times.
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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Simon de Vet wrote:
[...]
> I've been debating this a bit on www.scifi-art.com. Some think that a solar
> 'rudder' would not work, and others that it would work, but would require a huge
> turning radius (couple of lightyears. Ouch.). Some have reccomended chemical
> thrusters for navigation, but I'd rather stick to light as much as possible.
>
> Anyone have steering ideas?
>
I think a 'rudder' would not work, but some kind of third sail in the front,
more flexible than the two main sails would be worth trying.
BTW, the total shape of the sails probably has to be highly symmetrical if it
sould be realistic. Both your model and the star trek model have some vertical
asymmetry, that makes it look impressive but unable to fly a straight course.
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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Simon de Vet wrote:
>Anyone have steering ideas?
Wouldn't openening, closing and trimming the sails be enough? Like a quad
line steerd kite?
My first association was "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang", sorry for that.
Ingo
--
Photography: http://members.home.nl/ingoogni/
Pov-Ray : http://members.home.nl/seed7/
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Chris Huff wrote:
> Nice! I don't think it resembles an umbrella much...but it does seem out
> of scale. To get useable propulsion from the solar wind, the sails
> should be *much* larger, like 10-50 times.
Is it the total size that important, or the hull:sail ratio?
While there are no overt scale indications, I've been thinking of the hull as
about 500m long, making the sails several kilometers across.
Simon
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Simon de Vet wrote:
>
> Is it the total size that important, or the hull:sail ratio?
>
> While there are no overt scale indications, I've been thinking of the hull as
> about 500m long, making the sails several kilometers across.
>
IMO, it's the total weight/sail area ratio, but i don't know concrete values for
that.
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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Good to see you getting into the Sci-Fi Art Forums, Mr NLT. :)
Seriously, this looks really cool, and I didn't catch that it was you when
I first saw it on the forums.
Keep up the good work.
H.E. Day
<><
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Fun, I wanna ride! Where do I sign?
--
David Fontaine <dav### [at] faricynet> ICQ 55354965
Please visit my website: http://davidf.faricy.net/
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In article <39B3DBF0.17181376@istar.ca>, sde### [at] istarca wrote:
> Is it the total size that important, or the hull:sail ratio?
I think it is neither of those, but sail:mass ratio. You need a lot of
sail to accelerate a kilo of mass at a reasonable speed. This might be
useful for computer-controlled shipments between the inner planets,
Mercury and Venus, possibly Earth, where it doesn't matter if it takes
several years to travel, and cost is the primary problem. For the
planets further out, I doubt it would be useful even for those uses.
Besides, ships in the outer planets region have plenty of hydrogen fuel
for fusion drives available...just make a close pass to Jupiter or
Titan, and scoop up some of the atmosphere on your way by.
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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Simon de Vet wrote:
> Something I've been working on for the last few days.
>
> It was originally inspired by the tropical lionfish, then by insects,
> and now I've been told it looks like an umbrella. Ah well...
I like these sails very much.
How are they done ? Isosurfaces... or ...Blobs ?
Please explain.
> The cylindrical hull is just a junk object, to give a sense of the size
> of the final hull. Most of the model is untextured.
>
> Suggestions?
Maybe you could make a cylindrical hole in the
cylindrical hull. And then maybe round off the
rims of the cylinders with some torii (?)
Tor Olav
--
mailto:tor### [at] hotmailcom
http://www.crosswinds.net/~tok/tokrays.html
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H. E. Day wrote:
> Good to see you getting into the Sci-Fi Art Forums, Mr NLT. :)
> Seriously, this looks really cool, and I didn't catch that it was you when
> I first saw it on the forums.
Yeah.. I figured that Simon would already be taken, so I went with my old IRC
name [1].
> Keep up the good work.
Thanks!
BTW, I've noticed that you've been posting a lot to the scifi forums that
you've been keeping secret from us :)
Simon
[1] Stands for 'NotLikeTea' [2]
[2] Bonus points if anyone gets the reference.
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Here's a simpler NASA design:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap000526.html
Simon de Vet wrote:
> Anyone have steering ideas?
