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Is it just me, or has the overall quality of IRTC entries dropped
significantly in recent months?
Browsing the current round's viewing page, I'm seing some
thrown-together entries, which were obviously tossed together in a
modeller in haste (of course, you'd never know how they were created.)
Okok, the contest is open to all, and I haven't exactly put together
some stellar images, but I really question the amount of effort an image
has taken when there's no mention of tools, renderer, modeller, or even
descriptive text, not to mention the description of how the image was made.
Honestly, I'm thankful I can't vote this round. I would have had an
exteme temptation to "slap" some of the images.
To me, the IRTC has always been about putting your best effort
forward... That's most of the reason why I enter only infrequently,
because I don't have ideas, or I cannot commit any real effort!
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> Browsing the current round's viewing page, I'm seing some
> thrown-together entries, which were obviously tossed together in a
> modeller in haste (of course, you'd never know how they were created.)
Well, lots of them seem to be school entries. Even on those that aren't,
there are a shocking number of comments of the form "I didn't really
have time to finish this one off", where it shows in the picture.
There are only so many points you can give to a couple of boxes with
standard Bryce textures on a standard Bryce background. OK, they may be
children, so I can't be too harsh, but you wouldn't expect a school
English class to be shortlisted for the Booker Prize either (well,
except in my primary school, where we ran our own Booker Prize), so you
wouldn't expect them to do well in a contest populated by world-class CG
artists either.
The difference between the best entries, the good entries, and the
scribbles is of epic proportions, one might say.
btw, I think I might have lost this one... there are at least six
entries better than mine.
Daniel
--
Misinformation followed us like a plague You can beat us with wires
Nobody knew from time to time You can beat us with chains
If the plans had changed You can run out your rules but you know
.: www.doublezero.uklinux.net :. You can't outrun the history train
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"Mike Raiford" <mra### [at] hotmail com> wrote in message
news:40ead9cb@news.povray.org...
> Is it just me, or has the overall quality of IRTC entries dropped
> significantly in recent months?
>
as a long time spectator of irtc, i agree. in Epic proportions, there were a
lot of images that may have been more appropriate as a "my first image" in a
relevant forum. Of course, there were good images and interesting
interpretations as well. Maybe the springtime isn't the best for irtc?
If i can make a broad statement, i was disappointed in the generally
uninteresting interpretations of the theme, with some notable exceptions. I
think i am going to enter this round, but we'll see. i don't want to submit
garbage, nor do I want to submit something common and dull. i had many more
ideas for Epic Proportions pop into my head than Desert.
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> Is it just me, or has the overall quality of IRTC entries dropped
> significantly in recent months?
It's not just you. I noticed the same trend.
The real question is... how can we change that? Is there any way?
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> To me, the IRTC has always been about putting your best effort
> forward... That's most of the reason why I enter only infrequently,
> because I don't have ideas, or I cannot commit any real effort!
>
That's the only real answer. It only takes one great image to raise the
quality. If not you, who?
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Jim Charter wrote:
> Mike Raiford wrote:
>
>> To me, the IRTC has always been about putting your best effort
>> forward... That's most of the reason why I enter only infrequently,
>> because I don't have ideas, or I cannot commit any real effort!
>>
> That's the only real answer. It only takes one great image to raise the
> quality. If not you, who?
I see what you mean. 20 entries w no description; about a third of the
total. Almost certainly a class or something. Since there seems to be
an unusual number of female names in teh group. Nothing really wrong
with that though.
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Program ended abnormally on 06/07/2004 18:48, Due to a catastrophic Jim Charter
error:
> Jim Charter wrote:
>
> 20 entries w no description; about a third of the total.
> Almost certainly a class or something. Since there seems to be
> an unusual number of female names in teh group. Nothing really wrong
> with that though.
I think it's pretty obvious by now that we have a class participating in the
IRTC*. For the last few rounds there been a bunch of images on the same theme
(this time it's buildings) with little or no comments in the accompanying files.
I don't think this is a problem. Although the quality of those images might be
below what we've come to expect from some IRTC regulars, it doesn't hurt to have
more participants. Think about it, if that class wasn't there, there would only
be about 50 participants. On top of it, one or two of them might decide to
continue participating in future rounds and his or herskills might improve.
* On the other hand, it might be someone "diluting" the vote with a bunch of low
quality entries. But I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt.
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* videotron.ca */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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Francois Labreque <fla### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> I think it's pretty obvious by now that we have a class participating in the
> IRTC*. For the last few rounds there been a bunch of images on the same theme
> (this time it's buildings) with little or no comments in the accompanying files.
