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So, I've finished the Teaser for my ongoing project, a short made with Silo,
POV-Ray and some coding skill. ;-)
Because of the filesize, I can't upload the teaser here, but for anyone
who's interested:
http://www.nolights.de/chasm/chasm_teaser_divx.avi
Obviously, as you can see by the name, the video is encoded with Divx and
MP3 for the Audio, so you'll need those two to view it.
I'm planning on making a seperate sub-section on my website for the short,
but as it is all still in preproduction, there's not much to show yet. I'm
still designing things and have not even a finished character, but the main
part's of the story are done, although they're shifting around in what
manner they'll take place... I hope to complete some designs real soon ( if
the spare time and creative mind allow it), in order to begin rendering the
first few things to show off.
Comments and questions in regard to the Teaser would be welcome! :-)
Regards,
Tim
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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Tim Nikias wrote:
> Comments and questions in regard to the Teaser would be welcome! :-)
Looks very professional! I was hoping to see the "children", so it's a
good teaser! ;-)
One sentence struck me as oddly worded. I'd have said "Some thing would
have best been left imperfect" perhaps. Or just "Some things should have
been left imperfect".
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Luke, the Force is a powerful ally,
second only to The QuickSave.
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> Looks very professional! I was hoping to see the "children", so it's a
> good teaser! ;-)
Hehe, thank you! :-)
> One sentence struck me as oddly worded. I'd have said "Some thing would
> have best been left imperfect" perhaps. Or just "Some things should have
> been left imperfect".
"Some things had better been left imperfect" is what I wrote, I thought it
expresses how it's more of a thought, than a fact, that some things
shouldn't have been perfected. Not?
Regards,
Tim
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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Tim Nikias wrote:
> "Some things had better been left imperfect" is what I wrote, I thought it
> expresses how it's more of a thought, than a fact, that some things
> shouldn't have been perfected. Not?
I'm just saying, as a native speaker of American english, the verb
construction sounds awkward. While "had been left imperfect" is a good
conjugation, putting the "better" in there without adjusting the tense
throws the sentence off.
Hmmm... The problem, I think, is that "had been left imperfect" is
(IIRC) future-perfect. It's something that's saying "when viewed from
the future, this already had passed and continued for a while." "I had
been running when..." Throwing the "better" in there negates the sense
of the sentence, so there's an awkwardness in the phrasing. You're
saying "as viewed from the future, it hasn't happened", but the sentence
doesn't have any subjunctive in it to tell you it's a hypothetical.
You're saying they *had* been left imperfect, then negating it, basically.
Maybe it sounds right if you're British or something? :-) It was just
kind of jarring, because it didn't sound right. "Some things would
better have been left imperfect" is the closest I can think of. You need
the "should" or "would" in there, methinks.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Luke, the Force is a powerful ally,
second only to The QuickSave.
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> I'm just saying, as a native speaker of American english, the verb...
I'm native speaker of American english as well, just don't have that much
practice. Living in Germany and all, you know. Not much people around with
whom to converse to keep a steady idea of how english is meant to be, if you
understand what I mean.
> ...construction sounds awkward. While "had been left imperfect" is a good
> conjugation, putting the "better" in there without adjusting the tense
> throws the sentence off.
> SNIP some more insightful stuff, but too long to quote again...
Yeah, you're line of argumentation makes sense. I'll change those frames
ASAP and will quietly switch the old version with the new one. ;-) Thanks
though, it's always good to be sure that everything is A+. :-)
Regards,
Tim
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Darren New wrote:
> Maybe it sounds right if you're British or something? :-) It was just
> kind of jarring, because it didn't sound right. "Some things would
> better have been left imperfect" is the closest I can think of. You need
> the "should" or "would" in there, methinks.
>
According to this page: http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/029.html
<quote>
Had better is an idiomatic verb phrase meaning ?ought to, must.? It
resembles an auxiliary verb in that its form never changes to show
person or tense and that it can?t follow another verb in a phrase
(that is, you can?t say He will had better leave, for example).
