Inspired by Rune's pigment tricks, I tried some ice swimming on water.  

The scene contains 2 heightfields, the mountains are RMF, the ice is made with
Rune's code slightly modified.  

Comments welcome, I am not content with the textures, anyone who has experience
with icy materials ? 

Christoph

--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

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"Christoph Hormann" wrote:
> Inspired by Rune's pigment tricks, I tried some ice swimming on water.
>
> The scene contains 2 heightfields, the mountains are RMF, the ice is made
with
> Rune's code slightly modified.

I love it! It's a great example of the possibilities with that pattern
control trick, and it's also a great image in general!

I can't think of any way to improve the ice and the mountains, but the water
could need some more work.

A penguin or another animal could be the final touch.

Greetings,

Rune
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In article <397B6FAA.67A47BBF@schunter.etc.tu-bs.de>, 
chr### [at] gmxde wrote:

> Comments welcome, I am not content with the textures, anyone who has 
> experience with icy materials ? 

Well, for one thing, the water is far too reflective...it should be 
darker, with larger waves, the current waves look far too small and the 
color shouldn't be so blue. You need more lighting on the shaded sides 
of the snow, the colors of snow and ice seem to be highly affected by 
the surroundings in my experience. Radiosity could help here, and maybe 
some fill lights.

As for the ice...it would help if it were a bit translucent. Currently, 
it just doesn't have any depth...it looks like painted blocks of foam. 
The only way I can think of to help this would be to mess with partly 
transparent textures and media...translucency is not easy to do. Also, 
you have some very narrow spikes of ice which would certainly tip over 
in real life, and you need more debris, small bits of ice and slush in 
the water.
Still, it is a very good start...I like the shore. This certainly has 
some potential for an interesting scene.

Maybe a viewpoint closer to one of the ice floes, with footprints across 
the top of the floe, or a hat and glove sitting on top. :-)

-- 
Christopher James Huff - Personal e-mail: chr### [at] maccom
TAG(Technical Assistance Group) e-mail: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
Personal Web page: http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
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OK, admit it, you just got back from a trip to Alaska and want to show
off your photos. Actualy, the hills in the background are fantastic. The
water color is way off from what I've seen from photos of the Artic.
Probubly should be grey in color. Other than that, great work!

Ken Matassa

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And i second that...

Chriss Huff Wrote:

Also, you have some very narrow spikes of ice which would certainly tip
over
in real life, and you need more debris, small bits of ice and slush in
the water.

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A polar bear... =)

Rune wrote:

> A penguin or another animal could be the final touch.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Rune
> --
> Updated July 23: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
> 3D images, include files, stereograms, tutorials,
> The POV Desktop Theme, The POV-Ray Logo Contest,
> music, 350+ raytracing jokes, and much more!

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With a Coca Cola Bottle..,

Moon47 wrote:

> A polar bear... =)
>
> Rune wrote:
>
> > A penguin or another animal could be the final touch.
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Rune
> > --
> > Updated July 23: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
> > 3D images, include files, stereograms, tutorials,
> > The POV Desktop Theme, The POV-Ray Logo Contest,
> > music, 350+ raytracing jokes, and much more!

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Ok, that just looks good (the mountains).  How did you do those?  I love
how the snow sort matches the hillside and has texture.

Yann
Christoph Hormann wrote:
> 
> Inspired by Rune's pigment tricks, I tried some ice swimming on water.
> 
> The scene contains 2 heightfields, the mountains are RMF, the ice is made with
> Rune's code slightly modified.
> 
> Comments welcome, I am not content with the textures, anyone who has experience
> with icy materials ?
> 
> Christoph
> 
> --
> Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
> Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
> 
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  [Image]

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Moon47 wrote:
> 
> With a Coca Cola Bottle..,
> 
> Moon47 wrote:
> 
> > A polar bear... =)
> >
> > Rune wrote:
> >
> > > A penguin or another animal could be the final touch.
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > Rune

Thanks to both Rune And Moon47, i will think about an animal, even though i
never modelled something like that and i hate using other peoples' models :-)

Christoph

--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

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Chris Huff wrote:
> 
> Well, for one thing, the water is far too reflective...it should be
> darker, with larger waves, the current waves look far too small and the
> color shouldn't be so blue. You need more lighting on the shaded sides
> of the snow, the colors of snow and ice seem to be highly affected by
> the surroundings in my experience. Radiosity could help here, and maybe
> some fill lights.

The water is just taken from what i had, I agree about your points on that. 
Radiosity is not my strong side :-) There is already one fill light in the
scene.

> 
> As for the ice...it would help if it were a bit translucent. Currently,
> it just doesn't have any depth...it looks like painted blocks of foam.
> The only way I can think of to help this would be to mess with partly
> transparent textures and media...translucency is not easy to do. 

