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I'm frustrated. All I want is for Moray 3.5 to output code that'll operate
within spec for Povray 3.7. I simply can't get enough of Moray, and to
actually see the speed differences between Povray3.5 and the
multi-processor/core aware Povray3.7 is like touching a god's soul. ...
Okay, imagery aside, I'm just so pissed from trying to get Moray3.5 to
output code without the silly parse errors springing up like crickets in
the night. *sigh*
That's all I have to say. Better output to Povray. Obvious, but I wanted
to say it.
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Just out of curiosity, what is exactly the problem? If you try to render
directly from Moray to pov 3.7, yes, you are in deep trouble. On the other
hand, if you only export your Moray scene to Pov, then open pov 3.7 and
render the exported scene, you shouldn't have that many problems, imho.
Could you give us an example scene file to understand better?
Thomas
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Thomas de Groot <t.d### [at] inter nldotnet> wrote:
> If you try to render
> directly from Moray to pov 3.7, yes, you are in deep trouble.
Is this a problem with povray or with moray (do I remember correctly
that moray cannot properly call povray 3.6 either?).
If it's the latter, why isn't moray updated to work with all povray
versions between 3.5 and 3.7?
--
- Warp
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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> schreef in bericht
news:45a8b6de@news.povray.org...
> Thomas de Groot <t.d### [at] internldotnet> wrote:
>> If you try to render
>> directly from Moray to pov 3.7, yes, you are in deep trouble.
>
> Is this a problem with povray or with moray (do I remember correctly
> that moray cannot properly call povray 3.6 either?).
>
> If it's the latter, why isn't moray updated to work with all povray
> versions between 3.5 and 3.7?
>
The problem has indeed started with the release of POV-Ray version 3.6.
Unfortunately, Lutz has never updated Moray to work properly with POV-Ray
versions higher than 3.5. Real Life you know, as fas as I understand.....
:-(
Thomas
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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> "Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> schreef in bericht
> news:45a8b6de@news.povray.org...
> > Thomas de Groot <t.d### [at] internldotnet> wrote:
> >> If you try to render
> >> directly from Moray to pov 3.7, yes, you are in deep trouble.
> >
> > Is this a problem with povray or with moray (do I remember correctly
> > that moray cannot properly call povray 3.6 either?).
> >
> > If it's the latter, why isn't moray updated to work with all povray
> > versions between 3.5 and 3.7?
> >
>
> The problem has indeed started with the release of POV-Ray version 3.6.
> Unfortunately, Lutz has never updated Moray to work properly with POV-Ray
> versions higher than 3.5. Real Life you know, as fas as I understand.....
> :-(
>
> Thomas
Yes, that's what they say ("they" being the higher lifeforms who are in
charge of watching the life-living habits of people everywhere). This is a
perfect example of making Moray OSS. Something Lutz wants to hear? Of
course not, but if no development work is being done on Moray, and hasn't
been done for years, it just amounts to a dead project. Money can't be a
concern, considering it's shareware, so if real life is seriously that much
in the way, why not simply become principle developer and let everyone else
do the grunt work? I mean, its not like there wouldn't be anyone willing
to pick it up...
Nonetheless, Lutz rules, but its becoming a token praise.
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"Lawrence W" <lwi### [at] daktelcom> schreef in bericht
news:web.45ac669827a5e58463b265170@news.povray.org...
>
> Yes, that's what they say ("they" being the higher lifeforms who are in
> charge of watching the life-living habits of people everywhere). This is
> a
> perfect example of making Moray OSS. Something Lutz wants to hear? Of
> course not, but if no development work is being done on Moray, and hasn't
> been done for years, it just amounts to a dead project. Money can't be a
> concern, considering it's shareware, so if real life is seriously that
> much
> in the way, why not simply become principle developer and let everyone
> else
> do the grunt work? I mean, its not like there wouldn't be anyone willing
> to pick it up...
>
> Nonetheless, Lutz rules, but its becoming a token praise.
>
>
<sigh>
Yes, I agree...
