Since some people said that they wanted to quit povving because of some
pics of mine, I take the liberty to post here the 3rd povray picture I
ever done (lost the first 2 ones, fortunately). It's dated March 21,
1993. It's absolutely dull, as uninteresting as possible, and shows no
promise whatsoever. One whole day was wasted on it, because I couldn't
figure out why some of the elements kept disappearing from the screen
(the now famous "rotate after translate" thing), something that puzzled
me for a year actually. And it took one hour to render on my 386. [Note
that 6 years after, I can still render it, due to backward compatibility
(praise to the pov-team)]. I remember how proud I was of this...er...
thing and showed it to lots of people who weren't a little bit
interested, for some reason I couldn't fathom at the time.
I think I won the "ugliest picture contest" in this ng and proved that
no matter how long the walk is, just go on walking.

Gilles Tran

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Gilles Tran wrote in message <371CC1C7.16E8B78A@inapg.inra.fr>...
[snip]
>I think I won the "ugliest picture contest" in this ng
[snip]

Close, anyway... ;-)

Johannes.

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Gilles Tran wrote:
> 
> Since some people said that they wanted to quit povving because of some
> pics of mine, I take the liberty to post here the 3rd povray picture I
> ever done (lost the first 2 ones, fortunately). It's dated March 21,
> 1993. It's absolutely dull, as uninteresting as possible, and shows no
> promise whatsoever. One whole day was wasted on it, because I couldn't
> figure out why some of the elements kept disappearing from the screen
> (the now famous "rotate after translate" thing), something that puzzled
> me for a year actually. And it took one hour to render on my 386. [Note
> that 6 years after, I can still render it, due to backward compatibility
> (praise to the pov-team)]. I remember how proud I was of this...er...
> thing and showed it to lots of people who weren't a little bit
> interested, for some reason I couldn't fathom at the time.
> I think I won the "ugliest picture contest" in this ng and proved that
> no matter how long the walk is, just go on walking.
> 
> Gilles Tran


  Excerpt taken from the "Electronic Artists of the Late 20th Century"
a biographical account of some of the early pioneers in the computer
graphics in art field of that time period.

  The author of the book had this to say about Gilles early works...

  While I like to be contrary for contrary's sake at times, I believe
this time, if I were judging this as the work of someone just starting
out in this medium, that it shows good beginning promise. There is an
obvious use of a non orthogonal viewpoint, something even advanced
artists seldom use to their advantage, a good sense of perspective,
use of textures rather than solid pigments, and there is a legitimate
attempt made in scaling, to frame the object, for the visibility the
artist wanted to convey in his work.
  It is evident that the artist did not have much experience with the
software that he was using but it wasn't for lack of trying that this
is somewhat less than his later work would become famous for. In fact
this might actually be the missing cover page of the first book of
beginnings though we will never know for sure. Additionally I would like
to add that despite his own self described abilities as less than what
his peers in the field credit him with, he was, none the less unique
in that he ...


  Really Gilles your work is good but I don't think I have to make an
idol out of you to enjoy it. If people around here keep this up your
head is going to swell up so big you won't be able to fit it into
the door here at the newsgroups anymore. Just suffice it to say I like
most of your work and we can leave this cannonizing sentimentality
unspoken between us. : )

  Common people he used a bloody image map for the town in that last
image he posted. Thats a month number three newbie technique to fill
an image's background with something besides blue sky. Would a "real"
artist stoop so low as to resort to this type of elementary work ?
I mean really ! There are limits to acceptable artistry despite ones
stature in the field.


Signed,

Mr. Ken "the Rebel Jester" Tyler

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> Mr. Ken "the Rebel Jester" Tyler

I think that should be:

Kenneth Tyler
 AKA Uncle Ken
 AKA Da Linkmasta
 AKA The Rebel Jester
 AKA El Bestia

PS: That last one is only applicable in the country of Panama. It is a slang
term which means you are 'monstrously' good at what you do (monstrously =
really, really).

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Gilles Tran wrote:
> 
> Since some people said that they wanted to quit povving because of some
> pics of mine,
Hey, I'm innocent(admittedly, Im not good at art, but I can push the limits of
pov making macros that hopefully someone will at least find interesting.)

>> I take the liberty to post here the 3rd povray picture I
> ever done (lost the first 2 ones, fortunately). It's dated March 21,
> 1993. It's absolutely dull, as uninteresting as possible, and shows no
> promise whatsoever. 
Now that's what I can relate to :-)

>>One whole day was wasted on it, because I couldn't
> figure out why some of the elements kept disappearing from the screen
> (the now famous "rotate after translate" thing), something that puzzled
> me for a year actually. 
Wasting only one day? *mumbles forhimself*

>>And it took one hour to render on my 386. [Note
> that 6 years after, I can still render it, due to backward compatibility
> (praise to the pov-team)]. 
Praise are they worth, indeed.

