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I've decided to post this even though it is not finished and if my feelings at
the present are anything to go by it will never get finished:-{
I started the work in poser in February this year using BHV motion files to
generate meshes, and it's been a pain (RSI).
Anyway credits:
The Poser model and the system to calculate the hair and breast movement is from
Masa's Poser ++ site. http://www.eurus.dti.ne.jp/~masasi/index.html
I know the hair is wrong but I used extreme settings and I can't be bothered to
redo it :-{
The media is modified from one submitted to Moray by Tim Cook.
The bad taste and poor modelling is mine.
Regards
Stephen
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Wow! :o) The movements may be a bit overdriven but it's convincing! What
are these BHV motion files? Did you make the keyframes in Poser and
interpolated them with POV?
The womans shadow is a bit strange, and the floor is very noisy so you may
want to disable jittering from the area lights. But the point of this is
clearly the woman and this animation is very nice!
Regards,
Hugo
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On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:46:25 +0200, "Hugo Asm" <hua### [at] post3 teledk> wrote:
>Wow! :o) The movements may be a bit overdriven but it's convincing!
Overdriven? It is only 15 frames per sec but 260 frames long so it is a bit
jerky. I intended to retime it to 30 fps but got fed up working on it. Just
posted it for closure (I think that's the term :- } )
>What are these BHV motion files? Did you make the keyframes in Poser and
>interpolated them with POV?
The BHV motion files contain, in this case 240, keyframes of a Poser model's
position in text format derived from a real persons movement. I tided up the
Poser model, then I created Alias Wavefront obj files and converted them to
mesh's with 3DWin to import to Pov via Moray.
>The womans shadow is a bit strange, and the floor is very noisy so you may
>want to disable jittering from the area lights.
Oh dear! So much for artistic intent. The floor is media intended to be fog or
mist. I notice that the reddish container is noisy when the camera is panning so
that's a poor choice of material on my part. I never use jitter or crand and the
light is a point light
>But the point of this is
>clearly the woman and this animation is very nice!
Thanks
Regards
Stephen
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PS for some BVH files.
http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs348c/BVH/SantaMonicaStudios/
Regards
Stephen
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> The movements may be a bit overdriven but it's convincing!
>
> Overdriven? It is only 15 frames per sec ... so it is a bit jerky.
I meant the womans attempt at keeping balance looks a bit overdriven. It's
due to the way she wave her hands. Of course I should have written this,
instead of an ambigious statement.
> The BHV motion files contain, in this case 240, keyframes of a Poser
> model's position in text format derived from a real persons movement.
The way I understand this, you have manually transferred real world motion
captures to a Poser model of your choice? Well, it worked, but I can't judge
the technical merit when I don't know much about Poser.
> >The womans shadow is a bit strange, and the floor is very noisy so you
> >may want to disable jittering from the area lights.
>
> Oh dear! So much for artistic intent.
Never mind.. :o) Artists are easily misunderstood.
Regards,
Hugo
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On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:25:00 +0200, "Hugo Asm" <hua### [at] post3teledk> wrote:
>I meant the womans attempt at keeping balance looks a bit overdriven. It's
>due to the way she wave her hands. Of course I should have written this,
>instead of an ambigious statement.
Yes the woman's attempt at keeping balance is a bit overdriven. I think she is
having difficulty.
>The way I understand this, you have manually transferred real world motion
>captures to a Poser model of your choice? Well, it worked, but I can't judge
>the technical merit when I don't know much about Poser.
Poser imports the BVH file and applies the movement automatically. I had to tidy
up the feet movement as the original model used a treadmill and the X and Z axis
motion added later. Doing this several times was a pain.
Regards
Stephen
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>>The movements may be a bit overdriven
I dont think they are overdriven I just think it was done using the Poser
"Vodka" Plugin
;)
I like it.. very convincing.
Dont think you should give up on it I personally would like to see a 30fps
version.
Dave.
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Not bad. I'd say the problem with the animation is that
there's need to interpolate the keyframes, and the media
below requires some more samples/intervals.
Aside of that, I can only say that the hair movement is
clearly visible, but the breast movement isn't. Perhaps
this is due to the low resolution of the animation.
Some rather realistic setup (not that radioactive fog :-)
along with some nice lights might have made a better
animation. When viewing scenes like this, I always
ask myself why certain elements are in the scene. Its
much like viewing Matrix Reloaded and asking yourself
why Neo doesn't fly off right away...
--
Tim Nikias v2.0
Homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de/no_lights
Email: Tim### [at] gmxde
> I've decided to post this even though it is not finished and if my
feelings at
> the present are anything to go by it will never get finished:-{
> I started the work in poser in February this year using BHV motion files
to
> generate meshes, and it's been a pain (RSI).
