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On 24/07/2020 15:14, Pekka Aho wrote:
> I found POV back in the late '93, when a family friend gave me a 3.5" disk with
> a version 2.0 on it. I think it was included on some PC magazine of that time
> and there was a huge article on 3D and ray-tracing. I remember printing out the
> whole povdoc file with our dot matrix printer, and oh the joy of even trying to
> render anything with a 386SX 16 MHz. :D Somewhere during the first half of '94
> we got a 486DX2 66 MHz in the house, and also got my hands on POV version 2.2,
> so things started rollin' wild for real. Although a ray-tracing joke for some,
> but at least I have ever since updated my comps according to how fast I can
> render with POV. :D
For me, I first came across raytracing in the late 80's when I
experimented with one on am Amiga. I don't recall which one it was but
remember that I liked the fact I could make decent-looking images by
typing rather than painting with a mouse (I'm no artist and can barely
draw a straight line).
In the early 90's I started working on a project where the product
rolled out to the customer needed to run on a high-end workstation (and
as such all the developers needed them too). The end result of this was
that shortly thereafter each of us had a very sweet (for the time) 60mHz
64-bit DEC Alpha tower loaded with 32MB of RAM appear under our desks.
Now compared to the typical PC of the day this was a monster. Most PC's
were still running 16-bit DOS and maybe had a few MB ram at most, and
here I was with a 64-bit footwarmer with 10x the RAM and 10x the speed
of my home PC that was sitting idle 99.9% of the time as we hadn't yet
written the applications they were bought for and had nothing else
really compute-intensive to run on them.
Obviously I wasn't going to let this remain the case. I needed something
to stress this beast out and given you can't really just pop into the
local computer store and come out with something that can run on OpenVMS
I needed to build it myself.
Since I had a Compuserve account I logged in and looked for a raytracer
that had source code available, found POV-Ray v1 then set about getting
it working under VMS. Once I did so I let the devs know about the port
(as there wasn't a VMS one available at the time).
A little later on we decided that OpenVMS wasn't going to cut it for the
project we were working on and switched to OSF/1, which was a
Mach-kernel based Unix variant for the Alpha (cue picture of me sitting
in front of a pile of about 40 3.5" floppies slowly feeding them one by
one ...)
I then built a console-based POV port for OSF/1 (not hard as it's pretty
straightforward) but as I wanted to be able to see render progress I
added code that would show a render preview via X Windows and
contributed that to the project as well. Somewhere in this timespan
Chris Young invited me to be the maintainer for the VMS or Unix port (or
both, don't quite recall) and here I am today.
-- Chris
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospam com> wrote:
>
> It's always fun to see folks who were around in the early days on
> CompuServe. :)
Ah, sadly I wasn't having any online activity at that time, sorry. :O I had a
1200 bit/s modem, but it was never used. Here in Finland it was still quite
expensive to call anywhere, thus my resort was those few (yet also costly)
import magazines with utility disks wrapped along. Those were from where I later
got a newer version of POV too in addition to those many trial versions of other
software.
A good friend of mine had the possibility to access several bulletin boards, but
those were rather quick visits for getting us some shareware games every now and
then.
Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>
> But I always held those who worked in SDL directly and could translate
> their vision (not just shapes, but textures - I am awful at textures) in
> very high regard. Giles Tran, Shay, and so many others produced
> absolutely jaw-dropping images; for me, it was like watching an
> illusionist perform magic and not knowing (or caring) how it was done.
Indeed and same here, my highest respect to Tran, Shay, Hormann, Piqueres, Kern
and so many others for their stunningly mind-blowing works! Even though feeling
most comfortable with the SDL, I'm still far from all that. Already long time
ago I embraced my destiny and ever since been concentrating mostly on game style
art with anything else but realistic textures etc., as actual simulations of
reality in any level of accuracy is still completely beyond my head. :D
Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>
> Today I play in Blender when I need to put something together, but
> getting the POV-Ray plugin going is something that I've not fully
> completed. I need to get back on that and re-render some of my more
> recent images with it. It'd be interesting to see the differences in
> output compared to Cycles.
I must confess - with a slight sting in my heart - that lately I've been
fiddling around with a Finnish software called Realsoft 3D (formerly as Real
3D). It has a history going back to the Amiga times, and was too expensive for
my budget back in the day. A couple of years ago they released the version 8 and
it was just 200 EUR (~ 233 USD), so finally gave it a go. I remember this one
from the early 90s as well, so at last I can see and try myself what it is
about. The render output is surprisingly close to that of POVs btw.
