The following are snapshots from the movie Gladiator, Mission Impossible II
and Dinosaur.  The idea is to generate similar images using POV that will at
least make an attempt at mimicking the big-budget software used for these
films.  If the movie producers and their SFX people look to reality for
inspiration then why not have POV-Ray people look to the movies for
inspiration .... ?


Difficult Images:  Mission Impossible II

  The first frame is from Mission Impossible II and is a nice shot of an area
in the badlands ( I guess ) although it may be Australia where most of the
film is shot.  TerraGen could be used for a background anf then POV for the
foreground rockface.  The lighting looks like a single point source ( makes
sense for the shadows ) but the rock texture may be more complex as there is
visible strata of different colors.  Whatever the case, comments on an
approach would be good instead of just throwing myself at it.  I added another
frame that shows Tom Cruise ( or stunt double or image thereof ) against the
rock face.  This image may be used as an image map ... maybe not.



Really Difficult Images :  Gladiator

I think that the images in Gladiator of Rome are definately difficult, but not
impossible.  Primarily because the construction of the buildings is geometric
in shape and once a sub-section of a building or window is modeled, it would
be a tiresome but possible job of duplication and translation.  The roman
coliseum [Flavian Amphitheater] should be modeled as one slice of a circle and
then duplicated around its center.  Problem is, its an elipse, a simple skew
would ruin the long sides.  What-ever the case, it would be nice ( fun ) to
model the coliseum.

Virtually Impossible Images : Dinosaur

The images say it all.  This would be a project with a budget and many
deliverables.  It would take a team of ten people to build these sort of
images.

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'mission_possible_frame.jpg' (59 KB) Download 'mission_possible_frame_102.jpg' (32 KB) Download 'colosseo3.jpg' (23 KB) Download 'gladiator_coliseum_frame3.jpg' (46 KB) Download 'dinosaur-c-480_explosion_frame.jpg' (59 KB) Download 'dinosaur-c-480_run_frame.jpg' (52 KB)

Preview of image 'mission_possible_frame.jpg'

Preview of image 'mission_possible_frame_102.jpg'

Preview of image 'colosseo3.jpg'

Preview of image 'gladiator_coliseum_frame3.jpg'

Preview of image 'dinosaur-c-480_explosion_frame.jpg'

Preview of image 'dinosaur-c-480_run_frame.jpg'

You want Reality ???
Haven't you seen the Pic of the latest IRTC-Winner ???
I'd say Reaylity isn't impossible in POV ... (maybe often harder to setup
then in the high-budget software)

--

 ,',    Jan Walzer      \V/  http://wa.lzer.net     ,',
',','   student of      >|<  mailto:jan### [at] lzernet ',','
  '   ComputerScience   /A\  +49-177-7403863         '

Post a reply to this message

"Dennis Clarke" <dcl### [at] interlogcom> wrote in message
news:39368D91.CEFBFA0A@interlog.com...
>
> It would take a team of ten people to build these
> sort of images.

Nah... Giles and H.E. could get together and whip these up in an afternoon.

Eric
--------------------
http://www.datasync.com/~ericfree
--------------------
"I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it."
- Erwin Schrodinger talking about Quantum Mechanics.

Post a reply to this message

Eric Freeman wrote:

> "Dennis Clarke" <dcl### [at] interlogcom> wrote in message
> news:39368D91.CEFBFA0A@interlog.com...
> >
> > It would take a team of ten people to build these
> > sort of images.
>
> Nah... Giles and H.E. could get together and whip these up in an afternoon.

Not all 4 in an afternoon probably, but yes, it's no mission impossible, at
least in small resolutions. For instance, the trees in the last picture looks
like then could be done by TomTree. We could have a Blobman Tom Cruise, a Poser
dino, Leveller height fields, a Jaime cloudscape etc. The Coliseum would take
some time to model, but there are so many pictures of it that we could rely on
image maps for the texturing, and some already made architecture could be found
in Nathan O'Brien "Piranese" IRTC picture. The main problem would come from the
natural lighting and some of the media stuff (explosions).
The real feat, though, would be to animate the pictures because some of the
"cheating" used for stills would be apparent, and this is where commercial
software is really efficient. Animating the running dino could be done in
Poser, though (there's a running dino motion file available). And for Cruise
hanging by his pinky, there may be some chimp motion files too...

