I call it a "Particlesystem" ! :)

no, seriously.  I had to make my own particlesystem, because apparently 
there's no way to randomize Rune's particle-system (the variable 
particle_seed is never used, you might want to look into that, Rune :)) 
and I couldn't just change it in his code or I would have to release it 
under the GPL, which I don't like (GPL is like a virus: everything that 
uses something that has it, becomes a GPL'ed thing itself).

So, the basic principles are the same as in every particle-system: you 
have a particle-emitter which, you'll probably never guess, emits 
particles! :)  those particles have a starting speed and are affected by 
outside forces, like gravity.  There's also a possibility to add an 
environment, and as you can see in this animation, it's also possible to 
let the particles "flow" along the surface of the environment.  It has 
no particle-particle interaction, so it's impossible to accurately model 
fluids with it, but as you can see here, it can produce fluidlike 
animations :)

As with all my include files, it's not yet finished and maybe never will 
be :-/
it all depends on how much demand there is for yet another particle 
system.

cu!
-- 
#macro G(b,e)b+(e-b)*C/50#end#macro _(b,e,k,l)#local C=0;#while(C<50)
sphere{G(b,e)+3*z.1pigment{rgb G(k,l)}finish{ambient 1}}#local C=C+1;
#end#end _(y-x,y,x,x+y)_(y,-x-y,x+y,y)_(-x-y,-y,y,y+z)_(-y,y,y+z,x+y)
_(0x+y.5+y/2x)_(0x-y.5+y/2x)            // ZK http://www.povplace.com

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'particlesystem.m1v.mpg' (469 KB)

and another, hotter, demo-animation

cu!
-- 
#macro G(b,e)b+(e-b)*C/50#end#macro _(b,e,k,l)#local C=0;#while(C<50)
sphere{G(b,e)+3*z.1pigment{rgb G(k,l)}finish{ambient 1}}#local C=C+1;
#end#end _(y-x,y,x,x+y)_(y,-x-y,x+y,y)_(-x-y,-y,y,y+z)_(-y,y,y+z,x+y)
_(0x+y.5+y/2x)_(0x-y.5+y/2x)            // ZK http://www.povplace.com

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'circularfire.m1v.mpg' (469 KB)

Zeger Knaepen wrote:
> I call it a "Particlesystem" ! :)
> 
> no, seriously.  I had to make my own particlesystem, because apparently there's no
way to randomize Rune's particle-system (the variable particle_seed is never used, you
might want to look into that, Rune :)) and I couldn't just change it in his code or I
would have to release it under the GPL, which I don't like (GPL is like a virus:
everything that uses something that has it, becomes a GPL'ed thing itself).
> 
> So, the basic principles are the same as in every particle-system: you have a
particle-emitter which, you'll probably never guess, emits particles! :)  those
particles have a starting speed and are affected by outside forces, like gravity. 
There's also a possibility to add an environment, and as you can see in this
animation, it's also possible to let the particles "flow" along the surface of the
environment.  It has no particle-particle interaction, so it's impossible to
accurately model fluids with it, but as you can see here, it can produce fluidlike
animations :)
> 
> As with all my include files, it's not yet finished and maybe never will be :-/
> it all depends on how much demand there is for yet another particle system.

Looks nice, especially that fiery animation is great, care to share the 
particle's setup (I'm guessing discs with a neatly animated pigment)?

But, I also have to admit that I'm a little sad that you overlooked my 
particle-system. It's entirely flexible, you can add as many objects as 
you like for interaction, there's no particle-particle-interaction, but 
hey, you can call macros for when objects get hit, you can add your own 
variables to attach to the macros in case you want to animate them in 
some special way with your own macros...

I guess I have to be more offensive about my Include-Files. I need a 
better marketing concept...

