Good morning IRTCers!

   Here you can view the entries for the Pseudo IRTC Stills topic - TINA 
CHeP (This Is Not A CHeckered Plane):

     http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/3dextra/

    There are no losers in this stand-in round, only winners. (Hey, and that 
includes me! Cool!)  ;)

     Thanks to those that entered, they are all great images.

       Enjoy!  :o)

      ~Steve~

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> Good morning IRTCers!
>
>    Here you can view the entries for the Pseudo IRTC Stills topic - TINA
> CHeP (This Is Not A CHeckered Plane):
>
>      http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/3dextra/
>
>     There are no losers in this stand-in round, only winners. (Hey, and that
> includes me! Cool!)  ;)
>
>      Thanks to those that entered, they are all great images.
>
>        Enjoy!  :o)
>
>       ~Steve~

Well this seems to have worked very well. I am impressed with the standard
of all of the entries. Especially with the interpretation of the theme.

Stephen

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WOW!!

This is good stuff indeed!

Steve, you complained there were not so many entries, I think that comes 
from the fact that the Pseudo IRTC is only known within the POV universe...

Thomas

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Comments for TINA CheP participants:

(The feedback that one receives from other participants has always been one
of my favorite aspects of the IRTC. I hope that we will include something
like it in the new version.)

'This is a knot, checkered, on a plane' by Bill P.:  I find the image
interesting both aesthetically and technically.  Thanks for the info on the
"two-pass" calculation  method.  I think I’ll be swiping… er… um… I mean
paying homage to it fairly soon.

‘TINA CheP's evolution’ by Malcolm F.:  A clever idea nicely done.  Far from
being "angry" about the inclusion of a checkered plane, I think it was a
well-placed element that facilitated an understanding of your concept.  The
relative simplicity of the elements that you mentioned in your text file
actually enhances the image rather than detracting from it, since ray
tracing itself is an important part of the subject matter.

‘The Perils of Tina’ by Thomas de G.:  I like this image MUCH better than I
do most images with Poser figures.  It has real drama and humor to go with
an interesting story and shows real creativity on the part of the artist.

‘tc2’ by Verm:  A nice composition that transforms what could have been
merely inanimate objects into characters in a story. Definitely a worthy
effort.

‘Crash’ by Andrey K.:  You’ve done a very good of something that I often
find difficult, making a ray traced object look "hand-made".  I also like
the fact that you chose the dimensions of the image to fit the subject
matter rather than to fit a computer screen.

'Tina entertains the boys at the POV Club' by ~Steve~:  I’m really glad to
see that the fire fighters in your community are not forced to live and
work in a blandly decorated station.  I’m not sure, however, that the
outfit that the young lady is wearing is suitable for fighting a major
conflagration.  What…? That’s NOT a fire station?  Well, I’ve certainly
never been in another kind of building with poles like that!   ;-)
Seriously, nice job, especially with the lighting.

‘2mice’ by Steve S.:  A fun and enjoyable take on the topic. Besides, one
can never have too many visual puns. You MIGHT be able to get that
translucent effect that you wanted by rendering an ever so slightly
larger(scale y*1.001 or there about) version of the cheese AROUND the
existing one with some filter and transparency values.

'This is not a checkered plane' by Jim C.:  Thanks for a very interesting
and creative image. The information on the "interleaved images" technique
is most appreciated.  One of the best things about the IRTC, pseudo or
otherwise, is that I learn something new every time.

‘povlab’ by Bruno C.: I found it to be a pleasing image full of interesting
objects, patterns and colors.  Because of the render issues you mentioned,
I get the distinct impression that there is much to the image design that
can not really be appreciated in the posted render.  If you ever have a
chance to render it as you wished and could post a link to it, I, for one,
would love to see it.

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Thanks for your comments. I'll render a 1280*1024 with better radiosity but
without media, and post the whole package. The whole thing is about 5700
lines of code (flower excluded). Congrats to the other participants, nice
works!

    Bruno


"Mike the Elder" <zer### [at] wyanorg> wrote:
> Comments for TINA CheP participants:
>
> (The feedback that one receives from other participants has always been one
> of my favorite aspects of the IRTC. I hope that we will include something
> like it in the new version.)
>
> 'This is a knot, checkered, on a plane' by Bill P.:  I find the image
> interesting both aesthetically and technically.  Thanks for the info on the
> "two-pass" calculation  method.  I think I’ll be swiping… er…
um… I mean
> paying homage to it fairly soon.
>
> ‘TINA CheP's evolution’ by Malcolm F.:  A clever idea nicely done.  Far
from
> being "angry" about the inclusion of a checkered plane, I think it was a
> well-placed element that facilitated an understanding of your concept.  The
> relative simplicity of the elements that you mentioned in your text file
> actually enhances the image rather than detracting from it, since ray
> tracing itself is an important part of the subject matter.
>
> ‘The Perils of Tina’ by Thomas de G.:  I like this image MUCH better
than I
> do most images with Poser figures.  It has real drama and humor to go with
> an interesting story and shows real creativity on the part of the artist.
>
> ‘tc2’ by Verm:  A nice composition that transforms what could have been
> merely inanimate objects into characters in a story. Definitely a worthy
> effort.
>
> ‘Crash’ by Andrey K.:  You’ve done a very good of something that I
often
> find difficult, making a ray traced object look "hand-made".  I also like
> the fact that you chose the dimensions of the image to fit the subject
> matter rather than to fit a computer screen.
>
> 'Tina entertains the boys at the POV Club' by ~Steve~:  I’m really glad to
> see that the fire fighters in your community are not forced to live and
> work in a blandly decorated station.  I’m not sure, however, that the
> outfit that the young lady is wearing is suitable for fighting a major
> conflagration.  What…? That’s NOT a fire station?  Well, I’ve
certainly
> never been in another kind of building with poles like that!   ;-)
> Seriously, nice job, especially with the lighting.
>
> ‘2mice’ by Steve S.:  A fun and enjoyable take on the topic. Besides,
one
> can never have too many visual puns. You MIGHT be able to get that
> translucent effect that you wanted by rendering an ever so slightly
> larger(scale y*1.001 or there about) version of the cheese AROUND the
> existing one with some filter and transparency values.
>
> 'This is not a checkered plane' by Jim C.:  Thanks for a very interesting
> and creative image. The information on the "interleaved images" technique
> is most appreciated.  One of the best things about the IRTC, pseudo or
> otherwise, is that I learn something new every time.
>
> ‘povlab’ by Bruno C.: I found it to be a pleasing image full of
interesting
> objects, patterns and colors.  Because of the render issues you mentioned,
> I get the distinct impression that there is much to the image design that
> can not really be appreciated in the posted render.  If you ever have a
> chance to render it as you wished and could post a link to it, I, for one,
> would love to see it.

