"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> > Here's a new version of POV-Ray to test:
> >
> [snip]
> > Be advised that this binary-only release wants to reside in an existing
> > v3.7.x installation.
> >
>
> So, it seems that installing this into v3.7.1 beta 9 (which is a 'stand-alone'
> version of Pov-Ray) is OK to do(?)-- but I'm not absolutely sure. The only
> reason I ask is that the new version's download page says, "This is a
> binary-only development release; to install, copy the binary into an existing
> POV-Ray 3.7 installation." It doesn't specifically say "3.7.x" there.
>
> Sorry if I sound like I'm nit-picking or over-analyzing the situation.

It's okay either place, I put the first 3.8 alpha into my 3.7.1 beta 9 bin
folder and this current alpha into 3.7.1 release candidate bin folder.

And just to be sure, tried v3.7.0 now too. Okay there as well.

I'm renaming the original pvengine64.exe file and using the new pvengine64.exe,
I have not used any others such as 32 bit.

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"omniverse" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote:
> "Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> >
> > So, it seems that installing this into v3.7.1 beta 9 (which is a 'stand-alone'
> > version of Pov-Ray) is OK to do(?)

> It's okay either place, I put the first 3.8 alpha into my 3.7.1 beta 9 bin
> folder and this current alpha into 3.7.1 release candidate bin folder.
>
> And just to be sure, tried v3.7.0 now too. Okay there as well.
>
Thanks!

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Am 25.09.2017 um 05:01 schrieb Kenneth:
> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> Here's a new version of POV-Ray to test:
>>
> [snip]
>> Be advised that this binary-only release wants to reside in an existing
>> v3.7.x installation.
>>
> 
> So, it seems that installing this into v3.7.1 beta 9 (which is a 'stand-alone'
> version of Pov-Ray) is OK to do(?)-- but I'm not absolutely sure. The only
> reason I ask is that the new version's download page says, "This is a
> binary-only development release; to install, copy the binary into an existing
> POV-Ray 3.7 installation." It doesn't specifically say "3.7.x" there.
> 
> Sorry if I sound like I'm nit-picking or over-analyzing the situation.

Technically, it should work best with any POV-Ray v3.7.x release proper
- which de facto means v3.7.0. (POV-Ray v3.7.1-rc1 should also work
fine, but that installer is no longer officially available.)

It /may/ work ok with any v3.7.x-beta, but it isn't designed to do so,
and there may be subtle problems arising out of it - stuff like being
unable to find certain files, or loading a file from an unexpected
directory.

The background there is that POV-Ray for Windows uses a portion of its
version number in directory names and registry keys, namely `vX.Y`
(which I refer to as the "generation") for any POV-Ray vX.Y.Z final
release. Subsequent versions of the same generation are supposed to
replace earlier installations - but only as soon as they're out of beta,
so beta versions instead use `vX.Y-beta` for their directory names and
registry keys, so that installing them won't ruin a good installation of
the predecessor version.

Alpha versions don't come with an installer, so that risk doesn't exist
there; to the contrary, they need portions of the predecessor
installation to live; so alpha versions use plain `vX.Y` for their
directory names and registry keys.

(And in the case of v3.8.0-alpha, `v3.8` won't do, as the predecessor
version's generation was v3.7.)

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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 25.09.2017 um 05:01 schrieb Kenneth:
> >>
[Clipka wrote:]
> >> Be advised that this binary-only release wants to reside in an existing
> >> v3.7.x installation.
> >>
> > So, it seems that installing this into v3.7.1 beta 9 (which is
> > a 'stand-alone' version of Pov-Ray) is OK to do(?)--
>
> Technically, it should work best with any POV-Ray v3.7.x release proper
> - which de facto means v3.7.0. (POV-Ray v3.7.1-rc1 should also work
> fine, but that installer is no longer officially available.)
>
> It /may/ work ok with any v3.7.x-beta, but it isn't designed to do so,
> and there may be subtle problems arising out of it - stuff like being
> unable to find certain files, or loading a file from an unexpected
> directory.