Regards,
Tim

-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

Post a reply to this message

"Tim Nikias" <JUS### [at] gmxnetWARE> wrote in 
message news:452fe9da@news.povray.org...
> Looks nice, especially that fiery animation is great, care to share 
the 
> particle's setup (I'm guessing discs with a neatly animated pigment)?

tnx :)

yes, the fire and smoke are just discs using these macros as a pigment:

-- begin code --
//Slime's code :)
#macro Additive_Blend(Color)
 #local Additiveness=1.00001;
 #local Color = <1,1,1> * Color / (1 - Additiveness);
 rgbt <Color.x, Color.y, Color.z, Additiveness> //Transparency + (1 - 
Transparency) * Additiveness>
#end

//smoke
#macro RookPigment(T,TR)
  pigment_pattern {
   function {max(min(x,1),0)}
   translate -x*.5 
   scale sqrt(2)
   rotate y*45
  }
  color_map {
   [0 rgb .0125 transmit T]
   [1 rgb .5 transmit T]
  }  
  translate -TR
  warp {turbulence .25 lambda 3}
  translate TR
#end

//fire
#macro VuurPigment(T,TR)
 pigment_pattern {
  granite
  scale 16
  color_map {[0 rgb 0][1 rgb 1-T]}
  warp {turbulence 1.5}
  translate y*clock*2
 }
 color_map {
  [0 Additive_Blend(0)]
  [.5 Additive_Blend(<1,.45,.2>*.5)]
  [1 Additive_Blend(<1,.65,.4>*2)]
 }
 translate -TR
 warp {turbulence 1.5}
 translate TR
#end

//a macro for animating 'flashes'
#macro flash(T,P,Grens)
  #if (T<Grens)
    #local T=1-(T*(1/Grens));
  #else
    #local T=(T-Grens)/(1-Grens);
  #end
  #local R=pow(T,P);
  R
#end


  #declare Seed2=seed(pID+10);

//a firey disc, 
// pStatus is the status of the particle, where pStatus=0 at it's 
birth and 1 when it dies
// pLocation is the location of the particle
  disc {
   0,y,1
    #local Translate=rand(Seed2)*500;
   pigment {
    pigment_pattern {spherical poly_wave 2}
    pigment_map {
     [0 VuurPigment(1,Translate+z*clock*.5)]
     [1 VuurPigment(flash(pStatus,2,.0625),Translate+z*clock*.5)]
    }
   }
   finish {ambient 1}
    Point_At_Trans(Camera_Lookat-Camera_Location) 
    scale (3-2*pStatus)/15
    translate pLocation
    no_shadow
  }

//and a smokey disc
// pStatus is the status of the particle, where pStatus=0 at it's 
birth and 1 when it dies
// pLocation is the location of the particle
  disc {
   0,y,1.5
    #local Translate=rand(Seed2)*500;
   pigment {
    pigment_pattern {spherical poly_wave 1}
    pigment_map {
     [0 RookPigment(1,Translate+z*clock*.5)]// scale .5]
     [1 RookPigment(flash(pStatus,1,.3),Translate+z*clock*.5)]// scale 
.5]
    }
    translate Translate
    warp {turbulence .5 lambda 3}
    translate -Translate
   }
   finish {ambient 1}
    Point_At_Trans(Camera_Lookat-Camera_Location) 
    scale (3+4*pStatus)/20
    translate pLocation
    no_shadow
  }

-- end code --

(something like that :))

> But, I also have to admit that I'm a little sad that you overlooked my 

> particle-system. It's entirely flexible, you can add as many objects 
as 
> you like for interaction, there's no particle-particle-interaction, 
but 
> hey, you can call macros for when objects get hit, you can add your 
own 
> variables to attach to the macros in case you want to animate them in 
> some special way with your own macros...

hmm, sounds interesting and worth checking out !
let's see :p

hmm, looks good! I like the particle-splitting-on-collision-feature :) 
I'm thinking about how to add that to my system :p

> I guess I have to be more offensive about my Include-Files. I need a 
> better marketing concept...

hmm, dunno
but, let's do some google-testing:

searching for: povray "particle system"
gives Rune's website before your site :-/ Even Chris Colefax's website 
comes before yours, and he doesn't seem to have made anything new in 2 
years :(

however, searching for: povray particles
gives first Colefax's site, then, at the bottom of the first page, your 
page directly followed by Rune's page

if I search for: povray particle
then Rune's site is the first hit, Colefax's site the second, and you're 
not even on the first page (????)