> Anyway credits:
> The Poser model and the system to calculate the hair and breast movement
is from
> Masa's Poser ++ site. http://www.eurus.dti.ne.jp/~masasi/index.html
> I know the hair is wrong but I used extreme settings and I can't be
bothered to
> redo it :-{
> The media is modified from one submitted to Moray by Tim Cook.
> The bad taste and poor modelling is mine.
>
> Regards
> Stephen
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On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:18:55 +0200, "Tim Nikias v2.0" <tim### [at] gmxde> wrote:
>Not bad. I'd say the problem with the animation is that
>there's need to interpolate the keyframes,
The keyframes are the problem. Every frame is a keyframe due to the nature of
the BVH file. That's why I got sick of it.
>and the media
>below requires some more samples/intervals.
Thanks I've just started to work with Media.
>Aside of that, I can only say that the hair movement is
>clearly visible, but the breast movement isn't. Perhaps
>this is due to the low resolution of the animation.
The Hair movement is too extreme, it grows and shrinks a lot. I hid most of it
with the camera position. The breast movement is hidden by the costume. I did
not want to post a scene with full frontal nudity in case it offended.
>Some rather realistic setup (not that radioactive fog :-)
>along with some nice lights might have made a better
>animation.
Point taken. I was going to use your LSSM in the scene but I could not get the
effect I wanted. I'll get back to you on that later if I can't work it out
myself.
>When viewing scenes like this, I always
>ask myself why certain elements are in the scene. Its
>much like viewing Matrix Reloaded and asking yourself
>why Neo doesn't fly off right away...
Duh! I read SF it but never watch it. Maybe an example from classical theatre
:-}
Regards
Stephen
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> The keyframes are the problem. Every frame is a keyframe
> due to the nature of the BVH file. That's why I got sick of it.
Just curious: Does this mean the triangle faces are connected in different
patterns, for each frame? Otherwise they are compatible, and interpolation
is possible. I've done this recently with a simple POV script. So I'd like
to know, why you say they are all keyframes? I realize they all contain
valuable information about the character, but you probably can - at least-
bump up the framerate to 30 by interpolation without problems, just as long
as the mesh is still the same.
Regards,
Hugo
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On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:53:36 +0200, "Hugo Asm" <hua### [at] post3teledk> wrote:
>> The keyframes are the problem. Every frame is a keyframe
>> due to the nature of the BVH file. That's why I got sick of it.
>
>Just curious: Does this mean the triangle faces are connected in different
>patterns, for each frame? Otherwise they are compatible, and interpolation
>is possible. I've done this recently with a simple POV script. So I'd like
>to know, why you say they are all keyframes? I realize they all contain
>valuable information about the character, but you probably can - at least-
>bump up the framerate to 30 by interpolation without problems, just as long
>as the mesh is still the same.
>
Looking at the exported obj file it seems that there is the same number of
triangles but their orientation is different. The connection of their patterns
should be the same but I can't say for sure. The inc file is about 200000 lines
long for the model of the woman.
I say they are all keyframes because in Poser there is no interpolation between
the imported BVH frames. The position and orientation of each part e.g. Right
upper arm is defined by the BVH file for each frame. If I wanted to increase the
frame rate then Poser would interpolate for me.
I posted this animation at 15fps to cut down on size and render time. I need to
use 15fps for the PAE system that calculates the hair and breast movement. If I
were not utterly sick of this animation I would use 30 fps.
Over the weekend I will do a new one using a different motion at 30 fps.
I hope have answered your query in an understandable way but I'm no expert.
Regards
Stephen
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> Looking at the exported obj file it seems that there is the same number of
> triangles but their orientation is different. The connection of their
patterns
> should be the same but I can't say for sure.
I would be surprised if they aren't the same, because you're skewing the
same character. It's possible that Poser tries to smooth out some joints
after you have applied the BVH motion, thereby making interpolation
troubleful.
Have you seen:
http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.animations/31438/
I must say, that even if it works and POV-Ray can interpolate the data,
you'll need a few hours of manual work to prepare the files to be read by
the macro I've written in POV-Ray. It's easy, but takes some time because
you have so many keyframes. At the moment, there are unfortunately no way
for POV-Ray macros to work directly on data encapsulated in a mesh2 file.
Regards,
Hugo
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On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 23:41:03 +0200, "Hugo Asm" <hua### [at] post3teledk> wrote:
>Have you seen:
>http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.animations/31438/
I have now:-} I tried blender and did not like it. I've never gotten into making
my own meshes, not enough hours in the week :-{ Kitsune_e 's animation is cute.