I would have prefered a working update with pov version 3.6 (and 3.7)
instead of all the beta work around a better mesh modeller inside Moray (or
so I have understood the development). There are (and were) excellent mesh
modellers available, so, imo, Moray does not need really it. It is far more
powerful in other domains, not in the least in the plugin interface, that I
would like to see developed in the same manner/philosophy as Leveller.
<sigh again>
Thomas
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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
>
> <sigh>
> Yes, I agree...
> I would have prefered a working update with pov version 3.6 (and 3.7)
> instead of all the beta work around a better mesh modeller inside Moray (or
> so I have understood the development). There are (and were) excellent mesh
> modellers available, so, imo, Moray does not need really it. It is far more
> powerful in other domains, not in the least in the plugin interface, that I
> would like to see developed in the same manner/philosophy as Leveller.
> <sigh again>
>
> Thomas
I agree too. Creating meshes from a csg then being able to subdivide it is a
nice feature but working with a version of Pov from 2004 is a pain. Even
making the Moray 3.5 features work with Pov 3.6 would be more useful than
mesh editing.
One feature from Hugo Arnaut’s Bishop3D that is really good is the ability
to import Pov SDL. It has limitations but it is developing well.
Stephen
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"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht
news:web.45ac9b7a27a5e584f1cb1e660@news.povray.org...
>
> I agree too. Creating meshes from a csg then being able to subdivide it is
> a
> nice feature but working with a version of Pov from 2004 is a pain. Even
> making the Moray 3.5 features work with Pov 3.6 would be more useful than
> mesh editing.
> One feature from Hugo Arnaut's Bishop3D that is really good is the ability
> to import Pov SDL. It has limitations but it is developing well.
>
>
Now that you mention it, I believe that the conversion from CSG to mesh is a
useful item in itself, but then I prefer to export the result and work
further in Silo with that. It works not so well with Wings however, because
the conversion is not that perfect and a lot of transparant faces are
created, but Silo manages quite well.
Bisho3D looks interesting. I have not experimented with it, though.
Thomas
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On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:40:27 +0100, "Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet>
wrote:
>
>Now that you mention it, I believe that the conversion from CSG to mesh is a
>useful item in itself, but then I prefer to export the result and work
>further in Silo with that. It works not so well with Wings however, because
>the conversion is not that perfect and a lot of transparant faces are
>created, but Silo manages quite well.
I've not used a mesh modeller for ages, relying on csg mostly. Although I do
have a need for one to modify some Poser clothes.
>Bisho3D looks interesting. I have not experimented with it, though.
It is interesting and I think that it will be quite useful when it's finished.
I've lost my muse so I've got time to test, it not needing to worry about having
a project to complete. I've nearly finished a model (a prop) of the London Eye.
It has a different feel to Moray even though the layout looks similar. Besides
being able to import a lot of SDL and allowing you to write SDL to be merged
with the scene as objects or textures. I like the animation feature where I
could not get to grips with Moray's.
Regards
Stephen
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Hi Lawrence W, you recently wrote in moray.win:
> I'm frustrated. All I want is for Moray 3.5 to output code that'll operate
> within spec for Povray 3.7. I simply can't get enough of Moray, and to
> actually see the speed differences between Povray3.5 and the
> multi-processor/core aware Povray3.7 is like touching a god's soul. ...
> Okay, imagery aside, I'm just so pissed from trying to get Moray3.5 to
> output code without the silly parse errors springing up like crickets in
> the night. *sigh*
>
> That's all I have to say. Better output to Povray. Obvious, but I wanted
> to say it.
I understand the frustrations expressed by the posters in this thread,
I am not oblivious to them. And it pains me to have had Moray come to
a standstill too....
I still did not see any specific problems listed that POV-Ray 3.7 has
with the output from Moray V3.5. Unfortunately, I haven't kept up with
POV-Ray development, but are POV-Ray V3.7 scene files not compatible
with POV-Ray V3.5 scene files?