>>I remember how proud I was of this...er...
> thing and showed it to lots of people who weren't a little bit
> interested, for some reason I couldn't fathom at the time.
*hehe*

>> I think I won the "ugliest picture contest" in this ng and proved that
> no matter how long the walk is, just go on walking.
*smile*
ok, you win :-)

-- 
//Spider
        [ spi### [at] bahnhofse ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
                "Marian"
        By: "Sisters Of Mercy"

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Gilles Tran wrote:
[ ... ]
>				I remember how proud I was of this...er...
> thing and showed it to lots of people who weren't a little bit
> interested, for some reason I couldn't fathom at the time.

After about a year of experience, it is still better than 99% 
of the things I manage to make with POV

> I think I won the "ugliest picture contest" in this ng
[ ... ]

Now this sounds like something I could work up some enthusiasm for. 
Or maybe a 'worst picture' contest.

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I know it wouldn't take long before this, and I knew it would be Ken ;)

Well, all I have to say is...to heck with the philosophy! Gilles is a
great artist, but so are most of the other people posting in these
newsgroups. I'm not saying he should be made an Idol, I'm just trying to
show that if you try, like Gilles, you can accomplish (and I mean
ACCOMPLISH). Besides, I'm only want the rest of us (that can't render)
to improve ourselves by having someone to look up to.

As for you, ken, I think you're a great artist as well. I'm just not
ready to worship you quite yet - you have a quite different personallity
(that's one way to put it). In fact, I could start listing all the
"accomplishing POv artists" I know of (one that goes rather unnoticed is
H. E. Day) but that would be unfair. Many people contribute to this area
(rendering in pov) and everyone is just as important. I think that
having a figure to look up to is good and constructive. This is not to
say the Gilles is a BETTER person in some way than any of us (sorry
gilles) it's just to say he's a more skillful artist. If there is anyone
out there who gets offended by any of this, just say so! There's no need
to get angry over futile things.

as for the Gilles Tran contest I started, I think just for peace sake to
change it to "Artistic Writing and Rendering Challenge". Now, if it's
good enough for you, Ken, let's see what you can do.

BTW: I'm just over enthusiastic as usual. Besides, today is Independance
Day and I'm in a good mood so don't ruin it for me.

That's All.

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Oh, and one more thing: the people who really deserve to be mentioned
are the POV-Ray team. They made it all possible, and I hope they will
never quit.

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I have to join in with my praise here, theese guys do a great job and are worth
every praise we can give.


Lewis wrote:
> 
> Oh, and one more thing: the people who really deserve to be mentioned
> are the POV-Ray team. They made it all possible, and I hope they will
> never quit.

-- 
//Spider
        [ spi### [at] bahnhofse ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
                "Marian"
        By: "Sisters Of Mercy"

Post a reply to this message

Spider wrote:
> 
> I have to join in with my praise here, theese guys do a great job and are worth
> every praise we can give.

Yes agreed but I've heard rumbelings (over in general), something
about some "Moddeler" type functions being added to future
versions, such as a scaling tool.  

I don't know about you but it looks asthough some of us old guys
are getting a bit pushed out, it's the thin end of the wedge,
tomorrow a scaling tool GUI, a few months down the road you might
not even be able to edit the code manually.

Just a few thoughts to keep in mind.

Cheers
Steve
 




> 
> Lewis wrote:
> >
> > Oh, and one more thing: the people who really deserve to be mentioned
> > are the POV-Ray team. They made it all possible, and I hope they will
> > never quit.
> 
> --
> //Spider
>         [ spi### [at] bahnhofse ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
> What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
>                 "Marian"
>         By: "Sisters Of Mercy"

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I tried to stay out of that flame, but I really don't think there's any
reason to add GUI to the official POV distribution. There SHOULD be some
free, fully compatible GUI for pov, but I don't think that we have to
make such a thing a part of the official pov especially since it's so
incompatible over different platforms.

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Humm, I still edit some of my Code in textpad...
So for me, a modeller is one thing, and POV is another..

but a thing that would be nice is to differ the parser from the renderer, but..
we are getting OT here, don't reply to this.



