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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Driving et Physics Playground
Date: 15 Aug 2014 06:45:58
Message: <53ede4e6$1@news.povray.org>
On 15/08/2014 10:50, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> El 15/08/14 a las #4, Stephen escribió:
>> Thanks, I got that and it looks just the thing. :-D
>>
>> Ah! it appears in PoseRay as a right hand drive. (The way that God
>> intended. :-P )
>
>    Yes, but only because of the conversion... I guess René, being French,
> designed it as Satan intended. :)
>

Not Satan but Napoleon.

>    Fortunately, in POV-Ray, the difference between good and evil is
> simply "scale <1,1,-1>".
>

How simple! If only RL were like that.


>> I'll probably create an animation so that there will be several
>> meshes to choose from. I'll use the smallest acceptable mesh so no
>> close ups, please. ;-)
>
>    Yes, no close ups: almost a low-poly will do... also, the glass is
> tinted, and the sun position is going to be high enough to keep it in
> the shadow.
>
>> Any preference to gender?
>
>    Not really, but maybe a man is more suited to keep the triangle count
> small, as you can make it bald without remorse.
>

Posted both in p.b.misc

>> I've got a Poser cat or a skellington that might be interesting.
>
>    Make it human for the moment, please... :)
>
Shucks! I want to do a green Alien lizard from outer space, driving the car.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Driving et Physics Playground
Date: 15 Aug 2014 07:32:58
Message: <53edefea$1@news.povray.org>
Am 15.08.2014 11:14, schrieb Stephen:
> On 15/08/2014 09:51, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>
>>
>>    René kindly sent me the Wings3D file, but oddly it doesn't seems
>> complete: the wheel is missing. Fortunately, Poseray can import POV
>> meshes, so I just made a 3DS file from there:
>>
>> http://www.ignorancia.org/en/uploads/tmp/micra_inner.3ds
>>
>>
>
> Thanks, I got that and it looks just the thing. :-D
>
> Ah! it appears in PoseRay as a right hand drive. (The way that God
> intended. :-P )

Well, there /is/ some practical reason why driving on the right lane is 
more natural. You see, most people are right handed, and will also have 
a dominant right leg, i.e. their right leg is stronger. It is therefore 
easier and more natural for most humans to walk a counter-clockwise 
circle than a clockwise one. So from a psychological point of view, to 
an otherwise unbiased person it will come more natural to make U-turns 
to the left rather than to the right.

(In a similar vein, shifting gears with the right hand is probably 
easier as well.)

It also expresses a more friendly attitude: When moving around as a 
pedestrian, passing oncoming people to the right exposes your heart side 
to them, which shows some degree of trust. That same pattern 
extrapolated to vehicle traffic means that in general we continental 
Europeans are the friendlier lot.

:-)


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Driving et Physics Playground
Date: 15 Aug 2014 12:41:57
Message: <53ee3855$1@news.povray.org>
On 15/08/2014 12:32, clipka wrote:
> Am 15.08.2014 11:14, schrieb Stephen:

>> Ah! it appears in PoseRay as a right hand drive. (The way that God
>> intended. :-P )
>
> Well, there /is/ some practical reason why driving on the right lane is
> more natural.

Did the Supernatural Being of your choice tell you that? :-P

> You see, most people are right handed, and will also have
> a dominant right leg, i.e. their right leg is stronger. It is therefore
> easier and more natural for most humans to walk a counter-clockwise
> circle than a clockwise one.

Not so from what I've read.

http://news.sciencemag.org/2009/08/why-we-walk-circles
http://sciencenetlinks.com/science-news/science-updates/walking-in-circles/


> So from a psychological point of view, to
> an otherwise unbiased person it will come more natural to make U-turns
> to the left rather than to the right.
>

:-O

> (In a similar vein, shifting gears with the right hand is probably
> easier as well.)
>

In my experience it is not. In fact I find shifting gears with my right 
hand is more clunky as it is stronger. *
I have lived and driven in countries ** that drive on the left and in 
ones that drive on the right. The only difference for me is that I tend 
to drift the wrong way if I am not thinking. In Britain I drift to the 
left abroad I drift to the right. Probably because I learned to drive on 
a motorbike and I keep to the kerb side.


> It also expresses a more friendly attitude: When moving around as a
> pedestrian, passing oncoming people to the right exposes your heart side
> to them, which shows some degree of trust. That same pattern
> extrapolated to vehicle traffic means that in general we continental
> Europeans are the friendlier lot.
>
> :-)
>

Yeah history shows that to be true. ;-)

* The one time I tried teaching my wife to drive. I suggested that she 
steer and I would do the gear changes. I actually snapped the stick off 
at the base (it was an old car) with my right hand then I had to drive 
home myself in second gear.

** Having said that. It may be just me. I am not ambidextrous but I use 
my left hand a lot and will pick something up with it if it is closer to 
my left hand than my right. Dr John was surprised at that but it is 
natural (there is that word again). I can also do mirror writing with my 
right hand.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Le Forgeron
Subject: Re: Driving et Physics Playground
Date: 15 Aug 2014 12:58:00
Message: <53ee3c18$1@news.povray.org>
On 15/08/2014 13:32, clipka wrote:
> passing oncoming people to the right exposes your heart side to them

And the other choice exposes the liver.