Well, I'm learning something new every day ;-) Thanks for the clarification (and
I hope I understand it all.) For one thing, it seems that I've been erroneously
assuming "3.7x" and "3.7.x" to mean the same thing. (I've always used those
interchangably-- including "3.7xx"-- as a kind of lazy 'shorthand', in my own
mind and here in the newsgroups, for the same meaning-- not realizing that they
may have different meanings technically.) And yes, I've already run into the
'loading of a file from an unexpected directory' problem, in some of the
previous alphas/betas-- due no doubt to my lazy/hazy understanding of the
underlying processes.
>
> The background there is that POV-Ray for Windows uses a portion of its
> version number in directory names and registry keys, namely `vX.Y`
> (which I refer to as the "generation") for any POV-Ray vX.Y.Z final
> release.
[snip]

Thanks. I definitely don't want to screw up the registry! (OR my current beta 9
install.)

SO...I'll stick to installing this newest version into 3.7.0 proper.

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Am 25.09.2017 um 22:12 schrieb Kenneth:

> Well, I'm learning something new every day ;-) Thanks for the clarification (and
> I hope I understand it all.) For one thing, it seems that I've been erroneously
> assuming "3.7x" and "3.7.x" to mean the same thing. (I've always used those
> interchangably-- including "3.7xx"-- as a kind of lazy 'shorthand', in my own
> mind and here in the newsgroups, for the same meaning-- not realizing that they
> may have different meanings technically.)

In some sense, versions "3.7x" and "3.7.x" do indeed mean the same thing
- namely in that if "3.7x" is to be interpreted as /any/ version of
POV-Ray, it can only be interpreted as a (sloppy) shorthand for "3.7.x".
Otherwise it would have to be interpreted as
"Three-dot-SeventySomething", which does not exist (not yet at any rate,
and possibly never will, if only for technical reasons).

The origin of this imprecise notation is probably the syntax and
semantics of the `#version` statement and `version` variable, which
encode the version number as a floating point value, with the second
decimal place representing the third portion of the version number, e.g.
both `#version 3.7` and `#version 3.70` identifying v3.7.0, `#version
3.62` identifying v3.6.2, etc.

Another reason might be that POV-Ray's version numbering scheme has
never been officially codified until quite recently.

As for proliferation of that sloppy notation, it can be blamed on lots
of people, including members of the dev team. I guess even I myself did
use it on several occasions in the past.

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Well, that explains why I can't access the help menu / docs with either F1 or
the drop-down menu.

clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

> Another reason might be that POV-Ray's version numbering scheme has
> never been officially codified until quite recently.

Is there documentation / explanation for how that all works?
Just curious, because one thing I'd like to see folks voluntarily adopt is
version numbers in their filenames and as comments in the code.

I often can't figure out which file I have, or what the latest file of the 12
all-named-the-same "myUsefulMacros.inc" is, and if I understood the reasoning
behind the classification, I could start to play along from home.  ;)

It would also be useful for the Insert-Menu, parts of which I tend to
extensively edit, and am paranoid that I'm going to accidentally obliterate with
some new version installation....

Thanks!   :)

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Am 26.09.2017 um 00:03 schrieb Bald Eagle:
> Well, that explains why I can't access the help menu / docs with either F1 or
> the drop-down menu.

Well... no, that's a different problem (though not entirely unrelated):
The name of the help file has been changed from `povray37.chm` to
`povray.chm`.