G.

Post a reply to this message

> Nah... Giles and H.E. could get together and whip these up in an
afternoon.
>
> Eric

well, and they would need me of course too...




to make the coffee!

Post a reply to this message

The thing to remember is that they are probably mixing actual footage(w/ 
pyrotechnics and whatnot) with CG.  An example would be in Dinosaurs 
with the background bieng actual and the dinosaur and other objects 
being digital.

If you were to recreate the world(with tree include files that have many 
branches, radiosity, media, plus any isosurface) it would take a 
tremendous amount of time to parse and render.  I'm talking about scenes 
that would probably require a better computer (at least better that my 
worthless Compaq).  Such computers as those nice $20,000 SGI's (a little 
out of my price range)





            Brendan Orr

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'iso-8859-1' (2 KB)

> [SGI 550 Workstation]
> 
> 
> 
>             Brendan Orr

and for a moment today i was happy because I had $500 saved up so far
which is going towards a laptop in the once hopefull future. that laptop
doesn't look so glorious anymore.

Post a reply to this message

To recreate all the complexity of even a simple scene would require IBM's
latest and greatest ice computer capable of trillions of instructions pers
econd and about as much memory as all the atoms in the known universe!!!!
 allright I'm exagerating...slightly}

I know I've tried it...

Mick


>If you were to recreate the world(with tree include files that have many
branches, radiosity, media, plus >any isosurface) it would take a tremendous
amount of time to parse and render.  I'm talking about >scenes that would
probably require a better computer (at least better that my worthless
Compaq).  Such >computers as those nice $20,000 SGI's (a little out of my
price range

Post a reply to this message

> Brendan Orr wrote:
> 
> The thing to remember is that they are probably mixing actual footage(w/
> pyrotechnics and whatnot) with CG.  An example would be in Dinosaurs with
> the background bieng actual and the dinosaur and other objects being
> digital.
> 
> If you were to recreate the world(with tree include files that have many
> branches, radiosity, media, plus any isosurface) it would take a tremendous
> amount of time to parse and render.  I'm talking about scenes that would
> probably require a better computer (at least better that my worthless
> Compaq).  Such computers as those nice $20,000 SGI's (a little out of my
> price range)
> 
> [SGI 550 Workstation]
> 
> 
> 
>             Brendan Orr

The problem on my end is not the horsepower ( see image of my lab below ) but
the talent.  I have made a model of a roman column, or at least what I think
is a roman column.  I think that I rather start with the rock formation and
use terragen for the background.  What bothers me about terragen is that
animation is a real problem.  The opening sequence for MI2 uses a low level
fly-by of these rock walls.  I keep thinking that it would be fun to render an
animation that looks like the GENESIS sequence from STAR TREK II The Wrath of
Khan.

In any case I have been playing with blob animations but seem to have grown
tired of them ...

see http://www.interlog.com/~dclarke/povray/animate/fluid.mov
    http://www.interlog.com/~dclarke/povray/animate/glob.mov
    http://www.interlog.com/~dclarke/povray/povray.html  <-- old and crusty
...

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'roman.jpg' (48 KB) Download 'lab_101.gif' (364 KB)

Preview of image 'roman.jpg'

Preview of image 'lab_101.gif'

On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 10:33:41 -0400, Dennis Clarke
<dcl### [at] interlogcom> wrote:

>The problem on my end is not the horsepower ( see image of my lab below )

It doesn't seem like bandwidth is a problem for you either... <hint
hint>


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

Post a reply to this message

Peter Popov wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 10:33:41 -0400, Dennis Clarke
> <dcl### [at] interlogcom> wrote:
> 
> >The problem on my end is not the horsepower ( see image of my lab below )
> 
> It doesn't seem like bandwidth is a problem for you either... <hint
> hint>
> 
> Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
> Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
> TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

oops ... yeah ... I'll refrain from posting anymore junk until I have
something reasonable.  

I guess the next thing on my mind is that the quality of renders here is very
high.  I'm at a loss where to start but I think that I'll post intermediate
images regardless of the quality and simply hope for constructive feedback ...

