Hi.

I've noticed that Lutz Kretzschmar is writing/reding in this group.

Guy, do you have too much time hu? ;-)

So I would like to start a feature-wish-list...

Beginning with me:
- the animation Plugin! (only want to mention it here...)
- Object Libraries
- possibility to place one object several times in the image... when you
change the source-object, all others will be changed. This could be memory-
and rendering-time-sparing
- Direct 3d or OpenGL preview (less important but nice)
- more releases with fever changes instead of fewer releases with more
changes
-[your features here?]

BTW: Why takes the animation plugin so much time? It would be enough for me
if the translation/scale/rotation fields would be replaced by a formular
editor/parser and a possibiliy to adjust the clock...
Creating the exact formulas might be the work of other plugins...

Just a suggestion... Perhaps it's more complicated as I can imagine...

Gevatta

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Gev### [at] jpberlinde wrote:

> Hi.
>
> I've noticed that Lutz Kretzschmar is writing/reding in this group.
>
> Guy, do you have too much time hu? ;-)
>
> So I would like to start a feature-wish-list...
>
> Beginning with me:
> - the animation Plugin! (only want to mention it here...)
> - Object Libraries
> - possibility to place one object several times in the image... when you
> change the source-object, all others will be changed. This could be memory-
> and rendering-time-sparing
> - Direct 3d or OpenGL preview (less important but nice)
> - more releases with fever changes instead of fewer releases with more
> changes
> -[your features here?]
>

My Wish list...
1.  an Isosurface plugin for the Super patch version of povray
2.  A plugin that would communicate with the 3ds2Pov program
3.  maybe support for the cylindrical lights, triangles, prism, polygon, and
polynomials...
4.  (Anyone else?)

>
> BTW: Why takes the animation plugin so much time? It would be enough for me
> if the translation/scale/rotation fields would be replaced by a formular
> editor/parser and a possibiliy to adjust the clock...
> Creating the exact formulas might be the work of other plugins...
>
> Just a suggestion... Perhaps it's more complicated as I can imagine...
>
> Gevatta

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Psychomek wrote:

> Gev### [at] jpberlinde wrote:
>
> > Hi.
> >
> > I've noticed that Lutz Kretzschmar is writing/reding in this group.
> >
> > Guy, do you have too much time hu? ;-)
> >
> > So I would like to start a feature-wish-list...
> >
> > Beginning with me:
> > - the animation Plugin! (only want to mention it here...)
> > - Object Libraries
> > - possibility to place one object several times in the image... when you
> > change the source-object, all others will be changed. This could be memory-
> > and rendering-time-sparing
> > - Direct 3d or OpenGL preview (less important but nice)
> > - more releases with fever changes instead of fewer releases with more
> > changes
> > -[your features here?]
> >
>
> My Wish list...
> 1.  an Isosurface plugin for the Super patch version of povray
> 2.  A plugin that would communicate with the 3ds2Pov program
> 3.  maybe support for the cylindrical lights, triangles, prism, polygon, and
> polynomials...

You can do that with a UDO/INC pair, AFAIK...

> 4.  (Anyone else?)

1. An BMRT export plugin(For all those potential plugin writers out there, you
can easily use this to make it:http://www.affine.com/
It doesn't need to support anything that Moray doesn't. If you can somehow export
the textures as shaders, that'd kick ass, but is most definitely not needed.
2. See number one.
3. See number 2.
4. See number 3.
5. Can you guess?


>
>
> >
> > BTW: Why takes the animation plugin so much time? It would be enough for me
> > if the translation/scale/rotation fields would be replaced by a formular
> > editor/parser and a possibiliy to adjust the clock...
> > Creating the exact formulas might be the work of other plugins...
> >
> > Just a suggestion... Perhaps it's more complicated as I can imagine...
> >
> > Gevatta



--
The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.