so, for some reason, google likes Rune's site more than your site, which 
is why I overlooked your site.  My apologies :)

(but I would have made my own system anyway, it's just too fun to do 
things yourself imho :))

(btw, I just noticed: all these searches are apparently done while being 
signed in to Google, so they might be personalised search-results)


cu!
-- 
#macro G(b,e)b+(e-b)*C/50#end#macro _(b,e,k,l)#local C=0;#while(C<50)
sphere{G(b,e)+3*z.1pigment{rgb G(k,l)}finish{ambient 1}}#local C=C+1;
#end#end _(y-x,y,x,x+y)_(y,-x-y,x+y,y)_(-x-y,-y,y,y+z)_(-y,y,y+z,x+y)
_(0x+y.5+y/2x)_(0x-y.5+y/2x)            // ZK http://www.povplace.com

Post a reply to this message

Zeger Knaepen wrote:
>> Looks nice, especially that fiery animation is great, care to share the 
>> particle's setup (I'm guessing discs with a neatly animated pigment)?
> 
> tnx :)
> 
> yes, the fire and smoke are just discs using these macros as a pigment:
SNIP
> (something like that :))

Thanks, that'll be worth looking into (I always like to toy around with 
procedural textures). :-)

> hmm, sounds interesting and worth checking out !
> let's see :p
> 
> hmm, looks good! I like the particle-splitting-on-collision-feature :) I'm thinking
about how to add that to my system :p

Yeah, "do it yourself" is something I enjoy as well. It's just that when 
you put a lot of effort into creating a system stable and versatile 
enough so that others might benefit, it's kinda sad to see that no one 
seems to use em. :-( Then again, Povers are often all about "do it 
yourself", so maybe I'm just aiming at the wrong market. :-P

>> I guess I have to be more offensive about my Include-Files. I need a 
>> better marketing concept...
> 
> hmm, dunno
> but, let's do some google-testing:
SNIP

Hm, might be that the word "particle" isn't around on my page often 
enough... Google also has this weighting algorithm, so I guess Chris 
Colefax' site might be old, but is linked enough to be of weight, Rune's 
is well spread as well, just look at the various other images that have 
made use of his includes and thus link to him.
I'm guessing that I'm probably well-bookmarked (around 6000 visitors a 
day), but badly linked, then add the missing usage of the word 
"particle" and bingo, I'm lost on page 2... Like I said, I need a better 
marketing strategy. Eh, I'll guess I'll put the word "particle" a dozen 
of times on the page where the system will be downloadable... I'm 
revamping my site, so that shouldn't be a problem. ;-)

Regards,
Tim

-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

Post a reply to this message

"Tim Nikias" <JUS### [at] gmxnetWARE> wrote in message
news:4530036f$1@news.povray.org...
> Yeah, "do it yourself" is something I enjoy as well. It's just that when
> you put a lot of effort into creating a system stable and versatile
> enough so that others might benefit, it's kinda sad to see that no one
> seems to use em. :-( Then again, Povers are often all about "do it
> yourself", so maybe I'm just aiming at the wrong market. :-P

hmm, that's why I'm just making stuff for myself :)  then at least I know the
target-audience will use it :)

> Hm, might be that the word "particle" isn't around on my page often
> enough... Google also has this weighting algorithm, so I guess Chris
> Colefax' site might be old, but is linked enough to be of weight, Rune's
> is well spread as well, just look at the various other images that have
> made use of his includes and thus link to him.
> I'm guessing that I'm probably well-bookmarked (around 6000 visitors a
> day), but badly linked, then add the missing usage of the word
> "particle" and bingo, I'm lost on page 2... Like I said, I need a better
> marketing strategy. Eh, I'll guess I'll put the word "particle" a dozen
> of times on the page where the system will be downloadable... I'm
> revamping my site, so that shouldn't be a problem. ;-)

I'm not sure if just adding the word "particle" a couple of times will really
help :)
being linked to seems to be far more effective !