Yeah, i already thought about media, thats probably the only way to get the
milky translucency of ice.  

> Also,
> you have some very narrow spikes of ice which would certainly tip over
> in real life, and you need more debris, small bits of ice and slush in
> the water.

That's the problem with the crackle-texture, I not yet have any idea how to
solve that (maybe I have to remove them by hand :-( )

> Still, it is a very good start...I like the shore. This certainly has
> some potential for an interesting scene.

thanks, in fact, it is done very quickly, i was surprised that it looked quite
well.  

> 
> Maybe a viewpoint closer to one of the ice floes, with footprints across
> the top of the floe, or a hat and glove sitting on top. :-)
> 

Right now, i use a heightfield, so that would be a problem, maybe i should
change it to an isosurface, but that would no more allow manual changes.

Christoph

--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

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Ken Matassa wrote:
> 
> OK, admit it, you just got back from a trip to Alaska and want to show
> off your photos. Actualy, the hills in the background are fantastic. The
> water color is way off from what I've seen from photos of the Artic.
> Probubly should be grey in color. Other than that, great work!
> 
> Ken Matassa

Thanks, in fact i have never been in arctic regions, only have seen the lakes
here frozen and sometimes the baltic sea.  I agree about the water color, I will
change that for the next try.  

Christoph

--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

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Yann Ramin wrote:
> 
> Ok, that just looks good (the mountains).  How did you do those?  I love
> how the snow sort matches the hillside and has texture.
> 
> Yann

The mountains are ridged multifractal as a heightfield with megapov's slope
pattern for the texture.  There were some similar mountains here in the past,
you could also do that with isosurfaces, but then you have difficulties with
manual modifications of the shape.  

Christoph

--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

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"Christoph Hormann" <Chr### [at] schunteretctu-bsde> wrote in
message news:397BF321.359C11A8@schunter.etc.tu-> > > A polar bear... =)
(said Rune)
> > > > A penguin or another animal could be the final touch (said Moon47)

Thanks to both Rune And Moon47, i will think about an animal, even though i
> never modelled something like that and i hate using other peoples' models
:-)
>
> Christoph
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
> Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

Just 'bear' in mind -- polar bears live at the north pole and penguins at
the south pole and would never meet in the wild.

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On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:20:26 +0200, Christoph Hormann
<Chr### [at] schunteretctu-bsde> wrote:

>Comments welcome, I am not content with the textures, anyone who has experience
>with icy materials ? 

It needs a gust of wind to blow the snow around. It also needs Tux :)


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

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In article <397BF542.F09F93D3@schunter.etc.tu-bs.de>, 
chr### [at] gmxde wrote:

> The water is just taken from what i had, I agree about your points on 
> that. 

And one more thing: variable reflection.


> Radiosity is not my strong side :-) There is already one fill light 
> in the scene.

The radiosity in MegaPOV doesn't need much tweaking for most 
scenes...just copy-pasting the values from one of the sample scenes 
often works.


> Yeah, i already thought about media, thats probably the only way to 
> get the milky translucency of ice. 

Maybe just adding greenish-blueish areas on the sides would work...or 
make the sides partly transparent and fill it with a blue-green emitting 
media.


> That's the problem with the crackle-texture, I not yet have any idea 
> how to solve that (maybe I have to remove them by hand :-( )

Hmm, they wouldn't look so out of place if there was a bunch of small 
ice chunks and slush around them...and don't forget that you could just 
use CSG to remove them. Or you could output an image for the height 
field and edit that.


> Right now, i use a heightfield, so that would be a problem, maybe i 
> should change it to an isosurface, but that would no more allow 
> manual changes.

Well, first, what do you mean by "manual changes"? I don't think there 
is anything you can do with height fields that can't be done with 
isosurfaces...
Anyway, it shouldn't be too hard to add your own ice floe. Just leave 
the current ones where they are, and put one as a separate object in 
front of the camera.

-- 
Christopher James Huff - Personal e-mail: chr### [at] maccom
TAG(Technical Assistance Group) e-mail: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
Personal Web page: http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG Web page: http://tag.povray.org/

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Chris Huff wrote:
> 
[...] 
> And one more thing: variable reflection.

Already there, but you do not see much of it.

> 
> The radiosity in MegaPOV doesn't need much tweaking for most
> scenes...just copy-pasting the values from one of the sample scenes
> often works.
> 

I tried that and it did not change anything...

> 
> Maybe just adding greenish-blueish areas on the sides would work...or
> make the sides partly transparent and fill it with a blue-green emitting
> media.

See my second version, I did not yet try media, but even without, it works quite
well.  