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Mike the Elder wrote:
> Comments for TINA CheP participants:
> 
> (The feedback that one receives from other participants has always been one
> of my favorite aspects of the IRTC. 

Me too, let's face it we are depraved junkies for feedback, I clung to 
your every word.  Thanks for making the effort and hopefully more will 
chime in.



Some reactions of my own:



'This is a knot, checkered, on a plane'

My first reaction: Glad one of Bill's knots showed up.  Like
seeing an old friend.

Then: Interesting how these things adapt to difference contexts.
Almost like actors, you see both the star and the character.  ie I 
always see
both Ratso, and Dustin;  Tootsie, and Dustin, etc.  My first association was
to some sort of strange water toy that one is always surprised by at 
beaches,
or that treading water ball invention thing the guy wanted to cross the 
channel with
(or am I dreaming now...)

Then: Yup, I've used the granite-for-water trick...works good.
Then: Yup, fog too, used it this round, might get addicted.

Then read the description:  Owe so that's it how he does it...
makes sense.

Then I started looking at the image and thinking about the technique and 
its effect:
And I started thinking about how these things have a funny organic feel 
to them
like worms or snakes or some such, they seem to writhe, yet caught in 
stasis.  But then,
to actually writhe, the plates would have to compress somehow or change 
size,...
snake scales slide past each other,...but what if it is a different kind 
of organic, like a
tree for instance, living but more rigid, adapting the form to obstacles 
in the path, so such
variation in unit size possible, but in a differnt way...


"TINA CheP's evolution"

I have to admit I needed to read the explanation to help understand it, 
  but that
is not a shortcoming of the picture.  My first reaction was to try and 
parse whether
figures were all in exactly the same pose or not.  Because the sense of 
movement here
is deceptive and interesting.  For me, the most interesting part.  The 
idea of having
several figures in the same still indicate a sequnce of motion or events 
has a long
and intersting history.  Muybridge of course, but also Masaccio
http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/masaccio/brancacc/tribute/tribute.html
I have played with this on and off myself.
A nicely thought out response to the topic, acknowdging its source, and
showing a sense of the "taking stock" aspect of the larger situation.

The Perils of Tina (or: "That is NOT a checkered plane!")

Well Thomas, it would seem that what people MOST like about Magritte are 
the puns.
"Plane Checker" indeed ;P
Fabulous scene!  You have developed your narrative and cinematic abilities
to a high level.  Love the wide lens,...together with posing of the 
figures you get the realistic
feel of the street photographer's "grab shot".  Several characters 
preoccupied, interacting
but in a slightly scewed way, ultimately in their own private worlds. 
The major focus,
the artist's face, its expression is very realistic, and the supporting 
plots of the retreating
Tina, her expression the duement and summation of the scene, and the 
stiff shouldered
  distant figure, excellent.
The setting catapultes us through several levels of
fictive reality,...game spaces with their labrinth of modularized 
props,...the hint at the
accumulated detrious of POV checkered planes, (in gut grinding colors 
and from which
those props spring up), the ultimate reference to Renaissance 
depictional space,
all reinforced again by the sense of distortion of
peeking through a lens.  Just wonderful!

"tc2"

Yes I love the humour here, especially if you let your imagination 
anthromorphize the
chess pieces.  They are like knights all decked out in war armour who 
have arrived at the
field of battle only to find it commandeered for a bingo tournament.

"Crash"

Not a checkered plane.  A render of a brushed-in checkered pattern on a
paper surface. Which perhaps even more than with Magritte's pipe, asks:
what is a checkered plane anyway?  The picture has a sharp, reductivist,
  design sense about it with several levels of play on pictorial 
language,...
I wish I could accomplish such things, "for fun".
And I must examine that code!  I am still not picturing how you got that 
drybrush effect.

"Tina entertains the boys at the POV Club"

Well you are depicting Tina in a bad light, you bum.  But secretly we 
all love
her for it, and the scene is one of the most humanistically masterful 
ones you
have ever done Steve.  You have allowed understatement to create a very
realistic effect of a dark, cheezy-bad-lighted club.  You started with 
the pun on TINA,
added the checkered reference, and came up with a statement that 
transcends all
that.  The camera angle is crucial of course.  Perhaps in the end it is 
the POV clubbers that
are really depicted.

"2mice"

Or..."Who Moved My Cheese?"
A checkered aeroplane composed entirely
of stretched spheres?  And how did Crivelli's fly
get into the picture?  Clever, clever man.

"HERE'S LOOKING AT HUES, KID"

Awesome scene!  Clever and very compelling.  Do you suppose that POVer's
like to use a checkered plane as a neutral setting for their
brilliant csg models?  I wonder why?  But you add checker to the background
props, and we have more than a sequence of knowing puns and references,
we have a strange and sensuous fictive world that we can step right into.

