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Hello,
I'm currently doing some simple animations for a friend who
will need to composite them with other video sources.
Do you know of any video format that preserves the alpha
channel of the rendered frames ? Or any other procedure
that will allow us to manage the transparency information
with the compositing software ?
Fabien.
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"Fabien Mosen" <fab### [at] skynet be> wrote in message
news:3e5ca2b6$1@news.povray.org...
> Hello,
> I'm currently doing some simple animations for a friend who
> will need to composite them with other video sources.
>
> Do you know of any video format that preserves the alpha
> channel of the rendered frames ? Or any other procedure
> that will allow us to manage the transparency information
> with the compositing software ?
See 6.7.1.5.3 Using the Alpha Channel in the docs. I've never actually used it, but
it seems
fairly clear.
Andy Cocker
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Fabien Mosen <fab### [at] skynetbe> wrote:
> Do you know of any video format that preserves the alpha
> channel of the rendered frames ? Or any other procedure
> that will allow us to manage the transparency information
> with the compositing software ?
I suppose that the best way would be to use the alpha-channeled png files
created by POV-Ray directly, if that's possible in the video compositing
software (ie. if it can read them automatically).
I haven't heard of any video format which supported alpha channel.
I wonder if some type of raw AVI could support them; never heard of one,
though.
--
plane{-x+y,-1pigment{bozo color_map{[0rgb x][1rgb x+y]}turbulence 1}}
sphere{0,2pigment{rgbt 1}interior{media{emission 1density{spherical
density_map{[0rgb 0][.5rgb<1,.5>][1rgb 1]}turbulence.9}}}scale
<1,1,3>hollow}text{ttf"timrom""Warp".1,0translate<-1,-.1,2>}// - Warp -
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Fabien Mosen wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I'm currently doing some simple animations for a friend who
> will need to composite them with other video sources.
>
> Do you know of any video format that preserves the alpha
> channel of the rendered frames ? Or any other procedure
> that will allow us to manage the transparency information
> with the compositing software ?
>
> Fabien.
It depends on what you're looking for exactly. I don't know of any
solution in a program or a video format but I'm going to work on some
bits of video that may include some sort of blue screen stuff. The best
I can think of is to do it in separate frames.
Remco
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Fabien Mosen wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I'm currently doing some simple animations for a friend who
> will need to composite them with other video sources.
>
> Do you know of any video format that preserves the alpha
> channel of the rendered frames ? Or any other procedure
> that will allow us to manage the transparency information
> with the compositing software ?
ULead VideoStudio (bundled with my ATI card) specifically mentions
in the help docs how to use a still or anim with alpha channel combined
with a video source. I have not used this feature.
dik
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In article <3e5cb6d0$1@news.povray.org> , "Andrew Cocker"
<mai### [at] andrewcockercouk> wrote:
>> Do you know of any video format that preserves the alpha
>> channel of the rendered frames ? Or any other procedure
>> that will allow us to manage the transparency information
>> with the compositing software ?
>
> See 6.7.1.5.3 Using the Alpha Channel in the docs. I've never actually
> used it, but it seems
> fairly clear.
It doesn't talk about video formats, does it? ;-)
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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in news:3e5ca2b6$1@news.povray.org Fabien Mosen wrote:
> Do you know of any video format that preserves the alpha
> channel of the rendered frames ?
Not realy a video format but have a look at MNG for animations.
http://www.libpng.org/pub/mng/
Ingo
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Remco de Korte wrote:
> It depends on what you're looking for exactly. I don't know of any
> solution in a program or a video format but I'm going to work on some
> bits of video that may include some sort of blue screen stuff. The best
> I can think of is to do it in separate frames.
Do you know if Adobe Premiere or After Effects can work with a set
of individual frames ? (that's what my friend uses, he's in a
multimedia-stuff school, doing a big project for the end of the
academic year).
(BTW, it would greatly help if POV-Ray was able to output the alpha
channel as separate grayscale frames, as it seems that it's what
commercial renderers do.)
Fabien.
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Fabien Mosen wrote:
>
> Remco de Korte wrote:
>
> > It depends on what you're looking for exactly. I don't know of any
> > solution in a program or a video format but I'm going to work on some
> > bits of video that may include some sort of blue screen stuff. The best
> > I can think of is to do it in separate frames.
>
> Do you know if Adobe Premiere or After Effects can work with a set
> of individual frames ? (that's what my friend uses, he's in a
> multimedia-stuff school, doing a big project for the end of the
> academic year).
>
> (BTW, it would greatly help if POV-Ray was able to output the alpha
> channel as separate grayscale frames, as it seems that it's what
> commercial renderers do.)
>
> Fabien.
Sorry, I have no idea about the programs you mention. I only know them
by name.
My solution will probably turn out to be some homewritten tool (or an
enhancement).
That way I can make it do exactly what I want and process any amount of
frames I'd need.
I'm supposed to be already working on it...
I'm also looking for some cheap (or free) editing program. I don't
really expect that to do the kind of thing I need (= blend live action
over a rendered background - probably...)
Remco
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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:3e5ce649@news.povray.org...
> In article <3e5cb6d0$1@news.povray.org> , "Andrew Cocker"
> <mai### [at] andrewcockercouk> wrote:
>
> >> Do you know of any video format that preserves the alpha
> >> channel of the rendered frames ? Or any other procedure
> >> that will allow us to manage the transparency information
> >> with the compositing software ?
> >
> > See 6.7.1.5.3 Using the Alpha Channel in the docs. I've never actually
> > used it, but it seems
> > fairly clear.
