POV-Ray : Newsgroups : moray.win : Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11 Server Time
23 Jun 2024 13:04:21 EDT (-0400)
  Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11 (Message 11 to 20 of 41)  
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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11
Date: 27 May 2023 11:31:21
Message: <64722249$1@news.povray.org>
OK. At least I got /some/ Moray scenes to render in POV-Ray v3.5 now.

Still problems with POV-Ray v3.5 proper though...

-- 
Thomas


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11
Date: 27 May 2023 14:30:00
Message: <web.64724ab4cfce83799b4924336e066e29@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
> I have your answer about "exporting" to POV-Ray. Just click on the
> "Raytrace" button or F9. If the communication between Moray and POV-Ray
> v3.5 works correctly, this generates a POV scene file which then renders
> the image in POV-Ray. The scene file can of course be saved as a .pov scene.
>
> Even if everything seems to fail - as in my case (but see: *) - the test
> scene I had built in Moray was translated to POV-Ray code and stored in
> its "POVscn" folder.
>
> * While writing this I just got the whole thing to work! :-)
> Just a matter of correctly defining the folder destinations in Moray:
> use Alt+F9 or click the "Render Options" button

Yes, I see that Alt-F9 brings up the 'Render options' window. I didn't know
about that.

But I'm still having no luck exporting. *However*, I have not yet installed
POV-ray v3.5. (just v3.8.0 beta 1).

It appears that I am doing exactly what you suggest, but no luck. In Moray's
'Render' menu, I have tried both F9 and Ctrl-F9, but nothing happens and no SDL
file shows up in the "POVscn' folder.

I do understand that Moray only works 'in tandem' with v3.5 for *rendering*, so
I was not expecting an actual render to occur; but I was hoping that I could at
least export the scene as SDL, somehow.

My current trials are like this:
I open one of Moray's included .mdl demo scenes, like 'Swan' (I've also tried
'Coffeecup'.) Then, without changing anything in the scene or menus, I try
exporting with F9 or Ctrl-F9. Nothing. :-(  Of course, F9 is a RENDER button, so
I was not surprised by the error message that showed up, "Cannot start POV-ray.
Please start POV-ray manually and try again."

(BTW, in the 'Render options' window, I tried un-checking the 'Active Renderer'
box-- but it refuses to be un-checked. As if that has any meaning for the
problem!)

I am going to download POV v3.5, if it is still available on Github. I have the
suspicion that it is required, even for the export of a file. Otherwise, I have
no clue as to why the export feature is not working.


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11
Date: 28 May 2023 11:05:36
Message: <64736dc0$1@news.povray.org>
Op 27-5-2023 om 20:26 schreef Kenneth:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>>
>> I have your answer about "exporting" to POV-Ray. Just click on the
>> "Raytrace" button or F9. If the communication between Moray and POV-Ray
>> v3.5 works correctly, this generates a POV scene file which then renders
>> the image in POV-Ray. The scene file can of course be saved as a .pov scene.
>>
>> Even if everything seems to fail - as in my case (but see: *) - the test
>> scene I had built in Moray was translated to POV-Ray code and stored in
>> its "POVscn" folder.
>>
>> * While writing this I just got the whole thing to work! :-)
>> Just a matter of correctly defining the folder destinations in Moray:
>> use Alt+F9 or click the "Render Options" button
> 
> Yes, I see that Alt-F9 brings up the 'Render options' window. I didn't know
> about that.
> 
> But I'm still having no luck exporting. *However*, I have not yet installed
> POV-ray v3.5. (just v3.8.0 beta 1).
> 
It seems that the /special/ DLL provided by Moray to communicate with 
POV-Ray, only works with version 3.5. When you have installed POV-Ray 
v3.5 you can see at the top "GUI-Extensions" and within "Moray 
Communications DLL" which is probably installed there I guess, the first 
time you link both apps. Somehow, Moray is unable to link that DLL with 
a more recent version of POV-Ray.

