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In my particle system I've just implemented support for user-defined
gravity. One use of that is to simulate the gravity of planets etc. That's
what I've attempted in this animation. (The particles are not attracted to
each other though.)
Comments appreciated as always! :)
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
POV-Ray Users: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
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Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download 'gravityfun.mpg' (511 KB)
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"Rune" <run### [at] mobilixnet dk> wrote in message
news:3c0e2e49@news.povray.org...
> In my particle system I've just implemented support for user-defined
> gravity. One use of that is to simulate the gravity of planets etc. That's
> what I've attempted in this animation. (The particles are not attracted to
> each other though.)
>
> Comments appreciated as always! :)
What finally happens? Do they all impact a planet? If my mental
simulation is correct, they would all have to...
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"Bill DeWitt" wrote:
> What finally happens? Do they all impact a planet?
Of course I haven't tried it, but I think most (maybe all) will impact a
planet but some might leave the system (that happened in some other tests).
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
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Curiouser and curiouser...
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Cool!
--
- Nekar
http://nekar_xenos.tripod.com/metanoia/
---
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Rune wrote:
>
> > What finally happens? Do they all impact a planet?
>
> Of course I haven't tried it, but I think most (maybe all) will impact a
> planet but some might leave the system (that happened in some other tests).
>
But be careful with concluding too much from it. After some time the
system might differ quite a lot from the physically accurate one because
inaccuracies of the numerical simulation grow. A standard way of testing
this (and also a method for correction) is to calculate the total energy
of each particle which has to stay constant (apart from collisions).
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
IsoWood include, radiosity tutorial, TransSkin and other
things on: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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"Christoph Hormann" wrote:
> But be careful with concluding too much from it.
> After some time the system might differ quite a
> lot from the physically accurate one because
> inaccuracies of the numerical simulation grow.
I'm not sure I like what I hear. Are you implying that my particle system
may not be good enough for NASA to use?
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
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"Tony[B]" wrote:
> Curiouser and curiouser...
Curious about what?
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
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"Nekar Xenos" wrote:
> Cool!
Thanks!
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
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"Rune" <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
news:3c0e39ec@news.povray.org...
> "Bill DeWitt" wrote:
> > What finally happens? Do they all impact a planet?
>
> Of course I haven't tried it, but I think most (maybe all) will impact a
> planet but some might leave the system (that happened in some other
tests).
>
From what I remember, there's no dfinate way to predict particle (planet)
motion around two larger bodies. The orbits of planets around a binary
couple get very chaotic, very quickly. Now where'd I see that article?
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In article <3c0e39ec@news.povray.org>, run### [at] mobilixnetdk
says...
> Of course I haven't tried it, but I think most (maybe all) will impact a
> planet but some might leave the system (that happened in some other tests).
Then you have a problem. They should't be able to do this (unless they
have a high initial speed) because of energy-conservation.
I tried a similar thing (in C, but 2D), and had the problem that some
partices that passed the gravity-source in small dinstance tend to gain a
lot of speed, because the gravity force varies very much in a very small
area, so the simulation gets unaccurate.
Or maybe some kind of "adaptive iteration step length" could help here.
Lutz-Peter
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"Lutz-Peter Hooge" <lpv### [at] gmxde> wrote :
>
> Then you have a problem. They should't be able to do this (unless they
> have a high initial speed) because of energy-conservation.
Um... I am probably the last person to challenge this, but "evaporation"
of an orbital system is pretty common. Energy is conserved, as it is taken
from other objects. Some things slow down and other things speed up.
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"Lutz-Peter Hooge" wrote:
> Then you have a problem. They should't be able to
> do this (unless they have a high initial speed)
> because of energy-conservation.
Sure, but what's considered high initial speed? I think the particles have
high initial speed...
> I tried a similar thing (in C, but 2D), and had the
> problem that some partices that passed the
> gravity-source in small dinstance tend to gain a
> lot of speed, because the gravity force varies very
> much in a very small area, so the simulation gets
> unaccurate.
My particles collide with the planet before that happens.
> Or maybe some kind of "adaptive iteration step length"
> could help here.
Haha, that's completely out of the question with my system. Having each
particle have differently spaced interation steps - that sure would be a
mess, and practically impossible to code into my system...