>I must say, that even if it works and POV-Ray can interpolate the data,
>you'll need a few hours of manual work to prepare the files to be read by
>the macro I've written in POV-Ray. It's easy, but takes some time because
>you have so many keyframes. At the moment, there are unfortunately no way
>for POV-Ray macros to work directly on data encapsulated in a mesh2 file.
IIt sounds interesting maybe useful for other projects. I've found a workaround
for having to convert to 15 fps then back to 30 fps so I'll stick to what works
for me just now. One of the problems with Povray projects is that I keep having
to learn new programmes and techniques. No problem with that but it's so
distracting and time consuming going off at tangents. (Must get back to Fractint
someday, I only "looked" at Povray so I could draw fractal landscapes Ha! This
programme should have a health warning - Can become addictive)
Regards
Stephen
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*Grin*
very nice work
Im not sure what is involved with this type of thing but the end product is
very good.
Keep up the good work ;)
Dave
<mca### [at] aolcom (S McAvoy)> wrote in message
news:3eecba3b.76149817@news.povray.org...
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:30:15 +0100, "Davey B"
<kryten@*remove*totalise.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > >>The movements may be a bit overdriven
> >
> >I dont think they are overdriven I just think it was done using the Poser
> >"Vodka" Plugin
> >
> Herb vodka maybe :-}
> >
> >I like it.. very convincing.
> >
> >Dont think you should give up on it I personally would like to see a
30fps
> >version.
> >
>
> You don't know what your asking. I spent months on and off just getting
the feet
> right. That would be fine if I wanted to be a Poser 4 addict :-} So here's
> another BVH derived one that I did over the weekend at 30 fps.
>
>
> Regards
> Stephen
>
>
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I'm glad you like it but the process is very mechanical.
Create an animated figure in Poser the export the series of meshes. Convert the
meshes to, in my case, UDO's so I can build a supporting scene in Moray. Export
to Povray then tweak the Povray code to use a different mesh for each frame. The
textures of the model come from Poser.
Now that I've worked out the technique I find the application limited due to
A) the unvarying motion of BVH files. I mean they are difficult to modify
and you are stuck with what you can find on the web.
B) my poor Poser expertise.
I think it has been a worthwhile project but its time to do something
different.
Onwards, outwards and upwards! Space-cadet.
Regards
Stephen
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From: DigitalTwilight
Subject: Re: High Wire BHV WIP - bal20_hi1k2.mpg (1/1)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 18:21:45
Message: <3f020979@news.povray.org>
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Nice work!
But in ballett, if you do a thing like that, you should
stretch your right leg far out when in front of you.
Just a little hint.
Keep on working. Great success is near. :-)
--
DigitalTwilight
#homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de
#email: kin### [at] gmxnet
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:20:17 +0200, "DigitalTwilight" <kin### [at] gmxnet>
wrote:
>Nice work!
>
>But in ballett, if you do a thing like that, you should
>stretch your right leg far out when in front of you.
>Just a little hint.
>
>Keep on working. Great success is near. :-)
>--
You must have missed an earlier part of the thread. The models movement is from
a BVH file where a live actor has sensors placed on their body and the movement
is recorded. Therefore changing the motion becomes a Poser skill. I got put off
after working on an animation posted as Hiwire (?) and will not be continuing
this sort of thing any time soon :-{
Thanks for the comment though as any encouragement is appreciated.
Regards
Stephen
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From: DigitalTwilight
Subject: Re: High Wire BHV WIP - bal20_hi1k2.mpg (1/1)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 05:54:37
Message: <3f02abdd$1@news.povray.org>
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> You must have missed an earlier part of the thread. The models movement is
from
> a BVH file where a live actor has sensors placed on their body and the
movement
> is recorded. Therefore changing the motion becomes a Poser skill. I got
put off
> after working on an animation posted as Hiwire (?) and will not be
continuing
> this sort of thing any time soon :-{
> Thanks for the comment though as any encouragement is appreciated.
Jup, I must have missed it. Did it was a kind of motion capturing?
Motion capturing is a good way to copy the movements of a real
person. But for me it sometimes looks a bit too static. After capturing
the motions must be edited to smooth them. Have you seen
"The final flight of the Osiris" of the Animatrix-series? There they
proofed that motion capturing can look very good.
Well, I haven't done anything with POV-Ray for long time. I think it
is time for me to get to work.
DigitalTwilight
#homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de
#email: kin### [at] gmxnet
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On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:53:08 +0200, "DigitalTwilight" <kin### [at] gmxnet>
wrote:
>Jup, I must have missed it. Did it was a kind of motion capturing?
Yup, "motion capturing" that's the phrase.
>Motion capturing is a good way to copy the movements of a real
>person. But for me it sometimes looks a bit too static. After capturing
>the motions must be edited to smooth them.