You can obtain an up-to-date help file from our GitHub repo; here's link
directly to the download:

https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/raw/release/v3.8.0/distribution/platform-specific/windows/Help/povray.chm


>> Another reason might be that POV-Ray's version numbering scheme has
>> never been officially codified until quite recently.
> 
> Is there documentation / explanation for how that all works?
> Just curious, because one thing I'd like to see folks voluntarily adopt is
> version numbers in their filenames and as comments in the code.
> 
> I often can't figure out which file I have, or what the latest file of the 12
> all-named-the-same "myUsefulMacros.inc" is, and if I understood the reasoning
> behind the classification, I could start to play along from home.  ;)
> 
> It would also be useful for the Insert-Menu, parts of which I tend to
> extensively edit, and am paranoid that I'm going to accidentally obliterate with
> some new version installation....

Not sure what your question is here.

If you are looking for a good version numbering scheme for stuff you've
created (or that others have created), I strongly recommend having a
look at Semantic Versioning (http://semver.org/).

In a nutshell, in Semantic Versioning version numbers take the form
`MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH`, where all of `MAJOR`, `MINOR` and `PATCH` are
numeric, and...

- An increment in `MAJOR` indicates backward-incompatible changes.
- An increment in `MINOR` indicates added functionality.
- An increment in `PATCH` indicates bugfixes.

In addition, an optional (not necessarily numeric) suffix of the form
`-PRE` can be appended, indicating that this is not quite version
MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH yet (e.g. `-alpha`, `-beta.32`, `rc2` or the like).

In binaries, another optional (not necessarily numeric) suffix,
`+BUILD`, can be appended to distinguish different binaries built from
the same source code version (e.g. `+win32-sse2`).


As for POV-Ray's recently codified version numbering scheme, it is
strongly inspired by Semantic Versioning 2.0, but does have some notable
differences. For details, see the following link:

https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/blob/release/v3.8.0/source-doc/versioning.md

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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

> You can obtain an up-to-date help file from our GitHub repo; here's link
> directly to the download:
>
>
https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/raw/release/v3.8.0/distribution/platform-specific/windows/Help/povray.chm

Super.  Thanks for the tip  :)



> In a nutshell, in Semantic Versioning version numbers take the form
> `MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH`, where all of `MAJOR`, `MINOR` and `PATCH` are
> numeric, and...
>
> - An increment in `MAJOR` indicates backward-incompatible changes.
> - An increment in `MINOR` indicates added functionality.
> - An increment in `PATCH` indicates bugfixes.

Thanks - that little framework ought to be all I need to make more sense of
things and try to keep files better organized.

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Attention please!

Must caution everyone concerning what I said earlier about the alpha being okay
anywhere, so back to the subject of running the 3.8 alpha pvengine64.exe from
any 3.7.x install.

Something happened with the file open and file save that I can't explain. Don't
know if it has anything to do with what Clipka was saying about version mixups
but since I had put the 3.8 alpha into all three installs here I guess that's a
possibility.

Those three versions are 3.7.0, 3.7.1 beta and 3.7.1.  I only rendered already
open files to test 3.8 alpha, until now. Did not realize anything might be
wrong.

So would be wise to avoid putting the alpha into multiple installs anyhow, or at
least pvengine64.exe since that's what I was using.

The file open/save (as) caused Windows 10 to force a close of the program. Acts
like it isn't able to determine the correct folder/file location to use.

And unfortunately, for me, uninstalling all versions and reinstalling 3.7.0
again has yet to fix the problem.

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"omniverse" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote:
>
> Attention please!
[snip]
> The file open/save (as) caused Windows 10 to force a close of the program. Acts
> like it isn't able to determine the correct folder/file location to use.
>
> And unfortunately, for me, uninstalling all versions and reinstalling 3.7.0
> again has yet to fix the problem.

Sorry to hear that you're having such troubles. I guess you've already tried
shutting down the machine and restarting? That seems to help somewhat with
strange glitches, at least on my Win7 box. Sounds like a registry problem (if
Win10 even has a registry now!)

The only problem I've ever seen with POV-Ray (in my own similar alpha/beta
install screwups) is a mis-loaded 'resolution INI' file; but that was easily
fixed.

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