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Gev### [at] jpberlinde wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> ...
> 
> BTW: Why takes the animation plugin so much time? It would be enough for me
> if the translation/scale/rotation fields would be replaced by a formular

Because In order to get it working properly I've had to ask Lutz to make
quite a few modifications to Moray and it's plugin interface.  Each
round trip involves describing the problem, trying a fix, fixing the
fix, finding a new problem.

Although you could describe the t/s/r fields with a formula, how would
you describe the characteristics of the animation itself?  [e.g.,
start/stop time, FPS] - remember that Moray has no notion of time.  How
do you control the renderer from within the plugin (it turns out to be
difficult to determine when POV-Ray is done rendering a frame).  How do
you tell Moray when to use a formula and when to use a value from the
dialog.

Xander

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> - possibility to place one object several times in the image... when you
> change the source-object, all others will be changed. This could be memory-
> and rendering-time-sparing

There are a form of this. Use the duplicator to duplicate a few objects
and move those where you want them but don't move the original ever
again! If you do, the other will move in the same direction (if I
remember correctly), if you rotate, the other object will do it too, and
this can do some serious damage to the scene... (Nothing an <undo> can't
handle though)

/Björn Magnusson

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Alexander Enzmann wrote:

> > BTW: Why takes the animation plugin so much time? It would be enough for me
> > if the translation/scale/rotation fields would be replaced by a formular

> Although you could describe the t/s/r fields with a formula, how would
> you describe the characteristics of the animation itself?  [e.g.,
> start/stop time, FPS] - remember that Moray has no notion of time.  How
> do you control the renderer from within the plugin (it turns out to be
> difficult to determine when POV-Ray is done rendering a frame).  

Hm. Perhaps thats not a plug-in task, more a modification to moray itself,
but you may add parameters to the formula. Like this:
[Startframe,Endframe]k*45[SF,EF]k*(-45)

Perhaps it would be possible to change the clock by an Include-File...?

> How do you tell Moray when to use a formula and when to use a value from the
> dialog.

The "formulas" may replace the old dialogs. If there's a fixed value, you
don't need to calculate anything [the dialogs are the same as before],
otherviseyou need to find out, wich clock is given an wich part of the
"formula" is to be calculated...

[only wantig to give some suggestions, not making the programmers angry...]
Gevatta

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Gev### [at] jpberlinde wrote:
: - possibility to place one object several times in the image... when you
: change the source-object, all others will be changed. This could be memory-
: and rendering-time-sparing

  Doesn't copying an object do just this?

  My suggestion is that a scripting language (perhaps similar to povray's)
should be added. That should cover most of the requests anybody has and would
remove all the limits moray has.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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>   Doesn't copying an object do just this?
You mean duplicate->reference. Just copying makes another independant
object.
 
>   My suggestion is that a scripting language (perhaps similar to povray's)
> should be added. That should cover most of the requests anybody has and would
> remove all the limits moray has.
Why similar to pov-ray, why not the same?

ZK

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Hi Gev### [at] jpberlinde, you recently wrote in moray.win:

> I've noticed that Lutz Kretzschmar is writing/reding in this group.
> Guy, do you have too much time hu? ;-)
Hehe, no, unfortunately not, otherwise your fifth wish would be
granted<g>. This is our support forum and we do take support
seriously. If we can do support in public it helps keep the email
quantity down.

> So I would like to start a feature-wish-list...
Ufff, as if we didn't have enough to do<g>. No, seriously, feel free
to start a wish-list, but don't expect it to become a reality in any
particular order (or at all). We are about to come out with a smaller
release (hopefully before the end of the year), but the changes won't
be too big (please don't ask).

> - Object Libraries
I take it you've seen the Object Library on our website?

> - possibility to place one object several times in the image... when you
> change the source-object, all others will be changed. This could be memory-
> and rendering-time-sparing
This has been possible since Moray V2.5. When you copy an object using
the Duplicate function, there is a checkbox called 'Reference Object'.
If you activate this, Moray will make a shallow copy of the object
(which is exactly what you described above). If you leave it unchecked
it makes a deep copy (creates copies of all subobjects too).