Offhand: Make the sail in three pie-sectors. Rotate the whole,
slowly. Retract the sail on the side toward which you want to turn.
--
Anton Sherwood -- br0### [at] p0b0xcom -- http://ogre.nu/
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On Mon, 04 Sep 2000 11:19:31 -0300, Simon de Vet wrote:
>
>
>Anyone have steering ideas?
>
Make the sails collapsible, or make it possible to turn one of them inside
out if you know what I mean, as if you could push one side of an umbrella
outwards and still have the other half rigid against the wind. This sort
of design would only require the simplest of machinery and would make
turning very quick, and if quick enough then there need only be one set
of collapsible sales, you could always turn in the same direction and
just stop turning when you're facing the right direction.
--
Cheers
Steve email mailto:ste### [at] zeroppsuklinuxnet
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps.
web http://www.zeropps.uklinux.net/
or http://start.at/zero-pps
8:48pm up 14 days, 1:06, 3 users, load average: 1.16, 1.10, 1.08
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In article <39B40FF7.5EAD3DC8@istar.ca>, sde### [at] istarca wrote:
> Yeah.. I figured that Simon would already be taken, so I went with my old
> IRC name [1].
> [1] Stands for 'NotLikeTea' [2]
I remember seeing you on #povray...have you been there lately? I drop by
every once in a while...
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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Looks Deadly... O)
If umbrellas could kill...?
Simon de Vet wrote:
> Something I've been working on for the last few days.
>
> It was originally inspired by the tropical lionfish, then by insects,
> and now I've been told it looks like an umbrella. Ah well...
>
> The cylindrical hull is just a junk object, to give a sense of the size
> of the final hull. Most of the model is untextured.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Simon
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Image] [Image] [Image]
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Wonderful work, sir. I think of pearl-like wings/sails, when I contemplate
the solar wind.
Fine handywork.
Grim
"Simon de Vet" <sde### [at] istarca> wrote in message
news:39B323A3.7548E644@istar.ca...
> Suggestions?
>
>
> Simon
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I'll show It when It's done!
No peekies!
H.E. Day
<><
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Simon de Vet wrote in message <39B40FF7.5EAD3DC8@istar.ca>...
>[1] Stands for 'NotLikeTea' [2]
>[2] Bonus points if anyone gets the reference.
From "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", referring to a device that
invariably produces a beverage almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.
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The level of detail is impressive.
It provides inspiration for my work, in that my stuff often looks crappier
because I don't give it enough detail to look like a real "thing."
Simon de Vet wrote:
> Something I've been working on for the last few days.
>
> It was originally inspired by the tropical lionfish, then by insects,
> and now I've been told it looks like an umbrella. Ah well...
>
> The cylindrical hull is just a junk object, to give a sense of the size
> of the final hull. Most of the model is untextured.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Simon
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Image] [Image] [Image]
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Simon de Vet wrote:
> Anyone have steering ideas?
Holes in each sail that open or close like a shutter. If one wants to turn, close or
open shutters on one side or another, to provide differential thrust.
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"Simon de Vet" <sde### [at] istarca> wrote in message
news:39B3AF73.66532F1F@istar.ca...
>
>
> Anyone have steering ideas?
>
Well, the obvious suggestions have been made. Of course, they are likely to
be very slow.
A bit faster, and could be done by muscle-power or solar-power, would be to
turn it by rotating a heavy vertical shaft inside the ship for "left" and
"right" and a horizontal shaft for "up" and "down". The ship would then
orientate itself in the opposite direction to the one you were turning. Of
course, the sails might crumple a bit during turning depending on various
factors. This could be alleviated by combining it with one of the more
conventional methods, which would keep the sails filled during the turning.
Did that make sense?
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On Sun, 03 Sep 2000 17:41:55 -0700, SomeGuy wrote:
>Looks Deadly... O)
>If umbrellas could kill...?
>
IIRC in the 80s there was a Bulgarian diplomat who got killed
(or was it him doing the killing), in London with a poison tipped
umbrella.