Tell me about it! :-}
>Have you seen
>"The final flight of the Osiris" of the Animatrix-series? There they
>proofed that motion capturing can look very good.
No, I'm not a great movie fan. I posted another motion capture animation here.
http://news.povray.org/moray.binaries/29025/
It was my first attempt and the textures and props are poor.
>Well, I haven't done anything with POV-Ray for long time. I think it
>is time for me to get to work.
Who am I to disagree? :-}
Regards
Stephen
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From: DigitalTwilight
Subject: Re: High Wire BHV WIP - bal20_hi1k2.mpg (1/1)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 15:06:17
Message: <3f032d29@news.povray.org>
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> >Motion capturing is a good way to copy the movements of a real
> >person. But for me it sometimes looks a bit too static. After capturing
> >the motions must be edited to smooth them.
>
> Tell me about it! :-}
I don't know that much about the workflow but you can read a bit
about it on this site:
http://www.metamotion.com
> >Have you seen
> >"The final flight of the Osiris" of the Animatrix-series? There they
> >proofed that motion capturing can look very good.
>
> No, I'm not a great movie fan. I posted another motion capture animation
here.
> http://news.povray.org/moray.binaries/29025/
> It was my first attempt and the textures and props are poor.
Hey that one is quite cool. I think its Capoeira (Brazilian Martial Art)
I think I should also work a bit more with Poser.
Regards,
DigitalTwilight
#homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de
#email: kin### [at] gmxnet
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On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:04:47 +0200, "DigitalTwilight" <kin### [at] gmxnet>
wrote:
>> Tell me about it! :-}
>
>I don't know that much about the workflow but you can read a bit
>about it on this site:
I'm so sorry, that is an ironic phrase. It really means "There is no need to
tell me about it as I know all about it". In casual conversation we (Britt's)
often say the opposite of what we mean with an exasperated tone. I should not
have used it here as it leads to confusion. All I can say in my defence is that
the standard of English here is so high that it is easy to forget. Any more
would be off topic.
>
>Hey that one is quite cool. I think its Capoeira (Brazilian Martial Art)
>
>I think I should also work a bit more with Poser.
>
Sorry it comes under the category of dance at
http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs348c/BVH/SantaMonicaStudios/
or maybe they are not. I just checked the site and it's not there now. If you
are interested I downloaded all the ones I could find, 330 of them zipped it
comes to 32 meg I could certainly send you some.
Regards
Stephen
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From: DigitalTwilight
Subject: Re: High Wire BHV WIP - bal20_hi1k2.mpg (1/1)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 19:15:34
Message: <3f036796$1@news.povray.org>
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I'm from germany and not that familiar with
little nuances in the meening of some phrases.
I uploaded a trailer to capoeira and the moves
they make are quite similar to those you used.
http://www.digitaltwilight.de/dl/CapoeiraTrailer.mpg (5,5 MB)
--
DigitalTwilight
#homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de
#email: kin### [at] gmxnet
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On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 01:14:04 +0200, "DigitalTwilight" <kin### [at] gmxnet>
wrote:
>I'm from germany and not that familiar with
>little nuances in the meening of some phrases.
My fault
>I uploaded a trailer to capoeira and the moves
>they make are quite similar to those you used.
>
>http://www.digitaltwilight.de/dl/CapoeiraTrailer.mpg (5,5 MB)
>
I downloaded it and see what you mean. I bet that does nothing good for their
joints. I speak from personal experience having practiced Judo in my youth :-{
Regards
Stephen
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From: DigitalTwilight
Subject: Re: High Wire BHV WIP - bal20_hi1k2.mpg (1/1)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 08:26:29
Message: <3f0420f5@news.povray.org>
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> I downloaded it and see what you mean. I bet that does nothing good for
their
> joints. I speak from personal experience having practiced Judo in my youth
:-{
But it looks cool.
Regards,
Flo
--
DigitalTwilight
#homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de
#email: kin### [at] gmxnet
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On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:12:18 -0400, Dick Balaska <dik### [at] seeorganizationfield>
wrote:
>
>Very, very nice. I like the phong off her butt.
>Very nice breast movement on this one. Are you saying she had sensors on her
>breasts for the recording?
No the breast and hair movement was done by a C++ programme by Masa, called PAE
http://www.eurus.dti.ne.jp/~masasi/Service/indexE.html
It calculates the breast and hair movements in relation to the Poser models body
motion.
>
>Too bad her feet go through the floor. (as opposed to your first flick, which
>had exquisite feet movement).
>
So they do, I hadn't noticed. I was in a hurry to do it and at the time I was
more interested in the hair movement and background. If you want to see poor
feet movement look at "High Wire" that took weeks of correcting the feet and
scunnered me :-}
Regards
Stephen
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