Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> In Moray, something which seems to work *every* time(? fingers crossed)
> is using The "Export" option under the "Render" switch, alternatively
> Ctrl+F9 . This bypasses the use of POV-Ray v3.5 and writes the INC, INI,
> and POV group of files from the MDL scene to the POVScn folder. Do *not*
> use the "Export" option under the "File" switch!!
>
> Hope this works for you too. It would solve the present conundrum.
>

[Kenneth wrote:]
>
> I need to try out the 'proper' combination of Moray and POV v3.5, to
> see if that solves my 'export' problem.

Just to follow up: The combination of POV-ray v3.5, Moray v3.5 and Windows 10
shows some really weird and quirky behavior, some of which I discovered purely
by chance.

Assuming that the library paths are stated correctly in Moray's 'Render/Render
Options' dialog box...

1) The only way I can get Moray and POV v3.5 to work consistently together is to
start Moray first. After creating a scene there as an .mdl file, or loading one
of the demo .mdl scenes, I can then hit 'Render/Raytrace' (or F9), which
automatically starts POV 3.5 and renders the scene *in* POV. Great!  But this
works only once: POV-ray needs to be shut down after each Moray-to-POV render.
Otherwise, trying to re-render the Moray scene (or another one) while POV-ray is
still up and running causes POV to hang. It has to be shut down...which then
also causes Moray to hang.

But shutting down POV-ray after each render fixes that, and they both continue
to work together.

2) So far, trying to run POV v3.5 *by itself* in Windows 10 just doesn't work
for me. It loads OK, but trying to render a scene causes it to hang. (Perhaps
I'm not configuring it correctly?)

-------
The biggest quirk has to do with trying to export the Moray scene as an SDL
file-- for later rendering/editing-- by using Moray's 'Render'/'Export' button.
It DOES work, and the SDL/.pov scene file does get written into Moray's POVscn
folder-- but the Windows file explorer shows that folder to be empty! So does a
file search. This is a really strange Windows problem that I have not
encountered before--maybe a registry error due to Moray's very old code? The
only way I can 'see' the contents of that folder is from within POV-ray v3.5
(!), using the typical 'open file' menu. (The folder contents do NOT show up
when running v3.8 or v3.7.) They also appear from within Moray itself.
Otherwise, there seems to be no easy way to see or access those files... for me
at least.

The *workaround* is to open the exported SDL scene in POV-ray 3.5-- without
rendering it there-- then simply copy/paste it into a NEW  external text file or
..pov file, then save it.

In effect, POV v3.5 is now just a temporary 'relay station' for getting the
scene out of Moray and into a more modern version of POV-ray.

Post a reply to this message

Op 5-6-2023 om 09:42 schreef Kenneth:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> In Moray, something which seems to work *every* time(? fingers crossed)
>> is using The "Export" option under the "Render" switch, alternatively
>> Ctrl+F9 . This bypasses the use of POV-Ray v3.5 and writes the INC, INI,
>> and POV group of files from the MDL scene to the POVScn folder. Do *not*
>> use the "Export" option under the "File" switch!!
>>
>> Hope this works for you too. It would solve the present conundrum.
>>
> 
> [Kenneth wrote:]
>>
>> I need to try out the 'proper' combination of Moray and POV v3.5, to
>> see if that solves my 'export' problem.
> 
> Just to follow up: The combination of POV-ray v3.5, Moray v3.5 and Windows 10
> shows some really weird and quirky behavior, some of which I discovered purely
> by chance.
> 
Agreed.

> Assuming that the library paths are stated correctly in Moray's 'Render/Render
> Options' dialog box...
> 
> 1) The only way I can get Moray and POV v3.5 to work consistently together is to
> start Moray first. After creating a scene there as an .mdl file, or loading one
> of the demo .mdl scenes, I can then hit 'Render/Raytrace' (or F9), which
> automatically starts POV 3.5 and renders the scene *in* POV. Great!  But this
> works only once: POV-ray needs to be shut down after each Moray-to-POV render.
> Otherwise, trying to re-render the Moray scene (or another one) while POV-ray is
> still up and running causes POV to hang. It has to be shut down...which then
> also causes Moray to hang.
> 
Same here.

> But shutting down POV-ray after each render fixes that, and they both continue
> to work together.
> 
Same here.

> 2) So far, trying to run POV v3.5 *by itself* in Windows 10 just doesn't work
> for me. It loads OK, but trying to render a scene causes it to hang. (Perhaps
> I'm not configuring it correctly?)
> 
Same here.

