POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.binaries.animations : city buildings-- animation WIP 2 Server Time
6 Oct 2022 22:06:25 EDT (-0400)
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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: city buildings-- animation WIP 2
Date: 11 Aug 2017 14:50:01
Message: <web.598dfb9ac78f585a883fb31c0@news.povray.org>
Excellent work!

I still prefer the 1-bit monochrome version(s); just a personal preference ;-)
They look stark and other-worldly.

I actually still had my Commodore 64 until maybe five years ago (unused for
decades); but decided--in a zealous bit of house-cleaning-- to finally throw it
out. I didn't realize at the time that it would come to be considered a
collector's item! Congratulations for holding on to yours.


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From: Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann
Subject: Re: city buildings-- animation WIP 2
Date: 11 Aug 2017 17:07:12
Message: <598e1c80$1@news.povray.org>
On 11.08.2017 20:46, Kenneth wrote:
> Excellent work!
>
> I still prefer the 1-bit monochrome version(s); just a personal preference ;-)
> They look stark and other-worldly.

Do you mean the Floyd-Steinberg or the non-dithered versions?

And... otherworldly? So they best would be soundtracked with Larry 
"Synergy" Fast's or Walter/Wendy Carlos' music (if you're familiar with it)?

> I actually still had my Commodore 64 until maybe five years ago (unused for
> decades); but decided--in a zealous bit of house-cleaning-- to finally throw it
> out. I didn't realize at the time that it would come to be considered a
> collector's item! Congratulations for holding on to yours.

Yes, I (of course ;-)) had several C 64s (and a C 128!) back in the 
80s... but I bought my current one only in 2005! And last year also an 
Atari 1040 STFM, which was a real bargain - though I still have not 
managed to get the SF 314 external floppy drive working!

In the longer run, I plan to get these animations (and also longer 
videos - I recently converted the entire Back to the Future movie to 
Atari ST Floyd-Steinberg monochrome (640 by 345 pixels) and started 
adding subtitles using the remaining 55 pixel rows - of course doing 
this with POV-Ray!) running from harddisks plugged to the Atari ST...

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: city buildings-- animation WIP 2
Date: 12 Aug 2017 03:05:01
Message: <web.598ea799c78f585a883fb31c0@news.povray.org>
=?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=b6rg_=22Yadgar=22_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> On 11.08.2017 20:46, Kenneth wrote:

> > They look stark and other-worldly.
>
> Do you mean the Floyd-Steinberg or the non-dithered versions?

The non-dithered versions; sorry for the confusion.
>
> And... otherworldly? So they best would be soundtracked with Larry
> "Synergy" Fast's or Walter/Wendy Carlos' music (if you're familiar with it)?

Yes indeed! Those original vinyl LPs-- most of which I still have-- were
constant companions and inspirations for many years (along with those of Isao
Tomita, a true master.)


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: city buildings-- animation WIP 2
Date: 12 Aug 2017 03:51:49
Message: <598eb395$1@news.povray.org>
On 8/12/2017 8:00 AM, Kenneth wrote:
> (along with those of Isao
> Tomita, a true master.)

At last, someone I recognise. :)

As for Floyd-Steinberg dithering. Why, other than for artistic or 
historical nostalgia is it used? To me it looks like a poor halftone 
implementation. It hurts my eyes looking at them.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: city buildings-- animation WIP 2
Date: 12 Aug 2017 15:35:00
Message: <web.598f57f3c78f585a883fb31c0@news.povray.org>
Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 8/12/2017 8:00 AM, Kenneth wrote:
> > (along with those of Isao
> > Tomita, a true master.)
>
> At last, someone I recognise. :)
>
> As for Floyd-Steinberg dithering. Why, other than for artistic or
> historical nostalgia is it used?
>

I would say, 'Art for the sake of art', if for no other reasons. (Like the old
MGM movie logo says, 'Ars Gratia Artis.') And it also seems like an interesting
technical challenge on older hardware.

I would guess that 'ASCII art' still has its lively practitioners as well.


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From: Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann
Subject: Re: city buildings-- animation WIP 2
Date: 13 Aug 2017 11:08:00
Message: <59906b50$1@news.povray.org>
Hi(gh)!

On 12.08.2017 09:00, Kenneth wrote:
> =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=b6rg_=22Yadgar=22_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
>> On 11.08.2017 20:46, Kenneth wrote:
>
>>> They look stark and other-worldly.
>>
>> Do you mean the Floyd-Steinberg or the non-dithered versions?
>
> The non-dithered versions; sorry for the confusion.
>>
>> And... otherworldly? So they best would be soundtracked with Larry
>> "Synergy" Fast's or Walter/Wendy Carlos' music (if you're familiar with it)?
>
> Yes indeed! Those original vinyl LPs-- most of which I still have-- were
> constant companions and inspirations for many years (along with those of Isao
> Tomita, a true master.)