=====
Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
>
> For me, I first came across raytracing in the late 80's when I
> experimented with one on am Amiga. I don't recall which one it was but
> remember that I liked the fact I could make decent-looking images by
> typing rather than painting with a mouse (I'm no artist and can barely
> draw a straight line).
I think I found the actual concept/idea of ray-tracing a couple of years earlier
than POV. I was right there blown away with this "new world of computer
graphics", and I was dreaming of one day doing all that stuff myself. Then came
POV and that's where I discovered my path to salvation. :D
Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
>
> In the early 90's I started working on a project where the product
> rolled out to the customer needed to run on a high-end workstation (and
> as such all the developers needed them too). The end result of this was
> that shortly thereafter each of us had a very sweet (for the time) 60mHz
> 64-bit DEC Alpha tower loaded with 32MB of RAM appear under our desks.
>
> Now compared to the typical PC of the day this was a monster. Most PC's
> were still running 16-bit DOS and maybe had a few MB ram at most, and
> here I was with a 64-bit footwarmer with 10x the RAM and 10x the speed
> of my home PC that was sitting idle 99.9% of the time as we hadn't yet
> written the applications they were bought for and had nothing else
> really compute-intensive to run on them.
Oh yes the DEC Alpha! It surely was my wet dream (right next to those
over-the-top Silicon Graphics workstations). :D There was this one big computer
store in Helsinki that I used to visit very often, and at some point they had an
Alpha set-up in one corner. The price tag on it was astronomical thus way out of
reach for any common mortal. It may be it was just for some presentation
purposes afterall, as like your said, the applications weren't many yet.
Regardless, I was like Homer Simpson gurgling over a donut when cautiously
touching the machine for the first time in the store. :D
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On 7/24/20 9:27 PM, jr wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> ...
>> Calling me a liar, however, when I haven't engaged in telling
>> falsehoods....That's a question of integrity. You specifically called me
>> a liar for saying I wasn't a part of TAG, ...
>
> </sigh>
>
> # jr 21.7 2145
> you have admin privilege for the news server, and the wiki, afaik, and, guessing
> here, for the main website.
>
> # JH 21.7 2208
> I don't have admin privileges for the news server or the wiki (any more).
>
> # jr 21.7 2340
> can you even point to any ng post in the last, uh, four years or so, where you,
> or a member of the mysterious TAG, has asked for help with anything?
>
> # jr 22.7 1630
> so my understanding of NNTP is that once a post has "gone through", ...
> therefore, without admin privileges (or an indebted djinn) you, as "another end
> user", ought not to have been able to withdraw your post (with haste :-)).
>
> # JH 22.7 1727
> Your understanding of NNTP is incorrect. No admin privileges are needed to
> cancel your own posts or supersede them. It's a common thing to do in the
> USENET world.
>
> # JH 22.7 2156
> I await your apology for insinuating that I lied to you about my role in the
> project.
>
> # JH 23.7 1513
> Your insinuation that I was lying about my involvement in the project based on
> your total lack of comprehension as to how NNTP works is
> completely separate from...
>
> # JH 23.7 2345
> I know that you know, deep down, that you behaved badly - in name-calling and in
> calling me a liar in public about my role in the project.
>
>
> so those are the key sentences from the relevant posts. I've done the legwork,
> now you do your bit. not that it matters. you, I suspect (and said before),
> are playing some kind of game (unfortunately; this thread really isn't helped by
> some .. drama queen getting over-emotional). so, I'll be brushing off the muddy
> bits from my sleeves now, because I have better use for my time than to
> entertain a [insert your expletive of choice here].
>
>
> jr.
>
BOTH of you guys are spending WAY too much time on this...
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hi,
Ash Holsenback <no### [at] spamcom> wrote:
> On 7/24/20 9:27 PM, jr wrote:
> > Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> >> ...
>
> BOTH of you guys are spending WAY too much time on this...
# jr 23.7 1755
and I apologise to the reader for continuing to carry out this .. spat in
public. netiquette, as I found out reading about message cancellation, requires
both parties to dislike one another in private :-), via email. (while mine is
available, Mr H's is not)
when the server is finally updated, maybe there will be an opportunity to change
policy, and require a valid email address when registering to post to this site.
not an unreasonable (or uncommon) requirement.
regards, jr.