> 
> > That's the problem with the crackle-texture, I not yet have any idea
> > how to solve that (maybe I have to remove them by hand :-( )
> 
> Hmm, they wouldn't look so out of place if there was a bunch of small
> ice chunks and slush around them...and don't forget that you could just
> use CSG to remove them. Or you could output an image for the height
> field and edit that.

That's exactly what i'm doing all the time :-) I also thought about smaller ice
pieces, would be not that difficult to add them, but I'm not sure whether they
would look good.  

> 
> > Right now, i use a heightfield, so that would be a problem, maybe i
> > should change it to an isosurface, but that would no more allow
> > manual changes.
> 
> Well, first, what do you mean by "manual changes"? I don't think there
> is anything you can do with height fields that can't be done with
> isosurfaces...

I meant removing some parts/selective changes.  For example i removed some part
of the mountain HF behind the camera casting shadows on the foreground.  Of
course you could have removed them from isosurface with CSG operations, but that
would be much more difficult.  

> Anyway, it shouldn't be too hard to add your own ice floe. Just leave
> the current ones where they are, and put one as a separate object in
> front of the camera.
> 

I already considered that, it would need a different viewpoint/view direction
but I will give it a try...

Thanks for your suggestions, even though I'm not sure whether i will have time
to try everything in the next days ...

Christoph

--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

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In article <397CA4E9.60BAF6F5@schunter.etc.tu-bs.de>, 
chr### [at] gmxde wrote:

> That's exactly what i'm doing all the time :-) I also thought about 
> smaller ice pieces, would be not that difficult to add them, but I'm 
> not sure whether they would look good.  

Basically what I am talking about is floating lumps of snow and 
slush...bits of stuff which sheared off when the floes separated and 
bumped into each other. Right now it seems strange that the floes 
separated cleanly, without smaller pieces breaking off.


> I meant removing some parts/selective changes.  For example i removed 
> some part of the mountain HF behind the camera casting shadows on the 
> foreground.  Of course you could have removed them from isosurface 
> with CSG operations, but that would be much more difficult.  

But that doesn't answer my real question...what "manual changes" 
wouldn't be possible with isosurfaces? Why would CSG be needed with 
isosurfaces, but not with height fields?

-- 
Christopher James Huff - Personal e-mail: chr### [at] maccom
TAG(Technical Assistance Group) e-mail: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
Personal Web page: http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG Web page: http://tag.povray.org/

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Chris Huff wrote:
> 
> 
> Basically what I am talking about is floating lumps of snow and
> slush...bits of stuff which sheared off when the floes separated and
> bumped into each other. Right now it seems strange that the floes
> separated cleanly, without smaller pieces breaking off.
> 

I already understood that :-) just did not yet have time to work it out.

[...]
> 
> But that doesn't answer my real question...what "manual changes"
> wouldn't be possible with isosurfaces? Why would CSG be needed with
> isosurfaces, but not with height fields?
>

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, I meant painting away certain structures in the
heightfield file, that i do not like.  Of course you do not neccessarily need
CSG to do that with isosurfaces, you could change the isosurface function, but
it would never be that simple IMO.

Christoph

--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

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On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:41:21 +0200, Christoph Hormann wrote...
> > > > A penguin or another animal could be the final touch.
> > > >
> > > > Greetings,
> > > >
> > > > Rune
> 
> Thanks to both Rune And Moon47, i will think about an animal, even though i
> never modelled something like that and i hate using other peoples' models :-)

Well, I have a copy of the sPatch model of Tux (the Linux penguin) that 
was posted on one of these NG's a while back if you want it <grin>

I've also got it as a textured Moray file if that's of any use.

(BTW, this is not an overly serious suggestion :)

Bye for now,
     Jamie.

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In article <397CB7A2.9E5A045C@schunter.etc.tu-bs.de>, 
chr### [at] gmxde wrote:

> Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, I meant painting away certain 
> structures in the heightfield file, that i do not like.  Of course 
> you do not neccessarily need CSG to do that with isosurfaces, you 
> could change the isosurface function, but it would never be that 
> simple IMO.

I still don't understand...what is stopping you from painting away those 
structures and using the image in an isosurface? There are a couple ways 
you could do it...image_pattern, image_map. Just use a pigment function.

-- 
Christopher James Huff - Personal e-mail: chr### [at] maccom
TAG(Technical Assistance Group) e-mail: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
Personal Web page: http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG Web page: http://tag.povray.org/

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Chris Huff wrote:
> 
[...]
> 
> I still don't understand...what is stopping you from painting away those
> structures and using the image in an isosurface? There are a couple ways
> you could do it...image_pattern, image_map. Just use a pigment function.
> 

<light going on> Aha! Now i got it :-) But what would be the difference except
it would be slower, wouldn't it ? Of course you could apply additional functions
to the iso like nonlinear scaling, cylindrical mapping, ...  

Christoph

--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

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