Hi,

I don't know how anybody else feels about this, but I think you would get a
better response if you posted your work at staged intervals, say one a day,
instead of dumping them all in the group.

personally I am not to fussed, but if better feedback is what you are after,
then some restraint should be exercised.

--
Rick
Kitty5 WebDesign - http://www.kitty5.com
TEL - +44 (01625) 266358 : FAX +44 (01625) 611913

PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x55116DCC

Post a reply to this message

Rick [Kitty5] wrote in message <39a7bce0@news.povray.org>...
>Hi,
>
>I don't know how anybody else feels about this, but I think you would get a
>better response if you posted your work at staged intervals, say one a day,
>instead of dumping them all in the group.

This news server (news.povray.org) seems to have pretty deep pockets. I am
currently downloading the entire contents of povray.binaries.images and I
noted that the earliest post is from about July 1998. So even if I did
release my material in staged intervals it would all still be available for
download at some point, leaving the individual browser the option of
downloading in staged intervals. Remember, no one is forcing you to download
these images.

>
>personally I am not to fussed, but if better feedback is what you are
after,
>then some restraint should be exercised.

Feedback is not required. It is up the individual whether or not to reply.
Again, no one is being forced.

>
>--
>Rick
>Kitty5 WebDesign - http://www.kitty5.com
>TEL - +44 (01625) 266358 : FAX +44 (01625) 611913
>
>PGP Public Key
>http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x55116DCC
>
>

Post a reply to this message

In article <39a7e32d@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:

> This news server (news.povray.org) seems to have pretty deep pockets. 
> I am currently downloading the entire contents of 
> povray.binaries.images and I noted that the earliest post is from 
> about July 1998. So even if I did release my material in staged 
> intervals it would all still be available for download at some point, 
> leaving the individual browser the option of downloading in staged 
> intervals. Remember, no one is forcing you to download these images.

Actually, the server has limited space available...while most of the 
groups do not automatically expire messages(povray.off-topic is an 
exception), some of the older posts in a couple groups(including this 
one) have had to be manually "expired" to free up space. They are 
running out of room...
There are more details in the povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions 
group, specifically the messages "Welcome To the POV-Ray News Groups" 
and "News Server Acceptable Use Policy".


> Feedback is not required. It is up the individual whether or not to 
> reply.

If you are not after comments on your work, what *do* you want?


> Again, no one is being forced.

Yes, but it will push older animations out...it might have been a better 
idea to put the animations on a web page and post announcements to 
povray.animations. Also, downloads are usually faster from web 
pages...the encoding to place files in these groups increases the size.
The same goes for the povray.binaries.images group...it might have been 
a better idea to put the high-quality images on a web page, and post 
links with lower-resolution preview images. The subject has been 
discussed in depth before, the consensus seems to be that images larger 
than about 200-300K or large groups of images would be better on a web 
page. I don't think anyone would mind a large animation, large files are 
kind of expected in this group :-), but the same rule for large numbers 
of posts still applies.

-- 
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/

<><

Post a reply to this message

Chris Huff wrote in message ...
>In article <39a7e32d@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:
>
>> This news server (news.povray.org) seems to have pretty deep pockets.
>> I am currently downloading the entire contents of
>> povray.binaries.images and I noted that the earliest post is from
>> about July 1998. So even if I did release my material in staged
>> intervals it would all still be available for download at some point,
>> leaving the individual browser the option of downloading in staged
>> intervals. Remember, no one is forcing you to download these images.
>
>Actually, the server has limited space available...while most of the

Blimey! It's a very deep limited then!

>groups do not automatically expire messages(povray.off-topic is an
>exception), some of the older posts in a couple groups(including this
>one) have had to be manually "expired" to free up space. They are
>running out of room...
>There are more details in the povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions
>group, specifically the messages "Welcome To the POV-Ray News Groups"
>and "News Server Acceptable Use Policy".
>
>
>> Feedback is not required. It is up the individual whether or not to
>> reply.
>
>If you are not after comments on your work, what *do* you want?

Just a place to exhibit my work.

>
>
>> Again, no one is being forced.
>
>Yes, but it will push older animations out...it might have been a better
>idea to put the animations on a web page and post announcements to
>povray.animations. Also, downloads are usually faster from web

Not enough space on my website!

>pages...the encoding to place files in these groups increases the size.

True, but this is how I prefer to exhibit my material.

>The same goes for the povray.binaries.images group...it might have been
>a better idea to put the high-quality images on a web page, and post
>links with lower-resolution preview images. The subject has been
>discussed in depth before, the consensus seems to be that images larger
>than about 200-300K or large groups of images would be better on a web

I don't think many of my pieces went over that - animated or not.

>page. I don't think anyone would mind a large animation, large files are
>kind of expected in this group :-), but the same rule for large numbers
>of posts still applies.
>
>--
>Christopher James Huff
>Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
>TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
>
><><

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:34:01 +0100, IMBJR wrote...
> >I don't know how anybody else feels about this, but I think you would get a
> >better response if you posted your work at staged intervals, say one a day,
> >instead of dumping them all in the group.
>
> This news server (news.povray.org) seems to have pretty deep pockets. I am
> currently downloading the entire contents of povray.binaries.images and I
> noted that the earliest post is from about July 1998. So even if I did
> release my material in staged intervals it would all still be available for
> download at some point, leaving the individual browser the option of
> downloading in staged intervals. Remember, no one is forcing you to download
> these images.

Could you please remember that there are people out there in the big wide 
world who only have modem access, and who have to pay their online phone 
charges on a per minute basis.

Personally for this amount of work, I would find a set of links to a 
webpage holding the animations preferable.

I'm not trying to be insulting, honest...  It's just that in order for me 
to grab the rest of my news today in less than two hours (OK, so that's 
an exaggeration, sue me) I had to stop my download and delete all of the 
headers for your animations.

Bye for now,
     Jamie.

Post a reply to this message

Jamie Davison wrote in message ...
>On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:34:01 +0100, IMBJR wrote...
>> >I don't know how anybody else feels about this, but I think you would
get a
>> >better response if you posted your work at staged intervals, say one a
day,
>> >instead of dumping them all in the group.
>>
>> This news server (news.povray.org) seems to have pretty deep pockets. I
am
>> currently downloading the entire contents of povray.binaries.images and I
>> noted that the earliest post is from about July 1998. So even if I did
>> release my material in staged intervals it would all still be available
for
>> download at some point, leaving the individual browser the option of
>> downloading in staged intervals. Remember, no one is forcing you to
download
>> these images.
>
>Could you please remember that there are people out there in the big wide
>world who only have modem access, and who have to pay their online phone
>charges on a per minute basis.

Yes I do remember, I am one of them and I do not count myself as rich. If
you're dedicated to something you make time and allowance for it. Remember:
no one is asking you to download the posts.

>
>Personally for this amount of work, I would find a set of links to a
>webpage holding the animations preferable.

True, but I prefer the Usenet aproach to exhibition. I treat my website as
an archive of my best work.