> It appears that I am doing exactly what you suggest, but no luck. In Moray's
> 'Render' menu, I have tried both F9 and Ctrl-F9, but nothing happens and no SDL
> file shows up in the "POVscn' folder.
> 
It may be worthwhile to check the directory paths shown in the "Render 
Options" and maybe adapt those to your particular wishes...

> I do understand that Moray only works 'in tandem' with v3.5 for *rendering*, so
> I was not expecting an actual render to occur; but I was hoping that I could at
> least export the scene as SDL, somehow.
> 
I thought so too...

> My current trials are like this:
> I open one of Moray's included .mdl demo scenes, like 'Swan' (I've also tried
> 'Coffeecup'.) Then, without changing anything in the scene or menus, I try
> exporting with F9 or Ctrl-F9. Nothing. :-(  Of course, F9 is a RENDER button, so
> I was not surprised by the error message that showed up, "Cannot start POV-ray.
> Please start POV-ray manually and try again."
> 
In my case, POV-Ray v3.5 just freezes, and I have to crash-close it...

> (BTW, in the 'Render options' window, I tried un-checking the 'Active Renderer'
> box-- but it refuses to be un-checked. As if that has any meaning for the
> problem!)
> 
I am able to uncheck it but I don't know what is its use...

In any case, in most instances, either POV-Ray freezes, Moray cannot 
make contact, or nothing happens. In rare cases, a miracle occurs and a 
render is performed, typically with Moray files younger than about 2000. 
When a render occurs, I am unable to repeat a second render. In any 
case, I am unable to render any scene in POV-Ray v3.5 so there is much 
not working as it should (Windows problems with older apps?)

> I am going to download POV v3.5, if it is still available on Github. I have the
> suspicion that it is required, even for the export of a file. Otherwise, I have
> no clue as to why the export feature is not working.
> 
I am curious to learn your experiences.

-- 
Thomas


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11
Date: 28 May 2023 11:45:00
Message: <web.647375cdcfce83799b4924336e066e29@news.povray.org>
"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> I am going to download POV v3.5, if it is still available on Github.

Well, apparently it is no longer available for download there?? v3.7.0.0 is the
earliest version available. Unless I am looking in the wrong place...

https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/releases

> > [Thomas wrote:]
> > While writing this I just got the whole thing to work! :-)
> > Just a matter of correctly defining the folder destinations in Moray...

Here's something interesting: As an experiment, I changed Moray's default
library path for finding the POV-ray pvengine.exe file-- to my v3.7.0 install,
and also to v3.8.0 beta 1. (I chose the 32-bit versions of each in the POV 'bin'
folder).

Then in Moray's 'Render' menu, when I press either 'Raytrace' (F9) or 'Render',
POV-ray automatically starts up! But nothing is actually rendered, as expected--
Moray's render-image pane is black; nor does the Moray scene show up in POV-ray
as SDL.

It was worth a try though, just to see what would happen.


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11
Date: 28 May 2023 12:15:00
Message: <web.64737dddcfce83799b4924336e066e29@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> >
> It seems that the /special/ DLL provided by Moray to communicate with
> POV-Ray, only works with version 3.5. When you have installed POV-Ray
> v3.5 you can see at the top "GUI-Extensions" and within "Moray
> Communications DLL" which is probably installed there I guess, the first
> time you link both apps. Somehow, Moray is unable to link that DLL with
> a more recent version of POV-Ray.
>
 Aha! That's very interesting, and probably the most important clue to the
problem I'm having. Thanks for the info!

From my own tests with the changed library path, I was genuinely surprised that
Moray could even fire up POV-ray v3.7/3.8 automatically. So it does seem that
Moray is *trying* to make the 'tandem' connection with it...but something goes
wrong during the process.

Meanwhile, I hope I can find POV-ray v3.5 available somewhere...


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From: jr
Subject: Re: Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11
Date: 28 May 2023 12:40:00
Message: <web.64738395cfce8379b49d80446cde94f1@news.povray.org>
hi,

"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> Meanwhile, I hope I can find POV-ray v3.5 available somewhere...

if you can find someone to build it for you/your Windows machine, I have the
3.50c source to hand.


regards, jr.


