"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "Droj" <803### [at] drojde> wrote:
>
> > Thanks BE for enlightening me.
> >
> > Sometimes my stubborn brain is running wild.
>
> Hey - we all get these bouts of frustration that are usually linked to some
> inability to make some scene element or perform some necessary pre-rendering
> thing that most all regular computer languages have - either inbuilt, or in a
> library.
>
> The thing is - all of that stuff is usually the product of some massive team of
> paid professional computer developers who take orders from above.
>
> So, there's money, all the time those people are working on that stuff 100% of
> their work day ( ;) ), the education and expertise - and usually management and
> a customer base that drives expectations and productivity.
>
> At the present time, we have virtually none of that.
>
> So some of us do the next best thing and try to implement features that we'd
> like to see in macros/SDL, so that perhaps in the future some developer will
> have the code ready to go, and just have to translate it into C, C++, or
> whatever language POV-Ray 4.0 might end up being.
>
> > I have a high esteem for all of you who are developing Povray further.
> >
> > So take my apologies if I stepped on someones toe. I did not mean to offend
> > anybody.
>
> We've all done a fair bit of shoving on our own.   No harm, no foul.
> If there's any code or explanations you'd like for any of the myriad projects
> that I've worked on, just let me know.
>
> Some of the things I've worked on have taken me YEARS - because I've needed to
> happen across some article or video that explains it in a way that I can grasp
> the underlying concept - or more importantly, its implementation.
>
> Bezier curves was a big one, but Voronoi (and Delaunay) is something that I've
> wanted to have a user-controlled version of for a very, VERY long time.  I
> finally watched a video where the code was minimal enough that I was able to
> copy it, and then "see through" all of the extraneous crap and have the critical
> "AHA!!!!!" moment where the dirt simple concept AND implementation were suddenly
> clear.   And BOY did I feel stoopid.
>
> Now, once I understood the basic practical implementation, the inevitable
> exploration and expansion of the code to address certain issues and make it a
> much more production-type code that was amenable to adding to the source-code as
> an inbuilt-pattern is just something that I was doing to really solidify the
> idea in my head, and find ways to circumvent the limitations of the initial
> proof-of-concept.
>
> We have all delved into projects where someone else's code just looks like some
> big pile of WTF, or worse, sat in front of the Editor unable to make the scene
> elements that we want, because we just don't have the necessary inbuilt tools,
> programming experience, or mathematical foundations to even begin making the
> things that we want.
>
> Go back to 2102/2013 when I really started to heavily use POV-Ray for
> everything, and you'll all the dumb mistakes, misunderstandings, ignorance,
> frustration, complaining, whining, and hacktastic piles of abysmal code that I
> tried my best to pump out on a tiny little laptop that resembled a cheap
> Chromebook.
>
> Gotta start somewhere.  Gotta pick something, and doggedly pursue it - finding
> every link, book, article, video, live-coding session, posting on forums where
> people are super math/computer snobs and condescending Ay Wholes, emailing
> professors and graduate students about their work or postings, .... until one
> day, 2+ years later, you finally figure it out and somehow get it to work.
>
> I was never taught matrices, linear algebra, statistics, projective geometry, or
> any of the topics that I've shoved my nose into.   I had 15 min of differential
> equations when I took physical chemistry back in .... 1993??  So after 30 years,
> I hit that wall of ignorance/forgetfulness, and that was a 1-year delay until I
> got the motivation to relearn partial second derivatives.
>
> So, there's a lot that goes into just 1 "feature" to get a basic code base, and
> then it has to be translated into "production code" that has all sorts of sanity
> checks, and plays well with the different math solvers and layers of textures
> and finishes, and ... and.... and ....
>
>
> ..... and we have no one to do that right now.
>
> So a coding we will go, until we find someone to write source code, or one of us
> learns enough C or C++ to start writing the source code - probably in an
> unofficial fork.   Like hgPOVRay38 or povr.  MegaPOV and UberPOV.  Etc.
>
>
> - BE


>

Hi BE,

I am completely with you!

> Hey - we all get these bouts of frustration that are usually linked to some
> inability to make some scene element or perform some necessary pre-rendering
> thing that most all regular computer languages have - either inbuilt, or in a
> library.
>

You used the word frustration which is what I feel when I find an interesting
macro or coding that works amazingly well but which seems to be sort of
unfinished or not fully developed. And I do not have the knowledge to add the
code that is necessary to fill in the 'gaps' I identified.
E.g. I like when a macro outputs a file with the 3D data used to produce the
image. So I added some code I copied and adapted. My goodness, it was
devastating and definitely frustrating. Nothing really worked.
I guess a tutorial would help a lot - at least it would relieve frustration -
maybe.

> We've all done a fair bit of shoving on our own.   No harm, no foul.
> If there's any code or explanations you'd like for any of the myriad projects
> that I've worked on, just let me know.
>
I really appreciate your generous offer.
For the time being I'll keep my big mouth shut, work on my Povray website and
forget about trying new macros and other new things that emerge here in the
forums (I guess the plural is fora :))).

> Gotta start somewhere.  Gotta pick something, and doggedly pursue it - finding...
>
That's called persistence. But when you are of a certain age you forget more
than you learn and what's driving you is quick success. It's like: see it, read
it, try it, adjust it and... alas: here is the miraculous outcome... or forget
it. That is the bloody user in me!

> I was never taught matrices, linear algebra, statistics, projective geometry, or ...
>
Same here and no intention to dive in. There is no space for maths when
chemistry took over.
So, thanks again for the encouraging words and insights.

- Droj

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