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On 25.07.2020 14:57, jr wrote:
> when the server is finally updated, maybe there will be an opportunity to change
> policy, and require a valid email address when registering to post to this site.
> not an unreasonable (or uncommon) requirement.
And still zero understanding of NNTP an your behalf.
*plonk*
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hi,
Thorsten <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> On 25.07.2020 14:57, jr wrote:
> > when the server is finally updated, maybe there will be an opportunity to change
> > policy, and require a valid email address when registering to post to this site.
> > not an unreasonable (or uncommon) requirement.
>
> And still zero understanding of NNTP an your behalf.
true, I assume that registration is on a website, form based, HTTP. but I also
read the following:
"Other mechanisms are also available. For example, a proxy server could be put
in place that requires authentication before connecting via the proxy to the
NNTP server."
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3977#section-12.3>
I do not claim to understand network protocols, but I do know solutions to such
... problems can be found.
regards, jr.
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"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Thorsten <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> > On 25.07.2020 14:57, jr wrote:
> > > when the server is finally updated, maybe there will be an opportunity to change
> > > policy, and require a valid email address when registering to post to this site.
> > > not an unreasonable (or uncommon) requirement.
> >
> > And still zero understanding of NNTP an your behalf.
>
> true, I assume that registration is on a website, form based, HTTP. ...
to be clear, I think of a very common process: register on website for account,
system sends email with some unique code or temporary url, valid for a few
minutes; enter code or visit url in time and the email address is good, so can
be added to the spamfilter's whitelist. why would that be unworkable?
(and reading up on message cancellation was never going to give me NNTP
"expertise". :-))
> ...
regards, jr.
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On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 21:27:44 -0400, jr wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> ...
>> Calling me a liar, however, when I haven't engaged in telling
>> falsehoods....That's a question of integrity. You specifically called
>> me a liar for saying I wasn't a part of TAG, ...
>
> </sigh>
>
> # jr 21.7 2145 you have admin privilege for the news server, and the
> wiki, afaik, and, guessing here, for the main website.
>
> # JH 21.7 2208 I don't have admin privileges for the news server or the
> wiki (any more).
>
> # jr 21.7 2340 can you even point to any ng post in the last, uh, four
> years or so, where you, or a member of the mysterious TAG, has asked for
> help with anything?
>
> # jr 22.7 1630 so my understanding of NNTP is that once a post has "gone
> through", ... therefore, without admin privileges (or an indebted djinn)
> you, as "another end user", ought not to have been able to withdraw your
> post (with haste :-)).
Yep, here's where you said that I had privileges and standing in the
project that I didn't have.
> # JH 22.7 1727 Your understanding of NNTP is incorrect. No admin
> privileges are needed to cancel your own posts or supersede them. It's
> a common thing to do in the USENET world.
And here's where I explained that no, I don't have admin privileges. I
am just "another end user".
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 06:27:07 -0400, Ash Holsenback wrote:
> BOTH of you guys are spending WAY too much time on this...
Perhaps, but I find jr's attitude just laughable.
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 12:44:34 -0400, jr wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> Thorsten <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>> > On 25.07.2020 14:57, jr wrote:
>> > > when the server is finally updated, maybe there will be an
>> > > opportunity to change policy, and require a valid email address
>> > > when registering to post to this site.
>> > > not an unreasonable (or uncommon) requirement.
>> >
>> > And still zero understanding of NNTP an your behalf.
>>
>> true, I assume that registration is on a website, form based, HTTP.
>> ...
>
> to be clear, I think of a very common process: register on website for
> account,
> system sends email with some unique code or temporary url, valid for a
> few minutes; enter code or visit url in time and the email address is
> good, so can be added to the spamfilter's whitelist. why would that be
> unworkable?
>
> (and reading up on message cancellation was never going to give me NNTP
> "expertise". :-))
Apparently, you're not capable of research, then?
That explains a lot.
I mean, you listed things in your original comment as part of the
grievances that anyone with a basic understanding of using the internet
could help with. Say, broken links.
Identifying broken links, documenting where they are, and then either
looking for a replacement (or an archival link on one of many popular
archival sites) isn't exactly rocket science.
But it's easier to complain than it is to do something to help.
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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