- Lutz
- Lutz
email : lut### [at] stmuccom
Web : http://www.stmuc.com/moray
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"Stephen" <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> schreef in bericht
news:iacqq2hrdh1gbd29ie4ggmgs2da1qkogr0@4ax.com...
>
> I've not used a mesh modeller for ages, relying on csg mostly. Although I
> do
> have a need for one to modify some Poser clothes.
Have you considered the Cloth Designer add-ons by PhilC, for Poser? Not free
stuff unfortunately but not too expensive either. I have decided to buy it a
little time ago but have not had yet time to really experiment with it.
looks promising however.
>
>>Bisho3D looks interesting. I have not experimented with it, though.
>
> It is interesting and I think that it will be quite useful when it's
> finished.
> I've lost my muse so I've got time to test, it not needing to worry about
> having
> a project to complete. I've nearly finished a model (a prop) of the London
> Eye.
> It has a different feel to Moray even though the layout looks similar.
> Besides
> being able to import a lot of SDL and allowing you to write SDL to be
> merged
> with the scene as objects or textures. I like the animation feature where
> I
> could not get to grips with Moray's.
>
I shall keep an eye on that certainly. Something for later. I have too much
to start up and get into presently, and a number of projects I want to
complete.
Thomas
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"Lutz Kretzschmar" <lut### [at] stmuccom> schreef in bericht
news:23uqq255ghiao8sdd0l44mt6mts27j8aeb@4ax.com...
>
> I understand the frustrations expressed by the posters in this thread,
> I am not oblivious to them. And it pains me to have had Moray come to
> a standstill too....
>
> I still did not see any specific problems listed that POV-Ray 3.7 has
> with the output from Moray V3.5. Unfortunately, I haven't kept up with
> POV-Ray development, but are POV-Ray V3.7 scene files not compatible
> with POV-Ray V3.5 scene files?
>
Hi Lutz! Good to hear from you!
As far as I am aware of, there are no major compatibility issues as far as
scene files are concerned. My (older) scenes seem to run successfully under
V3.7. The main issue most people are complaining about is the impossibility
to run Moray trouble free with V3.6, and eventually with V3.7, especially
for the gain of render time when using a dual core machine.
Hope all is well with you?
And.... may we have a little hope about future Moray updates? :-)
Thomas
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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> "Stephen" <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> schreef in bericht
> news:iacqq2hrdh1gbd29ie4ggmgs2da1qkogr0@4ax.com...
> >
> > I've not used a mesh modeller for ages, relying on csg mostly. Although I
> > do
> > have a need for one to modify some Poser clothes.
>
> Have you considered the Cloth Designer add-ons by PhilC, for Poser? Not free
> stuff unfortunately but not too expensive either. I have decided to buy it a
> little time ago but have not had yet time to really experiment with it.
> looks promising however.
I had a quick look yesterday after your post. It looked attractive but I’m a
bit wary of paying for things over the Internet. (Not to mention that I’m a
wee FREE man :-)
You have raised my interest and I’ll give it a more thorough look.
> >
> >>Bisho3D looks interesting. I have not experimented with it, though.
> >
> > It is interesting and I think that it will be quite useful when it's
> > finished.
> > I've lost my muse so I've got time to test, it not needing to worry about
> > having
> > a project to complete. I've nearly finished a model (a prop) of the London
> > Eye.
> > It has a different feel to Moray even though the layout looks similar.
> > Besides
> > being able to import a lot of SDL and allowing you to write SDL to be
> > merged
> > with the scene as objects or textures. I like the animation feature where
> > I
> > could not get to grips with Moray's.
> >
> I shall keep an eye on that certainly. Something for later. I have too much
> to start up and get into presently, and a number of projects I want to
> complete.
>
I understand, there is little chance of getting projects completed during
testing.
Stephen
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"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht
news:web.45adf3cb27a5e584f1cb1e660@news.povray.org...
>
> I had a quick look yesterday after your post. It looked attractive but I'm
> a
> bit wary of paying for things over the Internet. (Not to mention that I'm
> a
> wee FREE man :-)
> You have raised my interest and I'll give it a more thorough look.