>
>I'm not trying to be insulting, honest...  It's just that in order for me
>to grab the rest of my news today in less than two hours (OK, so that's
>an exaggeration, sue me) I had to stop my download and delete all of the
>headers for your animations.

Fair enough, but it's not exactly the hardest thing to do to "diet" one's
news consumption. Some groups I subscribe to have very large posts in them,
but I skip past them. Why do people not take the time to ensure they are not
going to excede whatever time/money budget they have allowed themselves? All
it takes is a quick log-on, grab all the available headers, log-off, mark th
e ones suitable for download, log back on, and download said headers. I'm
sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but it's a very simple thing to do.
If you don't want to look, don't look.

>
>Bye for now,

Fair well!

>     Jamie.
>

Post a reply to this message

In article <39a83b6d@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:

> True, but I prefer the Usenet aproach to exhibition. I treat my 
> website as an archive of my best work.

This isn't Usenet. :-)
This news server (news.povray.org) is a private server. With luck, 
everything posted to it is archived somewhere. It is a matter of 
politeness to the other people using this server to follow these 
guidelines...
BTW, people usually post their best work to these groups, and include a 
link to a web page with the rest of it.

-- 
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/

<><

Post a reply to this message

Chris Huff wrote in message ...
>In article <39a83b6d@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:
>
>> True, but I prefer the Usenet aproach to exhibition. I treat my
>> website as an archive of my best work.
>
>This isn't Usenet. :-)

Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.

>This news server (news.povray.org) is a private server. With luck,

It's not private, you don't even need an account to access it. It is a
public news server that is a part of Usenet.

>everything posted to it is archived somewhere. It is a matter of
>politeness to the other people using this server to follow these
>guidelines...

I must admit I was not aware of such guidelines. Please post them for me so
I know what they are instead of just hearing of them second-hand. Not that I
don't trust you, it's just a matter of interpretation.

>BTW, people usually post their best work to these groups, and include a

Well, not to cast myself as some sort of Lord of POV, if that was the case
then there's a lot of learning to be done by the good people who post here.
Most of it appears to be experiments that people are trying out or
Works-in-Progress - neither are what I would describe as best work.

>link to a web page with the rest of it.

I must admit I do not read the text that comes with binaries, well not today
at any rate as I was attempting to download a considerable quantity of the
posts and could not read each one, only view its attachment.


>
>--
>Christopher James Huff
>Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
>TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
>
><><

Post a reply to this message

In article <39a846ee@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:

> Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.

No, it isn't. That just makes it a news server, it is not part of the 
Usenet network.


> It's not private, you don't even need an account to access it. It is a
> public news server that is a part of Usenet.

It *IS* private, and is *NOT* part of Usenet. Look at your headers:

X-Copyright: This copyrighted article comes from a private news server 
and may NOT be distributed on USENET or other news servers.

This is placed on every article posted here. The message "Welcome To the 
POV-Ray News Groups" deals with this, specifically the section titled 
"News Server Acceptable Use Policy". There is also a message with that 
same title, "News Server Acceptable Use Policy", which has more 
information. One relevant quote from that post:
"We also wish to remind you that this is a privately owned news server 
and as such you are considered an invited guest."


> I must admit I was not aware of such guidelines. Please post them for 
> me so I know what they are instead of just hearing of them 
> second-hand. Not that I don't trust you, it's just a matter of 
> interpretation.

Just read the messages in povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions. 
They cover many of these issues.


> Well, not to cast myself as some sort of Lord of POV, if that was the 
> case then there's a lot of learning to be done by the good people who 
> post here.
> Most of it appears to be experiments that people are trying out or
> Works-in-Progress - neither are what I would describe as best work.

Hmm, I guess I didn't express myself very clearly, sorry...
What I meant was: people don't typically post every thing they render, 
and pick out the best images for their web site. When they post works in 
progress or experiments, they do so for feedback: comments, suggestions, 
etc. If they have a large number of images, they usually put up a 
gallery, or just upload the images somewhere and provide direct links to 
them.


> I must admit I do not read the text that comes with binaries, well 
> not today at any rate as I was attempting to download a considerable 
> quantity of the posts and could not read each one, only view its 
> attachment.

If you are downloading all the articles, I can understand why you don't 
read all of them. :-)

-- 
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/

<><

Post a reply to this message

In article <39a81986@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:

> Just a place to exhibit my work.

But for what reason do you want to exhibit your work, if not to hear 
(well, read) people's comments on it?


> Not enough space on my website!

That *is* a problem...but it shouldn't be too difficult to get some 
space on some free provider.


> True, but this is how I prefer to exhibit my material.

Why? Just wondering...


> I don't think many of my pieces went over that - animated or not.

That may be so, but you have to admit, the sheer number of images was a 
bit overwhelming. :-)

-- 
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/

<><

Post a reply to this message

IMBJR wrote:
> 
> Chris Huff wrote in message ...
> >In article <39a83b6d@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:
> >
> >> True, but I prefer the Usenet aproach to exhibition. I treat my
> >> website as an archive of my best work.
> >
> >This isn't Usenet. :-)
> 
> Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.
> 
> >This news server (news.povray.org) is a private server. With luck,
> 
> It's not private, you don't even need an account to access it. It is a
> public news server that is a part of Usenet.

I can assure you that both Chris H. and I are intimately familiar with
this news server and I can say without reservation that it is in no
way associated with USENET in any way, shape, or form. It is privately
funded, owned, and operated by a member for the POV-Team who will not
under any circumstances allow it to be connected to USENET by any means
possible. This how they manage to keep news-bots and spammers out of
here. You will notice, if you take the time to look, that the majority
of people that post here do so with their real names and e-mail addresses
because they know that it is a private server that is not used as a
collection point for spammers and address collectors.

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

Post a reply to this message

Chris Huff wrote in message ...
>In article <39a81986@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:
>
>> Just a place to exhibit my work.
>
>But for what reason do you want to exhibit your work, if not to hear
>(well, read) people's comments on it?

This may sound strange, but that's not what I do this for. I do it to
express myself. What others make of it is up to them.

>
>
>> Not enough space on my website!
>
>That *is* a problem...but it shouldn't be too difficult to get some
>space on some free provider.

It is easy, and I do have some, but it is taken up with other material.
However, as I have stated before I prefer Usenet for exhibition.

>
>
>> True, but this is how I prefer to exhibit my material.
>
>Why? Just wondering...

The impermanence of the medium. Websites can get too static. I know mine
does as it only gets updated once a quarter - and that's only with the stuff
I deem good enough.

>
>
>> I don't think many of my pieces went over that - animated or not.
>
>That may be so, but you have to admit, the sheer number of images was a
>bit overwhelming. :-)

I've posted more in other groups with less reaction. I suppose it is what
each group is used to.