"povlab"

Phew! You went to a lot of work, son!  I love the premise and the humour.
Every texture BUT checkers. Wonderful!  But why does everyone want to 
dress up
poor Tina in sleazy neon???  I don't know about you guys.

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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message 
news:45e736c8$1@news.povray.org...

> "Tina entertains the boys at the POV Club"
>
> Well you are depicting Tina in a bad light, you bum.


   LOL! Well, I thought I'd bring a little light-heartedness to the subject. 
:)



But secretly we
> all love
> her for it, and the scene is one of the most humanistically masterful ones 
> you
> have ever done Steve.  You have allowed understatement to create a very
> realistic effect of a dark, cheezy-bad-lighted club.  You started with the 
> pun on TINA,
> added the checkered reference, and came up with a statement that 
> transcends all
> that.

 Thank you. I kind of meant it that way.



The camera angle is crucial of course.  Perhaps in the end it is
> the POV clubbers that
> are really depicted.

Yep, the camera angle was crucial, and yes, that's us sitting around 
twiddling our thumbs itching to use PoVRay as our renderer for the IRTC.

   Thank you for your comments Jim, always appreciated.

   ~Steve~

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I've been prompted by Mike the Elder for a larger render of my entry. It
rendered last night and I am ready to post it here. Before I do so, I'd
like to make sure that it makes no pb I post here another version of my
entry and break some 'rules'.

I had no time yesterday to comment out the entries. I am currently at work
and I am afraid I won't have much time today. I'll give my comments ASAP,
promessed!

    Bruno

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Some feedback for the images, inspired by Jim Charter's wonderful analyses.
And he's right, we all clamour for it! I've spent a bit more time over
these than I would for the IRTC because there's only 11 images... :-)

Malcolm's "Evolution of TINA CheP"

A simple image, but it captures the idea of the topic nicely. At first
glance it seems trivial, but the mannekin is nicely done and I can
sympathise with how tedious it is to pose CSG figures! The blending of the
two environments seems quite natural. I like the way the figure starts off
as the classic cliche, only to rise out of the ground like a T-1000
terminator reassembling itself after a nasty altercation and sprint off in
search of a new life in a far more appealing clime.

Thomas's "Perils of Tina"

This seems to have a slightly cryptic story behind it... the Checkered Man
in Red is certainly being vociferous about something, and looks pretty
angry. Is he the Plane Checker? If so, what is wrong with the other man's
plane? Or is the Plane Checker around the next corner, having already
rejected the slightly downcast-looking entrant just walking through the
shadows on the left? Whatever's going on, the girl to the right seems
resigned to waiting for an outcome with her large green ball.

Good posing on the figures, especially the Checkered Man. Nice to see such
experimentation with camera angles, too. This image might work quite well
as a caption competition...

Verm's "tc2"

I like this concept. As described in the text file, a squad of chessmen
tromp out to have a game, only to find their patch usurped by a pot of Go
pieces. 'What shall we do now, sarge?' 'Dunno, lads.'

The gloomy setting works pretty well - perhaps this is an illicit gaming
cellar beneath a seedy bar in an ill-lit street on the disreputable side of
town. Perhaps the chess-men are actually raiding the cellar during a highly
illegal Go death-match. It's quite an achievement to be able to
anthropomorphise this scene despite the realistic approach - I don't think
it would work so well if the chessmen had eyes, for example.

Andrey's "Crash"

This looks like it might have been generated using the most slovenly POV-Ray
engine ever seen. You start the render, and it half-heartedly slaps some
paint in an approximation of a checkered plane, breaks someone's greenhouse
in the next street with the reflective sphere, then carelessly knocks over
one of the paint tins whilst scratching its backside and swigging from a
can of Carlsberg Special Brew. To crown it all, it probably saved the image
in an 8-bit Atari sprite format that hasn't been used since 1987.

Inventive effects for the paint drips, and I like the checker paint-stroke
effects. The wide-angle view makes it more than it could have been, too!

Steve's "Tina entertains..."

I like this a lot, going straight for the name that everybody got so
enthusiastic about in the first place. The floor's really nice, very
mid-eighties Russian computer-gamey ;-) but I have to say, I didn't
immediately notice that Tina is completely naked - the dark shadows at
first appeared to be clothing of some kind. Stronger radiosity or
additional lighting from the side would help here. This revelation of
course brings out the very tasteful camera angle - no bits on display here!

Steve's "2mice"

Interesting approach... no checkered planes, damn, that only leaves cheese!
That cheese is just the right colour (it can be surprisingly difficult to
pick a good shade of yellow - unless your version of colors.inc has a
helpful "LeerdammerYellow"), and the mouse whiskers look fine depite your
misgivings. I can almost smell it. The fly and the mice definitely smelt
it, and presumably are tucking in with gusto. :-)

Mike's "Here's looking at hues, kid"

The plane puts me in mind of the Indian haulage business. I once travelled
across India, and was struck by how colourfully all the truck-drivers
decorated their vehicles, seemingly by coating every available surface with
glue and dipping the whole affair into a lucky dip of plastic flowers,
swirly paint and very small shrines to the Hindu Gods.

This is great. I think this is possibly the best checkered (or not) airplane
gag I've ever seen! And I'm very impressed by the plane - until I read the
description I had it pegged as either a well-made mesh or a library object
- but no - all CSG! Brilliant. Wise move toning down the photorealism too.

Jim's "This is not a checkered plane"

This is a brilliant image, both artistically and technically. I was hitherto
ignorant of the camera_view pigment feature in MegaPov, and to put it to
such inventive use - the POV-Ray authors must be continually astounded by
this sort of creativity. It's like a checkered transporter beam... there
must be some ST:NG techo-babble dialogue somewhere that can explain this
effect - probably season 4 or 5, and probably spoken by Geordi laForge.

Aside from the checker effect, the cold and isolation are particularly
tangible, although one suspects the image wouldn't be nearly as captivating
without the checker. A fascinating result, which demands rumination (and I
don't mean semidigested grass).