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From: Bald Eagle
Subject: Re: Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11
Date: 28 May 2023 18:30:00
Message: <web.6473d56ccfce83791f9dae3025979125@news.povray.org>
"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> > >
> > It seems that the /special/ DLL provided by Moray to communicate with
> > POV-Ray, only works with version 3.5. When you have installed POV-Ray
> > v3.5 you can see at the top "GUI-Extensions" and within "Moray
> > Communications DLL" which is probably installed there I guess, the first
> > time you link both apps. Somehow, Moray is unable to link that DLL with
> > a more recent version of POV-Ray.
> >
>  Aha! That's very interesting, and probably the most important clue to the
> problem I'm having. Thanks for the info!
>
> From my own tests with the changed library path, I was genuinely surprised that
> Moray could even fire up POV-ray v3.7/3.8 automatically. So it does seem that
> Moray is *trying* to make the 'tandem' connection with it...but something goes
> wrong during the process.
>
> Meanwhile, I hope I can find POV-ray v3.5 available somewhere...

I'm guessing that since it was a sort of home-brew app, then maybe there's a lot
of stuff like filenames hard-coded into the Moray source.

Is there a way to run a decompiler or some other analysis software to see what
filename Moray is trying to find/execute?

I'm guessing that Moray somehow needs the editor to make the SDL file, and
that's why POV-Ray needs to be installed.

Perhaps fill a directory with all known POV-Ray editor and engine filename
permutations and see which one got accessed?

Maybe a later version can be renamed and placed into a 3.5 directory to see what
happens?

Just shooting in the dark here.


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11
Date: 29 May 2023 02:10:02
Message: <647441ba@news.povray.org>
Op 28/05/2023 om 18:14 schreef Kenneth:
> Meanwhile, I hope I can find POV-ray v3.5 available somewhere...
> 

It is available at the POV-Ray site itself:

https://www.povray.org/ftp/pub/povray/Old-Versions/Official-3.5/Windows/

:-)

-- 
Thomas


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11
Date: 29 May 2023 02:14:15
Message: <647442b7$1@news.povray.org>
Op 28/05/2023 om 17:39 schreef Kenneth:
> "Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>>
>> I am going to download POV v3.5, if it is still available on Github.
> 
> Well, apparently it is no longer available for download there?? v3.7.0.0 is the
> earliest version available. Unless I am looking in the wrong place...
> 
> https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/releases
> 
It is available at the official POV-Ray site:

https://www.povray.org/ftp/pub/povray/Old-Versions/Official-3.5/Windows/


> Here's something interesting: As an experiment, I changed Moray's default
> library path for finding the POV-ray pvengine.exe file-- to my v3.7.0 install,
> and also to v3.8.0 beta 1. (I chose the 32-bit versions of each in the POV 'bin'
> folder).
> 
> Then in Moray's 'Render' menu, when I press either 'Raytrace' (F9) or 'Render',
> POV-ray automatically starts up! But nothing is actually rendered, as expected--
> Moray's render-image pane is black; nor does the Moray scene show up in POV-ray
> as SDL.
> 
> It was worth a try though, just to see what would happen.
> 
Yes, I had the same happen to me indeed.

-- 
Thomas


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: Moray 3.5 and Pov-ray 3.5 both run on Windows 11
Date: 29 May 2023 10:25:00
Message: <web.6474b501cfce83799b4924336e066e29@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
> It is available at the POV-Ray site itself:
>
> https://www.povray.org/ftp/pub/povray/Old-Versions/Official-3.5/Windows/
>

Great! Many thanks. Just out of curiosity, is there an obvious or official link
to that page, somewhere in the newsgroups?

I wonder if there are even earlier versions available, tucked away in some
equally obscure(?) location.


[JR wrote:]
> if you can find someone to build it for you/your Windows machine, I have
> the 3.50c source to hand.

Thanks for the offer. Personally, I know next to nothing about compiling a
program for Windows. Or even what kind of older(?) tools and tricks that might
be required for compiling such 'ancient' v3.50 source code, ha.


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