</quote>
So I understand Tim's sentence as meaning: "Some things which ought
to have been left imperfect"
Jerome
PS: However English is not my native language either, so I can't
comment on how frequent this use is (however I think I have already
seen it several times in books...)
- --
******************************
* Jerome M. Berger *
* mailto:jeb### [at] free fr *
* http://jeberger.free.fr/ *
******************************
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFDyBZ/qIYJdJhyixIRAs85AKCqCjhVqRxC0LvAVEnAVuj0yt54zACgiblI
ckV0YDqW/3dEjtp0yXDGPpU=
=DCL7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> Had better is an idiomatic verb phrase meaning ?ought to, must.? It
> PS: However English is not my native language either, so I can't
> comment on how frequent this use is (however I think I have already
> seen it several times in books...)
Yeah, but (bizarrely) it refers to the future. "You had better fix those
bugs before we release, or the customers will complain." In this
context, "Some things had better be left imperfect," would suggest that
it is referring to a future design -- some weapon of the future, perhaps
-- whereas I think Tim is specifically trying to suggest that it is too
late to do anything about it. There isn't a nice way of phrasing it for
the past without doing what Darren did (and Tim subsequently said he was
trying to avoid) and suggesting that it is a fact.
As a British speaker of English, I would hesitate to use "had better" in
a context such as this. I would prefer to rephrase the sentence
completely.
--
Though I'm deep inside a storm it won't defeat me, Floating free.
Look out here comes trouble, Maybe I'm just pushing through a dream,
But strange how things feel quite real to me. http://surreal.istic.org/
That which will guide the lost child back to her mother's arms... EXILE.
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> As a British speaker of English, I would hesitate to use "had better" in
> a context such as this. I would prefer to rephrase the sentence
> completely.
Hm, really? Probably part of the difference between US and British
English... What would you say?
I'll elaborate on the context of the sentence I want to convey (as far as it
is possible with one-liners in a teaser, of course):
As the Teaser says, man is good at getting close to perfection. I then show
a fuse closing in on a stick of dynamite, suggesting another series of
improvements upon that matter. The end-result of an improvement of a stick
of dynamite is debatable, is it just to create more forceful explosions? Or
what about the Neutron bomb, killing only organic matter? It's something I
want to hint at, but not elaborate upon. So I end with saying that with some
things, improvement can be dangerous. And, as is the setting of the short,
mankind blew himself up with the improvements. And thus:
"Some things would better have been left 'imperfect'..."
shortly followed by
"Because that's how he wiped himself off the earth."
Would that be correct, or still clumsy?
Regards,
Tim
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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Tim Nikias wrote:
> "Some things would better have been left 'imperfect'..."
> Would that be correct, or still clumsy?
It certainly sounds correct to me, with the addition of the word "should".
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Luke, the Force is a powerful ally,
second only to The QuickSave.
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> > As a British speaker of English, I would hesitate to use "had
> > better" in a context such as this. I would prefer to rephrase the
> > sentence completely.
>
> Hm, really? Probably part of the difference between US and British
> English... What would you say?
Probably just me, actually. I can't say I use "had better" at all
frequently; it's fine for informal use but I don't like it in writing.
I'd probably go with one of Darren's suggestions, or something like,
"Achieving perfection can sometimes be costly."
> "Some things would better have been left 'imperfect'..."
> Would that be correct, or still clumsy?
I would change the word order to "Some things would have been better
left imperfect," but there's not much to choose between them.
--
I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study
mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and
philosophy... in order to give their children a right to study painting,
poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain. J. Adams
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> > "Some things would better have been left 'imperfect'..."
> > Would that be correct, or still clumsy?
>
> It certainly sounds correct to me, with the addition of the word "should".
So you mean "Some things should better have been left 'imperfect'..."?
Cause I don't see where I could *add* that word...