Bruno's "Povlab"

Wasn't there a modeller for POV-Ray called povlab once upon a time? This is
quite a busy image, and certainly demands some attention. A lot of detail
is only obvious after viewing on a high-gamma (i.e. laptop) display, and
boy is there a lot to find. I couldn't even see the casks mentioned in the
text file on my CRT! So much comes to light when the image is brightened -
the mantel to the right, the 'danger-of-death' logo on the lightsaber
display case, the hearth in the far corner, the shaft of light falling
across the desk, the circular mirrors placed around the domed skylight, the
sword hanging over the door...

This is a digital alchemist's abode, stuffed with the arcane tools of his
trade, dusty crucibles fomenting bubbling SDL mixtures in his attempts to
create graphical gold from base  16. The door is ajar, so perhaps the
alchemist has popped out for a quick game of backgammon to soothe his
nerves after his most recent failure to generate a checkered plane...


Well, thus ends my critical marathon of the 'not a checkered plane'
POV-Rally. Hope you all enjoyed it folks; I certainly enjoyed looking at
(and *seeing*) your images!

Bill

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Bill Pragnell wrote:


> Steve's "Tina entertains..."
> 

> mid-eighties Russian computer-gamey ;-) but I have to say, I didn't
> immediately notice that Tina is completely naked - 

The little strumpet!!!  I'd thought the leaves in her hair was a printed 
  top.


> 
> Mike's "Here's looking at hues, kid"
> 
> The plane puts me in mind of the Indian haulage business. I once travelled
> across India, and was struck by how colourfully all the truck-drivers
> decorated their vehicles, seemingly by coating every available surface with
> glue and dipping the whole affair into a lucky dip of plastic flowers,
> swirly paint and very small shrines to the Hindu Gods.

Perfect.




> - but no - all CSG! Brilliant. Wise move toning down the photorealism too.
> 

The stylization here I find extremely compelling



> Jim's "This is not a checkered plane"
> 


Thankyou for the kind words.  Yes the image did have a recurring scifi 
attraction for me.  Like the opening shot of a movie where some sort of 
multidimensional sensor picks up an intruder, or a multidimensional 
intruder endangers a isolated human or, or...

though a sense of the transience of humans, accentuated by hostile 
environs, as starting point for rumination (as you say), was probably 
the more enduring thing I had in mind.  As usually with me, I got pretty 
far afield from the original intensions of the topic.



> 
> Bruno's "Povlab"
> 



I'm glad you could give Bruno's piece the attention it deserves.  I kind 
of ran out of gas.



> 
> Well, thus ends my critical marathon of the 'not a checkered plane'
> POV-Rally. Hope you all enjoyed it folks; I certainly enjoyed looking at
> (and *seeing*) your images!
> 



Yes, enjoyed getting your "take"   These do take a lot of time, thought 
and energy to write.  Shifting your faculty for empathy across ten 
personalities.  Gives some respect for therapists perhaps.

Post a reply to this message

Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> I'm glad you could give Bruno's piece the attention it deserves.  I kind
> of ran out of gas.
To tell the truth, so did I. I had to come back to it the next day...

B

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On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 08:49:12 -0000
"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:

> 
>    Here you can view the entries for the Pseudo IRTC Stills topic -
> TINA CHeP (This Is Not A CHeckered Plane):
> 
>      http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/3dextra/

Hey guys.

Congrats for the initiative. Few participants? I just happened to look (a
few days ago) to the news list. If I'd know before, I might even have
participated :-(

Today the tiscali site have error 403 - no images uploaded.

John

Post a reply to this message

"John Coppens" <joh### [at] johncoppenscom> wrote in message 
news:200### [at] johncoppenscom...

> Hey guys.
>
> Congrats for the initiative. Few participants? I just happened to look (a
> few days ago) to the news list. If I'd know before, I might even have
> participated :-(

   Well, It's continuing in the same vein as the IRTC, and the topic for 
March/April is 'Before and After'.


>
> Today the tiscali site have error 403 - no images uploaded.

      Yes, sorry about that, I've just been playing with the site, and it's 
back up as it was now.

      ~Steve~


>
> John

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Hello all!

I am quite busy with my kids this week-end, and I haven't finished my
comments yet. However, I took time to read yours. Lot of talents and skill
for this 'round'.

Concerning myself, it seems people would like to see a larger and better lit
image. Here it is p.b.i (with no room media)! I still consider this image as
being not 100% finished (some more stuff to add to the mess, basic
landscape, clouds and a dawn outsite lighting).

      See you soon!

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My comments.

'This is a knot, checkered, on a plane' by Bill Pragnell
Good humour for the title and the subject, playing with words. I like to
play with the language. Good interpretation! Bill's knots are famous now,
and here is another application. I made a complex scene, Bill made simple
yet effective (though the tile-placement algo is not that simple and
requires some programming skills)! Congrats.


'TINA CheP's evolution' by Malcolm Findlay
From RSOCP to life! From cold metal and still checkered plane to living
organism (clouds included)! This is a very good interpretation, that
involves movement by definition.
The 3 ellipsis dots could be replaced by (1) something like pinocchio, (2) a
pre-human body, (3) TINA herself ... It can join somewhere next round's
theme "before and after".



'The Perils of Tina' by Thomas de Groot
Where experience speaks ... The checkered plane is a maze! How to get out? I
like the originality of the idea. Thomas' technicity serves the concept, not
the inverse! Much life in the 3 characters' attitude, mostly the guy on the
left (face, arms, hands, fingers ...). The walking man at the background
makes me imagine a scenario: when trapped in the maze, people react and try
to escape, making conflictuous discussions, then, after a while, you have
the solution of resignation and/or madness. This image appears clearly like
an instant-snapshot. I also like the eye-blink to the IRTC admins ... Well
done Thomas!