>
Yes, I am a bit wary too. However, I must say that I have never had a
problem so far, over the years.
>>
> I understand, there is little chance of getting projects completed during
> testing.
>
<g> difficult to do several things at the same time... :-)
Thomas
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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> "Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht
> news:web.45adf3cb27a5e584f1cb1e660@news.povray.org...
> >
> > I had a quick look yesterday after your post. It looked attractive but I'm
> > a
> > bit wary of paying for things over the Internet. (Not to mention that I'm
> > a
> > wee FREE man :-)
> > You have raised my interest and I'll give it a more thorough look.
> >
> Yes, I am a bit wary too. However, I must say that I have never had a
> problem so far, over the years.
>
Nor have I but maybe that is because I only buy from recognised shops and
organisations (Moray was an exception).
> >>
> > I understand, there is little chance of getting projects completed during
> > testing.
> >
> <g> difficult to do several things at the same time... :-)
>
I need a dual brain head :-)
Stephen
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"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht
news:web.45ae362b27a5e584f1cb1e660@news.povray.org...
>
> I need a dual brain head :-)
>
You have already! Two hemispheres, remember? :-)
Thomas
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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> "Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht
> news:web.45ae362b27a5e584f1cb1e660@news.povray.org...
> >
> > I need a dual brain head :-)
> >
> You have already! Two hemispheres, remember? :-)
>
> Thomas
What do you know? I’ve just been upgraded. Too bad I’m still using the
software (wetware) from my hindbrain.
Stephen
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"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht
news:web.45af2fa927a5e584f1cb1e660@news.povray.org...
>
> What do you know? I've just been upgraded. Too bad I'm still using the
> software (wetware) from my hindbrain.
>
Aah! That explains it! You need a new wifi connection! Then all three brains
will communicate!!
Thomas
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Lutz Kretzschmar <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote:
> Hi Lawrence W, you recently wrote in moray.win:
>
> > I'm frustrated. All I want is for Moray 3.5 to output code that'll operate
> > within spec for Povray 3.7. I simply can't get enough of Moray, and to
> > actually see the speed differences between Povray3.5 and the
> > multi-processor/core aware Povray3.7 is like touching a god's soul. ...
> > Okay, imagery aside, I'm just so pissed from trying to get Moray3.5 to
> > output code without the silly parse errors springing up like crickets in
> > the night. *sigh*
> >
> > That's all I have to say. Better output to Povray. Obvious, but I wanted
> > to say it.
>
> I understand the frustrations expressed by the posters in this thread,
> I am not oblivious to them. And it pains me to have had Moray come to
> a standstill too....
>
> I still did not see any specific problems listed that POV-Ray 3.7 has
> with the output from Moray V3.5. Unfortunately, I haven't kept up with
> POV-Ray development, but are POV-Ray V3.7 scene files not compatible
> with POV-Ray V3.5 scene files?
>
> - Lutz
> - Lutz
> email : lut### [at] stmuccom
> Web : http://www.stmuc.com/moray
Lutz,
I'm glad I caught your attention. I swear, I should just e-mail you
directly... Anyway, my issue is with the POVTXTR2.INI file that gets
created when rendering to POV-Ray. I've had two specific problems parsing
that file from within POV-Ray 3.6/3.7: radiosity keyword and (I think) a
buffer keyword. I could be off; I'll have to check my records, but either
way there are parsing errors and are generated any time I try to render a
scene from Moray. I can get around them if I modify the POVTXTR2.INI file
outside of Moray, but then that defeats the purpose, and besides, as soon
as I work on the mdl again, the problem pops up.
If that's not clear, let me know and I'll reinstall POV-Ray 3.7 and post the
exact messages. Thanks a bunch, seriously.
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Hi Lawrence W, you recently wrote in moray.win:
> I'm glad I caught your attention. I swear, I should just e-mail you
> directly...
That would elicit a quicker response....
> Anyway, my issue is with the POVTXTR2.INI file that gets
> created when rendering to POV-Ray. I've had two specific problems parsing
> that file from within POV-Ray 3.6/3.7: radiosity keyword and (I think) a
> buffer keyword.
