I'd appreciate if if some of you could do a sanity-check of the full
installer for beta 27:

  http://www.povray.org/temp/POV-Ray-3.7-Beta-27.msi

It's not finished of course, but should do the basics. Here's the portion
of the release notes relevent to the installer:

--------------------------------

Further split the POVWIN install and data dirs - this moves the ini,
scenes, and insert menu directories to the user's Application Data folder,
e.g. c:\Documents and Settings\<user name>\Application Data\POV-Ray\v3.7\.

There is now a Windows Installer which takes care of setting up the above
for Win32 systems. Win64 is pending. NOTE: the installer currently only
installs for the user who ran it: that is, the 'Application
Data\POV-Ray\v3.7\...' files are only installed for that user. This won't
be the case with the final installer; it will set things up such that when
pvengine.exe is run for the first time by a user who has not had the
program set up for them, the appropriate files are created in their
Application Data directory (this is a Windows Installer feature).

-- Chris

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This file is now removed, thanks to those who did test it.

-- Chris

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Missed my chance to test this one.

The currently available file on the beta web page wouldn't go into my Vista 
computer so I had to do some system registry additions and font installs 
manually. I'm the sole user, administrator status.

Was thinking it could have been Vista's User Account Control causing the 
trouble, although I don't know why that would affect the system registry 
entries themselves, but not knowing exactly what all it can interfere with I 
just gave up and watched the error messages to know what to fix during the 
install and clicked Ignore to proceed.

I have folders and files in C:\Users\*NAME*\AppData\Roaming\POV-Ray\v3.7, 
different from what was stated so thought I'd mention that for other people 
with Vista. AppData is a hidden folder.

I kept UAC and AV on during all that so I can't say what would have happened 
without those. I believe I might have also needed to make the a change to 
POV-Ray for Windows v3.7  folder(s) to get file writing done by changing the 
Properties|Security to Full access. Did this last night and already 
forgetting that now, sorry, hope I remembered all else right.

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Bob Hughes wrote:
> The currently available file on the beta web page wouldn't go into my Vista 
> computer so I had to do some system registry additions and font installs 
> manually. I'm the sole user, administrator status.

I was able to install under Vista as an ordinary user (no admin). I had to
choose a different install path, and also had to click to ignore several
errors during install (where the installer attempts to do things like set
admin keys or install fonts - none of these are essential). No registry
editing was needed to get the installed program to work. I'm not sure what
went awry in your case.

NB the fonts in question are part of the standard POV-Ray include directory
and weren't even intended to be installed into Windows: I didn't realise
until I did the no-admin-rights Vista test that InstallShield automatically
installs any fonts it finds in the file set, unless you tell it otherwise.
At that point it was so late I decided not to make a new installer as the
fonts will be removed when the current beta is uninstalled.

-- Chris-

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"Chris Cason" <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote in 
message news:486f0972$1@news.povray.org...
> Bob Hughes wrote:
>> The currently available file on the beta web page wouldn't go into my 
>> Vista
>> computer so I had to do some system registry additions and font installs
>> manually. I'm the sole user, administrator status.
>
> I was able to install under Vista as an ordinary user (no admin). I had to
> choose a different install path, and also had to click to ignore several
> errors during install (where the installer attempts to do things like set
> admin keys or install fonts - none of these are essential). No registry
> editing was needed to get the installed program to work. I'm not sure what
> went awry in your case.

Glad to hear you say that, I think. ; )

I'm fairly certain I had to change the security status of the program folder 
to let the installer write the files first, likewise the "bin" subfolder, as 
I recall. I didn't have any luck with specifying a different location 
outside of Program Files. Then again, I kept stopping when I got the errors.

> NB the fonts in question are part of the standard POV-Ray include 
> directory
> and weren't even intended to be installed into Windows: I didn't realise
> until I did the no-admin-rights Vista test that InstallShield 
> automatically
> installs any fonts it finds in the file set, unless you tell it otherwise.
> At that point it was so late I decided not to make a new installer as the
> fonts will be removed when the current beta is uninstalled.

I actually added the fonts after the fact, remembering that now, and just 
wanted to go ahead with the manual install of them anyway. I had run povray 
before that without any problem.

A lack of any other reports of trouble getting POV installed into Vista 
makes my experience seem unique. Maybe I can retry it again after an 
uninstall, now that I know I can put the thing back together easily enough, 
just to see if I can figure out if those errors are ignorable or not. If 
anything I'm wondering why the initial trouble about the folder writing 
happened. I was sure anything like that would be reported if other people 
had the same problem unless it's a simple thing I've overlooked-- very 
likely for me.

Bob

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On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 04:24:35 -0500, "Bob Hughes" <omniverse charter net> wrote:

>
>A lack of any other reports of trouble getting POV installed into Vista 
>makes my experience seem unique.