> BTW: Why takes the animation plugin so much time? 
I see Xander has answered this. 

> It would be enough for me if the translation/scale/rotation fields 
> would be replaced by a formular editor/parser ...
Yeah, but not for us. If I wanted to animate with formulas (only), I'd
stick to POV-Ray scripting language. We do want to offer an animation
interface that allows more visual control of the animation.

> Just a suggestion... Perhaps it's more complicated as I can imagine...
Yup, I think maybe<g>. A long time ago, when I started Moray (6
years?) I thought about making every value a formula, but it turns out
that this is totally unsuitable for a graphical program.

- Lutz
  email : lut### [at] stmuccom
  Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray

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Hi Nieminen Juha, you recently wrote in moray.win:

>   Doesn't copying an object do just this?
It depends how you make the copy. Moray offers shallow and deep
copies.

>   My suggestion is that a scripting language (perhaps similar to povray's)
> should be added. That should cover most of the requests anybody has and would
> remove all the limits moray has.
I agree that a simnple scripting would be a Good Thing, unfortunately
it is quite a lot of work (not neccessarily very difficult, but a lot
of internal shuffling). 
Adding a scripting language like POV-Rays seems rather like doing a
full circle<g>. Might as well just use POV-Ray! Our concentration is
on the G in GUI ;-)

Someone on the Moray SDK mailing list recently started to research the
possibility of creating a scripting plugin, so there is hope yet<g>.

- Lutz
  email : lut### [at] stmuccom
  Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray

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> I agree that a simnple scripting would be a Good Thing, unfortunately
> it is quite a lot of work (not neccessarily very difficult, but a lot
> of internal shuffling).
> Adding a scripting language like POV-Rays seems rather like doing a
> full circle<g>. Might as well just use POV-Ray! Our concentration is
> on the G in GUI ;-)
Not exactly.  You could make very simple, very fast, very editable and
very interactive (are those the same?) previews with moray of plain
POV-code that way.
 
> Someone on the Moray SDK mailing list recently started to research the
> possibility of creating a scripting plugin, so there is hope yet<g>.

> - Lutz
>   email : lut### [at] stmuccom
>   Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray

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Gev### [at] jpberlinde wrote:

> -[your features here?]

- Mandel objects... I want to play around with these, but I'm coding impaired.

- Built in blub support.

- Ability to have Moray render from any viewport. Non-perspective viewports
would use the orthographic camera, of course.

- Some kind of graphical method of editing slope maps. I just don't get all the
height/slope entries.

- Ability "comment out" parts of a texture without deleting them. Like the
"export" checkbox for objects.

- More of everything.

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Hi ZEGER KNAEPEN, you recently wrote in moray.win:

> Not exactly.  You could make very simple, very fast, very editable and
> very interactive (are those the same?) previews with moray of plain
> POV-code that way.
I disagree. POV-Ray takes more than a second to parse a scene and the
langauge is so liberal that it is very difficult to write a 100%
compatible parser (you're not allowed to use the POV-Ray source code,
remember). And if you don't make a 100% compatible parser, then you
have exactly the same discussion as we are having about Moray<g>.

I wonder why noone has written a patch for POV-Ray that does this
simple preview if it so easy.
- Lutz
  email : lut### [at] stmuccom
  Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray

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Lutz Kretzschmar <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote:
: Adding a scripting language like POV-Rays seems rather like doing a
: full circle<g>. Might as well just use POV-Ray!

  Not really. Just imagine how the wire mesh changes in real time when you
make a change in the script... That would be cool.

  Of course there's one problem: If an object (or a series of them) is
created with a script, can you modify it in the modeller with the mouse?

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Hi Nieminen Juha, you recently wrote in moray.win:

>   Of course there's one problem: If an object (or a series of them) is
> created with a script, can you modify it in the modeller with the mouse?
I would think that the script is something that would run once and
create objects in Moray. The script is then done and all other
processing is done with Moray.