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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Interesting. Though because all you're showing is a few rotating objects I
think you really need some work on the materials so they look more
realistic. The stones are almost flat grey (though with a nice specular
highlight on the first one) and the first sword doesn't look like metal, and
it also appears to be completely blunt. Also the wood and leather are just
flat brown, rather than showing grains and wear patterns like one might
expect. The samurai sword looks pretty good.
If that's all you're going to show us for now it should look as good as you
can make it, IMO.
--
Tek
http://evilsuperbrain.com
"Tim Nikias" <JUSTTHELOWERCASE:timISNOTnikias(at)gmx.netWARE> wrote in
message news:43c79f11$1@news.povray.org...
> So, I've finished the Teaser for my ongoing project, a short made with
> Silo,
> POV-Ray and some coding skill. ;-)
>
> Because of the filesize, I can't upload the teaser here, but for anyone
> who's interested:
>
> http://www.nolights.de/chasm/chasm_teaser_divx.avi
>
> Obviously, as you can see by the name, the video is encoded with Divx and
> MP3 for the Audio, so you'll need those two to view it.
>
> I'm planning on making a seperate sub-section on my website for the short,
> but as it is all still in preproduction, there's not much to show yet. I'm
> still designing things and have not even a finished character, but the
> main
> part's of the story are done, although they're shifting around in what
> manner they'll take place... I hope to complete some designs real soon (
> if
> the spare time and creative mind allow it), in order to begin rendering
> the
> first few things to show off.
>
> Comments and questions in regard to the Teaser would be welcome! :-)
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> --
> aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
> Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
>
>
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> Interesting. Though because all you're showing is a few rotating objects I
> think you really need some work on the materials so they look more
> realistic. The stones are almost flat grey (though with a nice specular
> highlight on the first one) and the first sword doesn't look like metal,
and
> it also appears to be completely blunt. Also the wood and leather are just
> flat brown, rather than showing grains and wear patterns like one might
> expect. The samurai sword looks pretty good.
>
> If that's all you're going to show us for now it should look as good as
you
> can make it, IMO.
Thanks for the comment. The idea was to show that I'm not after a very
realistic rendering at all, but rather more stylized and recognizable. So
yeah, the sword looks blunt and the textures are more or less like colored
with crayons. It's less about how good I can make it (I know that I could do
much better if I wanted to), but more, what do I want my audience to expect
the short will look like? If I go 100% realism here, I'm sure I'd disappoint
in the short. Though I want to make the short as I good as I can, there's a
limit to how long I want to spend on scenes and, especially, how long do I
want them to render.
I might have gone a little further than I took it, but I'd rather improve
for the short, than the other way round. :-)
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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Most impressive. I'm really liking the lighting and backgrounds...
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> Most impressive. I'm really liking the lighting and backgrounds...
Thanks! Backgrounds, eh? So you like the blackness, the emptiness of space?
;-)
Or do you mean the lightbeams? Put a tiny, weeny little effort on them, to
get the angles right and a moving, cloudy-like behaviour, along with enough
sampling to have them look smooth. Media kills the rendertimes every now and
then, but who doesn't know that? :-)
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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Tim Nikias wrote:
>>>"Some things would better have been left 'imperfect'..."
>>>Would that be correct, or still clumsy?
>>
>>It certainly sounds correct to me, with the addition of the word "should".
> So you mean "Some things should better have been left 'imperfect'..."?
> Cause I don't see where I could *add* that word...
Sorry. I misread your "would" as "should". What you wrote is fine,
because you added "would" is what I meant to say. :-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Luke, the Force is a powerful ally,
second only to The QuickSave.
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"Tim Nikias" <JUSTTHELOWERCASE:timISNOTnikias(at)gmx.netWARE> wrote:
> > > "Some things would better have been left 'imperfect'..."
> > > Would that be correct, or still clumsy?
> >
> > It certainly sounds correct to me, with the addition of the word "should".
>
> So you mean "Some things should better have been left 'imperfect'..."?
>
> Cause I don't see where I could *add* that word...