>
> It doesn't talk about video formats, does it? ;-)
No... :-(
Andy Cocker
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Fabien Mosen <fab### [at] skynetbe> wrote:
> (BTW, it would greatly help if POV-Ray was able to output the alpha
> channel as separate grayscale frames, as it seems that it's what
> commercial renderers do.)
That's odd and sounds cumbersome. (Or is some kind of odd principle they
have that they don't support png, period?)
--
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}// - Warp -
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:08:20 +0100, Fabien Mosen <fab### [at] skynetbe> wrote:
> (BTW, it would greatly help if POV-Ray was able to output the alpha
> channel as separate grayscale frames, as it seems that it's what
> commercial renderers do.)
The alpha channel is accessible in new post-processing stuff for MegaPOV (not
available yet). It is possible to output it to separate file using save_file
feature as well as use it as function for other effects. Also alpha channel can
be obtained from any of post-processes effects used in post-process queue.
follow-ups
ABX
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Remco de Korte <rem### [at] onwijscom> wrote in
news:3E5D3E1B.6CB45246@onwijs.com:
> I'm also looking for some cheap (or free) editing program. I don't
> really expect that to do the kind of thing I need (= blend live action
> over a rendered background - probably...)
>
> Remco
>
You may want to look at http://filmgimp.sourceforge.net/
It is open source and used professionally by the hollywood studios. The
Windows version is due to be released any day now.
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Tom Galvin wrote:
>
> Remco de Korte <rem### [at] onwijscom> wrote in
> news:3E5D3E1B.6CB45246@onwijs.com:
> > I'm also looking for some cheap (or free) editing program. I don't
> > really expect that to do the kind of thing I need (= blend live action
> > over a rendered background - probably...)
> >
> > Remco
> >
>
> You may want to look at http://filmgimp.sourceforge.net/
>
> It is open source and used professionally by the hollywood studios. The
> Windows version is due to be released any day now.
Thank you.
Remco
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:18:49 +0100, "Fabien Mosen"
<fab### [at] skynetbe> wrote:
>Do you know of any video format that preserves the alpha
>channel of the rendered frames ?
Hi Fabien,
I too was trying this recently - wasn't able to get it to work with
.avi files but could with Quicktime .mov files (although you'll need
to purchase Quicktime Pro ($30) to create .mov files)
Cheers,
Scott
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Warp wrote:
> Fabien Mosen <fab### [at] skynetbe> wrote:
>
>>(BTW, it would greatly help if POV-Ray was able to output the alpha
>>channel as separate grayscale frames, as it seems that it's what
>>commercial renderers do.)
>
>
> That's odd and sounds cumbersome.
So much ? In general, I would like to see POV-Ray being able to output
various information in the form of deep-grayscale images aside the
main rendering : alpha, normals, depth... It would allow easy
postprocessing with existing tools (even for stills). BTW, most
commercial renderers do that.
> (Or is some kind of odd principle the
> have that they don't support png, period?)
I don't think so. It might be simply that they are made to get
video as input, and not series of still frames. Again, commercial
renderers outputs animations as animations, not as series of stills.
Fabien.
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Animated GIF anyone?
(Excuse me while I kill myself laughing)
Andrew.
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Andrew Coppin <orp### [at] btinternetcom> wrote:
> Animated GIF anyone?
I didn't know GIFs support an alpha channel.
--
plane{-x+y,-1pigment{bozo color_map{[0rgb x][1rgb x+y]}turbulence 1}}
sphere{0,2pigment{rgbt 1}interior{media{emission 1density{spherical
density_map{[0rgb 0][.5rgb<1,.5>][1rgb 1]}turbulence.9}}}scale
<1,1,3>hollow}text{ttf"timrom""Warp".1,0translate<-1,-.1,2>}// - Warp -
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You've never heard of a transparent GIF??? OK, it only supports 1-bit alpha
(i.e., transparency = 100% or 0%, not in between). But you can animate it.
Wasn't really a "serious" suggestion ;-)
Andrew.
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> Or any other procedure
> that will allow us to manage the transparency information
> with the compositing software ?
Probably not the answer you're looking for but you
could render it with a blue or green screen. Compositing
software should have this available. Zei-Stein is
free and will do it:
http://www.thugsatbay.com/
--
Phil
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Andrew Coppin <orp### [at] btinternetcom> wrote:
> You've never heard of a transparent GIF??? OK, it only supports 1-bit alpha
> (i.e., transparency = 100% or 0%, not in between). But you can animate it.
GIF does not support an alpha channel.
You can define that one of the colors is (completely) transparent, but
that's not an alpha channel. An alpha channel means that every color,
besides having red, green and blue values, also has a fourth component,
the transparency (ie. alpha) value. That is, colors have four components
instead of three.
> Wasn't really a "serious" suggestion ;-)
I know. I just wanted to clear any misconceptions that might arise.
--
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}// - Warp -
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Andrew Coppin wrote:
>
> You've never heard of a transparent GIF??? OK, it only supports 1-bit alpha
> (i.e., transparency = 100% or 0%, not in between). But you can animate it.
>
> Wasn't really a "serious" suggestion ;-)
> Andrew.
The New GIF format has an alpha channel but it is still in beta.
Remco
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Phil Clute wrote:
> Probably not the answer you're looking for but you
> could render it with a blue or green screen.
We tried that, and it doesn't work well with transparent
areas...
Currently, we render with a black background and use
some additive compositing.
Fabien.
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