>
>--
>Christopher James Huff
>Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
>TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
>
><><

Post a reply to this message

Ken wrote in message <39A896A3.3827E31D@pacbell.net>...
>
>
>IMBJR wrote:
>>
>> Chris Huff wrote in message ...
>> >In article <39a83b6d@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:
>> >
>> >> True, but I prefer the Usenet aproach to exhibition. I treat my
>> >> website as an archive of my best work.
>> >
>> >This isn't Usenet. :-)
>>
>> Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.
>>
>> >This news server (news.povray.org) is a private server. With luck,
>>
>> It's not private, you don't even need an account to access it. It is a
>> public news server that is a part of Usenet.
>
>I can assure you that both Chris H. and I are intimately familiar with
>this news server and I can say without reservation that it is in no
>way associated with USENET in any way, shape, or form. It is privately
>funded, owned, and operated by a member for the POV-Team who will not
>under any circumstances allow it to be connected to USENET by any means
>possible. This how they manage to keep news-bots and spammers out of
>here. You will notice, if you take the time to look, that the majority

But if I can connect to this server, what stops them? They could flood the
groups with spam in a trice. It would be a full time job making sure nothing
like that gets through. See my reply to Chris Huff on the subject of whether
or not this Usenet.

>of people that post here do so with their real names and e-mail addresses
>because they know that it is a private server that is not used as a
>collection point for spammers and address collectors.

I prefer a pseudonym, though you will find my e-mail address is quite valid.

I think it is quite possible that spammers are in fact harvesting e-mail
addresses from these groups. The POV server will only see someone accessing
the headers like the rest of us do. I think it is naive of you to believe
you are safe from spam; if the spammers just got one sniff of this server
they would have a field day.

>
>--
>Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
>http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

Post a reply to this message

Chris Huff wrote in message ...
>In article <39a846ee@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:
>
>> Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.
>
>No, it isn't. That just makes it a news server, it is not part of the
>Usenet network.

The only reason I think you can hold on to that view is that this news
server has a set of pretty unique newsgroups on it. Plus I believe the POV
news admin people I have trouble in the past from keeping this server
isolated; rogue duplicates of the groups have appeared out in the "wild".
I'm sure that with a little mucking about, I could cross-post this message
to any other non-POV news groups. You are only seperated by a very thin
membrane. Is it this isolationist attitude that explains the reaction I'm
getting? A reaction that has so far reduced one person to forge my identity
and post a "Confession" to alt.binaries.slack. Needless to say, that
person's
ISP recieved a complaint.

>
>
>> It's not private, you don't even need an account to access it. It is a
>> public news server that is a part of Usenet.
>
>It *IS* private, and is *NOT* part of Usenet. Look at your headers:

Here is part of what I think you are refering to:

X-Authenticated-User: chuff
X-No-Archive: Yes
X-Copyright: This copyrighted article comes from a private news server and
may NOT be distributed on USENET or other news servers.
X-POV-Header: --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Only the first line is of a type I do not have in my headers in posts to
these groups. I assume some prior arrangement with the POV news admin team
lets you do that - or have you inserted it yourself for reasons of
demarcation? I cannot see how they make this not part of Usenet in the
general sense.

>
>X-Copyright: This copyrighted article comes from a private news server
>and may NOT be distributed on USENET or other news servers.
>
>This is placed on every article posted here. The message "Welcome To the

Yeah! I've got those too. Any other news servers like to insert other types
of header, just like regular Usenet.

>POV-Ray News Groups" deals with this, specifically the section titled
>"News Server Acceptable Use Policy". There is also a message with that
>same title, "News Server Acceptable Use Policy", which has more
>information. One relevant quote from that post:
>"We also wish to remind you that this is a privately owned news server
>and as such you are considered an invited guest."

Yes, it is privately owned (like virtually all news servers: commercially,
academically, or even as a hobby) - it is not private though. It still forms
part of the general usenet community.

>
>
>> I must admit I was not aware of such guidelines. Please post them for
>> me so I know what they are instead of just hearing of them
>> second-hand. Not that I don't trust you, it's just a matter of
>> interpretation.
>
>Just read the messages in povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions.
>They cover many of these issues.

Cheers.

>
>
>> Well, not to cast myself as some sort of Lord of POV, if that was the
>> case then there's a lot of learning to be done by the good people who
>> post here.
>> Most of it appears to be experiments that people are trying out or
>> Works-in-Progress - neither are what I would describe as best work.
>
>Hmm, I guess I didn't express myself very clearly, sorry...

I am too. I just realised I'm posting this to the animations group when I
was thinking of the stills group.

>What I meant was: people don't typically post every thing they render,
>and pick out the best images for their web site. When they post works in
>progress or experiments, they do so for feedback: comments, suggestions,
>etc. If they have a large number of images, they usually put up a
>gallery, or just upload the images somewhere and provide direct links to
>them.

I didn't post everything I have rendered. There are pieces I have that I did
not think fit for the group - though they have been posted on other groups
previousy.
>
>
>> I must admit I do not read the text that comes with binaries, well
>> not today at any rate as I was attempting to download a considerable
>> quantity of the posts and could not read each one, only view its
>> attachment.
>
>If you are downloading all the articles, I can understand why you don't
>read all of them. :-)

There were so many my image viewer choked!

>
>--
>Christopher James Huff
>Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
>TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
>
><><

Post a reply to this message

> Remember, no one is forcing you to download
> these images.

they are when quite a number of us on modem connections use outlook express
to auto download all new posts from a selection of groups!


> Feedback is not required. It is up the individual whether or not to reply.
> Again, no one is being forced.

then why bother posting, do a web site instead! - the whole idea of these
ng's is discussion and mutual support

Rick

Post a reply to this message

Rick [Kitty5] wrote in message <39a90660@news.povray.org>...
>> Remember, no one is forcing you to download
>> these images.
>
>they are when quite a number of us on modem connections use outlook express
>to auto download all new posts from a selection of groups!

My advice is never auto-download, you never know what you will pick up.

>
>
>> Feedback is not required. It is up the individual whether or not to
reply.
>> Again, no one is being forced.
>
>then why bother posting, do a web site instead! - the whole idea of these
>ng's is discussion and mutual support

Then why is it a binaries newsgroup? That's for images.

>
>Rick
>
>

Post a reply to this message

In article <39a8dbd5@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:

> The only reason I think you can hold on to that view is that this 
> news server has a set of pretty unique newsgroups on it.

No, the administration can "hold on to that view" because it is the 
truth.


> Plus I believe the POV news admin people I have trouble in the past 
> from keeping this server isolated; rogue duplicates of the groups 
> have appeared out in the "wild".

Some have stolen the material on this server and placed it on Usenet 
servers, but that is not legal, and does not make this server public or 
a part of Usenet.


> I'm sure that with a little mucking about, I could cross-post this 
> message to any other non-POV news groups. You are only seperated by a 
> very thin membrane.

You might be able to post to groups on a Usenet server and povray.org, 
but it won't work right, because povray.org is not part of Usenet.


> Is it this isolationist attitude that explains the reaction I'm 
> getting?