Check whether this is from the section that is imported from
POVTXTR.INI.
> I'll have to check my records ....
> If that's not clear, let me know and I'll reinstall POV-Ray 3.7 and post the
> exact messages.
Yes, please do. This is the first I've heard of this, so it seems to
be isolated to your installation.
- Lutz
email : lut### [at] stmuccom
Web : http://www.stmuc.com/moray
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"Lutz Kretzschmar" <lut### [at] stmuccom> schreef in bericht
news:q0ebr25jl2qmjdv43ea9fl70ttigdrks9v@4ax.com...
> Yes, please do. This is the first I've heard of this, so it seems to
> be isolated to your installation.
>
Hm.... don't be so sure about that.
As far as I know from this ng, everybody (?) has trouble running Moray with
POV-Ray 3.6 (and I suppose 3.7). The general consensus most heard is still
to run Moray with POV-Ray 3.5......
Thomas
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Thomas de Groot schrieb:
> "Lutz Kretzschmar" <lut### [at] stmuccom> schreef in bericht
> news:q0ebr25jl2qmjdv43ea9fl70ttigdrks9v@4ax.com...
>> Yes, please do. This is the first I've heard of this, so it seems to
>> be isolated to your installation.
>>
>
> Hm.... don't be so sure about that.
>
> As far as I know from this ng, everybody (?) has trouble running Moray with
> POV-Ray 3.6 (and I suppose 3.7). The general consensus most heard is still
> to run Moray with POV-Ray 3.5......
>
> Thomas
>
>
I have both (4) installed, pov 3.5 + megapov & Pov3.6 + megapov. There
are some compatibility problems but nothing that i would be so
frustrated of not to use it.(Argl, what a sentence)
However I've not tried Pov3.7 yet. But Pov 3.6 / Megapov 1.2 is working
more than o.k. for me.
Greets
Arne
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"Arne Kleinophorst" <kle### [at] spamdebitelnet> schreef in bericht
news:45b5cad3$1@news.povray.org...
>>
>
> I have both (4) installed, pov 3.5 + megapov & Pov3.6 + megapov. There are
> some compatibility problems but nothing that i would be so frustrated of
> not to use it.(Argl, what a sentence)
>
> However I've not tried Pov3.7 yet. But Pov 3.6 / Megapov 1.2 is working
> more than o.k. for me.
>
Well, one of the things that makes Moray and POV-Ray crash (when using
POV-Ray 3.6), is the material preview.
Thomas
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Thomas de Groot schrieb:
>
>
> Well, one of the things that makes Moray and POV-Ray crash (when using
> POV-Ray 3.6), is the material preview.
>
> Thomas
>
>
So maybe Megapov is more compatible than Povray? I've never thought
about that.
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"Arne Kleinophorst" <kle### [at] spamdebitelnet> schreef in bericht
news:45b5d992@news.povray.org...
>>
> So maybe Megapov is more compatible than Povray? I've never thought about
> that.
>
That is an interesting idea!! I have not yet tried that....
As soon as my current scenes have finished rendering today, I shall test
Moray with megapov 1.2.1.... Who knows...
Thomas
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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: For the wishlist... Error while trying to render through POV-Ray 3.6 or Megapov 1.2.1.
Date: 23 Jan 2007 10:16:14
Message: <45b626be@news.povray.org>
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"Arne Kleinophorst" <kle### [at] spamdebitelnet> schreef in bericht
news:45b5d992@news.povray.org...
>>
> So maybe Megapov is more compatible than Povray? I've never thought about
> that.
>
No way. I tried rendering a material with megapov 1.2.1, but Moray and
POV-Ray froze up in the same way.
Message given: : An unexpected error occurred while trying to make POV-Ray
render the material. (code 3)"
Thomas
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Hi Thomas de Groot, you recently wrote in moray.win:
>
> "Lutz Kretzschmar" <lut### [at] stmuccom> schreef in bericht
> news:q0ebr25jl2qmjdv43ea9fl70ttigdrks9v@4ax.com...