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
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In article <3c0e58e2$1@news.povray.org>, bde### [at] cflrrcom says...
> Energy is conserved, as it is taken
> from other objects. Some things slow down and other things speed up.
Yep, in reality, but this can't be the case here, because in this
particle system, the particles themselves doesn't influence each
other....
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"Rune" wrote:
> My particles collide with the planet before that happens.
Of course that only applies to this animation, not my system in general.
Because the system is so flexible, it's up to the user to make sure unwanted
effects don't take place.
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
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In article <3c0e5a4a@news.povray.org>, run### [at] mobilixnetdk
says...
> Sure, but what's considered high initial speed? I think the particles have
> high initial speed...
I think, they would escape the system immediately if they had sufficient
energy. I maybe wrong though.
> My particles collide with the planet before that happens.
Perhaps the effect isn't visible at once, but accumulates?
> Haha, that's completely out of the question with my system. Having each
> particle have differently spaced interation steps - that sure would be a
> mess, and practically impossible to code into my system...
Yes, it was just an idea, and probably anyway overkill unless you want to
accurately simulate a solar system :-)
Lutz-Peter
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"Lutz-Peter Hooge" <lpv### [at] gmxde> wrote in message
news:MPG.16787994d47543659896c6@news.povray.org...
> In article <3c0e58e2$1@news.povray.org>, bde### [at] cflrrcom says...
>
> > Energy is conserved, as it is taken
> > from other objects. Some things slow down and other things speed up.
>
> Yep, in reality, but this can't be the case here, because in this
> particle system, the particles themselves doesn't influence each
> other....
Ah, I didn't read that in the previous posts. I assumed that they did
inter-react. If not, you are correct, they either have too high an initial
velocity or he has a problem.
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Rune wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I like what I hear. Are you implying that my particle system
> may not be good enough for NASA to use?
>
It might interest you that NASA once had serious problems with exactly
this problem, but i don't know the precise details, i just heard it
somewhere.
'drift' of the results is a common problem with simulation of such systems
so no need to feel bad about it. ;-)
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
IsoWood include, radiosity tutorial, TransSkin and other
things on: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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Lutz-Peter Hooge wrote:
>
> I think, they would escape the system immediately if they had sufficient
> energy. I maybe wrong though.
>
Not necessarily, in a 3 body system they can collide with one of the
masses even if the speed is very high.
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
IsoWood include, radiosity tutorial, TransSkin and other
things on: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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In article <3C0E5F60.E0C56986@gmx.de>, chr### [at] gmxde says...
> Not necessarily, in a 3 body system they can collide with one of the
> masses even if the speed is very high.
Thats even possible with a two-body-system:
o---> <-O
:-)
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Lutz-Peter Hooge wrote:
>
> Thats even possible with a two-body-system:
>
> o---> <-O
>
Yes, but this is one special case, in a 3 body system there are various
situations that can lead to a collision.
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
IsoWood include, radiosity tutorial, TransSkin and other
things on: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
Post a reply to this message
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Sigh. If only all pov particle systems could do this, the world(s) would be a
better place... Reminds me of a program I had years ago that would simulate a
comet passing by the sun.
MJL
--
light_source{12*(y-z)rgb 2fade_distance 9fade_power 2area_light x,z,5,5}#macro A
(H,B,R,T)prism{0,1H+4,0u*9,9v*9,0#local I=1;#while(I<H)#local V=asc(substr(B,I,1
))-33;<div(V,10)mod(V,10)>#local I=I+1;#end pigment{red 1}rotate-<90,R>translate
-T}#end A(16"/.@VZno=<PLA89/"0,5*x)A(14",6;MWmhryXN3,"60<15,0,8>)camera{location
25*(y-z)look_at 0}A(8"6hiAG=6"-60,-10*x)box{-99(x+z)*99 pigment{rgb 1}} // MJL
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"Mark James Lewin" <m_j### [at] yahoocomau> wrote in message
news:3C0E8B64.1860CEB5@yahoo.com.au...
> Sigh. If only all pov particle systems could do this, the world(s) would
be a
> better place... Reminds me of a program I had years ago that would
simulate a
> comet passing by the sun.