Not all news groups are part of Usenet. Usenet is a specific network and 
heirarchy of newsgroups, povray.org is completely independant of Usenet. 
It is not due to any isolationist attitude, it is just because becoming 
part of Usenet would be too much trouble and would have little or no 
gain. The groups on this server are completely separate.

Just believe me: I am not misleading you, and I am not misinformed. This 
server(news.povray.org) is *not* part of Usenet, and is *not* a public 
server. It is a private server intended for the support of POV-Ray 
users. You are not required to have a password in order to access most 
of the groups, but that does not make it a public server or part of 
Usenet. If these groups appear on a Usenet server, they are either an 
independant set of groups, or they are illegally using material from 
news.povray.org.


> Only the first line is of a type I do not have in my headers in posts 
> to these groups. I assume some prior arrangement with the POV news 
> admin team lets you do that - or have you inserted it yourself for 
> reasons of demarcation? I cannot see how they make this not part of 
> Usenet in the general sense.

I was referring specifically to the X-Copyright header.
The reason for the X-Authenticated-User header in my messages is that I 
am a member of the POV-Ray TAG, and an authenticated user of this 
server, which means I have a password and can access some of the private 
groups devoted to the TAG and POV-Team. For more information, read the 
messages in povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions and visit 
http://tag.povray.org/.


> Yeah! I've got those too. Any other news servers like to insert other 
> types of header, just like regular Usenet.

But this isn't Usenet!


> Yes, it is privately owned (like virtually all news servers: 
> commercially, academically, or even as a hobby) - it is not private 
> though. It still forms part of the general usenet community.

It is a privately owned private server with private groups which is not 
associated with Usenet in any way, except they both use the same 
protocol.


> I didn't post everything I have rendered. There are pieces I have 
> that I did not think fit for the group - though they have been posted 
> on other groups previousy.

I understand that, but most people don't post large numbers of images at 
once. It is understandable that people aren't used to it...

-- 
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/

<><

Post a reply to this message

In article <39a92035@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:

> My advice is never auto-download, you never know what you will pick up.

Telling people do things *your* way just so you can post what you want 
seems a little...arrogant. Sorry.


> Then why is it a binaries newsgroup? That's for images.

It is a binaries newsgroup so people can post images. People post images 
so they can recieve help, show certain techniques they have developed, 
occasionally demonstrate bug reports, or show their work. Again quoting 
from two of the official announcements in p.a.f-a-q:

"*Images Group
  If you want opinions on an image you are working on we have a binaries
image group where you can post an image for critique and get suggestions
from other POV-Ray users. This is one of our most popular groups.
[please read the announcement on posting guidelines for this group]"

and:

"First we would like to remind all of our visitors that this news
server exists first and foremost to offer online support for the
users of POV-Ray. We do this by allowing peer support between users
of the program,  sometimes through direct support from POV-Team
members themselves, or by way of the POV-Ray Technical Assistance
Group. Any other use of this news server is secondary to this goal."

-- 
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/

<><

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:44:54 -0500, Chris Huff <chr### [at] maccom>
wrote:

>In article <39a92035@news.povray.org>, "IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:
>
>> My advice is never auto-download, you never know what you will pick up.
>
>Telling people do things *your* way just so you can post what you want 
>seems a little...arrogant. Sorry.

I see you are unfamilar with the difference between "advice" (which is
what I gave) and "telling people to do things *your* way" (which is an
order). If I seem to wish to influence people's use of this service,
it is merely to help them with their time/money budgets; and if this
group is not about giving advice and/or help (as someone else stated
it was) then smack my legs for giving it.

>
>
>> Then why is it a binaries newsgroup? That's for images.
>
>It is a binaries newsgroup so people can post images. People post images 
>so they can recieve help, show certain techniques they have developed, 

Mmm, there's that help ethos I was guilty of transgressing up above.

>occasionally demonstrate bug reports, or show their work. Again quoting 
>from two of the official announcements in p.a.f-a-q:
>
>"*Images Group
>  If you want opinions on an image you are working on we have a binaries
>image group where you can post an image for critique and get suggestions
>from other POV-Ray users. This is one of our most popular groups.
>[please read the announcement on posting guidelines for this group]"

Mmm, a binaries groups with extensions! Excellent, though of course
not stated as manditory for the sender or receiver.

>
>and:
>
>"First we would like to remind all of our visitors that this news
>server exists first and foremost to offer online support for the
>users of POV-Ray. We do this by allowing peer support between users
>of the program,  sometimes through direct support from POV-Team
>members themselves, or by way of the POV-Ray Technical Assistance
>Group. Any other use of this news server is secondary to this goal."

Well, it seems I can stand somewhat corrected as to the intent of the
server. It's just that general experience of binaries groups seems to
point to them being for exhibition, and that's the way I've always
used them. Well, people, have at my work if you must!

----------------------------------------------------
Symmetry is wrong:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

IMBJR wrote:
> Chris wrote:
>>     That *is* a problem...but it shouldn't be too difficult to get
>>     some space on some free provider.
>  It is easy, and I do have some, but it is taken up with other
>  material. However, as I have stated before I prefer Usenet
>  for exhibition.
>>> Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.

This ain't the usenet, it's not like the National Park Service or Central
Park.   It's more like a sheltered picnic table on a church's property, which is
free for public use on weekdays, within certain guidelines. You come in and say
you want to store a few cases of canned goods on it, because your pantry is
full.  Your main justification is that you can get away with it.  How incredibly
selfish.  You point to the lack of a lock on the door as justification, making
the church consider getting a lock.

> Yes, it is privately owned (like virtually all news servers: commercially,
> academically, or even as a hobby) - it is not private though. It still forms
> part of the general usenet community.

A picnic table with no lock means it's Central Park, right ?

Do private servers---from usenet ones like Deja.com to non-usenet ones like
news.povray.org--- have the right to decide the terms of the public's free use
of their picnic tables?

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:27:06 -0400, "Greg M. Johnson"
<gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:

>IMBJR wrote:
>> Chris wrote:
>>>     That *is* a problem...but it shouldn't be too difficult to get
>>>     some space on some free provider.
>>  It is easy, and I do have some, but it is taken up with other
>>  material. However, as I have stated before I prefer Usenet
>>  for exhibition.
>>>> Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.
>
>This ain't the usenet, it's not like the National Park Service or Central
>Park.   It's more like a sheltered picnic table on a church's property, which is

Good, because the NPS seems to have little idea on how to conserve
what it's got (way too much traffic, unlike my little spill) and
Central Park ... has it still got a crime problem, or has Zero
Tolerance stamped it out? If this place had Zero Tolerance, then I
would not be able to continue this discussion.

>free for public use on weekdays, within certain guidelines. You come in and say
>you want to store a few cases of canned goods on it, because your pantry is

I never treat Usenet as storage, just a pavement where I can prop up
my work for a moment and let the good people going by have a look at
it. Some of them even have constructive comments on the material they
see. As for canned goods, well maybe they are, but they did start out
fresh in the field.