'tc2' by Verm
A Goban is not a checkered plane. What a curiosity for chess pieces! No
problem for the knight (quite diffucult to model), I did not notice it
wasn't there! Good lighting. It is quite easy to 'anthropomophize' the
pieces, and I second Jim in that.


'Crash' by Andrey K.
Funny idea. I wish I could do that 'just for fun', especially the brush and
its marks on the paper! Bad luck the painter put the red paint down, he was
so close to the end!


'Tina entertains the boys at the POV Club' by Steve Paget
The dancing floor at POV club could certainly not be a checkered plane.
Maybe there is a spinning reflective faceted sphere on the ceiling! Nice
modeling for the floor. Tina's attitude is not 'hot' at all. Using DAZ's
Victoria character as Tina's human incarnation was a good idea.
Technically, I think the lighting was not as simple as it might appear at
first look ... Because it looks obvious.


'2mice ' by Steve Shelby
No checkered plane. No checkered aeroplane either! Made me laugh. Took me a
few seconds to understood the relationship with the fly. The mices are
cute, though they are made basic. The fly is very well done! Few objects,
but nice interpretation! Deserves to go further with the texture/material
of the cheese.


'HERE'S LOOKING AT HUES, KID' by Michael Chelmecki
A checkered world but this is not a checkered aeroplane! Good idea and
another play with words. Excellent modelling of the plane, mainly the
detailed wheels, and (of course) very nice texture! Companies can take
example from it. There also could be checkered clouds ...


'Final' by Jim Charter
I can't find words to comment Jim's technique. A checkered character with
checkered ... shadow! Bluffing image! My hat off! I'll have a close look to
the source ...

'TINA CheP spheres' by Malcolm Findlay
I like the simplicity and the instanciation of the reverse concept of RSOCP,
wich could be CSORP. Very eye-pleasant variations of the yellow color.

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Forgive me that I have not yet sent in my comments! Some RL matters are in 
the way. But I shall comment, although, tipically, I shall do that in an 
unual way!

Thomas

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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message 
news:45ea5e56$1@news.povray.org...
> Bill Pragnell wrote:
>
>
>> Steve's "Tina entertains..."
>>
>
>> mid-eighties Russian computer-gamey ;-) but I have to say, I didn't
>> immediately notice that Tina is completely naked -
>
> The little strumpet!!!  I'd thought the leaves in her hair was a printed 
> top.


      LOL!    :)

       Well, I thought I'd enter a little risque humour into a 3d image 
scene Jim - and it worked! (I think). Yes, Tina is wearing nothing but a 
rose held in her mouth, and a garter on her leg, teasing the PoV-boys as she 
knows how best to do it. (She's a Dancer!)   ;)

  Anyway, I enjoyed making this scene, and I thank you (ALL) for your 
constructive comments - really much appreciated.

    (And just like our friend Thomas, my comments coming soon).

       ~Steve~

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St. wrote:
>   Good morning IRTCers!
> 
>    Here you can view the entries for the Pseudo IRTC Stills topic - TINA 
> CHeP (This Is Not A CHeckered Plane):
> 
>      http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/3dextra/
Many thanks for hosting and organising this.

Finally got a chance to try to comment.
I was particularly struck by the wide variety of styles of the images.

I think my favourite images were Steve Shelby's mice - you just can't go 
wrong with cute cartoon animals and bad puns, and Bill Pragnell's knot, 
but I liked all of the others too.
--
Malcolm's "Evolution of TINA CheP" : I liked the concept and the 
simple(ish) setting works nicely. I'd almost have been tempted to give 
one of the mannequins a spear, and if they could have smoothly 
uncurled/morphed from the sphere... no I like it as it is.
---
Thomas's "Perils of Tina" : Another take on the concept that made me 
grin and some impressively expressive figures. I'm not quite sure what's 
happening between the two central figures but it makes you look again.
--
Andrey's "Crash" : Nice "simple" looking image that works very well.
--
My (Verm's) tc2

I ran out of time with both the image and the description as I was away 
for then end of Feb and beginning of March.

The scene was composed and designed from a player's point of view 
sitting behind the board locked in an underground vault with someone 
coming in from a tunnel to the left but the composition didn't work.

I asked a colleague's opinion and his response was "well if I was 
photographing that scene...." so I moved the camera half a dozen times 
until we ended up with the scene shown. He's an amateur photographer and 
said he enjoyed the process of "taking pictures without a camera" :-)

I'm glad you liked the concept and amused it worked out nicely from the 
last minute change of viewpoint.

The textures still need work: I think the board needs blurred 
reflections and although I'm pleased I got my procedural brick patterns 
to work they're currently far too clean looking for an old brick vault.

The knight's hiding behind the king. (I made a nice knight but he's a 
totally different style to the other pieces.)

As I said the end result wasn't stunning but I had fun learnt and 
finished my first purely imaginary scene, so thanks again for running 
the round.
--
Steve's "Tina entertains..." : Tsk Tsk, you're definately showing her in 
a bad light :- ).
--
Mike's "Here's looking at hues, kid" : Nice scene, very nice modelling 
and very on topic.
--
Jim's "This is not a checkered plane" : I was intrigued and almost 
frustrated wanting to see through the chequers to the figures :-)
--
Malcolm's TC Spheres : retro image with nice ripples.
--
Bruno's "Povlab" : obviously far better in the big format in pbi (or 
even in the large format scaled down to avoid the aliasing) and then 
there's so much to look at. One thing ... would refraction have made the 
light sabre case look more glass like? (I know the scene was only just 
finished in time and was very slow to render but I was just wondering...)