> -------
> The biggest quirk has to do with trying to export the Moray scene as an SDL
> file-- for later rendering/editing-- by using Moray's 'Render'/'Export' button.
> It DOES work, and the SDL/.pov scene file does get written into Moray's POVscn
> folder-- but the Windows file explorer shows that folder to be empty! So does a
> file search. This is a really strange Windows problem that I have not
> encountered before--maybe a registry error due to Moray's very old code? The
> only way I can 'see' the contents of that folder is from within POV-ray v3.5
> (!), using the typical 'open file' menu. (The folder contents do NOT show up
> when running v3.8 or v3.7.) They also appear from within Moray itself.
> Otherwise, there seems to be no easy way to see or access those files... for me
> at least.
> 
I should probably say "Same here" again, although /simple/ scenes 
seem(?) to export correctly to the POVScn folder I defined. However, 
more complex scenes (for instance, containing a mesh) only export a 
header or nothing... So, not entirely reliable as I seemed to imply in 
my previous post.

> The *workaround* is to open the exported SDL scene in POV-ray 3.5-- without
> rendering it there-- then simply copy/paste it into a NEW  external text file or
> ..pov file, then save it.
> 
Yes, same here too.

> In effect, POV v3.5 is now just a temporary 'relay station' for getting the
> scene out of Moray and into a more modern version of POV-ray.
> 
That is also my conclusion. Why POV-Ray v3.5 refuses to behave correctly 
under Win10 (or Win11 for that matter) is a mystery to me. Otherwise, 
Moray seems to work correctly under both platforms.

I don't know about you Kenneth, but I think I shall leave it at that 
(other priorities are piling up). As always, It was a pleasure to do 
this testing in cooperation with you!

I shall probably use Moray once in a while just for old time's sake, and 
to not loose the feeling with it. I loved that program but it certainly 
needs a serious upgrade, but that is an entirely different story.

cheers!

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 5-6-2023 om 09:42 schreef Kenneth:
>
> > In effect, POV v3.5 is now just a temporary 'relay station' for getting the
> > scene out of Moray and into a more modern version of POV-ray.
> >
> That is also my conclusion. Why POV-Ray v3.5 refuses to behave correctly
> under Win10 (or Win11 for that matter) is a mystery to me. Otherwise,
> Moray seems to work correctly under both platforms.
>
> I don't know about you Kenneth, but I think I shall leave it at that
> (other priorities are piling up).

Agreed, sadly. The combination of quirks is rather cumbersome to deal with.
Although, it's nice to have at least *a* method now, to make everything work
together and to get a Moray scene to export.

> As always, It was a pleasure to do this testing in cooperation with you!

Same here!

---------
[Thomas wrote:]
> It seems that the /special/ DLL provided by Moray to communicate with
> POV-Ray, only works with version 3.5.

[Kenneth:]
> That gives me a rather crazy(?) idea for an experiment with POV-ray
> v3.7/3.8 and Windows 10 : I wonder if POV's v3.5 magical DLL(s) could
> be placed instead in the appropriate v3.7/3.8 folder location...then to
> see if Moray will recognize those DLL(s) *there*.

Well, THAT  was a silly idea. The magical DLL in question -- MorayCtrl.dll
("Moray Communications") -- is part of the Moray installation itself. I thought
it might be something that was included with POV-ray v3.5 instead.

I guess it's code would have to be re-written to work with later versions of
POV.

Post a reply to this message

"eric" <evo### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> It's a pleasure to annonce that Moray 3.5 and Povray 3.5 run on Windows 11. I
> don't know why but it works with Windows 11 .

Hi,

how did you do that? That's a miracle!

I tried to install Povray 3.5 (32 Bit version - no choice there) on Windows 10
(64 Bit Version). It installs, but refuses to render. Tried to use compatible
mode (for Windows XP). No go.

I did not try to install Moray 3.5 as I know if Povray doesn't work Moray will
neither.

Please let us know how you made it work.

Cheers, Droj

Post a reply to this message

Op 07/06/2023 om 01:16 schreef Droj:
> "eric" <evo### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> It's a pleasure to annonce that Moray 3.5 and Povray 3.5 run on Windows 11. I
>> don't know why but it works with Windows 11 .
> 
> Hi,
> 
> how did you do that? That's a miracle!
> 
> I tried to install Povray 3.5 (32 Bit version - no choice there) on Windows 10
> (64 Bit Version). It installs, but refuses to render. Tried to use compatible
> mode (for Windows XP). No go.
> 
> I did not try to install Moray 3.5 as I know if Povray doesn't work Moray will
> neither.
> 
> Please let us know how you made it work.
> 
> Cheers, Droj
> 
>

See the conversation between Kenneth and me in this same thread... :-)

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 07/06/2023 om 01:16 schreef Droj:
> > "eric" <evo### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >> It's a pleasure to annonce that Moray 3.5 and Povray 3.5 run on Windows 11. I
> >> don't know why but it works with Windows 11 .
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > how did you do that? That's a miracle!
> >
> > I tried to install Povray 3.5 (32 Bit version - no choice there) on Windows 10
> > (64 Bit Version). It installs, but refuses to render. Tried to use compatible
> > mode (for Windows XP). No go.
> >
> > I did not try to install Moray 3.5 as I know if Povray doesn't work Moray will
> > neither.
> >
> > Please let us know how you made it work.
> >
> > Cheers, Droj
> >
> >
>
> See the conversation between Kenneth and me in this same thread... :-)
>
> --
> Thomas

Sorry Thomas. I didn't want to get on your nerves.
I still have a Moray 3.5 and a Povray 3.5 running on Windows XP and an even
older version of both on Windows 2000.