>full.  Your main justification is that you can get away with it.  How incredibly

Bizarre! I don't recall saying that at all. If such "flooding" is a
problem, then why hasn't the hierarchy come swooping down on me,
either to ask me to cancel my posts (which I notice they, or their
proxies, have asked some else to do), or just delete them themselves
with a warning not to do it again or a complete lock-out. They seem to
have no problem with the quantity. As I have said before, I have
posted more than I did here in other places, and although there was
the odd grumble, nothing happened like it has here, where the knives
have come out and one person even decided to post a forgery of myself
in my stomping ground (alt.binaries.slack). You really should not be
so fragile about this.

>selfish.  You point to the lack of a lock on the door as justification, making
>the church consider getting a lock.

Blimey! You would seriously retreat into some netherworld of closed
doors and secret passwords just because the majority of Usenet users
(or at least the ones I have encountered) do not think as you do? And
by the way, as I have said before, this Church (strange you should
liken it to one, suggesting that you are all somehow Special and
Saved) does have very deep vaults. I've seen some quite old posts here
that indicate that the place can well afford a little tide now and
again - especially if, as someone suggested, the posts here are all
archived for what I assume is perusal elsewhere.

>
>> Yes, it is privately owned (like virtually all news servers: commercially,
>> academically, or even as a hobby) - it is not private though. It still forms
>> part of the general usenet community.
>
>A picnic table with no lock means it's Central Park, right ?

You have thrown me. First you say this is not Central Park, and now
you are suggesting it is? Please clarify.

>
>Do private servers---from usenet ones like Deja.com to non-usenet ones like
>news.povray.org--- have the right to decide the terms of the public's free use
>of their picnic tables?
>
They do have the right, but as I have stated above, I have not had my
collar felt by the hierarchy. So I can assume one of the following:

1. No such restrictions apply.

2. Some have complained to the hierarchy and they were told to calm
it.

3. The hierarchy is asleep. A dangerous position for yourself: as I
have previously stated elsewhere, this place could very easily become
Spammer Armageddon*. If you suggest this place is self-policed then
that is merely handing out wooden guns to the troops - no one has the
real power to pull the plug on any abuser - only the Server Admin.

* Since the place is remarkably clean of Spam, I think the hierarchy
is not asleep - either that or the spammers have not turned in this
direction yet. Prey in your Church they do not.

PS. If you think space is a premium here then we are wasting it by
this gainsaying, especially since this is a binaries group and not a
place of talk (though I admit some do value the feedback here). If you
reply to this message in this forum then I don't think I will be able
to take you seriously from then on - stick to your principles and
reply via e-mail. Of course if you do reply here, then so shall I as I
have no qualms on that score.


----------------------------------------------------
Symmetry is wrong:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

> >If you are not after comments on your work, what *do* you want?
>
> Just a place to exhibit my work.

If this is all you want you can submit to my site the "POV Ray Study
Gallery" I have a Gallery Page that currently does not have a Animation
section, but I can add one easily. As far as space goes, my site is hosted
by Crosswinds. They state that I have unlimited webspace and I really want
to test that!     ;)



C.J. - POV User
POV Ray Study Gallery
www.crosswinds.net/~povstudy

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:47:42 -0700, "C.J."
<hou### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

>> >If you are not after comments on your work, what *do* you want?
>>
>> Just a place to exhibit my work.
>
>If this is all you want you can submit to my site the "POV Ray Study
>Gallery" I have a Gallery Page that currently does not have a Animation
>section, but I can add one easily. As far as space goes, my site is hosted
>by Crosswinds. They state that I have unlimited webspace and I really want
>to test that!     ;)

I shall take that into consideration. Please e-mail me details.

>
>
>
>C.J. - POV User
>POV Ray Study Gallery
>www.crosswinds.net/~povstudy
>
>

----------------------------------------------------
Symmetry is wrong:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

IMBJR wrote:
>They do have the right, but as I have stated above, I have not had my
>collar felt by the hierarchy. So I can assume one of the following:

It's more like the head trustee or elder came out to the kids blaring their stereos
and storing canned goods on the picnic table and got rebuffed by the kids saying,
"Aw, I can do what I want."  This is how I paint your interaction with Chris Huff.

I took very little pause at your flood of postings but didn't think too much of it
until I saw your attitude, thinking this was just like the usenet.  Plus the REAL
usenet posting encouraging people to tear down this group.  Pardon me not liking that
attitude.

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:15:17 -0400, "Greg M. Johnson"
<gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:

>IMBJR wrote:
>>They do have the right, but as I have stated above, I have not had my
>>collar felt by the hierarchy. So I can assume one of the following:
>
>It's more like the head trustee or elder came out to the kids blaring their stereos
>and storing canned goods on the picnic table and got rebuffed by the kids saying,
>"Aw, I can do what I want."  This is how I paint your interaction with Chris Huff.

Is Chris Huff an elder? If he is then he should speak up and proclaim
it. There's no pointing trying to slap a wrist if you don't have the
pandy-bat. Plus - and I may be wrong on this one, so correct me if I
am - I have yet to see anything that says "Thou Shalt Not Flood the
POV newserver". In fact Ken in povray.off-topic stated:

"Your material was on topic and in no way in violation of this news
servers policies."

>
>I took very little pause at your flood of postings but didn't think too much of it
>until I saw your attitude, thinking this was just like the usenet.  Plus the REAL

Well, this may not be like real Usenet, but if this is were a foreign
country, then you would be losing valuable tourist-dollars through
displaying of isolationist viewpoints. You would never get new-blood
to come and live and work here.

>usenet posting encouraging people to tear down this group.  Pardon me not liking that
>attitude.

I retracted that statement as being very foolish. However, that did
not stop someone from posting a forgery of myself to
alt.binaries.slack - a fine example of the attitude I found in some of
the replies to my posts. I cerntainly will not be stooping so low and
have been busy tracking that person down.


----------------------------------------------------
Symmetry is wrong:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

In article <me8lqs4e1kvbn0d7163hdtlqstljujd77v@4ax.com>, IMBJR 
<imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:

> Is Chris Huff an elder? If he is then he should speak up and proclaim
> it. There's no pointing trying to slap a wrist if you don't have the
> pandy-bat.

I *have* said before that I am a member of the TAG and pointed you to 
the TAG web site(it is even included in my signature). I have also 
pointed to the official documents in 
povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions several times.
Since you seem not to have read those, I will quote the relevant portion:

"TAG members are not members of the POV-Team. But they are, however, an 
official conduit between us and the outside world. They have direct 
access to all members of the POV-Team. They have the right to speak on 
our behalf on the POV news server and on any official mailing lists 
that we set up for this purpose. Not everything they say will be 
official ; only when they sign it as such. They can still act 
'themselves' and have their own opinions at all other times."

I suppose this makes me an "elder", if not part of the "heirarchy".


> Plus - and I may be wrong on this one, so correct me if I am - I have 
> yet to see anything that says "Thou Shalt Not Flood the POV 
> newserver".