Both are vital organs.

Everything might be in the symbol you choose:
 * Exposing your heart, and the side with the sword, as well as the
shield on the left arm.
 * Exposing your liver, and its bile.

-- 
IQ of crossposters with FU: 100 / (number of groups)
IQ of crossposters without FU: 100 / (1 + number of groups)
IQ of multiposters: 100 / ( (number of groups) * (number of groups))


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Driving et Physics Playground
Date: 15 Aug 2014 13:28:06
Message: <53ee4326$1@news.povray.org>
Am 15.08.2014 18:41, schrieb Stephen:
> On 15/08/2014 12:32, clipka wrote:
>> Am 15.08.2014 11:14, schrieb Stephen:
>
>>> Ah! it appears in PoseRay as a right hand drive. (The way that God
>>> intended. :-P )
>>
>> Well, there /is/ some practical reason why driving on the right lane is
>> more natural.
>
> Did the Supernatural Being of your choice tell you that? :-P

No, the /Natural/ Being of my choice. Otherwise I surely would have said 
that it is more /supernatural/ ;-)


>> You see, most people are right handed, and will also have
>> a dominant right leg, i.e. their right leg is stronger. It is therefore
>> easier and more natural for most humans to walk a counter-clockwise
>> circle than a clockwise one.
>
> Not so from what I've read.
>
> http://news.sciencemag.org/2009/08/why-we-walk-circles
> http://sciencenetlinks.com/science-news/science-updates/walking-in-circles/

Note that this study has not much relationship with the issue at hand: 
The candidates' task was to walk as straight as possible with limited 
information; whether people tend to veer to the left or right in such a 
circumstance says nothing about whether they prefer to walk left or 
right turns when walking in a circle deliberately.

The tendency of people to prefer walking left turns over right turns has 
long been identified by /the/ one most motivated, well-funded and 
experienced branch of applied behavioural science of all: Marketing 
analysis. Shops are arranged on this basis, and it works.


>> So from a psychological point of view, to
>> an otherwise unbiased person it will come more natural to make U-turns
>> to the left rather than to the right.
>
> :-O

Yup. Fortunately for you people on the island, you're all being biased 
during driving lessons :-)

>> (In a similar vein, shifting gears with the right hand is probably
>> easier as well.)
>
> In my experience it is not. In fact I find shifting gears with my right
> hand is more clunky as it is stronger. *

...

> * The one time I tried teaching my wife to drive. I suggested that she
> steer and I would do the gear changes. I actually snapped the stick off
> at the base (it was an old car) with my right hand then I had to drive
> home myself in second gear.

That may well be due to having no training whatsoever in shifting gears 
with the right hand.

> ** Having said that. It may be just me. I am not ambidextrous but I use
> my left hand a lot and will pick something up with it if it is closer to
> my left hand than my right. Dr John was surprised at that but it is
> natural (there is that word again). I can also do mirror writing with my
> right hand.

... which clearly indicates that your experience does not reflect 
/typical/ human behaviour. :-P


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Driving et Physics Playground
Date: 15 Aug 2014 13:44:32
Message: <53ee4700@news.povray.org>
Am 15.08.2014 18:58, schrieb Le_Forgeron:
> On 15/08/2014 13:32, clipka wrote:
>> passing oncoming people to the right exposes your heart side to them
>
> And the other choice exposes the liver.
>
> Both are vital organs.
>
> Everything might be in the symbol you choose:
>   * Exposing your heart, and the side with the sword, as well as the
> shield on the left arm.
>   * Exposing your liver, and its bile.

No, it's not a matter of symbols in this case. The association of the 
left side with friendliness and the right side with rejection is a real 
effect confirmed by psychological studies, and the "heart side" thing is 
just a common explanation for why that might be so.

It might just as well be that a "non-heart-side stance" is simply a 
better choice when encountering someone you don't trust because the 
typically stronger right arm is better suited for fending off the other 
person.


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From: Jaime Vives Piqueres
Subject: Re: Driving et Physics Playground
Date: 15 Aug 2014 16:30:37
Message: <53ee6ded$1@news.povray.org>
El 15/08/14 a las #4, Stephen escribió:
> Posted both in p.b.misc
>

   Works great, thanks! The pose seems perfect, and fits perfectly
(miraculously, his head doesn't touch the roof).