Yes, and they're all using bryce & rhino, and the image size is always the
bryce default. The no description in file is annoying, if this is an
assignment it would be nice if the teacher also required them to spend a
couple of minutes writing a textfile.
> Although the quality of those images might be below what we've come to
> expect from some IRTC regulars, it doesn't hurt to have more participants.
> Think about it, if that class wasn't there, there would only be about 50
> participants.
Provided they aren't driving the regulars away in disgust... This is the
third or fourth time someone has commented on the "lower standards".
> On top of it, one or two of them might decide to
> continue participating in future rounds and his or herskills might improve.
True, already a few have made repeat entries, a couple of them actually show
some sense of composition, and have gotten away from the stock bryce
textures and skies, and started experimenting on their own. Having made my
own first forays into 3d with bryce, I know that bryce's deep texture
editor is intimidating for a beginner. Those ones I tend to encourage with
my scores and comments.
RG
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I'm a bit irritated too, but it's mostly due to the IRTC management
rather than the entries quality. I can't stand waiting days and weeks
for every single step in the voting process, so I decided to stop
putting my efforts in this competition until something happens. Of
course, I'm not personnally a big loss, but this might be true for good
people too like Gille, Jaime and so many others ?
When the good entrants don't participate the global quality lowers, it's
mecanical. IMHO having some basic images in the competition is not
really the problem, they are here for the promotion of raytracing, the
real problem is the little number of high quality images.
JC
Mike Raiford wrote:
> Is it just me, or has the overall quality of IRTC entries dropped
> significantly in recent months?
>
> Browsing the current round's viewing page, I'm seing some
> thrown-together entries, which were obviously tossed together in a
> modeller in haste (of course, you'd never know how they were created.)
>
> Okok, the contest is open to all, and I haven't exactly put together
> some stellar images, but I really question the amount of effort an image
> has taken when there's no mention of tools, renderer, modeller, or even
> descriptive text, not to mention the description of how the image was made.
>
> Honestly, I'm thankful I can't vote this round. I would have had an
> exteme temptation to "slap" some of the images.
>
> To me, the IRTC has always been about putting your best effort
> forward... That's most of the reason why I enter only infrequently,
> because I don't have ideas, or I cannot commit any real effort!
>
>
>
--
http://exether.free.fr/irtc (more IRTC stats !)
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Hi Mike,
glad, that you mentioned this. I formerly adored the artwork shown in the
IRTC. But after a short pause (of five years indeed), it ist obvious to me,
how far the overall quality dropped.
You're absolutely right.
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> Yes, and they're all using bryce & rhino, and the image size is always the
> bryce default. The no description in file is annoying, if this is an
> assignment it would be nice if the teacher also required them to spend a
> couple of minutes writing a textfile.
Or may be, all fields should obligatory (for both ftp and http submission).
> > Think about it, if that class wasn't there, there would only be about 50
> > participants.
Indeed and being "1st over 80" is much better than being "1st over 40"
But in the same, we should consider that having low quality contestant may
not be good for the competition and the website as it may attract less
viewer (they are lot of other rendering competition), CD's content may drop
in quality.
Tommy
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Maybe have a dual level competition. Those who have ever made it to the top
10 (or top n or was a winner (and maybe those who received honours)) in any
competition will be graduated to the "winner circle"/"master level"/"god
level" competition... But then I can see a situation where the lower level
winners may not be that masterful and still win and then get promoted even
though the quality won't match that of the others in the upper level
competition... But then I guess the upper level guys can vote on the
winners for promotion I suppose.
But then this will probably make the maintainers freak in the amount of
maintenance they'll have to do which will cause even more delays... Ah,
nevermind.
"tommy" <tom### [at] webkenyacom> wrote in message
news:web.40ee7c1ceecdf21a472d3920@news.povray.org...
> Indeed and being "1st over 80" is much better than being "1st over 40"
> But in the same, we should consider that having low quality contestant may
> not be good for the competition and the website as it may attract less
> viewer (they are lot of other rendering competition), CD's content may
drop
> in quality.
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"rob" <rob### [at] nmoisnptaemcca> wrote:
> Maybe have a dual level competition. Those who have ever made it to
the top
> 10 (or top n or was a winner (and maybe those who received honours))
in any
> competition will be graduated to the "winner circle"/"master level"/"god
> level" competition...
That's a tough call, given that most of us can never hit that level
consistently. I see only a handful of artists in all of the past rounds
who could be in the honor roll multiple rounds. Most of us get our
kicks if one entry out of several makes the top 10, but then its back
down to the middle of the heap.
