On 04.07.2020 14:36, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Chris Cason<del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg>  wrote:
>> I was going to post a long reply but have come to the conclusion that
>> really it doesn't matter how we got to this point, what matters is where
>> we go.
 >
> Personally, yes.  With regard to the evolution of the code; however, the_how_
> of that is relevant and integral to understanding problems and formulating
> solutions.  We need context.

I think the first thing to understand is that the code and the language 
are the way they are by design, and that design makes a real lot of 
sense if you take a serious and not a superficial look. And yes, even 
the scoping makes a real lot of sense. As do the limitations. All this 
has to be viewed in the context of the times most of the code was 
developed at.

I can't talk for Chris, but I do (usually) check the newsgroups once a 
week, and can explain a few things here and there. I have been around 
from 3.1 to 3.7 release cycles after all.

Thorsten

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hi,

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> I was going to post a long reply but have come to the conclusion that
> really it doesn't matter how we got to this point, what matters is where
> we go.
> ...
> Where to go from here? What can you guys do to help? ...

personally, I'd like to see action on the website + wiki first.  because they're
(likely) the primary access points.

not sure I could offer any practical help, certainly not regarding code (am a
poor programmer and do not speak C++), but if I were to see a newsgroup post
asking for (other) help, I'd be happy to oblige, assuming I can meet the
requirement(s).


regards, jr.

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Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> I was going to post a long reply but have come to the conclusion that
> really it doesn't matter how we got to this point, what matters is where
> we go.
>
> Yes we have a manpower issue. Yes I have not helped by not steering the
> boat. To be honest, though, after more than 25 years involvement in the
> project I see my role more as one of keeping POV-Ray stable and making
> sure that it works as designed on modern CPU's and modern operating systems.
>
> I have not done feature development for some time and as I have moved
> away from C++ professionally (I primarily develop in C# in my day job
> nowadays) I'm really not the best person to be doing core work anymore
> (that's not to say I can't, just that I feel it's best left to someone
> who is using C++ on a regular basis).
>
> Clipka has apparently moved on to doing other things. We had been hoping
> he was just taking some time off but it's pretty clear by now that we
> can't expect him back.
>
> Where to go from here? What can you guys do to help? Good questions. Let
> me ping the other guys on our mailing list and see what they think.
>
> -- Chris

Let me first say from the perspective of the relatively new user I am, that the
*real* picture is not as dark as it seems, coming from the very fast moving and
massive  Blender community I saw the recent POV technological moves happen in
the right direction faster than what I could witness at some turningpoints in
Blender's branching history.

Mostly thanks to Clipka, who had the good sense to really synch his Uberpov
branch and move back things to trunk from it as much as he could.

If we could we would be very well inspired to gather enough money to provide
some kind of Grant for Clipka... But how to do
that?

Has it been considered to at least make him a candidate for a Google Summer of
code campaign?... I have no doubt that he will be very much over the lot of
other candidates... The tutor could be one of the chairmen.

If this is not an option or not attractive enough for him, let's come up with
other ideas to fulfill this goal (a short term but professional contract for
Clipka !)

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On 04.07.2020 22:42, Mr wrote:
> Mostly thanks to Clipka, who had the good sense to really synch his Uberpov
> branch and move back things to trunk from it as much as he could.
> 
> If we could we would be very well inspired to gather enough money to provide
> some kind of Grant for Clipka... But how to do
> that?
> 
> Has it been considered to at least make him a candidate for a Google Summer of
> code campaign?... I have no doubt that he will be very much over the lot of
> other candidates... The tutor could be one of the chairmen.
> 
> If this is not an option or not attractive enough for him, let's come up with
> other ideas to fulfill this goal (a short term but professional contract for
> Clipka !)

He obviously is long out of university and has a real day job that pays 
well. Google summer of code is a student activity.