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Verm <pov### [at] thirteeendynucom> wrote:
> St. wrote:
> >   Good morning IRTCers!
> >
> >    Here you can view the entries for the Pseudo IRTC Stills topic - TINA
> > CHeP (This Is Not A CHeckered Plane):
> >
> >      http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/3dextra/
> Many thanks for hosting and organising this.
>
> Finally got a chance to try to comment.
> I was particularly struck by the wide variety of styles of the images.
>
> I think my favourite images were Steve Shelby's mice - you just can't go
> wrong with cute cartoon animals and bad puns, and Bill Pragnell's knot,
> but I liked all of the others too.
> --
> Malcolm's "Evolution of TINA CheP" : I liked the concept and the
> simple(ish) setting works nicely. I'd almost have been tempted to give
> one of the mannequins a spear, and if they could have smoothly
> uncurled/morphed from the sphere... no I like it as it is.
> ---
> Thomas's "Perils of Tina" : Another take on the concept that made me
> grin and some impressively expressive figures. I'm not quite sure what's
> happening between the two central figures but it makes you look again.
> --
> Andrey's "Crash" : Nice "simple" looking image that works very well.
> --
> My (Verm's) tc2
>
> I ran out of time with both the image and the description as I was away
> for then end of Feb and beginning of March.
>
> The scene was composed and designed from a player's point of view
> sitting behind the board locked in an underground vault with someone
> coming in from a tunnel to the left but the composition didn't work.
>
> I asked a colleague's opinion and his response was "well if I was
> photographing that scene...." so I moved the camera half a dozen times
> until we ended up with the scene shown. He's an amateur photographer and
> said he enjoyed the process of "taking pictures without a camera" :-)
>
> I'm glad you liked the concept and amused it worked out nicely from the
> last minute change of viewpoint.
>
> The textures still need work: I think the board needs blurred
> reflections and although I'm pleased I got my procedural brick patterns
> to work they're currently far too clean looking for an old brick vault.
>
> The knight's hiding behind the king. (I made a nice knight but he's a
> totally different style to the other pieces.)
>
> As I said the end result wasn't stunning but I had fun learnt and
> finished my first purely imaginary scene, so thanks again for running
> the round.
> --
> Steve's "Tina entertains..." : Tsk Tsk, you're definately showing her in
> a bad light :- ).
> --
> Mike's "Here's looking at hues, kid" : Nice scene, very nice modelling
> and very on topic.
> --
> Jim's "This is not a checkered plane" : I was intrigued and almost
> frustrated wanting to see through the chequers to the figures :-)
> --
> Malcolm's TC Spheres : retro image with nice ripples.
> --
> Bruno's "Povlab" : obviously far better in the big format in pbi (or
> even in the large format scaled down to avoid the aliasing) and then
> there's so much to look at. One thing ... would refraction have made the
> light sabre case look more glass like? (I know the scene was only just
> finished in time and was very slow to render but I was just wondering...)

Thanks for your comments.

To answer your question: there actually IS refraction in the lightsaber
case, as well as a small amount of bump. They were visible when I modelled
the case in a separate scene (no rad), but almost not visible in the final
scene. It took long to render because of the room media. The 1280*1024
version (no media) takes about 8-10 hours on a Athlon 3000+ depending on
the rad settings.

    Bruno

BTW: I rendered another version, with better lighting (darker out side, more
influenced by inner objects, mainly the 'TINA' neon). Should I dare once
again post it here?

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I finally have some time to write a few words. I feel kind of like an 
outsider, since I never wrote in during the whole discussion about what to 
do about IRTC, but I was reading with interest the whole time. It's been 
over a year since I last entered, and I wasn't interested this time until 
this new idea was sprouted (TINA CHeP). It allowed me to make something 
simple ( I don't like making complicated scenes, and it seems that the ones 
that win are usually the most complicated). My 2mice entry was just sort of 
a long-term stream of conciousness exercise, and was not intended to have 
anything even slightly serious to say. I appreciate all of your comments 
about it.
This topic left so much room for interpretation, the variety in the 11 
entries is quite amazing. I don't have enough time to write about all of 
them at length, like some of you have.
I really like Andrey's for the way he did the rough-looking painted squares. 
I had to read the txt to find out how it was done. So simple, but so 
effective.
I was immediately struck by Mike C's image there next to mine, using the 
same pun of the plane. It made me laugh.
Bill's Knot is impressive technically, and I love the pun it the title.
Steve's Tina...wow! how do I join the POV Club? The floor and the lighting 
are really cool. Side note: I'm so old, the last time I was in such an 
establishment, pole dancing hadn't been invented yet.
Malcolm, Thomas, Verm, Jim, Bruno, I liked all of your entries, too. I just 
don't have the time to comment on all of them individually.
Steve Shelby
http://www.shelbyvision.com
Vegetarians
kill plants, but cannibals are
humantarians.


"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote in message news:45e69395$2@news.povray.org...
>  Good morning IRTCers!
>
>   Here you can view the entries for the Pseudo IRTC Stills topic - TINA 
> CHeP (This Is Not A CHeckered Plane):
>
>     http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/3dextra/
>
>    There are no losers in this stand-in round, only winners. (Hey, and 
> that includes me! Cool!)  ;)
>
>     Thanks to those that entered, they are all great images.
>
>       Enjoy!  :o)
>
>      ~Steve~
>
>
>
>

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Late comments. Started this before I left for work but didn't finish.
Back now, so ...

'This is a knot, checkered, on a plane' by Bill P.:
This was a nice topic for a person interested in knots. Your's is a
thematically simple image with a decent amount of polish. The
presentation with the rippling reflection effect definitely recalls the
"neat-o" feeling we all got with our first look at a ray-traced chrome
sphere. Unfortunately, along with the warmth of familiarity comes the
choking sensation of over-familiarity. Not sure if the retro 90s look is
intentional. Bitter sweet.

