Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:

> I will NOT stand by and allow a
> 3.x release out that does not meet that same standard and if I do so I
> will be letting them all down. This is a responsibility I take seriously
> and I will not relent.

3.8 is in alpha.  End users _should_ know what that means, and 3.7 is still
available for those that want to use it.  I and others have been using 3.8 for
long enough that maybe it should be a beta?   I don't use M$ anymore - is there
a 3.8 windows executable?
If anything, it would look very nice on the website to have recent update, to
show that there's still active development, and provide a handy link to GitHub
or whatever the official channel would be...

> As long as 3.7 continues to operate as designed on modern operating
> systems and CPU's it's not broken and there is no pressing need to
> replace it.

There's not - but 3.8 has a lot of features that Christoph worked his ass off to
implement, and it would be great for people to use those, appreciate the
differences and improvements, and find any little lingering problems that might
be hidden in there.
[Why is everyone looking at _me_...?]

> Yes I'd like to see 3.8 out. Yes we need help to do so. I
> had decided to move development discussions to one of these groups so it
> is in public and ask for assistance from users; in particular as no-one
> in the current team is able to take on the job of managing the release I
> was going to ask for volunteers from here.

I sincerely doubt that I have the skills or round tuits required to do that, but
it would be helpful to anyone considering it to know what "managing the release"
typically entails.

> As for the website: again I was going to post a longer explanation but
> I'll simply say the box it's running on is 15 years old, on its last
> legs, difficult to manage/upgrade as it's in the US and I'm not and no
> longer has a working IPKVM, and does not run a CMS to speak of. I'm
> loath to touch it in any meaningful way until I have it replaced.

AFAIK, it's in CT, and D.B. has physical access.
I've asked before how much is stored on it, and what it would take to simply
_copy_ the content, lest a HDD crash wipe out nearly 25 years of images, scene
files, includes, etc.
I'm sure there might be a few folks who would pay for a USB stick with all of
the files on it.  IIRC, they're now commonly available in 128 GB sizes...
(It truly boggles the mind!  :O)


> ... I want to
> make one thing clear to those who seem to think that I somehow 'owe' the
> community a Moray release. Moray was NOT 'given' to the POV-Ray project.
> I purchased it from the author.

A short 2-3 lines of text on the website about that would take care of any
misconceptions - even by new users.

It's that crappy situation where you don't "deserve" for people to give you a
hard time - but, in the absence of heading of any such assumptions and resulting
commentary - given human nature being what it is, what did you expect?
I'm trying to mean and communicate that in a helpful way - so you can hopefully
avoid any such future annoyances.

I was curious about who is still involved, in what way, if they are still alive,
in contact, actively working, etc.
There's a POV-Team, a dev team, a TAG team ...   what else?
How many different computer systems are at play?
The newsgroups, the object collection, the Moray website, ...  what else?

http://news.povray.org/povray.off-topic/message/%3Cweb.5f0077dd17b7b05ffb0b41570%40news.povray.org%3E/#%3Cweb.5f0077dd1
7b7b05ffb0b41570%40news.povray.org%3E

POV-Ray is ... a company? At least for the purposes of being on paper?
Money gets spent - does money come in?  Is there a balance?
Are there corporate or academic interests that help keep POV-Ray afloat and in
active development?

I mean, I don't mean to give you a hard time, but your post was short - but it
was light on the points it was "to".
"There are some issues in play that most people would not expect."  That still
seems to be a bit of a cliffhanger.

And really, I guess, as TdG has said, "For a number of years I too have
been wondering what really was going on behind the scene, with sometimes
getting a hint about possible issues...."

So, my puzzlement and curiosity are due to the fact that there is even a "behind
the scenes" at all.  It seems odd to me that there is a lot of time and effort
and money spent on a piece of software that is --- for what? --- if not the end
users?  I'm not saying that in an entitled way - I'm raising it in all
seriousness.  If you personally are not rendering images or animations, then why
all the personal cost and aggravation for something that is publicly available
for free?  The sensible, though naive answer would be "so that people can use
it".
And I believe that this is where the rub comes into play.
The people using it have their own goals and desires.
In the absence of any information to the contrary, people will communicate those
desires based on assumptions they will naturally make.  That's unavoidable human
nature.
And POV-Ray being around for 25 years with a website and newsgroup with a
history that reaches very very far back, and all the perceived talk of teams and
devs and versions, ...   I think it's hard to blame people for their perceptions
being their reality.

Perhaps there is not "secrecy" - but there seems to be an abundance of
....privacy?  ...silence? with regard to "Persistence of Vision Raytracer Pty.
Ltd."  which gives rise to confusion, baseless but nevertheless natural
assumptions/presumptions, and the inevitable misconceptions and
miscommunications - and perhaps even misbehaviour.   ;)
I'm just expressing this as my perception - it seems that there's a weird
"overabundance of caution" and a lot of talking _around_ a topic rather than
just saying something directly (with a few disclaimers).

I think it would be a shame for all those tens of thousands of hours of effort
to fade into obscurity.   As I've stated before - POV-Ray could use some
exposure, advertising, social media presence, and fundraising.  New users with
the enthusiasm and energy and talent that is needed to make that 3.8 happen.
And that's an observation, not an assignment of blame.

I have posted things here and there on Minds.com, Xephula.com, Pocketnet.app -
I'm sure an animation channel on Bitchute.com or Brighteon, or other
video-hosting sites would provide some exposure.  It would simply seem to me
improper to create "POV-Ray" channels since I'm not in any way officially
associated with the company - and post other people's content, although I
suppose links could work...

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