I'm having the same problems. 
Also after installing I could not get the GUIExtensions to work. Pov-Ray says
that there are no Extensions loaded. Even after I manually added the settings to
the Registry

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\POV-Ray\v3.7\Windows\Engine\GUIExtensions

I've gone back to Beta 26
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen wrote:
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\POV-Ray\v3.7\Windows\Engine\GUIExtensions

The registry is not used (I reverted to the old INI file system: see the
release notes).

-- Chris

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Got around to removing the beta 27 through Add/Remove Programs (no 
uninstaller for the beta yet?), removed the subfolder out of 
AppData\roaming and retried the install with User Account Control off. I'd 
have tried it with UAC on but didn't take the time to find out what that 
route might do, sorry.

Nothing went wrong at all. Rendered the demo files and benchmark afterward, 
too. Perfect.

What's really thrown me for a loop is where I discovered my POV files were 
being put. A little oversight by me, I suspect, maybe missing a note given 
somewhere about them going elsewhere now. Perhaps a few months ago I had 
done a beta /install switch, so maybe that's when it started. This folder I 
was never aware of is:

C:\Users\*name*\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows 
v3.7

Only subfolders in there are \help and \scenes, which is probably known to 
you, Chris, but if I hadn't been looking for files to backup during this 
beta 27 install I doubt I'd ever have noticed. Although, I do recall 
something said about making some changes to file locations. Unfortunately I 
haven't been paying enough attention lately.

This is a very curious thing to me, since somehow I was opening, rendering 
and closing about a dozen files these past few months (yep, other than a 
particular one I haven't been busy with POVing) without realizing the change 
from the usual folder path I'm accustomed to in C:\Program Files.
So in doing file backups before installing then replacing them into the new 
C:\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows v3.7 folder, and opening into POV, 
suddenly I was seeing older changes and incorrect file dates. Using Save 
as... wasn't showing me enough of the path so I mistakenly thought it was 
still in the pre-beta place.

Hope this makes others who aren't aware of this as of yet keep from losing 
or mixing up their files.

I guess the most important question to ask would be, how are files going to 
be accessed for backup purposes (among other typical file processes) by the 
end user if this location isn't obvious?

Oh, and thanks once more to all involved with the work on these beta(s).
-- 
/*bob hughes*/

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:02 +1000, Chris Cason
<del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\POV-Ray\v3.7\Windows\Engine\GUIExtensions
>
>The registry is not used (I reverted to the old INI file system: see the
>release notes).
>

Duh! Thanks Chris I forgot about "pvengine.ini". The GUI works now, other than
it does not return the rendered image. But that has been the case in all the
betas, I have tried, so I assume that you will get round to it when you can.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:
> Duh! Thanks Chris I forgot about "pvengine.ini". The GUI works now, other than
> it does not return the rendered image. But that has been the case in all the
> betas, I have tried, so I assume that you will get round to it when you can.

I really don't think I'll have time to look into GUIEXT's in the short to
medium term - the fix is likely to be simple but needs testing (I don't
have any GUIEXT's installed) and the source is out there for others to poke at.

Also, the author of at least one GUIEXT has had access to our revision
control system for more than a year but hasn't had time to fix it either:
given that, I have taken the approach that the issues with them can't be
that serious.

-- Chris

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Bob Hughes wrote:
> somewhere about them going elsewhere now. Perhaps a few months ago I had 
> done a beta /install switch, so maybe that's when it started. This folder I 
> was never aware of is:
> 
> C:\Users\*name*\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows 
> v3.7

I'm not familiar with this path. Certainly, the path itself isn't something
that I have coded explicitly into the app. I suspect it's a Vista 'feature'
related to redirecting modified data out of program files and into a users
local profile. If this is still occurring with the version that comes with
a installer let me know and I'll look up its meaning.

-- Chris

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Bob Hughes wrote:
> Got around to removing the beta 27 through Add/Remove Programs (no 
> uninstaller for the beta yet?), removed the subfolder out of 

that *is* the uninstaller (at least, the 'correct' way of uninstalling). or
you could just run the installer again (not intuitive, but that's MSI's for
you). the use of a stand-alone uninstaller seems to have more or less gone
out of vogue.

> C:\Users\*name*\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows 
> v3.7

http://www.itwriting.com/blog/141-peeking-into-vistas-virtual-store.html
gives some background. the current beta should not write anything to the
program files folder.