So if you a request for a .mdl file or files I can easily send the Povray files.

Droj

Post a reply to this message

Op 7-6-2023 om 21:13 schreef Droj:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Op 07/06/2023 om 01:16 schreef Droj:
>>> "eric" <evo### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>>>> It's a pleasure to annonce that Moray 3.5 and Povray 3.5 run on Windows 11. I
>>>> don't know why but it works with Windows 11 .
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> how did you do that? That's a miracle!
>>>
>>> I tried to install Povray 3.5 (32 Bit version - no choice there) on Windows 10
>>> (64 Bit Version). It installs, but refuses to render. Tried to use compatible
>>> mode (for Windows XP). No go.
>>>
>>> I did not try to install Moray 3.5 as I know if Povray doesn't work Moray will
>>> neither.
>>>
>>> Please let us know how you made it work.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Droj
>>>
>>>
>>
>> See the conversation between Kenneth and me in this same thread... :-)
>>
>> --
>> Thomas
> 
> Sorry Thomas. I didn't want to get on your nerves.
> I still have a Moray 3.5 and a Povray 3.5 running on Windows XP and an even
> older version of both on Windows 2000.
> 
> So if you a request for a .mdl file or files I can easily send the Povray files.
> 
> Droj
> 
> 
Ha! thanks indeed, well appreciated! :-)

I have everything I need in my archives, all back to the nineties. I 
have not been using Moray or Moray-derived scenes for many years and 
switched gradually over to the combination Silo - Poseray - POV_Ray for 
most things I do. At the moment, Moray is mostly a "Memory Lane" visit.

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 7-6-2023 om 21:13 schreef Droj:
> > Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> >> Op 07/06/2023 om 01:16 schreef Droj:
> >>> "eric" <evo### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >>>> It's a pleasure to annonce that Moray 3.5 and Povray 3.5 run on Windows 11. I
> >>>> don't know why but it works with Windows 11 .
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> how did you do that? That's a miracle!
> >>>
> >>> I tried to install Povray 3.5 (32 Bit version - no choice there) on Windows 10
> >>> (64 Bit Version). It installs, but refuses to render. Tried to use compatible
> >>> mode (for Windows XP). No go.
> >>>
> >>> I did not try to install Moray 3.5 as I know if Povray doesn't work Moray will
> >>> neither.
> >>>
> >>> Please let us know how you made it work.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers, Droj
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> See the conversation between Kenneth and me in this same thread... :-)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thomas
> >
> > Sorry Thomas. I didn't want to get on your nerves.
> > I still have a Moray 3.5 and a Povray 3.5 running on Windows XP and an even
> > older version of both on Windows 2000.
> >
> > So if you a request for a .mdl file or files I can easily send the Povray files.
> >
> > Droj
> >
> >
> Ha! thanks indeed, well appreciated! :-)
>
> I have everything I need in my archives, all back to the nineties. I
> have not been using Moray or Moray-derived scenes for many years and
> switched gradually over to the combination Silo - Poseray - POV_Ray for
> most things I do. At the moment, Moray is mostly a "Memory Lane" visit.
>
> --
> Thomas

Good to hear that some people have a "Memory Lane"!
Thought I might be the only 'fossil' that visits that lane. (No offense meant)

Droj

Post a reply to this message

"Droj" <803### [at] drojde> wrote:

> Good to hear that some people have a "Memory Lane"!
> Thought I might be the only 'fossil' that visits that lane. (No offense meant)
>
> Droj

TdG is an old geologist - so I'm sure that "fossil" would be most apropos.  :D

- BE

Post a reply to this message

Op 09/06/2023 om 00:49 schreef Bald Eagle:
> "Droj" <803### [at] drojde> wrote:
> 
>> Good to hear that some people have a "Memory Lane"!
>> Thought I might be the only 'fossil' that visits that lane. (No offense meant)
>>
>> Droj
> 
> TdG is an old geologist - so I'm sure that "fossil" would be most apropos.  :D
> 
> - BE
> 
> 
LOL
I often feel like an Ediacaran survivor... (*)

(*) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ediacaran_biota

-- 
Thomas

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