--
Cheers
Steve email mailto:ste### [at] zeroppsuklinuxnet
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps.
web http://www.zeropps.uklinux.net/
or http://start.at/zero-pps
2:20pm up 14 days, 18:38, 2 users, load average: 1.08, 1.02, 1.01
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On Mon, 04 Sep 2000 11:19:31 -0300, Simon de Vet wrote...
> Anyone have steering ideas?
Erm, Solar sails aren't really massively steerable, unless you can find
another source of light pressure to fly away from. So you fly from star
to star, hoping to god that you get your exit vector right in order to
get to the next one...
Not strictly relevant, but IIRC Larry Niven used light sails to get
bussard ramships up to sufficient speed for their ramscoops to start
functioning efficiently in his Known Space stories.
I suppose you could use *big* lateral steering motors to give you some
fine control over direction of travel, but doing a u-turn is none too
practical, or even possible.
Whoops, starting to waffle, and besides I need to go to bed since I start
my new job on the morrow (Which means this won't be sent until Tuesday
evening, despite being written Monday evening)
Bye for now,
Jamie.
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On Mon, 04 Sep 2000 18:11:19 -0300, Simon de Vet wrote...
> [1] Stands for 'NotLikeTea' [2]
> [2] Bonus points if anyone gets the reference.
Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy trilogy (in five
books) with the vending machine which invariably dispenses a liquid
'almost, but not entirely unlike tea'
Close? Or no cigar?
Bye for now,
Jamie.
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In article <MPG.141e35b960a36cdc9897b5@news.povray.org>,
jam### [at] dh70qdu-netcom (Jamie Davison) wrote:
> Erm, Solar sails aren't really massively steerable, unless you can find
> another source of light pressure to fly away from. So you fly from star
> to star, hoping to god that you get your exit vector right in order to
> get to the next one...
If you stay within a solar system and don't reach escape velocity, you
can just use the gravity of the sun or the nearest convenient planet to
turn around. I don't know how useful solar sails would be outside solar
systems.
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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On 5 Sep 2000 14:22:03 -0400, Steve wrote...
> >Looks Deadly... O)
> >If umbrellas could kill...?
> >
>
> IIRC in the 80s there was a Bulgarian diplomat who got killed
> (or was it him doing the killing), in London with a poison tipped
> umbrella.
IT was a Bulgarian Broadcaster on the BBC world service, I forget his
name.
The Umbrella was used to inject him with a small (1mm or less diameter, I
forget off the top of my head) platinum sphere with holes drilled in it,
filled with Ricin (a rather nasty toxin derived from the Castor plant)
IIRC he died a day or so after being injected from respiratory failure.
Bye for now,
Jamie.
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On 5 Sep 2000 14:22:03 -0400, ste### [at] zeroppsuklinuxnet (Steve) wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Sep 2000 17:41:55 -0700, SomeGuy wrote:
>>Looks Deadly... O)
>>If umbrellas could kill...?
>IIRC in the 80s there was a Bulgarian diplomat who got killed
>(or was it him doing the killing), in London with a poison tipped
>umbrella.
The name you're looking for is George Markov. He didn't have any
diplomatic post that I have heard, he was a journalist who was forced
to leave the country for his "inconvenience". Rumour is he was an
agent of an intelligence or two.
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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I was thinking of rutter like paddled extensions like a old viking ship... Using more
of an airfoil/wind surfer method for steering...?
Could you post or send the code for the sail...?
I'm stuck as to how you do this... It is hand code...?
Simon de Vet wrote:
> Christoph Hormann wrote:
>
> > I remembered having seen something similar in a star trek episode some time ago
> > and did some research:
> >
> > http://clgray.simplenet.com/strtrk/stpics/otherstr/lightship.jpg
>
> I've seen this, but I'm trying to avoid it as much as possible. I posted my images
> on www.scifi-art.com, and was told that mine was one of the first solar sails that
> wasn't a derivative of the trek sail. I like the ship a lot, though...
>
> > Your model seems to lack some sort of steering sail, but the detail work near
> > the center is really impressive.
>
> I've been debating this a bit on www.scifi-art.com. Some think that a solar
> 'rudder' would not work, and others that it would work, but would require a huge
> turning radius (couple of lightyears. Ouch.). Some have reccomended chemical
> thrusters for navigation, but I'd rather stick to light as much as possible.