-- Chris

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:13:09 +1000, Chris Cason
<del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> Duh! Thanks Chris I forgot about "pvengine.ini". The GUI works now, other than
>> it does not return the rendered image. But that has been the case in all the
>> betas, I have tried, so I assume that you will get round to it when you can.
>
>I really don't think I'll have time to look into GUIEXT's in the short to
>medium term - the fix is likely to be simple but needs testing (I don't
>have any GUIEXT's installed) 
>
That does not surprise me :)

>Also, the author of at least one GUIEXT has had access to our revision
>control system for more than a year but hasn't had time to fix it either:
>given that, I have taken the approach that the issues with them can't be
>that serious.
>
The issues are not important and I'm more than willing to put up with having to
Alt-Tab to PovRay to see the rendered image. The speed up using Pov 3.7 is worth
the slight inconvenience.
As an aside the only other inconvenience is, I cannot see the sample images in
the material editor but then I can render them in 3.6.
I do not expect Hugo to waste time on getting the GUIEXT's working for a Beta
Pov when he is trying to prepare his program for its final release.
So no worries, no pressure :)
Keep up the good work.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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"Chris Cason" <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote in 
message news:4871f492@news.povray.org...
> Bob Hughes wrote:
>> Got around to removing the beta 27 through Add/Remove Programs (no
>> uninstaller for the beta yet?), removed the subfolder out of
>
> that *is* the uninstaller (at least, the 'correct' way of uninstalling). 
> or
> you could just run the installer again (not intuitive, but that's MSI's 
> for
> you). the use of a stand-alone uninstaller seems to have more or less gone
> out of vogue.

I see... ok. This was something in the 3.6 installation so I noticed it 
missing from 3.7. And I actually shouldn't have said "Add/Remove", thinking 
back to XP there since Vista just calls it Uninstall now (like that matters! 
heh).

>> C:\Users\*name*\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\POV-Ray for 
>> Windows
>> v3.7
>
> http://www.itwriting.com/blog/141-peeking-into-vistas-virtual-store.html
> gives some background. the current beta should not write anything to the
> program files folder.

Showing my ineptitude by not knowing what all Vista encompasses by now, 
having used it for the past 8 months. Apparently I can set POV to Run as 
Administrator and bypass the VirtualStore "feature". I wasn't before now 
simply because all appeared to be correct with both 3.6 and 3.7 beta.
Interestingly, there's only a biscuit.bmp in a 3.6 scenes\advanced subfolder 
there. However, 3.6 obviously caused Vista to put something there for it 
too.

Speaking of the scenes folder... realizing the 3.7 beta is putting one into 
the other path at

C:\Users\*name*\AppData\roaming\POV-Ray for Windows v3.7

and none into the usual place at

C:\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows v3.7

I guess the confusing thing for me is how that, together with the other 
potential file placement above, will affect things. Would it be possible to 
have the installer ask to create a location for scene files? Maybe default 
to C:\Scenes\ and likewise for a file output location, such as 
C:\Renderings\ while I'm on the subject of default file locations.

The way the new beta installer does things has probably been planned awhile 
and I'm just wondering if this was all thought about already-- or if the 
Vista OS is causing some extra complications to arise.

Only now read a little more about VirtualStore... it's mentioned it might 
not always exist in the future.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb530198.aspx

-- 
/*bob hughes*/

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Chris Cason wrote:

> that *is* the uninstaller (at least, the 'correct' way of uninstalling). or
> you could just run the installer again (not intuitive, but that's MSI's for
> you). the use of a stand-alone uninstaller seems to have more or less gone
> out of vogue.

I didn't yet look at beta 27, but not having a stand-alone uninstaller
is different from not providing an uninstall link, which would probably
just have to be something like "[systemdir]msiexec /x {productcode}"

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Bob Hughes wrote:

> Interestingly, there's only a biscuit.bmp in a 3.6 scenes\advanced 
> subfolder there. 

Probably the only sample scene you actually rendered
with 3.6 on Vista without administrator privileges.

> Speaking of the scenes folder... realizing the 3.7 beta is putting one 
> into the other path at
> 
> C:\Users\*name*\AppData\roaming\POV-Ray for Windows v3.7
> 
> and none into the usual place at
> 
> C:\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows v3.7

That is actually the intended solution of the Vista problems:
Install ini and scene files where the user is allowed to write
in the first place, then you need no virtual store.

Post a reply to this message

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> I was able to install under Vista as an ordinary user (no admin). I had to
> choose a different install path, and also had to click to ignore several
> errors during install (where the installer attempts to do things like set
> admin keys or install fonts - none of these are essential). No registry
> editing was needed to get the installed program to work. I'm not sure what
> went awry in your case.

So, I tried to install it using the default location (Program Files).  I get a
permission error when it tries to copy the files (can't write to the
directory). I don't get the usual UAC prompt like I do installing other
programs.  I would assume that coping the files would be done by elevating to
Administrator or SYSTEM privs first, but I have the feeling it is trying to
copy the files as the local user instead.  That probably also explains the
other errors you get (normal user can't muck with those either).

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