- Lutz
  email : lut### [at] stmuccom
  Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray

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> - Built in blub support.

i also would like blub support, nothing worse than free swing blub

Rick

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I would like to see the ability to dynamicly include objects from other
.mdl files.  This would be a huge help.  Instead of actually having to
place every object in one file, you could have many files each with an
object in it.  I do this now, but when I want to render an entire scene
I have to copy the newest version of an object out of its file (or do a
file merge, is what its called I believe) and translate it to fit in its
new place in the combined scene.

Programs such as PageMaker do this already.  If you update a graphic,
the graphic is then updated in all documents that it is placed in.

Nathan

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Nathan J. Smith <njs### [at] ilstuedu> wrote in message
news:38477F64.69661DB5@ilstu.edu...
> I would like to see the ability to dynamicly include objects from other
> .mdl files.  This would be a huge help.  Instead of actually having to
> place every object in one file, you could have many files each with an
> object in it.  I do this now, but when I want to render an entire scene
> I have to copy the newest version of an object out of its file (or do a
> file merge, is what its called I believe) and translate it to fit in its
> new place in the combined scene.
>
> Programs such as PageMaker do this already.  If you update a graphic,
> the graphic is then updated in all documents that it is placed in.

I dont know i would like this, i have a small libray of common objects, and
often have to tweak then as and when required

Rick

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Lutz Kretzschmar wrote:
> Yes, this is not a optimal solution and one of the things we have
> planned for a later version (not the next one) is a normal layer
> system as many other packages have them.

This is a very encouraging way to go. I think it will be a most
helpful change in the long run! :)

--
As long as this is just a general wish list, I'd like to add one 
thing to it myself (hopefully I'm not just repeating something
someone already pointed out). First, my reasoning:

I like to better organize my projects by keeping all files related 
to a particular project in one directory together. This makes it
easier to work with, share, and ultimately archive and backup a
given project. The current way, after just so many projects, I 
find my directories got so full of files, I no longer remember 
what pieces go with what projects. 

Currently I follow a sort of pseudo-IDE approach by setting 
up a central "\Projects" directory, under which is a separate 
directory for each project. When I'm ready to switch to a new
project, I make its directory, then set POV code to export there,
then finally use regedit to alter all the search paths in the
registry, (I prefer to keep the search paths neat so I don't
keep getting prompted over and over when multiple files of the 
same name show up in different projects) All this works well 
enough, but as you can imagine, makes changing projects kind 
of involved.

I'd like to see a \Projects subdirectory added to the Moray 
directory, and support for automatic path/export switching added.
Perhaps a separate file/registry entry would track projects as you
create them, and to set up for a project, you would choose 
"File | Open Project" and type in the name of the project. All
paths would be adjusted for you and you'd then be prompted to
select a MDL file from the appropriate directory (oh, yes, I
should mention I usually create each piece of my scene in a
separate file then merge it into the main scene, so there can
be many MDL files associated with a given project! <g>)

Just a thought... (as long as we're tossing around thoughts
anyway!<G>)

Charles

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Hi Charles Fusner, you recently wrote in moray.win:

> I'd like to see a \Projects subdirectory added to the Moray 
> directory, and support for automatic path/export switching added.
We've actually thought about that and also find that it's probably a
good idea, so you might see this in a future version (not the next
one, though).

- Lutz
  email : lut### [at] stmuccom
  Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray

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heres a wish

i keep different kinds of files in different folders..
example:
    maps in one folder
    objects in another
the dependancy's button really helps locate where things are, it would
help me alot if you could copy all those dependancy's to one single
place.. like a destination folder, for backup or to send all the
necissary files to a friend for render...
does that make sense?

darrell

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Hi darre78, you recently wrote in moray.win:

> the dependancy's button really helps locate where things are, it would
> help me alot if you could copy all those dependancy's to one single
> place.. like a destination folder, for backup or to send all the
> necissary files to a friend for render...
> does that make sense?
Yes, it does and it has already been implemented in the current beta
(see our website).

- Lutz
  email : lut### [at] stmuccom
  Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray

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