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 16:05:22 -0400, Dennis Clarke
<dcl### [at] interlogcom> wrote:

>oops ... yeah ... I'll refrain from posting anymore junk until I have
>something reasonable.  

Please forgive me if I sounded like disregarding your work. I only
wanted to point out that you could have jpeged that lab photo (or not
post it at all, now I am sooooo jealous!!! :)) ).

>I guess the next thing on my mind is that the quality of renders here is very
>high.  

It has to do with me not posting in a long time. I'll take care to
bring the average level down to where it once was :)

>I'm at a loss where to start but I think that I'll post intermediate
>images regardless of the quality and simply hope for constructive feedback ...

Constructive feedback... not having seen any of the movies you
mention, I don't think I will make a good advisor.


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

Post a reply to this message

Dennis Clarke wrote:
> 
> oops ... yeah ... I'll refrain from posting anymore junk until I have
> something reasonable.
> 

I'd say the best course of action in this case would be to put these images on a
webpage somewhere and provide a link to them here. This group is, after all, for
POV-Ray images. While small example photos might be fine, your examples are by
definition large and detailed.

On another note, it is really not fair to say that these images are difficult to
do in POV. I've said it before and I'll say it again: POV is, first and
foremost, a renderer not a modeller. So, while it might be difficult to
hand-code, let's say, the dino scene, you could quite easily achieve a quality
render provided you have used a more suitable tool to create the models.
Hand-coding can be very powerful - even the Big Boys use it in their tools - but
it is not suited for every job.

-- 
Margus Ramst

Personal e-mail: mar### [at] peakeduee
TAG (Team Assistance Group) e-mail: mar### [at] tagpovrayorg

Post a reply to this message

Peter Popov wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 16:05:22 -0400, Dennis Clarke
> <dcl### [at] interlogcom> wrote:
> 
> >oops ... yeah ... I'll refrain from posting anymore junk until I have
> >something reasonable.
> 
> Please forgive me if I sounded like disregarding your work. I only
> wanted to point out that you could have jpeged that lab photo (or not
> post it at all, now I am sooooo jealous!!! :)) ).
> 
> >I guess the next thing on my mind is that the quality of renders here is very
> >high.
> 
> It has to do with me not posting in a long time. I'll take care to
> bring the average level down to where it once was :)
> 

No problem ... I should really stick to where my talent lies and simply get a
version of POV-Ray tweaked to within a hair of self-destruction and get it
scripted to run across multiple systems with some degree of ease.  I find that
PVM is a pain and I just downloaded the source to Mark Gordons MegaPov
project.  I will probable get my site www.blastwave.com up and running later
today and then begin moving my POV-Ray stuff over there.  I just need to
figure out what machine I will use for the next little while.  I have a small
Sun Ultra 1 here that fits the bill nicely and maybe I can build MegaPov on
that.  What ever the case, I'll go back to getting POV to operate across
multiple CPUs and maybe multiple systems. 

What are your thoughts on TerraGen and do you know any way to get it
registered these days?

Dennis

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:03:57 -0400, Dennis Clarke
<dcl### [at] interlogcom> wrote:

-- 8< ----

>What are your thoughts on TerraGen and do you know any way to get it
>registered these days?

I've only seen a few landscapes made with it. Impressive but still CG
looking. I don't think it has a very realistic lighting system but
rather it's been hacked and tweaked to produce stunning landscapes in
reasonable time. As of registering it, I can't help any, sorry. Maybe
someone else knows.


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

Post a reply to this message

Peter Popov wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:03:57 -0400, Dennis Clarke
> <dcl### [at] interlogcom> wrote:
> 
> -- 8< ----
> 
> >What are your thoughts on TerraGen and do you know any way to get it
> >registered these days?
> 
> I've only seen a few landscapes made with it. Impressive but still CG
> looking. I don't think it has a very realistic lighting system but
> rather it's been hacked and tweaked to produce stunning landscapes in
> reasonable time. As of registering it, I can't help any, sorry. Maybe
> someone else knows.
> 
> Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
> Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
> TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

This is a terrain that I just made ...  not too bad looking and lots of dark
area in the foreground for some POV stuff to be overlaid ontop...

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'water_world.jpg' (177 KB)

Preview of image 'water_world.jpg'