>> Make it human for the moment, please... :)
>>
> Shucks! I want to do a green Alien lizard from outer space, driving
> the car.
>

   The interior would need a little customization to accommodate a
lizard, I guess... ;)

--
jaime


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Driving et Physics Playground
Date: 15 Aug 2014 17:35:24
Message: <53ee7d1c$1@news.povray.org>
On 15/08/2014 21:30, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> El 15/08/14 a las #4, Stephen escribió:
>> Posted both in p.b.misc
>>
>
>    Works great, thanks! The pose seems perfect, and fits perfectly
> (miraculously, his head doesn't touch the roof).
>

That's great. Normally I have difficulty importing props into Poser and 
getting the scale right. But the interior you created came in like a dream.
I had a bit of trouble with the feet. My first try made it look like 
Fred Flintstone's car. :-)



>>> Make it human for the moment, please... :)
>>>
>> Shucks! I want to do a green Alien lizard from outer space, driving
>> the car.
>>
>
>    The interior would need a little customization to accommodate a
> lizard, I guess... ;)
>
*A* lizard? The ones that I'm thinking of are small and about 6 of them 
fit inside a human body after eating the insides..
Nasty beasts. ;-)


-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Driving et Physics Playground
Date: 16 Aug 2014 04:53:16
Message: <53ef1bfc$1@news.povray.org>
On 15/08/2014 18:27, clipka wrote:
> Am 15.08.2014 18:41, schrieb Stephen:

>> Did the Supernatural Being of your choice tell you that? :-P
>
> No, the /Natural/ Being of my choice. Otherwise I surely would have said
> that it is more /supernatural/ ;-)
>
>

Sorry, I don't know the smiley for sarcasm. :-)


>> http://news.sciencemag.org/2009/08/why-we-walk-circles
>> http://sciencenetlinks.com/science-news/science-updates/walking-in-circles/
>>
>
> Note that this study has not much relationship with the issue at hand:

But I think it does or I would not have posted the links.

> The candidates' task was to walk as straight as possible with limited
> information; whether people tend to veer to the left or right in such a
> circumstance says nothing about whether they prefer to walk left or
> right turns when walking in a circle deliberately.
>

True but it shows that there is little bias to turn away from their 
strong leg.

> The tendency of people to prefer walking left turns over right turns has
> long been identified by /the/ one most motivated, well-funded and
> experienced branch of applied behavioural science of all: Marketing
> analysis. Shops are arranged on this basis, and it works.
>
>
Sources that it works? (and not psychobabble, please).
If shops had paths that wound to the right. I suspect that they would 
still sell things.
It sounds like juju to me. "Give me money and I will make you more mony 
than you now have."

>>> So from a psychological point of view, to
>>> an otherwise unbiased person it will come more natural to make U-turns
>>> to the left rather than to the right.
>>
>> :-O
>
> Yup. Fortunately for you people on the island, you're all being biased
> during driving lessons :-)
>

This is true as is the reverse.


>> * The one time I tried teaching my wife to drive. I suggested that she
>> steer and I would do the gear changes. I actually snapped the stick off
>> at the base (it was an old car) with my right hand then I had to drive
>> home myself in second gear.
>
> That may well be due to having no training whatsoever in shifting gears
> with the right hand.
>

No, it was just a very old car. :-)
Although at the time I had no experience of shifting a car's gears with 
my right hand. I did have experience of using similar controls with my 
right hand.

>> ** Having said that. It may be just me. I am not ambidextrous but I use
>> my left hand a lot and will pick something up with it if it is closer to
>> my left hand than my right. Dr John was surprised at that but it is
>> natural (there is that word again). I can also do mirror writing with my
>> right hand.
>
> .... which clearly indicates that your experience does not reflect
> /typical/ human behaviour. :-P
>

No need for the ":-P" it is true. That is why I mentioned it.

And before you or anyone else says it. I have often heard that I am 
weird. And I play on that.
I suspect that there are a few people on this newsgroup that have been 
been labelled weird or strange.
Last comment for now. To put your heart side forward is (to me) to stand 
square. Our hearts are in the centre of out chests.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Driving et Physics Playground
Date: 16 Aug 2014 04:53:25
Message: <53ef1c05$1@news.povray.org>
On 15/08/2014 18:44, clipka wrote:
> Am 15.08.2014 18:58, schrieb Le_Forgeron:
>> On 15/08/2014 13:32, clipka wrote:
>>> passing oncoming people to the right exposes your heart side to them
>>
>> And the other choice exposes the liver.
>>
>> Both are vital organs.
>>
>> Everything might be in the symbol you choose:
>>   * Exposing your heart, and the side with the sword, as well as the
>> shield on the left arm.
>>   * Exposing your liver, and its bile.
>
> No, it's not a matter of symbols in this case. The association of the
> left side with friendliness and the right side with rejection is a real
> effect confirmed by psychological studies,

Do you have any sources for that?

> and the "heart side" thing is
> just a common explanation for why that might be so.
>

I see the sense in that. People want/need a reason for things.

> It might just as well be that a "non-heart-side stance" is simply a
> better choice when encountering someone you don't trust because the
> typically stronger right arm is better suited for fending off the other
> person.
>

That makes sense to me too. Look at fighters, swordsmen lead with their 
dominant side unless they have a shield. Then that is the side they lead 
with. Boxers lead with their "shield" side for protection. If they lead 
with their right hand forward they have a special name, southpaw. In 
judo it is the opposite way. So I think that this has to do with the 
discipline.
In non fighting encounters. I have noticed that most people put their 
shaking hand forward.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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