People asked you to not flood with large numbers of posts. That should 
have been enough.
Since the initial postings, you have done pretty well in this. :-)


> In fact Ken in povray.off-topic stated:
> "Your material was on topic and in no way in violation of this news
> servers policies."

Your posts were not off-topic or directly against any official rules. In 
fact, some of them seemed quite imaginative, creative, and well done, 
though somewhat lacking in explanation. However, the way you posted them 
doesn't fit with the customs that the users of this server have become 
used to. There have been in-depth discussions in the past about the best 
way to do things, what is considered acceptable, and what is considered 
abuse. While not all of these are written, official rules, it is simply 
polite to not insist on going against them.


> Well, this may not be like real Usenet, but if this is were a foreign
> country, then you would be losing valuable tourist-dollars through
> displaying of isolationist viewpoints. You would never get new-blood
> to come and live and work here.

"Isolationist" is about as far from an accurate description of this 
server as you can get! The people here just don't take well to 
continued, intentional rudeness. We are very open and helpful to new 
users or visitors. Your initial posting would have been regarded as a 
mistake due to ignorance of how things on these groups are usually done 
and it would have been forgiven and forgotten immediately, even by those 
to whom it caused problems. However, your actions and postings since 
then don't encourage good-will toward you. If you take the time to see 
"how things are done" here and don't go against that, you will find a 
very friendly and helpful community. It is *not* that we want everyone 
to be identical and discourage individuality, it is just that we have 
found a middle ground that everyone can live with.

-- 
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/

<><

Post a reply to this message

the main (or real) problem as i see it is this:  the povray community
that frequents these newsgroups is as tightly knit as it can get over
the internet.  since you don't seem to like church, i'll use a swimming
pool as an analogy.  as new people have come in, they have all waded in,
politely testing the water to see not only what the written rules are
here but the unwritten as well.  they have all made the transition from
newbie in the newsgroups to regular user without much, if any, problem. 
so when you showed up one day (presumably without lurking for long) and
did a canon ball right where everyone was relaxing, people didn't
appreciate it.  these groups are here for community support.  personal
web pages are for showing off.  it is easy to get a ton of free space on
the web.  my brother has twelve geocities accounts, so lack of web space
is a pretty lame excuse to flood the newsgroups here.  i don't mean to
come off as condescending, so don't get me wrong.  we just do things
different from most newsgroups and we like it our way.  so we appreciate
it when newcomers conform.  as for why the 'heirarchy' as you call them
haven't come down on you yet, they are probably waiting to see whether
they have to or not.  most of the people that come through here are or
behave like adults and so we work out most of our problems ourselves. 
if enough people complain however, i'm sure something would be done. 
anyway, hope you don't feel i stepped on your toes.

IMBJR wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:27:06 -0400, "Greg M. Johnson"
> <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
> 
> >IMBJR wrote:
> >> Chris wrote:
> >>>     That *is* a problem...but it shouldn't be too difficult to get
> >>>     some space on some free provider.
> >>  It is easy, and I do have some, but it is taken up with other
> >>  material. However, as I have stated before I prefer Usenet
> >>  for exhibition.
> >>>> Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.
> >
> >This ain't the usenet, it's not like the National Park Service or Central
> >Park.   It's more like a sheltered picnic table on a church's property, which is
> 
> Good, because the NPS seems to have little idea on how to conserve
> what it's got (way too much traffic, unlike my little spill) and
> Central Park ... has it still got a crime problem, or has Zero
> Tolerance stamped it out? If this place had Zero Tolerance, then I
> would not be able to continue this discussion.
> 
> >free for public use on weekdays, within certain guidelines. You come in and say
> >you want to store a few cases of canned goods on it, because your pantry is
> 
> I never treat Usenet as storage, just a pavement where I can prop up
> my work for a moment and let the good people going by have a look at
> it. Some of them even have constructive comments on the material they
> see. As for canned goods, well maybe they are, but they did start out
> fresh in the field.
> 
> >full.  Your main justification is that you can get away with it.  How incredibly
> 
> Bizarre! I don't recall saying that at all. If such "flooding" is a
> problem, then why hasn't the hierarchy come swooping down on me,
> either to ask me to cancel my posts (which I notice they, or their
> proxies, have asked some else to do), or just delete them themselves
> with a warning not to do it again or a complete lock-out. They seem to
> have no problem with the quantity. As I have said before, I have
> posted more than I did here in other places, and although there was
> the odd grumble, nothing happened like it has here, where the knives
> have come out and one person even decided to post a forgery of myself
> in my stomping ground (alt.binaries.slack). You really should not be
> so fragile about this.
> 
> >selfish.  You point to the lack of a lock on the door as justification, making
> >the church consider getting a lock.
> 
> Blimey! You would seriously retreat into some netherworld of closed
> doors and secret passwords just because the majority of Usenet users
> (or at least the ones I have encountered) do not think as you do? And
> by the way, as I have said before, this Church (strange you should
> liken it to one, suggesting that you are all somehow Special and
> Saved) does have very deep vaults. I've seen some quite old posts here
> that indicate that the place can well afford a little tide now and
> again - especially if, as someone suggested, the posts here are all
> archived for what I assume is perusal elsewhere.
> 
> >
> >> Yes, it is privately owned (like virtually all news servers: commercially,
> >> academically, or even as a hobby) - it is not private though. It still forms
> >> part of the general usenet community.
> >
> >A picnic table with no lock means it's Central Park, right ?
> 
> You have thrown me. First you say this is not Central Park, and now
> you are suggesting it is? Please clarify.
> 
> >
> >Do private servers---from usenet ones like Deja.com to non-usenet ones like
> >news.povray.org--- have the right to decide the terms of the public's free use
> >of their picnic tables?
> >
> They do have the right, but as I have stated above, I have not had my
> collar felt by the hierarchy. So I can assume one of the following:
> 
> 1. No such restrictions apply.
> 
> 2. Some have complained to the hierarchy and they were told to calm
> it.
> 
> 3. The hierarchy is asleep. A dangerous position for yourself: as I
> have previously stated elsewhere, this place could very easily become
> Spammer Armageddon*. If you suggest this place is self-policed then
> that is merely handing out wooden guns to the troops - no one has the
> real power to pull the plug on any abuser - only the Server Admin.
> 
> * Since the place is remarkably clean of Spam, I think the hierarchy
> is not asleep - either that or the spammers have not turned in this
> direction yet. Prey in your Church they do not.
> 
> PS. If you think space is a premium here then we are wasting it by
> this gainsaying, especially since this is a binaries group and not a
> place of talk (though I admit some do value the feedback here). If you
> reply to this message in this forum then I don't think I will be able
> to take you seriously from then on - stick to your principles and
> reply via e-mail. Of course if you do reply here, then so shall I as I
> have no qualms on that score.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Symmetry is wrong:
> http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:09:02 -0500, Chris Huff <chr### [at] maccom>
wrote:

>In article <me8lqs4e1kvbn0d7163hdtlqstljujd77v@4ax.com>, IMBJR 
><imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:
>
>> Is Chris Huff an elder? If he is then he should speak up and proclaim
>> it. There's no pointing trying to slap a wrist if you don't have the
>> pandy-bat.
>
>I *have* said before that I am a member of the TAG and pointed you to 
>the TAG web site(it is even included in my signature). I have also 
>pointed to the official documents in 
>povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions several times.
>Since you seem not to have read those, I will quote the relevant portion:
>
>"TAG members are not members of the POV-Team. But they are, however, an 
>official conduit between us and the outside world. They have direct 
>access to all members of the POV-Team. They have the right to speak on 
>our behalf on the POV news server and on any official mailing lists 
>that we set up for this purpose. Not everything they say will be 
>official ; only when they sign it as such. They can still act 
>'themselves' and have their own opinions at all other times."
>
>I suppose this makes me an "elder", if not part of the "heirarchy".