:) a while ago, if you used the image search on google to search for "atoombom"
(which means nuclear bomb in Dutch), the first hit was my nuclear explosion
image :)
so, I accomplished something in my life, I suppose :p

oh well, googleranking, it still confuses me :)

oh, take a look at that! apparently I'm the first hit again ! :)

cu! :)
--
#macro G(b,e)b+(e-b)*C/50#end#macro _(b,e,k,l)#local C=0;#while(C<50)
sphere{G(b,e)+3*z.1pigment{rgb G(k,l)}finish{ambient 1}}#local C=C+1;
#end#end _(y-x,y,x,x+y)_(y,-x-y,x+y,y)_(-x-y,-y,y,y+z)_(-y,y,y+z,x+y)
_(0x+y.5+y/2x)_(0x-y.5+y/2x)            // ZK http://www.povplace.com

Post a reply to this message

Tim Nikias wrote:
> Yeah, "do it yourself" is something I enjoy as well. It's just that
> when you put a lot of effort into creating a system stable and
> versatile enough so that others might benefit, it's kinda sad to see
> that no one seems to use em. :-( Then again, Povers are often all
> about "do it yourself", so maybe I'm just aiming at the wrong market.
> :-P

I know that feeling...

Anyway, about the popularity and Google ranking, here's a few points to 
consider:

- Showcase the system's usefulness, not its technical capabilities. For your 
first particle system, I remember you spent a lot of time creating 
animations with rainbow-colored bouncing balls and other things, and while 
it's great eye-candy, it won't convince people that your system is useful 
for their particular scene, since people rarely need lots of bouncing balls 
and things like that. Cater to their needs and make it easy for them to see 
that your system does exactly what they want for their scene.

- Making it easy to see that it is useful isn't enough either. Make it easy 
to use too. I notice that your I/O particle system comes with only one 
example animation which does take quite long to render and parse. I think a 
lot of the popularity of my system is due to the fact that it includes no 
less than 9 well documented example animations, all showcasing various 
things that are often requested, and several of them are quick to parse and 
render. They are even the same animations that are used to showcase the 
system on the web page, so the users are shown exactly how to make 
animations like those that attracted their attention in the first place.

- Make your system very visible on your website! Dedicating a page to the 
system really makes it easier to notice, and to link to too! Your I/O 
particle system is currently showcased in a small section at the bottom of 
your download page and represented with two animations on your animations 
page. It's rather easy to miss it, even when looking for it.

All three points will likely make more people use your system and link to it 
if you are aggressive about it, while the last point will also make it more 
attractive for Google. You can even have the word "particle" in the title of 
the page then!

One thing to notice is that all this is a huge amount of work! I think I 
spent 50% time on developing the features of the system and the other 50% 
just on making it attractive and easy to use. It really requires effort. And 
as you hinted, all this effort sometimes doesn't feel worth it in a 
community where everyone prefers to reinvent the wheel anyway. For me, I'm 
glad I put the effort into it, because it was a great learning experience to 
not only develop but also "market" a system effectively, but I probably 
wouldn't do it again to that extent for a POV-Ray include file.

Rune
-- 
http://runevision.com

Post a reply to this message

Zeger Knaepen wrote:
> I call it a "Particlesystem" ! :)

Nice animation.

> no, seriously.  I had to make my own particlesystem, because
> apparently there's no way to randomize Rune's particle-system (the
> variable particle_seed is never used, you might want to look into
> that, Rune :))

That sound odd, but I don't have time to look into it right now (or probably 
anytime soon).

> and I couldn't just change it in his code or I would
> have to release it under the GPL, which I don't like (GPL is like a
> virus: everything that uses something that has it, becomes a GPL'ed
> thing itself).

You sound like it would be almost a brand new system if you fixed this bug 
in my system, and you'd then have to release this "new" system under the GPL 
too. That seems a bit odd to me.

Anyway, I was very reluctant in the beginning to release the system under 
the GPL, but people in the POV community highly requested it (when the 
alternative was a "not for commercial use" clause). I guess you can't please 
everybody.

> As with all my include files, it's not yet finished and maybe never
> will be :-/
> it all depends on how much demand there is for yet another particle
> system.

Only time will tell.