Larry Fast must have been massively influenced by Tomita, when it comes 
to sounds - I recently listened to some pieces from his adaption of "The 
Planets" by Gustav Holst, and instantly felt familiar with the 
"orchestral" colors he used... that sounded like Synergy, especially 
like the "Cords" album from 1977! "The Planets" dates from 1976, so 
there very well could have been such an influence... perhaps I should 
get in touch with him once more (in 2010 we swapped some e-mail and I 
showed him samples of my own synthesizer music) and ask him about it...

And Carlos' way of composing (not so much the choice of sounds) is very 
similar to that of Larry Fast, I noticed it when watching "Tron"...

It's truly exhilarating to find another Synergy fan among POVers!

Although Fast's experience with scoring films seems not have been that 
convincing to him (he did only one soundtrack, "The Jupiter Menace", 
which according to what I read about the album, was sort of a sci-fi 
B-movie), if Robert L. Forward's "Dragon's Egg" ever will be filmed, I 
really would like him to do the music!

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar


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From: Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann
Subject: Re: city buildings-- animation WIP 2
Date: 13 Aug 2017 11:14:16
Message: <59906cc8$1@news.povray.org>
Hi(gh)!

On 12.08.2017 09:51, Stephen wrote:

> As for Floyd-Steinberg dithering. Why, other than for artistic or
> historical nostalgia is it used? To me it looks like a poor halftone
> implementation. It hurts my eyes looking at them.

Yes, Floyd-Steinberg is not the best choice for animations, 1-bit 
monochrome videos look like being played on a badly tuned ancient CRT 
b/w TV set... with YIP, I'll implement ordered dither in the future!

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: city buildings-- animation WIP 2
Date: 13 Aug 2017 12:05:23
Message: <599078c3$1@news.povray.org>
On 8/13/2017 4:14 PM, Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann wrote:
> Hi(gh)!
>
> On 12.08.2017 09:51, Stephen wrote:
>
>> As for Floyd-Steinberg dithering. Why, other than for artistic or
>> historical nostalgia is it used? To me it looks like a poor halftone
>> implementation. It hurts my eyes looking at them.
>
> Yes, Floyd-Steinberg is not the best choice for animations, 1-bit
> monochrome videos look like being played on a badly tuned ancient CRT
> b/w TV set... with YIP, I'll implement ordered dither in the future!
>

I wasn't criticising just curious that Floyd-Steinberg is still enabled. 
Testing with Paintshop Pro I prefer stucki dithering or depending on the 
outcome, the nearest colour. Just a matter of personal taste, I suppose.



-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: city buildings-- animation WIP 2
Date: 13 Aug 2017 15:29:01
Message: <5990a87d$1@news.povray.org>
On 8/12/2017 8:33 PM, Kenneth wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>> On 8/12/2017 8:00 AM, Kenneth wrote:
>>> (along with those of Isao
>>> Tomita, a true master.)
>>
>> At last, someone I recognise. :)
>>
>> As for Floyd-Steinberg dithering. Why, other than for artistic or
>> historical nostalgia is it used?
>>
>
> I would say, 'Art for the sake of art', if for no other reasons. (Like the old
> MGM movie logo says, 'Ars Gratia Artis.') And it also seems like an interesting
> technical challenge on older hardware.
>
Well, you or at least I, cannot argue with that. To be kind it does 
remind me of some Op Art.

> I would guess that 'ASCII art' still has its lively practitioners as well.
>
>
There must be some recidivists around. :)

Also there is typewriter art

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-24760538/the-artist-who-makes-pictures-with-a-typewriter

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: city buildings-- animation WIP 2
Date: 13 Aug 2017 15:55:00
Message: <web.5990ac4ec78f585a883fb31c0@news.povray.org>
=?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=b6rg_=22Yadgar=22_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:

>
> Larry Fast must have been massively influenced by Tomita, when it comes
> to sounds ... "The Planets" dates from 1976, so
> there very well could have been such an influence... perhaps I should
> get in touch with him once more (in 2010 we swapped some e-mail and I
> showed him samples of my own synthesizer music) and ask him about it...
>

I've always been one of those DIY guys, so back in the mid-to-late 1970's, I
built a (large!) one-note-at-a-time music synthesizer from kits made by PAIA
(John Simonton.) Tomita was my major influence to do so. The only trouble with
PAIA kits (at the time) was that they didn't use the standard 1-volt-per-octave
paradigm, that almost every other synth did. And it was purely analog; the
circuits would 'drift' slightly, requiring recalibration every now and then. But
along with my trusty 4-track TEAC reel-to-reel tape deck, that synth was an
astounding creative tool.

Sad to say, I dismantled that old synth years ago.

Now, the old synths (MOOG, ARP, and probably others) are all available in
software emulation. (And they would certainly be *easier* to use than in the old
days!) I haven't purchased one yet, but I might get the urge to
dive back into synth music in the future.


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