‘TINA CheP's evolution’ by Malcolm F.:
Where's the evolution? A neat idea, but the figure does not evolve at
all. This unfortunately does reflect the evolution of most POVers in
that the standards are so low that only a handful bother to spend more
than a few hours putting something together. This is not a comment on
your or any POVers skill, rather a comment on the unwillingness to
invest more time/energy than most do.

‘The Perils of Tina’ by Thomas de G.:
I've never tried Poser. The characters are posed very convincingly, but
their distorted arms and details like the low resolution of Tina's
sphere take away a lot from an otherwise very nice image. The story is
very well narrated. I imagine the background character as one who has
passed the plane checker and is now burdened with guilt over her own
conformity.

‘tc2’ by Verm:
‘Crash’ by Andrey K.:
'HERE'S LOOKING AT HUES, KID' by Michael Chelmecki:
These kinds of themes are tough. There's some cleverness, but no humor
or challenge. There really is nothing to take from this on an emotional
level, so the image must be visually stunning to leave an impression.
Some nice modeling techniques in all three, but I personally took
nothing away from having seen them.

'Tina entertains the boys at the POV Club' by ~Steve~:
After having heard about the Tina Chep topic, my first idea for
interpretation was "this is not a checkered plane (of existence)",
meaning that we are not living in a world where the distinction between
black and white (right and wrong) is clearly delineated.  Not sure if
it's intentional, but your image and description do lend themselves to
this interpretation.

‘2mice’ by Steve S.:
Why the sign? Stream of consciousness, but is this not a non-checkered
plain, "an expanse of land with relatively low relief(Wikipedia)"? I
think with a bit more work on the aesthetics of this unusual plain, this
could be an interesting image.

'This is not a checkered plane' by Jim C.:
Your scene is an example of what I want to do in future rounds of the
new RTC. A nice take on the topic and a quality pic most likely produced
in a reasonable, non-life-stopping amount of time. I want to do as you
have done: take something, put it out there, and participate in what's
going on rather than just trying to bend topics to my personal ends.
Additionally, you've managed a trick for which I cannot promise to
always try; You've made an image that is on topic yet still relevant
outside of the competition.

As far as the picture itself, I can't really tell what elements are "in
phase" with others. I thought it at first to be a group of hunters or
travelers disappearing into history. Transience definitely comes across.

‘povlab’ by Bruno C.:
An IRTC entry in the traditional mold. Lots of stuff. Ran out of time
for tweaking, but this is the right track for the kind of unambiguously
quality images that often do and should win contests like these.

 -Shay

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Shay <not### [at] notmailcom> wrote:
> Late comments. Started this before I left for work but didn't finish.
> Back now, so ...
>
> .../...
>
> ‘povlab’ by Bruno C.:
> An IRTC entry in the traditional mold. Lots of stuff. Ran out of time
> for tweaking, but this is the right track for the kind of unambiguously
> quality images that often do and should win contests like these.
>
>  -Shay

Thanks! :o)

I took time after the round to tweak the lighting and get a better result.

    Bruno

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Shay wrote:
> Late comments. Started this before I left for work but didn't finish.
> Back now, so ...


Late in some sense I guess, but always appreciated.  Considering the 
pictures after the dust has settled and the excitement is over


> 
> 'This is a knot, checkered, on a plane' by Bill P.:
> This was a nice topic for a person interested in knots. Your's is a
> thematically simple image with a decent amount of polish. The
> presentation with the rippling reflection effect definitely recalls the
> "neat-o" feeling we all got with our first look at a ray-traced chrome
> sphere. Unfortunately, along with the warmth of familiarity comes the
> choking sensation of over-familiarity. Not sure if the retro 90s look is
> intentional. Bitter sweet.

Retro 90s already??? :0

> 
> ‘TINA CheP's evolution’ by Malcolm F.:
> Where's the evolution? A neat idea, but the figure does not evolve at
> all. This unfortunately does reflect the evolution of most POVers in
> that the standards are so low that only a handful bother to spend more
> than a few hours putting something together. This is not a comment on
> your or any POVers skill, rather a comment on the unwillingness to
> invest more time/energy than most do.

Yet it is a nice take on the perpetual problem of depictional means.  On 
any given occasion you are stuck at whatever skill level you have,... 
but you still want to tell the story.


> 
> ‘The Perils of Tina’ by Thomas de G.:
> I've never tried Poser. The characters are posed very convincingly, but
> their distorted arms and details like the low resolution of Tina's
> sphere take away a lot from an otherwise very nice image. The story is
> very well narrated. I imagine the background character as one who has
> passed the plane checker and is now burdened with guilt over her own
> conformity.

LOL, always the maverick, Shay, always the maverick.


> 
> ‘tc2’ by Verm:
> ‘Crash’ by Andrey K.:
> 'HERE'S LOOKING AT HUES, KID' by Michael Chelmecki:
> These kinds of themes are tough. There's some cleverness, but no humor
> or challenge. There really is nothing to take from this on an emotional
> level, so the image must be visually stunning to leave an impression.
> Some nice modeling techniques in all three, but I personally took
> nothing away from having seen them.

Yes, but personally I always allow for the passion-for-craft.  It has 
it's fatuous side, but I wlways give it the nod in the edge.  I guess 
because it has its obsessive-compulsive side too.

> 
> 'Tina entertains the boys at the POV Club' by ~Steve~:
> After having heard about the Tina Chep topic, my first idea for
> interpretation was "this is not a checkered plane (of existence)",
> meaning that we are not living in a world where the distinction between
> black and white (right and wrong) is clearly delineated.  Not sure if
> it's intentional, but your image and description do lend themselves to
> this interpretation.

Yes, it is a simple image that pries at complexities.  One time, while I 
was sitting in my little programmers' suit, (Hugo Boss, a nice liquid 
black-blue, european cut, tapered from the shoulder, pegged cuffs,) in 
my little programmer's chair, in my little programmer's cubicle, on the 
67th floor of the WTC, my project leader, a very prim, proper, 
emmaculately groomed, Korean woman, came up to me and asked me what I 
thought about pornographic videos.  Ummmm...????