Thorsten

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hi,

Thorsten <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> On 04.07.2020 14:36, Bald Eagle wrote:
> > Chris Cason<del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg>  wrote:
> >> ...
> > ...
> I think the first thing to understand is that the code and the language
> are the way they are by design, and that design makes a real lot of
> sense if you take a serious and not a superficial look. ...
> I have been around from 3.1 to 3.7 release cycles after all.

that would seem to make you the person to ask a technical question.  :-)

while I'm quite happy with the SDL per se, I really miss "introspection" tools.
along the lines 'typeof()' and 'obj_info()'.

so, how difficult would it be, from your perspective, to implement a 'typeof()'
function which returns an integer value (no enums, alas) that could be used like
eg (with made-up "magic" numbers):

#switch (typeof(Name))
  #case (0)
    // have an object.
    #break
  #case (1)
    // have a vector.
    #break
  ...
#end

and, if in yr opinion it's not too difficult, can you please outline (roughly)
the steps, and, perhaps, the source files likely to be involved?


regards, jr.

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Thorsten <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> On 04.07.2020 22:42, Mr wrote:
> > Mostly thanks to Clipka, who had the good sense to really synch his Uberpov
> > branch and move back things to trunk from it as much as he could.
> >
> > If we could we would be very well inspired to gather enough money to provide
> > some kind of Grant for Clipka... But how to do
> > that?
> >
> > Has it been considered to at least make him a candidate for a Google Summer of
> > code campaign?... I have no doubt that he will be very much over the lot of
> > other candidates... The tutor could be one of the chairmen.
> >
> > If this is not an option or not attractive enough for him, let's come up with
> > other ideas to fulfill this goal (a short term but professional contract for
> > Clipka !)
>
> He obviously is long out of university and has a real day job that pays
> well. Google summer of code is a student activity.
>
> Thorsten

Okay. How about all these firms using POV for benchmark... wouldn't they gold
sponsor some kind of Patreon?

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Just a followup to say that Ill be posting another update in a little while.

-- Chris

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hi,

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 02/07/2020 om 11:57 schreef jr:
> > so, the following is just me "ranting", and if you're .. of a delicate
> > disposition, do not read on.
> >
> [snip]
>
> I am glad you started this discussion. ... I believe we all would be
> helped with a bit of serious information, ...

tja..  looks like no information -- at all.  CC's "Let me ping the other guys on
our mailing list and see what they think" (Jul 4th), and "... Ill be posting
another update in a little while" (Jul 12th), had no followups.

("move on, move on, nothing to see.."?!  apparently happy to just kick the ball
in the long grass)


regards, jr.

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On 7/21/20 6:48 AM, jr wrote:
> hi,
> 
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Op 02/07/2020 om 11:57 schreef jr:
>>> so, the following is just me "ranting", and if you're .. of a delicate
>>> disposition, do not read on.
>>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> I am glad you started this discussion. ... I believe we all would be
>> helped with a bit of serious information, ...
> 
> tja..  looks like no information -- at all.  CC's "Let me ping the other guys on
> our mailing list and see what they think" (Jul 4th), and "... Ill be posting
> another update in a little while" (Jul 12th), had no followups.
> 
> ("move on, move on, nothing to see.."?!  apparently happy to just kick the ball
> in the long grass)
> 
> 
> regards, jr.
> 

well if it makes any difference...there HAS been some discussion about 
the task at hand, and i think (from what i can tell) it's not going to 
be the task...rather finding someone with the right skill set to get it 
done.

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On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 06:48:45 -0400, jr wrote:

> hi,
> 
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Op 02/07/2020 om 11:57 schreef jr:
>> > so, the following is just me "ranting", and if you're .. of a
>> > delicate disposition, do not read on.
>> >
>> [snip]
>>
>> I am glad you started this discussion. ... I believe we all would be
>> helped with a bit of serious information, ...
> 
> tja..  looks like no information -- at all.  CC's "Let me ping the other
> guys on our mailing list and see what they think" (Jul 4th), and "...
> Ill be posting another update in a little while" (Jul 12th), had no
> followups.
> 
> ("move on, move on, nothing to see.."?!  apparently happy to just kick
> the ball in the long grass)
> 
> 
> regards, jr.

What are you offering to do to help out?  Maybe you didn't notice, but 
nobody working on pov-ray is paid to do so, it's a volunteer effort.

People have lives, and I don't know if you noticed, but there's a lot of 
stuff going on in the world that has people pretty concerned.

Instead of complaining, maybe offer to help out where you can.

My $0.02.

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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