Rune
-- 
http://runevision.com

Post a reply to this message

"Rune" <new### [at] runevisioncom> wrote in message
news:4530317d@news.povray.org...
> Zeger Knaepen wrote:
> > I call it a "Particlesystem" ! :)
>
> Nice animation.

thank you !

> > no, seriously.  I had to make my own particlesystem, because
> > apparently there's no way to randomize Rune's particle-system (the
> > variable particle_seed is never used, you might want to look into
> > that, Rune :))
>
> That sound odd, but I don't have time to look into it right now (or probably
> anytime soon).

maybe I have an older version or something like that, never really bothered to
download your system again and double check it

> > and I couldn't just change it in his code or I would
> > have to release it under the GPL, which I don't like (GPL is like a
> > virus: everything that uses something that has it, becomes a GPL'ed
> > thing itself).
>
> You sound like it would be almost a brand new system if you fixed this bug
> in my system, and you'd then have to release this "new" system under the GPL
> too. That seems a bit odd to me.

no, but if I make something, anything, with your system, don't I have to release
that something under the GPL ?

oh, doesn't really matter, you know, the GPL and the problem with randomness
were just excuses to get me started on my own system :)

> Anyway, I was very reluctant in the beginning to release the system under
> the GPL, but people in the POV community highly requested it (when the
> alternative was a "not for commercial use" clause). I guess you can't please
> everybody.

nobody ever can, but please don't take any of this as an insult or anything, I
just like to make my own stuff

cu!
--
#macro G(b,e)b+(e-b)*C/50#end#macro _(b,e,k,l)#local C=0;#while(C<50)
sphere{G(b,e)+3*z.1pigment{rgb G(k,l)}finish{ambient 1}}#local C=C+1;
#end#end _(y-x,y,x,x+y)_(y,-x-y,x+y,y)_(-x-y,-y,y,y+z)_(-y,y,y+z,x+y)
_(0x+y.5+y/2x)_(0x-y.5+y/2x)            // ZK http://www.povplace.com

Post a reply to this message

Rune wrote:
> Anyway, about the popularity and Google ranking, here's a few points to 
> consider:
> 
> - Showcase the system's usefulness, not its technical capabilities. For your 
> first particle system, I remember you spent a lot of time creating 
> animations with rainbow-colored bouncing balls and other things, and while 
> it's great eye-candy, it won't convince people that your system is useful 
> for their particular scene, since people rarely need lots of bouncing balls 
> and things like that. Cater to their needs and make it easy for them to see 
> that your system does exactly what they want for their scene.
> 
> - Making it easy to see that it is useful isn't enough either. Make it easy 
> to use too. I notice that your I/O particle system comes with only one 
> example animation which does take quite long to render and parse. I think a 
> lot of the popularity of my system is due to the fact that it includes no 
> less than 9 well documented example animations, all showcasing various 
> things that are often requested, and several of them are quick to parse and 
> render. They are even the same animations that are used to showcase the 
> system on the web page, so the users are shown exactly how to make 
> animations like those that attracted their attention in the first place.
> 
> - Make your system very visible on your website! Dedicating a page to the 
> system really makes it easier to notice, and to link to too! Your I/O 
> particle system is currently showcased in a small section at the bottom of 
> your download page and represented with two animations on your animations 
> page. It's rather easy to miss it, even when looking for it.

The "Rune-Three-Steps-To-Fame" program is set in my mind now, don't 
worry. :-)

I've been rehauling my website lately (whenever I have the time for it), 
and I've thought about introducing "R&D", aka Research and Development 
as its own section. Research will cover things that are natively in 
POV-Ray, like Radiosity and eventually Photons (the same questions come 
up every now and then, so some research is in order), in Development 
I'll showcase my Include-Files. And, like you said, instead of spreading 
the animations, images and include-files across the entire site, I'll 
more likely feature the particle-system on its own page, with links and 
thumbnails to the various demonstrations I've got.
R&D might be a little confusing for those that don't yet know what to 
expect behind it, but I guess after the initial confusion which my new 
website will probably create anyway, it'll fit nicely. :-)

And yeah, I guess I should take a look at my demonstration file and 
simplify it, aside of creating a few more...

Regards,
Tim

-- 
aka "Tim Nikias"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>

Post a reply to this message