I stand corrected. Thanks.

>
>
>> Plus - and I may be wrong on this one, so correct me if I am - I have 
>> yet to see anything that says "Thou Shalt Not Flood the POV 
>> newserver".
>
>People asked you to not flood with large numbers of posts. That should 
>have been enough.
>Since the initial postings, you have done pretty well in this. :-)

Cheers. 

>
>
>> In fact Ken in povray.off-topic stated:
>> "Your material was on topic and in no way in violation of this news
>> servers policies."
>
>Your posts were not off-topic or directly against any official rules. In 
>fact, some of them seemed quite imaginative, creative, and well done, 
>though somewhat lacking in explanation. However, the way you posted them 
>doesn't fit with the customs that the users of this server have become 
>used to. There have been in-depth discussions in the past about the best 
>way to do things, what is considered acceptable, and what is considered 
>abuse. While not all of these are written, official rules, it is simply 
>polite to not insist on going against them.
>
>
>> Well, this may not be like real Usenet, but if this is were a foreign
>> country, then you would be losing valuable tourist-dollars through
>> displaying of isolationist viewpoints. You would never get new-blood
>> to come and live and work here.
>
>"Isolationist" is about as far from an accurate description of this 
>server as you can get! The people here just don't take well to 
>continued, intentional rudeness. We are very open and helpful to new 
>users or visitors. Your initial posting would have been regarded as a 
>mistake due to ignorance of how things on these groups are usually done 
>and it would have been forgiven and forgotten immediately, even by those 
>to whom it caused problems. However, your actions and postings since 
>then don't encourage good-will toward you. If you take the time to see 
>"how things are done" here and don't go against that, you will find a 
>very friendly and helpful community. It is *not* that we want everyone 
>to be identical and discourage individuality, it is just that we have 
>found a middle ground that everyone can live with.

----------------------------------------------------
Symmetry is wrong:
http://www.imbjr.com

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On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 12:10:56 -0700, ryan constantine
<rco### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

>the main (or real) problem as i see it is this:  the povray community
>that frequents these newsgroups is as tightly knit as it can get over
>the internet.  since you don't seem to like church, i'll use a swimming
>pool as an analogy.  as new people have come in, they have all waded in,
>politely testing the water to see not only what the written rules are
>here but the unwritten as well.  they have all made the transition from
>newbie in the newsgroups to regular user without much, if any, problem. 
>so when you showed up one day (presumably without lurking for long) and
>did a canon ball right where everyone was relaxing, people didn't
>appreciate it.  these groups are here for community support.  personal
>web pages are for showing off.  it is easy to get a ton of free space on
>the web.  my brother has twelve geocities accounts, so lack of web space
>is a pretty lame excuse to flood the newsgroups here.  i don't mean to

Mm, I must admit that was a weak side to my reasoning!

>come off as condescending, so don't get me wrong.  we just do things
>different from most newsgroups and we like it our way.  so we appreciate
>it when newcomers conform.  as for why the 'heirarchy' as you call them
>haven't come down on you yet, they are probably waiting to see whether
>they have to or not.  most of the people that come through here are or
>behave like adults and so we work out most of our problems ourselves. 
>if enough people complain however, i'm sure something would be done. 
>anyway, hope you don't feel i stepped on your toes.

Not at all, thanks for listening to me rant.

>
>IMBJR wrote:
>> 
>> On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:27:06 -0400, "Greg M. Johnson"
>> <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
>> 
>> >IMBJR wrote:
>> >> Chris wrote:
>> >>>     That *is* a problem...but it shouldn't be too difficult to get
>> >>>     some space on some free provider.
>> >>  It is easy, and I do have some, but it is taken up with other
>> >>  material. However, as I have stated before I prefer Usenet
>> >>  for exhibition.
>> >>>> Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.
>> >
>> >This ain't the usenet, it's not like the National Park Service or Central
>> >Park.   It's more like a sheltered picnic table on a church's property, which is
>> 
>> Good, because the NPS seems to have little idea on how to conserve
>> what it's got (way too much traffic, unlike my little spill) and
>> Central Park ... has it still got a crime problem, or has Zero
>> Tolerance stamped it out? If this place had Zero Tolerance, then I
>> would not be able to continue this discussion.
>> 
>> >free for public use on weekdays, within certain guidelines. You come in and say
>> >you want to store a few cases of canned goods on it, because your pantry is
>> 
>> I never treat Usenet as storage, just a pavement where I can prop up
>> my work for a moment and let the good people going by have a look at
>> it. Some of them even have constructive comments on the material they
>> see. As for canned goods, well maybe they are, but they did start out
>> fresh in the field.
>> 
>> >full.  Your main justification is that you can get away with it.  How incredibly
>> 
>> Bizarre! I don't recall saying that at all. If such "flooding" is a
>> problem, then why hasn't the hierarchy come swooping down on me,
>> either to ask me to cancel my posts (which I notice they, or their
>> proxies, have asked some else to do), or just delete them themselves
>> with a warning not to do it again or a complete lock-out. They seem to
>> have no problem with the quantity. As I have said before, I have
>> posted more than I did here in other places, and although there was
>> the odd grumble, nothing happened like it has here, where the knives
>> have come out and one person even decided to post a forgery of myself
>> in my stomping ground (alt.binaries.slack). You really should not be
>> so fragile about this.
>> 
>> >selfish.  You point to the lack of a lock on the door as justification, making
>> >the church consider getting a lock.
>> 
>> Blimey! You would seriously retreat into some netherworld of closed
>> doors and secret passwords just because the majority of Usenet users
>> (or at least the ones I have encountered) do not think as you do? And
>> by the way, as I have said before, this Church (strange you should
>> liken it to one, suggesting that you are all somehow Special and
>> Saved) does have very deep vaults. I've seen some quite old posts here
>> that indicate that the place can well afford a little tide now and
>> again - especially if, as someone suggested, the posts here are all
>> archived for what I assume is perusal elsewhere.
>> 
>> >
>> >> Yes, it is privately owned (like virtually all news servers: commercially,
>> >> academically, or even as a hobby) - it is not private though. It still forms
>> >> part of the general usenet community.
>> >
>> >A picnic table with no lock means it's Central Park, right ?
>> 
>> You have thrown me. First you say this is not Central Park, and now
>> you are suggesting it is? Please clarify.
>> 
>> >
>> >Do private servers---from usenet ones like Deja.com to non-usenet ones like
>> >news.povray.org--- have the right to decide the terms of the public's free use
>> >of their picnic tables?
>> >
>> They do have the right, but as I have stated above, I have not had my
>> collar felt by the hierarchy. So I can assume one of the following:
>> 
>> 1. No such restrictions apply.
>> 
>> 2. Some have complained to the hierarchy and they were told to calm
>> it.
>> 
>> 3. The hierarchy is asleep. A dangerous position for yourself: as I
>> have previously stated elsewhere, this place could very easily become
>> Spammer Armageddon*. If you suggest this place is self-policed then
>> that is merely handing out wooden guns to the troops - no one has the
>> real power to pull the plug on any abuser - only the Server Admin.
>> 
>> * Since the place is remarkably clean of Spam, I think the hierarchy
>> is not asleep - either that or the spammers have not turned in this
>> direction yet. Prey in your Church they do not.
>> 
>> PS. If you think space is a premium here then we are wasting it by
>> this gainsaying, especially since this is a binaries group and not a
>> place of talk (though I admit some do value the feedback here). If you
>> reply to this message in this forum then I don't think I will be able
>> to take you seriously from then on - stick to your principles and
>> reply via e-mail. Of course if you do reply here, then so shall I as I
>> have no qualms on that score.
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>> Symmetry is wrong:
>> http://www.imbjr.com