> But then I can see a situation where the lower level
> winners may not be that masterful and still win and then get promoted
even
> though the quality won't match that of the others in the upper level
> competition...
Or else the 'Top' level starts to look like the 'regular crowd' without
the class assignments.
I think the proper response is for all us Povers to get more active.
Those 20 bryce default entries only dominate because there aren't 80 Pov
entries blowing them out of the water. (Yes, I'm guilty, I permitted
real life to interfere with my Poving... but I WILL get an entry in this
round.)
So I'm CHALLENGING all the Povers on this newsgroup... ENTER THIS ROUND!
I DARE YOU!
Mwaaaa ha ha HA HA HA HA!!!!!!
RG - and because if you don't, you'll have to look at not only a bunch
of miserable Bryce wannabes, but also a bunch of gorgeous Terragen skies
with wimpy yellow dunes scattered underneath
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> Is it just me, or has the overall quality of IRTC entries dropped
> significantly in recent months?
>
It's a generational thing. Stick to POV long enough, as many of the best
IRTC performers have, and your focus narrows. Just like any other hobby.
When you buy your first aquarium, you are feel the need to run in and
explore every Shopping Mall pet store. By the time you realize why a
perfect Tancho Taisho Sanke costs fifteen thousand dollars, you've all
but forgotten about neon-tetras (of course, this works just as well the
other way around).
-Shay
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"Shay" <sah### [at] simcopartscom> wrote in message
news:40f3e124@news.povray.org...
> Mike Raiford wrote:
> > Is it just me, or has the overall quality of IRTC entries dropped
> > significantly in recent months?
> >
>
> It's a generational thing. Stick to POV long enough, as many of the best
> IRTC performers have, and your focus narrows. Just like any other hobby.
> When you buy your first aquarium, you are feel the need to run in and
> explore every Shopping Mall pet store. By the time you realize why a
> perfect Tancho Taisho Sanke costs fifteen thousand dollars, you've all
> but forgotten about neon-tetras (of course, this works just as well the
> other way around).
>
> -Shay
neon tetras rocked! i always wanted HORDES of them but it was always my
money i was spending and i also wanted baseball and football cards :)
football cards won out.
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Ross wrote:
> neon tetras rocked! i always wanted HORDES of them but it was always my
> money i was spending and i also wanted baseball and football cards :)
> football cards won out.
Ooooh, I feel an image coming on... an aquarium full of neon football
cards... hmmmm... can that be related somehow to desert?
RG
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gonzo wrote:
> Ooooh, I feel an image coming on... an aquarium full of neon football
> cards... hmmmm... can that be related somehow to desert?
Fill the aquarium with dry sand?
--
~Mike
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"Ralf Schulz" <new### [at] doc-ralfde> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> glad, that you mentioned this. I formerly adored the artwork shown in the
> IRTC. But after a short pause (of five years indeed), it ist obvious to me,
> how far the overall quality dropped.
>
> You're absolutely right.
I wonder if the IRTC is suffering competition from contests that happen on
other boards (e.g. CGTalk). I really like the IRTC, and it's attention to
free and open source tools, but I think some changes would help.
- More activity on the site. To a new visitor, the place looks dead,
especially if new topics take forever to show up. Also, more news and
updates, and some kind of "presence" from a maintainer would help, I think.
- An updated "look". The site is clean and practical, but it sort of smacks
of the websites of yesteryear, IMHO. I think an update would help its
image.
I think the first point is the most vital. I think a greater sense of
community and a higher cohesiveness would be of great benefit. If there's
any way that I can help this effort, feel free to contact me.
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"Ralf Schulz" <new### [at] doc-ralfde> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> glad, that you mentioned this. I formerly adored the artwork shown in the
> IRTC. But after a short pause (of five years indeed), it ist obvious to me,
> how far the overall quality dropped.
>
> You're absolutely right.
I was just thinking about these issues myself. A few years ago (when
systems had smaller scale and you had to really tweak polys to render in a
lifetime), there were such ammazing images that blew me away. Today, while
resolutions, and rendering speed, as well as tools and practice are
supposed to be improving, the quality seems to be on the decrease. I am
not sure myself why this is going on.
I had a theory all the good talent was moving away to the Alienware
challenges etc, however hardly any pov users are there, so what has
happened? Maybe the users of povray are on the decrease as a whole?
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Does this mean we can correlate the number of female contenders with the low
quality of the images?
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