Steve wrote:
> 
> Spider wrote:
> >
> > I have to join in with my praise here, theese guys do a great job and are worth
> > every praise we can give.
> 
> Yes agreed but I've heard rumbelings (over in general), something
> about some "Moddeler" type functions being added to future
> versions, such as a scaling tool.
> 
> I don't know about you but it looks asthough some of us old guys
> are getting a bit pushed out, it's the thin end of the wedge,
> tomorrow a scaling tool GUI, a few months down the road you might
> not even be able to edit the code manually.
> 
> Just a few thoughts to keep in mind.
> 
> Cheers
> Steve
> 
> 
> >
> > Lewis wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh, and one more thing: the people who really deserve to be mentioned
> > > are the POV-Ray team. They made it all possible, and I hope they will
> > > never quit.
> >
> > --
> > //Spider
> >         [ spi### [at] bahnhofse ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
> > What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
> >                 "Marian"
> >         By: "Sisters Of Mercy"

-- 
//Spider
        [ spi### [at] bahnhofse ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
                "Marian"
        By: "Sisters Of Mercy"

Post a reply to this message

Steve wrote:
> 
> Spider wrote:

> I don't know about you but it looks asthough some of us old guys
> are getting a bit pushed out, it's the thin end of the wedge,
> tomorrow a scaling tool GUI, a few months down the road you might
> not even be able to edit the code manually.
> Cheers
> Steve

 ... and as the start beefing up the program the overhead for the
develoment tools increse, the program specific files increase in
number and size, and the program with these extra burdens need
more attention to keep them compatible with changing system
architectures. Enevitably this leads to a cash crunch for the
developers and registrations fees will soon follow.

 As long as my tired old fingers can punch some code into the
keyboard I will be happy with it's current format. I mean if
Chris Young can write the program without the use of his hands
I can use it even if mine are totatly cripple with arthritus
in my rapidly approaching old age.

-- 
Ken Tyler

mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

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<snip> 
>  ... and as the start beefing up the program the overhead for the
> develoment tools increse, the program specific files increase in
> number and size, and the program with these extra burdens need
> more attention to keep them compatible with changing system
> architectures. Enevitably this leads to a cash crunch for the
> developers and registrations fees will soon follow.
Agree.
keep it slimmed down, but flexible.
 
>  As long as my tired old fingers can punch some code into the
> keyboard I will be happy with it's current format. I mean if
> Chris Young can write the program without the use of his hands
---explain.. is this something I don't know of?

> I can use it even if mine are totatly cripple with arthritus
> in my rapidly approaching old age.
I can relate to that, although I'm relatively young, my limbs(in the fingers)
are already damaged and get me into trouble while typing...*sighs*

 
> --
> Ken Tyler
> 
> mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

-- 
//Spider
        [ spi### [at] bahnhofse ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
                "Marian"
        By: "Sisters Of Mercy"

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Chris Young has physical disabilities

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Lewis wrote:
> 
> Chris Young has physical disabilities
ok. how much I don't know.

-- 
//Spider
        [ spi### [at] bahnhofse ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
                "Marian"
        By: "Sisters Of Mercy"

Post a reply to this message

Spider wrote:

> >  As long as my tired old fingers can punch some code into the
> > keyboard I will be happy with it's current format. I mean if
> > Chris Young can write the program without the use of his hands
> ---explain.. is this something I don't know of?

   Chris Young is handicapped and suffers from Muscular Dystrophy.
 I believe it is progressive and he will slowly loose all of his
 ability to manipulate the outside world. He currently has a special
 set up where the keyboard is propped up at an angle and he stabs
 at it with a pencil to type in his code. Knowing the invaluable
 work he puts into the program I value it even more knowing what
 an effort it must be for him to make all of the contributions
 that he does. He truly is a one in a million person whom I hold
 in very high regard.

-- 
Ken Tyler

mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

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Ken wrote:
> 
>    Chris Young is handicapped and suffers from Muscular Dystrophy.
I know of this handicap. but I didn't know that Chris suffered from it.

>  I believe it is progressive and he will slowly loose all of his
>  ability to manipulate the outside world. He currently has a special
>  set up where the keyboard is propped up at an angle and he stabs
>  at it with a pencil to type in his code. Knowing the invaluable
>  work he puts into the program I value it even more knowing what
>  an effort it must be for him to make all of the contributions
>  that he does.
Now that I know about this, my high regard for him increases even more. It is
indeed a great achivement of him to do the work he does.

>  He truly is a one in a million person whom I hold
>  in very high regard.
*nods in agreement*


-- 
//Spider
        [ spi### [at] bahnhofse ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
                "Marian"
        By: "Sisters Of Mercy"

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:22:27 +0200, Spider <spi### [at] bahnhofse> wrote:

>
>
>Lewis wrote:
>> 
>> Chris Young has physical disabilities
>ok. how much I don't know.