>
> Anyone have steering ideas?
>
> Simon
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Chris Huff wrote:
> If you stay within a solar system and don't reach escape velocity, you
> can just use the gravity of the sun or the nearest convenient planet to
> turn around. I don't know how useful solar sails would be outside solar
> systems.
A few years ago Arthur C. Clark wrote a book on the subject. One of
the articles mentioned intersteller travel using solars sails with
the assitance of space based sun driven laser systems. The speculation
was that it is possible to not only drive a craft to a nearby star
with a laser but it is also possible to return it with the same
system. You can use tacking (just like in sailing against the wind)
for the return trip. It would naturaly take longer to return but
it is technically feasable.
--
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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Mark Wagner wrote:
> Simon de Vet wrote in message <39B40FF7.5EAD3DC8@istar.ca>...
> >[1] Stands for 'NotLikeTea' [2]
> >[2] Bonus points if anyone gets the reference.
>
> From "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", referring to a device that
> invariably produces a beverage almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.
Made by Cirius Cybernetics?
--
David Fontaine <dav### [at] faricynet> ICQ 55354965
Please visit my website: http://davidf.faricy.net/
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On Tue, 05 Sep 2000 23:27:00 +0300, Peter Popov wrote:
>On 5 Sep 2000 14:22:03 -0400, ste### [at] zeroppsuklinuxnet (Steve) wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 03 Sep 2000 17:41:55 -0700, SomeGuy wrote:
>>>Looks Deadly... O)
>>>If umbrellas could kill...?
>
>>IIRC in the 80s there was a Bulgarian diplomat who got killed
>>(or was it him doing the killing), in London with a poison tipped
>>umbrella.
>
>The name you're looking for is George Markov. He didn't have any
>diplomatic post that I have heard, he was a journalist who was forced
>to leave the country for his "inconvenience". Rumour is he was an
>agent of an intelligence or two.
>
I seem to remember there being some involvment with the East German
Secret Police. It was really big news at the time, they were
talking about the James Bond type killing etc.
--
Cheers
Steve email mailto:ste### [at] zeroppsuklinuxnet
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps.
web http://www.zeropps.uklinux.net/
or http://start.at/zero-pps
11:24am up 15 days, 15:37, 3 users, load average: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00
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On Tue, 05 Sep 2000 22:27:06 -0500, David Fontaine wrote...
> > >[1] Stands for 'NotLikeTea' [2]
> > >[2] Bonus points if anyone gets the reference.
> >
> > From "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", referring to a device that
> > invariably produces a beverage almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.
>
> Made by Cirius Cybernetics?
Sirius Cybernetics With their motto, of either 'Share and Enjoy' Or, and
I much prefer this one - 'Go Stick Your Head In A Pig'
<grin>
Bye for now,
Jamie.
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Nice attention to detail.
Ken Matassa
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Jamie Davison wrote:
> Erm, Solar sails aren't really massively steerable, unless you can find
> another source of light pressure to fly away from.
The transfer of momentum to/from a reflected photon, and thus the force
of light-pressure on the sail, is perpendicular to the sail. You steer
by changing the angle of the sail to the sun.
For maximum efficiency, i guess the sail needs to be flat.
--
Anton Sherwood -- br0### [at] p0b0xcom -- http://ogre.nu/
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Ken wrote:
> A few years ago Arthur C. Clark wrote a book on the subject. One of
> the articles mentioned intersteller travel using solars sails with
> the assitance of space based sun driven laser systems. The speculation
> was that it is possible to not only drive a craft to a nearby star
> with a laser but it is also possible to return it with the same
> system. You can use tacking (just like in sailing against the wind)
> for the return trip. It would naturaly take longer to return but
> it is technically feasable.
Against the `wind' *and* against the gravity of the star at the other
end?
In Robert Forward's _The Flight of the Dragonfly_ / _Rocheworld_, the
ship jettisons part of its sail when it approaches the target, and uses
light reflected from that part to brake.
--
Anton Sherwood -- br0### [at] p0b0xcom -- http://ogre.nu/
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