> > Yes, please do. This is the first I've heard of this, so it seems to
> > be isolated to your installation.
> >
>
> Hm.... don't be so sure about that.
I am sure that I have never heard of there being rendering problems
related to POV-Ray parsing an exported scene.
I have heard (and reproduced the behaviour) that Moray V3.5 and
POV-Ray V3.6 (and later) cause the rendering to hang sporadically (or
more often :-)). I even tried to find the cause some time ago,
unfortunately, I was unsuccessful, probably due to the Heisenberg
Uncertainty Principle :-). As soon as I added tracing, I could not get
it to hang. This most likely means some kind of threading issue or
race condition is happening. Maybe POV-Ray 3.6 uses multiple threads
in a different way than earlier versions.
- Lutz
email : lut### [at] stmuccom
Web : http://www.stmuc.com/moray
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"Lutz Kretzschmar" <lut### [at] stmuccom> schreef in bericht
news:11igr2tn997rnnahlee54j6uji988q2ejl@4ax.com...
> I am sure that I have never heard of there being rendering problems
> related to POV-Ray parsing an exported scene.
>
> I have heard (and reproduced the behaviour) that Moray V3.5 and
> POV-Ray V3.6 (and later) cause the rendering to hang sporadically (or
> more often :-)). I even tried to find the cause some time ago,
> unfortunately, I was unsuccessful, probably due to the Heisenberg
> Uncertainty Principle :-). As soon as I added tracing, I could not get
> it to hang. This most likely means some kind of threading issue or
> race condition is happening. Maybe POV-Ray 3.6 uses multiple threads
> in a different way than earlier versions.
>
The problem seems to be in the communication between Moray and POV-Ray 3.6.
As you say, I remember that very early on you did try to solve the problem
but could not find the glitch.
Maybe it would be valuable to make again a list of the specific problems
happening. I wonder now if everybody who has met with some problem, have met
with the same ones?
As mentioned in a thread above, my main problem is with the render of a
material preview. Both Moray and POV-Ray freeze, with message "An unexpected
error occurred while trying to make POV-Ray render the material. (code 3)".
This behaviour is... not consequent :-(
I have now also have the case where a (simple) material is rendered the
first time, but next is not, POV-Ray telling me that "A render has completed
but file output was turned off. No file was written. Press F1 for help on
output file control.". After clicking OK, * something* finishes. However,
if I try to render the material again, Moray closes down abruptly and
Windows asks me if I want to register a bug.
So far, what I have met with now....
Thomas
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Lutz Kretzschmar <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote:
> Hi Thomas de Groot, you recently wrote in moray.win:
>
> >
> > "Lutz Kretzschmar" <lut### [at] stmuccom> schreef in bericht
> > news:q0ebr25jl2qmjdv43ea9fl70ttigdrks9v@4ax.com...
> > > Yes, please do. This is the first I've heard of this, so it seems to
> > > be isolated to your installation.
> > >
> >
> > Hm.... don't be so sure about that.
> I am sure that I have never heard of there being rendering problems
> related to POV-Ray parsing an exported scene.
>
> I have heard (and reproduced the behaviour) that Moray V3.5 and
> POV-Ray V3.6 (and later) cause the rendering to hang sporadically (or
> more often :-)). I even tried to find the cause some time ago,
> unfortunately, I was unsuccessful, probably due to the Heisenberg
> Uncertainty Principle :-). As soon as I added tracing, I could not get
> it to hang. This most likely means some kind of threading issue or
> race condition is happening. Maybe POV-Ray 3.6 uses multiple threads
> in a different way than earlier versions.
>
> - Lutz
> email : lut### [at] stmuccom
> Web : http://www.stmuc.com/moray
I found that with moray 3.5 and povray 3.6 on win 98 , Moray is unable to
stop povray. If I start a second render before the first has stopped Povray
will hang and even needs to be reinstalled.
I don’t know if this helps you to determine the cause of your problem. As it
works just fine on windows XP.
Napivo
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