Why not go to his webpage at http://www.iquest.net/~cyoung/ and get
the story from the source?

Jerry Anning
clem "at" dhol "dot" com

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Stooped even lower actually:
- used TWO image maps to simulate the sunflower's hearts and the village
- used an external utility (PlantStudio) to create the ground plants
- used an old sky sphere with bozo clouds made two years ago (media, what's
media ?)
- the general design nothing but a variation on the sphere-over-plane cliché

G.

Ken wrote:

>   Common people he used a bloody image map for the town in that last
> image he posted. Thats a month number three newbie technique to fill
> an image's background with something besides blue sky. Would a "real"
> artist stoop so low as to resort to this type of elementary work ?
> I mean really ! There are limits to acceptable artistry despite ones
> stature in the field.
>
> Signed,
>
> Mr. Ken "the Rebel Jester" Tyler

Post a reply to this message

Gilles Tran wrote:
> 
> Stooped even lower actually:
> - used TWO image maps to simulate the sunflower's hearts and the village
> - used an external utility (PlantStudio) to create the ground plants
> - used an old sky sphere with bozo clouds made two years ago (media, what's
> media ?)
> - the general design nothing but a variation on the sphere-over-plane cliché
> 
> G.


  Like I was telling you people. He really is human. I just wish that
I could get away with using the easy road and pull it off looking so
well. Making it look easy is actually the hardest part.

On a side note: 

  I visited your utilites page a couple of days ago and I am impressed
at the assymbled collection you have to offer there. The nicest part was
that it was open just in time for my birthday. I found lot's of nice,
new, pretty, shiny, glittering with gold, toys to play with and all in
one convieniant place too. I stayed there so long looking at them the guy
behind the counter asked me to leave. He said the look on my face was
scaring people away. I took one of everything and left quickly before
someone found out what I was up to. :^ }

Thank you for the birthday gifts you have given me. Getting ancient
doesn't seem so bad now.

-- 
Ken Tyler

mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

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Ken wrote:
> 

> The nicest part was
> that it was open just in time for my birthday.

Even if it's a couple of days too late:


Happy birthday Uncle Ken!!!!!

May you live long and may you stay healthy!
May your raytracing be the way you want them and may your CPU never
stop!

Somebody with a nice birthday pic?

All the best,

Marc
-- 
Marc Schimmler

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I seem to have missed this note-worthy day,please accept my apologies
and my congratulations.

//Spider

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david sharp wrote:

> Gilles Tran wrote:
> > I think I won the "ugliest picture contest" in this ng
> [ ... ]
>
> Now this sounds like something I could work up some enthusiasm for.
> Or maybe a 'worst picture' contest.

I'd go for ugliest...

Good images are hard to make. Mediocre images are easy. However, making the
truly painful images is as much an art form as the truly great.

Post a reply to this message

Spider wrote:
> 
> I seem to have missed this note-worthy day,please accept my apologies
> and my congratulations.
> 
> //Spider

  Thank you. It was last monday and I was intenionaly silent about it.
I don't celebrate my birthdays anymore. I stopped having bithdays
after my 30th. I am now 30 years old - plus a few months :)

-- 
Ken Tyler

mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

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Simon de Vet wrote:

> 
> I'd go for ugliest...
> 
> Good images are hard to make. Mediocre images are easy. However, making the
> truly painful images is as much an art form as the truly great.

   I must be a latent undiscovered artist then. Everything I start looks
 like it has been hit about the head and shoulders with an ugly stick.
 I made one really beautiful image once but my computer recognized that
 it did not match the rest my work and it ate it.


-- 
Ken Tyler

mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

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Do you mean "Fatal Beauty"?

It was cool and was going to be cooler.

Alas;  

Steve

Ken wrote:
> 
> Simon de Vet wrote:
> 
> >
> > I'd go for ugliest...
> >
> > Good images are hard to make. Mediocre images are easy. However, making the
> > truly painful images is as much an art form as the truly great.
> 
>    I must be a latent undiscovered artist then. Everything I start looks
>  like it has been hit about the head and shoulders with an ugly stick.
>  I made one really beautiful image once but my computer recognized that
>  it did not match the rest my work and it ate it.
> 
> --
> Ken Tyler
> 
> mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

Post a reply to this message

Steve wrote:
> 
> Do you mean "Fatal Beauty"?
> 
> It was cool and was going to be cooler.
> 
> Alas;
> 
> Steve

You didn't have to remind of that one again. I still miss mot having
had the oppertunity to finish that one. snif

-- 
Ken Tyler

mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

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