>
> MJL
Back when I was going through university for engineering, we had to write a
program for a calculus course that calculated the movement of one planet
around another using some sort of series (I can't quite remember). I
thought I was pretty slick writing one in VB with a nice GUI, graphics and
laser printouts, I should've done it in POV.
-tgq
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"Rune" <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
news:3c0e4d03@news.povray.org...
> "Nekar Xenos" wrote:
> > Cool!
>
> Thanks!
>
Almost looks like Bueharia ...*hint, hint*
--
- Nekar
http://nekar_xenos.tripod.com/metanoia/
---
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Its hypnotic :-/ and I feel dissapointed(sp?) that after managing to
follow a particle - it ends - too soon :-(
Alf
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"Alf Peake" wrote:
> Its hypnotic :-/ and I feel dissapointed(sp?) that after
> managing to follow a particle - it ends - too soon :-(
Actually I feel/felt the same way, but I had to end the animation at some
point...
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
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"Nekar Xenos" wrote:
> Almost looks like Bueharia ...*hint, hint*
What is Bueharia?
Rune
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> In my particle system I've just implemented support for user-defined
> gravity. One use of that is to simulate the gravity of planets etc. That's
> what I've attempted in this animation. (The particles are not attracted to
> each other though.)
>
> Comments appreciated as always! :)
I love the way they just 'stick' :)
--
Rick
Kitty5 WebDesign - http://Kitty5.com
POV-Ray News & Resources - http://Povray.co.uk
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ummmm wow...... Does the one on the left have stronger gravity?
Rune <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
news:3c0e2e49@news.povray.org...
> In my particle system I've just implemented support for user-defined
> gravity. One use of that is to simulate the gravity of planets etc. That's
> what I've attempted in this animation. (The particles are not attracted to
> each other though.)
>
> Comments appreciated as always! :)
>
> Rune
> --
> 3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
> Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
> POV-Ray Users: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
> POV-Ray Webring: http://webring.povray.co.uk
>
>
>
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Data wrote:
>
> From what I remember, there's no dfinate way to predict particle (planet)
> motion around two larger bodies. The orbits of planets around a binary
> couple get very chaotic, very quickly. Now where'd I see that article?
Scientific American? A few months ago there was an artivle about
a solved n-body problem. Rune's bodies start in the way that could
be stable but soon it drifts off.
Markus
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Rune wrote:
> What is Bueharia?
Check out the "Binary Planets" thread in povray.off-topic
--
signature{
"Grey Knight"
contact{ email "gre### [at] yahoocom" }
site_of_week{ url "http://www.esite-host.com/~rocketmg/" }
}
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"Rune" <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
news:3c0f6363@news.povray.org...
> "Nekar Xenos" wrote:
> > Almost looks like Bueharia ...*hint, hint*
>
> What is Bueharia?
>
... and I thought Bueharia was the inspiration for this anim... ;)
--
- Nekar
http://nekar_xenos.tripod.com/metanoia/
---
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"s1631001" wrote:
> Rune wrote:
> > What is Bueharia?
>
> Check out the "Binary Planets" thread in povray.off-topic
Aha, got it now.
But all your messages with attachments have been cancelled, so I couldn't
see them.
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
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"Nekar Xenos" wrote:
> ... and I thought Bueharia was the inspiration for this anim... ;)
Not at all - if there's any resemblance, it's a pure coincidence...
I came up with it this way:
I had implemented user defined gravity, and was considering possible demo
animation ideas. Gravity is space seemed like an obvious idea and in order
to make it more interesting I used two planets instead of one...
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
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"Rick [Kitty5]" wrote:
> I love the way they just 'stick' :)
I considered making them bounce (high), but that would have been really
confusing.
I also considered making them bounce just a tiny amount, but that seemed to
cause unstable results, so I dropped that idea...
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
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"blessing" wrote:
> ummmm wow...... Does the one on the left have stronger gravity?
No, but it's closer to the camera. :)
BTW, you don't need to quote my entire message (including my sig even!), and
especially not *below* your own reply... Just quote the part that you're
actually replying to, or if you're replying to the whole message in general
you can leave out the quote entirely. And then place your own reply below
the quote, as if it is a conversation (which it is!).
Rune
--
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Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
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Rune wrote:
> All your messages with attachments have been cancelled, so I couldn't
> see them.