----------------------------------------------------
Symmetry is wrong:
http://www.imbjr.com

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> by Crosswinds. They state that I have unlimited webspace and I really want
> to test that!     ;)
Of course it can't be really unlimited, but I know someone who
uploaded more than 500MB there.

ZK
http://www.povplace.be.tf

Post a reply to this message

IMBJR wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:15:17 -0400, "Greg M. Johnson"
> <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:

> >usenet posting encouraging people to tear down this group.  Pardon me not liking
that

> >attitude.
>
> I retracted that statement as being very foolish.

I stand corrected. I had been under the impression, however, that the "retraction" was
the
forgery you were complaining about.

Splash away!

Post a reply to this message

Greg M. Johnson wrote in message <39ABC64B.736A19F4@my-dejanews.com>...
>IMBJR wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:15:17 -0400, "Greg M. Johnson"
>> <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
>
>> >usenet posting encouraging people to tear down this group.  Pardon me
not liking that
>
>> >attitude.
>>
>> I retracted that statement as being very foolish.
>
>I stand corrected. I had been under the impression, however, that the
"retraction" was the
>forgery you were complaining about.

I retracted the please-flood-POV-newserver part of my alt.binaries.slack
posting on alt.binaries.slack (the non-"Confession" post), the forgery was a
different matter all together. I think I now know who did it and have
contacted them twice about it in order to get an apology. If they don't then
I will post my evidence to pov.off-topic for that person's peers to judge
them.

>
>Splash away!
>

Post a reply to this message

Cannonball!!!!

Anyone get soaked?

Post a reply to this message

MikeH wrote in message <39AC2AE7.E0F2A9E7@aol.com>...
>Cannonball!!!!
>
>Anyone get soaked?

Some did, and some did not. Did you?

>

Post a reply to this message

IMBJR wrote in message <39a8dbd2@news.povray.org>...

>I think it is quite possible that spammers are in fact harvesting e-mail
>addresses from these groups. The POV server will only see someone accessing
>the headers like the rest of us do. I think it is naive of you to believe
>you are safe from spam; if the spammers just got one sniff of this server
>they would have a field day.


I can assure you they aren't.  I've been posting here for over a year, and I
haven't gotten a single spam e-mail at the address I use.

Mark

Post a reply to this message

IMBJR wrote in message <39a7e32d@news.povray.org>...
>This news server (news.povray.org) seems to have pretty deep pockets. I am
>currently downloading the entire contents of povray.binaries.images and I
>noted that the earliest post is from about July 1998. So even if I did
>release my material in staged intervals it would all still be available for
>download at some point, leaving the individual browser the option of
>downloading in staged intervals. Remember, no one is forcing you to
download
>these images.


This may be a little after the fact, but about three months ago, the server
ran out of space, forcing a number of posts from the povray.binaries.*
groups to be expired.

Mark

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 3 Sep 2000 02:39:54 -0400, "Mark Wagner"
<mar### [at] gtenet> wrote:

>
>IMBJR wrote in message <39a7e32d@news.povray.org>...
>>This news server (news.povray.org) seems to have pretty deep pockets. I am
>>currently downloading the entire contents of povray.binaries.images and I
>>noted that the earliest post is from about July 1998. So even if I did
>>release my material in staged intervals it would all still be available for
>>download at some point, leaving the individual browser the option of
>>downloading in staged intervals. Remember, no one is forcing you to
>download
>>these images.
>
>
>This may be a little after the fact, but about three months ago, the server
>ran out of space, forcing a number of posts from the povray.binaries.*
>groups to be expired.

Really? Strange, I could have sworn I have downloaded stuff from
fairly well back - in fact, just to test I am currently downloading
something in this group that was appearently posted 4/99 (Squeezer by
Andrew Cocker) ...

...yup, downloaded.

>
>Mark
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Wasting time since 1967:
http://www.imbjr.com
Vanity publishing:
http://www.cafepress.com/imbjr_001

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"IMBJR" <imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote in message
news:ei61uscoq5718n7jqj2538oqdql16lp0dm@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 3 Sep 2000 02:39:54 -0400, "Mark Wagner"
> <mar### [at] gtenet> wrote:
>
> >
> >IMBJR wrote in message <39a7e32d@news.povray.org>...
> >>This news server (news.povray.org) seems to have pretty deep pockets. I
am
> >>currently downloading the entire contents of povray.binaries.images and
I
> >>noted that the earliest post is from about July 1998. So even if I did
> >>release my material in staged intervals it would all still be available
for
> >>download at some point, leaving the individual browser the option of
> >>downloading in staged intervals. Remember, no one is forcing you to
> >download
> >>these images.
> >
> >
> >This may be a little after the fact, but about three months ago, the
server
> >ran out of space, forcing a number of posts from the povray.binaries.*
> >groups to be expired.
>
> Really? Strange, I could have sworn I have downloaded stuff from
> fairly well back - in fact, just to test I am currently downloading
> something in this group that was appearently posted 4/99 (Squeezer by
> Andrew Cocker) ...
>
> ...yup, downloaded.

So? Note that Mark did not say -all- the posts prior to three months ago
were removed. He said that about three months ago, a -number- of posts were
expired. The articles still do go quite a ways back, but not as far back as
they used to. I think at least the oldest years worth were removed.

--
Paul Vanukoff

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