> 
> 'This is not a checkered plane' by Jim C.:
> Your scene is an example of what I want to do in future rounds of the
> new RTC. A nice take on the topic and a quality pic most likely produced
> in a reasonable, non-life-stopping amount of time. 

Thanks.  It takes attention not to get sucked in too deep.



> going on rather than just trying to bend topics to my personal ends.

When that is done cynically it rarely works.  You must give yourself up 
to the topic.  That is the truth of the situation.  But the thing is, 
that is lived out by different people in different ways.

> Additionally, you've managed a trick for which I cannot promise to
> always try; You've made an image that is on topic yet still relevant
> outside of the competition.

Thanks again.  I think you have to just take what comes.

> 
> As far as the picture itself, I can't really tell what elements are "in
> phase" with others. 

There are some ambiguous moments but I think they derive from how are 
perception works, you know, the old which line is shorter sort of thing, 
and from certain vagaries, such as how a line in the snow might coincide 
with the edge of a checker etc.

I thought it at first to be a group of hunters or
> travelers disappearing into history. Transience definitely comes across.

That was pretty much it.


> 
> ‘povlab’ by Bruno C.:
> An IRTC entry in the traditional mold. Lots of stuff. Ran out of time
> for tweaking, but this is the right track for the kind of unambiguously
> quality images that often do and should win contests like these.
> 
>  

Yup.

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Jim Charter wrote:

> On any given occasion you are stuck at whatever skill level
> you have,... but you still want to tell the story.

I'm questioning will, not skill. Look back at the IRTC rounds from 1996
when render (thus development) times were Hellish for even simple CG models.

It would delight me if Steve changed the name from RTContest to
RTChallenge. Let this have the spirit of a five mile race. Sure, someone
will win, but even the last person across the finish line will have run
five miles. Five miles isn't THAT much, is it?

> the passion-for-craft.
> It has it's fatuous side,

Uhhhhgh. How *much* *much* time did I spend on that damn pagoda?

> it has its obsessive-compulsive side too.

Uhhhhgh. How *much* *much* time did I spend on that damn pagoda?

>> rather than just trying to bend topics to my personal ends.
> 
> When that is done cynically it rarely works.  You must give yourself
> up to the topic.  That is the truth of the situation.  But the thing
> is, that is lived out by different people in different ways.

I do this sincerely and in good faith. I'm just as reluctant to bore as
I am to be bored, but there is something to be said for playing along,
getting some nice looking renders into the higher rankings, and enjoying
the race.

>> I thought it at first to be a group of hunters or
>> travelers disappearing into history. Transience definitely
>> comes across.
> 
> That was pretty much it.

And "pretty much it" pretty much defines how I'm trying to change my
perspective on RTC entries. I'm sure it occurred to you that you could
have told a similar story in a more comples OR more minimal way, but
this would have presented additional time- and energy-consuming
challenges for diminishing (in the viewer's perspective) returns. Here,
it seems you've allowed the theme to settle into its natural niche.
Doing otherwise might very likely have meant no one would have seen it
at all. Eleven isn't a lot of entries. Just a few fewer and this would
not have been a success.

 -Shay

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"shay" <sha### [at] nonenone> wrote in message news:461e9adb$1@news.povray.org...

> It would delight me if Steve changed the name from RTContest to
> RTChallenge. Let this have the spirit of a five mile race. Sure, someone
> will win, but even the last person across the finish line will have run
> five miles. Five miles isn't THAT much, is it?

   Nah, I could do five miles jogging with my son easily enough, but I might 
not be alive at the end of it...  ;)

   I like RT'Challenge' a LOT Shay!

   That's what it will now mean. *Thank you*!

       ~Steve~





> -Shay

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shay wrote:
> And "pretty much it" pretty much defines how I'm trying to change my
> perspective on RTC entries.

Up late after a great night, still working on my 'before and after'
entry, and I want to elaborate on what I said earlier.

When I see a good local band, as I did tonight, my first thought is that
I aught to go home and practice with my guitar afterwards. I practice
often with the hope of becoming at least good enough to compose basic
music for the many songs I write, but, truth is, guitar doesn't come
easily to me and I will likely never be capable of playing anything
extraordinary.

Second thought: "Hey, wait a second! There IS something which does come
easily to me and in which I am VERY practiced." So, I often come home
intending to create something extraordinary in POV-Ray.

And where are all of these extraordinary pictures? Often posted to this
board, but they are only extraordinary in my attachment to them. I
inevitably cross the line of diminishing (to the viewer) return. I
become attached because of the amount of work and energy expended, even
when far less would have pleased everyone but myself just as much. As an
example, if you're anything at all like me in this respect, your Tina
Chep entry would have more significance to you had you modeled the
figures specifically for it, imagining as you did that the height of
each figure or the style of buttons on his jacket contributed in some
way to the overall effect. To the viewer, it doesn't make a bit of
difference.

Mine is a perspective that works for me, but I really want to step away
from that mindset just long enough to contribute something to this new
incarnation of the IRTC. Something which, even if I'm not especially
attached to it, will make people think, "You know, it's not just the
kiddie pool over there, those POV-Ray guys have something interesting or
high quality to offer." I think you've managed that here without going
so deep that you get into nasty things like a hyper-critical (of your
own work at first, then others') frame of mind.

 -Shay

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St. wrote:
>> "shay" <sha### [at] nonenone> wrote in message news:461e9adb$1@news.povray.org...
>> It would delight me if Steve changed the name from RTContest
>> to RTChallenge.
> 
> That's what it will now mean. *Thank you*!

Then I suppose I'm delighted. :)

 -Shay

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Very nicely put, Shay. I mostly feel that way too.

Thomas

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