>
> --
> aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
> Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
Just a thought but would "Some things had best been left imperfect" be
better?
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Ah, well that's a good point. I was just following the rule that teasers
always look absolutely amazing, usually out of all proportion to the
finished product :)
I can understand using this style in a full animation, last time I did a
long anim I used the rule of no render times of more than 10 seconds a
frame! I was just looking at the short in itself.
Though hurry up and finish the short! I want to see it now.
--
Tek
http://evilsuperbrain.com
"Tim Nikias" <JUSTTHELOWERCASE:timISNOTnikias(at)gmx.netWARE> wrote in
message news:43c8fc55$1@news.povray.org...
>> Interesting. Though because all you're showing is a few rotating objects
>> I
>> think you really need some work on the materials so they look more
>> realistic. The stones are almost flat grey (though with a nice specular
>> highlight on the first one) and the first sword doesn't look like metal,
> and
>> it also appears to be completely blunt. Also the wood and leather are
>> just
>> flat brown, rather than showing grains and wear patterns like one might
>> expect. The samurai sword looks pretty good.
>>
>> If that's all you're going to show us for now it should look as good as
> you
>> can make it, IMO.
>
> Thanks for the comment. The idea was to show that I'm not after a very
> realistic rendering at all, but rather more stylized and recognizable. So
> yeah, the sword looks blunt and the textures are more or less like colored
> with crayons. It's less about how good I can make it (I know that I could
> do
> much better if I wanted to), but more, what do I want my audience to
> expect
> the short will look like? If I go 100% realism here, I'm sure I'd
> disappoint
> in the short. Though I want to make the short as I good as I can, there's
> a
> limit to how long I want to spend on scenes and, especially, how long do I
> want them to render.
>
> I might have gone a little further than I took it, but I'd rather improve
> for the short, than the other way round. :-)
>
> --
> aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
> Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
>
>
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On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:37:22 +0100, "Tim Nikias"
<JUSTTHELOWERCASE:timISNOTnikias(at)gmx.netWARE> wrote:
>
>Comments and questions in regard to the Teaser would be welcome! :-)
I like the titles, zoom and timing. Well it could have been a little
faster for me but then Tom Melly says I'm impatient. Yes there is a
bit of suspense and that grabs your attention.
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> I like the titles, zoom and timing. Well it could have been a little
> faster for me but then Tom Melly says I'm impatient. Yes there is a
> bit of suspense and that grabs your attention.
Thanks! I don't know if it's noticeable, but everytime I zoom in, the next
part is that size, so it gets increasingly bigger, until you come to the
conclusion. After that, it's not "telling the story" anymore, so I went with
sizes that look good.
As for the timing, I personally could do with a faster fade as well. But
you've got to give the viewer enough time to properly read and understand it
the first time, and when they don't know how much text there'll be, they
might need a beat to get their eyes on the first word.
Regards,
Tim
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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> Ah, well that's a good point. I was just following the rule that teasers
> always look absolutely amazing, usually out of all proportion to the
> finished product :)
Yeah, I hate that myself, so why do it? :-)
> Though hurry up and finish the short! I want to see it now.
Uh... You did read that "A short in PRE-PRODUCTION" part, right? It might
take quite a while...
Regards,
Tim
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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> Just a thought but would "Some things had best been left imperfect" be
> better?
Hm. Personally, I don't think the style of that sentence fits with the final
statement "Because that's how he wiped himself off the earth."
Might have worked at an earlier time, but now I guess I'm too attached to
the current phrasing...
Regards,
Tim
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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"Tim Nikias" <JUSTTHELOWERCASE:timISNOTnikias(at)gmx.netWARE> wrote:
> > Just a thought but would "Some things had best been left imperfect" be
> > better?
>
> Hm. Personally, I don't think the style of that sentence fits with the final
> statement "Because that's how he wiped himself off the earth."
>
> Might have worked at an earlier time, but now I guess I'm too attached to
> the current phrasing...
