Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> And no, I don't think so. I mean, after all, what did it take to
> convince the Romans? Jesus returning to life, performing all sorts of
> miracles. Why is it egotistical for me, and not for Apostle Thomas?
There's these guys stating they saw something. Apparently you don't believe
them. Fine. Do you then disbelieve Chinese recording the 1054 supernova? Do you
disbelieve historians of centuries past? If not, why not?
>
> Of course, when you start from the axiom that God is real, present, and
> obvious, then anyone who doubts is insulting said God. When you start
> from the premise that God isn't real, the obvious question that springs
> to mind is "what, outside the Bible, should I look at to be convinced?"
If there was an answer to that, the question would be meaningless, no?
>
> Here's a question for you: What would it take you to convince you that
> ESP is real? Would you consider yourself egotistical to ask to see an
> actual ESP experiment that succeeded? Or is just reading Doctor Mesmer's
> writing good enough for you? If you came across a book written in the
> 1700s talking about how there was this one guy who could predict what
> card was coming up next in the deck, would that convince you that ESP is
> real? If not, why not?
Depends if it was his deck or not, I guess. ;-)
<snip>
> Do you see how you're starting from the presumption that you know you're
> right? Do you see how each response you make implies that the God I
> would wind up believing in is the same one you believe in?
As opposed to atheists, who just know there is no God?
> That while I
> should believe in your God without miracles, believing in someone else's
> God even with miracles is wrong?
You lost me there.
> >> A faith healer who can regenerate amputated limbs through the power of
> >> touch.
>
> Funny how nobody seems to argue with this one, isn't it?
>
If you insist. Does limb regeneration without a healer count? Have you ever
heard of Bunuel, the spanish movie director? He was an atheist of the
Christian-bashing variety. He was born in a small village, I believe, that had
had the only limb regeneration miracle I ever heard of. Even though atheist,
Bunuel would eat alive anybody who raised even the slightest doubt on the limb
regrowing.
> The Vatican has a lightning rod on the top. Clearly, someone believes
> prayer by the Pope is insufficient to prevent burning down St Paul's.
Would that be St Peter?
>
> > Churches are human institutions and are just
> > as fallible and bound to the original sin.
>
> Even the Mayan temples? The Pele shrines? See how you assume you're right?
Looks to me he assumes he's right about as much as you do.
> In any case, I thought baptism got rid of original sin or something? Is
> the Pope really still being punished in this world for Original Sin? I
> thought believing in Jesus and/or doing the right rituals got rid of
> that original sin? That whole "Jesus died for our sins" isn't right? Is
> there anything one can do to stop being punished for Adam's "sin"?
>
That is correct. For Christians baptism gets rid of original sin.
> --
>    Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
>      It's not feature creep if you put it
>      at the end and adjust the release date.

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