Yeah, I cancelled them after Ken pointed out that I was doing too much
binary posting. I can send you the relevant files if you want? Nekar can
probably supply you as well.
--
signature{
"Grey Knight"
contact{ email "gre### [at] yahoocom" }
site_of_week{ url "http://www.esite-host.com/~rocketmg/" }
}
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What if you made the large masses recoil from the impact? What would
that look like?
--
signature{
"Grey Knight"
contact{ email "gre### [at] yahoocom" }
site_of_week{ url "http://www.esite-host.com/~rocketmg/" }
}
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"s1631001" wrote:
> Yeah, I cancelled them after Ken pointed out that I
> was doing too much binary posting. I can send you
> the relevant files if you want? Nekar can probably
> supply you as well.
No thanks to both of you.
I have a slow and expensive connection so I don't like getting large files
per e-mail where I have no option of canceling the download if I should for
some reason want to do that.
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
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Rune <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
news:3c0f8cea$1@news.povray.org...
> "blessing" wrote:
> > ummmm wow...... Does the one on the left have stronger gravity?
>
> No, but it's closer to the camera. :)
>
> BTW, you don't need to quote my entire message (including my sig even!),
and
> especially not *below* your own reply... Just quote the part that you're
> actually replying to, or if you're replying to the whole message in
general
> you can leave out the quote entirely. And then place your own reply below
> the quote, as if it is a conversation (which it is!).
>
Yeah I know, I've found out that people don't like it when you reply above
the original message. ahhh well, I do try though.
Gary
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"Rune" <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
news:3c0fd5fc@news.povray.org...
> "s1631001" wrote:
> > Yeah, I cancelled them after Ken pointed out that I
> > was doing too much binary posting. I can send you
> > the relevant files if you want? Nekar can probably
> > supply you as well.
>
> No thanks to both of you.
>
> I have a slow and expensive connection so I don't like getting large files
> per e-mail where I have no option of canceling the download if I should for
> some reason want to do that.
>
I don't think Grey Knight will mind me doing this. I've uploaded the files. If
you have a download accelerator and you want to, you can download them from
here:
http://nekar_xenos.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/orbits1.zip
and here:
http://nekar_xenos.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/orbits2.zip
Grey Knight - if you want me to I'll take it off the site.
--
- Nekar
http://nekar_xenos.tripod.com/metanoia/
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.298 / Virus Database: 161 - Release Date: 2001/11/13
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"s1631001" wrote:
> What if you made the large masses recoil from the impact?
> What would that look like?
My particle system has no support for two-way interaction.
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
POV-Ray Users: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
POV-Ray Webring: http://webring.povray.co.uk
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"Nekar Xenos" wrote:
> I don't think Grey Knight will mind me doing this.
> I've uploaded the files.
Thanks, I'll have a look later. Please don't take them down right away. :)
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
POV-Ray Users: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
POV-Ray Webring: http://webring.povray.co.uk
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"Markus Becker" <bec### [at] aicossde> wrote in message
news:3C0F6782.876491D3@aicoss.de...
> Data wrote:
> >
> > From what I remember, there's no dfinate way to predict particle
(planet)
> > motion around two larger bodies. The orbits of planets around a binary
> > couple get very chaotic, very quickly. Now where'd I see that article?
>
> Scientific American? A few months ago there was an artivle about
> a solved n-body problem. Rune's bodies start in the way that could
> be stable but soon it drifts off.
>
I'm not sure. I think it may have been a book from Time.
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"Nekar Xenos" wrote:
> I've uploaded the files.
Thanks, I've got them now. :)
I see that they're made with POV-Ray, so why they weren't posted to the
respective correct groups in the first place is beyond me...
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Nov 5)
POV-Ray Users: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
POV-Ray Webring: http://webring.povray.co.uk
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Rune wrote:
>
> I see that they're made with POV-Ray, so why they weren't posted to the
> respective correct groups in the first place is beyond me...
Because I'm an idiot who didn't know what he was doing. I think that
about sums it up...
--
signature{
"Grey Knight"
contact{ email "gre### [at] yahoocom" }
site_of_week{ url "http://enphilistor.users4.50megs.com/" }
}
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