Hmmmm another varient, maybe: "Some things would have been better... had
they been left imperfect."
PS Hurray, the system let me log on! (It doesn't normally let me)
Charles
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On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 03:31:36 +0100, "Tim Nikias"
<JUSTTHELOWERCASE:timISNOTnikias(at)gmx.netWARE> wrote:
>> I like the titles, zoom and timing. Well it could have been a little
>> faster for me but then Tom Melly says I'm impatient. Yes there is a
>> bit of suspense and that grabs your attention.
>
>Thanks! I don't know if it's noticeable, but everytime I zoom in, the next
>part is that size, so it gets increasingly bigger, until you come to the
>conclusion. After that, it's not "telling the story" anymore, so I went with
>sizes that look good.
Not till you mentioned it. Something must have rubbed off working in a
cinema all those years :-)
>As for the timing, I personally could do with a faster fade as well. But
>you've got to give the viewer enough time to properly read and understand it
>the first time, and when they don't know how much text there'll be, they
>might need a beat to get their eyes on the first word.
>
Yes that is something I did not think of. Everyone has their own
reading speed and for me, the slight frustration of wanting to turn
the page adds to the suspense.
These things, IMO, make it a good trailer irrespective of the content
or the wording.
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> These things, IMO, make it a good trailer irrespective of the content
> or the wording.
Thanks for the praise. I just hope I think about everything when I make my
short. :-)
Regards,
Tim
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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I think I understand what you are trying to convey Tim. You want it to
be more a statement in hindsight rather than a statement of fact.
I toyed around with a few sentences myself and finally came up with..
It might have been better to have left some things imperfect.
What do you think?
Love the teaser can't wait for the final.
Regards
Dave.
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> I think I understand what you are trying to convey Tim. You want it to
> be more a statement in hindsight rather than a statement of fact.
>
> I toyed around with a few sentences myself and finally came up with..
>
> It might have been better to have left some things imperfect.
>
> What do you think?
A mighty long sentence. :-) Would throw the timing off, as I'd need to show
that one longer in order to be sure that it can be read in time. It does
convey my idea though, but I think I'll leave the trailer as it is now.
Thanks anyway!
> Love the teaser can't wait for the final.
Thanks! I'm glad people here are Povers, so they are used to having
patience. I'm not even 100% sure if I can get the short done this year as
there are things ahead of me which'll probably require quite some time. But
I hope to have some thing to show soon, so that I can create a small webpage
for it and keep peeps updated. :-)
Regards,
Tim
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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Just for those interested (and this seems the proper thread for that): I've
made a small site to showcase the Teaser (and eventually Behind the Scenes
stuff like test-renders and test-animations, once I get to that phase :-) )
and create a place where people should look if they want to know if there's
been progress.
http://www.nolights.de/chasm/index.html
The site will probably change and evolve once I get a better idea of how
much and what I want to reveal before the short is finished. After all, I
don't want to give the ending away. :-)
Regards,
Tim
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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Well, I most definately want to see MORE! =)
And, I assume you learn a lot during the process of making Chasm.
Maybe you will afterwards put up some general tips based on your experience
for other potential animation creators out there..? like me... =)
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> Well, I most definately want to see MORE! =)
Good, mission accomplished. :-)
> And, I assume you learn a lot during the process of making Chasm.
> Maybe you will afterwards put up some general tips based on your
experience
> for other potential animation creators out there..? like me... =)
I surely will. At the moment things are moving at a very slow pace, I'm
working on the "Down the Drain" image and have a lot to do with digitally
reconstructing a castle that was destroyed 1763. Aside of that, I've got
other worries that need taking care of.
Generally, things start out just like you create still images. You need to
find a lighting that fits, proper colors and contrasts, camera angles...
It's a little more difficult for an animation because you'll probably end up
having to create a set which will look good from various points instead of
just one. But I'll share tips and troubles I run into on the website, as far
as they don't spoil the story.
Regards,
Tim
--
aka "Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
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