On Wed, 21 May 2008 12:38:50 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:

>> Another good one.  Funny thing, at Novell's BrainShare, they had an
>> "Oxygen Bar" set up.  Someone got to talking with the folks who were
>> running it, and asked where they got the oxygen from.  The word
>> "breathing" was used in the answer.... ;-)
> 
> Boggles the mind

Yeah, I wish I could remember the exact phrase used, because it was very 
funny.

>> "New and Improved" is one that always gets me.  Oh, and "Organic" - as
>> if the other option is "Inorganic".  Yuck.
> 
> Monster Raving Looney Party Manifesto Pledge #129: Manufacturers will be
> made to compensate for the "Old and Inferior" goods that they have now
> replaced with "New and Improved"

I like it. ;-)

> I just heard the oxygen claim and thought "What, is the tube pumped with
> it or something?" I mean you could just add more water, oops sorry aqua,
> and gain 'oxygen'.

LOL

>>> And it's normally white text on a light background too.
>>
>> In 3 point font.  One that's difficult to read.
> 
> We do have some standards IIRC it has to be deemed as legible on a
> 'standard' screen and thus can't be too small, on exactly the same
> colour background or appear for just 1 sec.

Ah, but "legible" by whom?  I used to print notes out in 2 point on 3x5 
cards for my chemistry exams using Lotus ... um, ... I forget the name of 
the program now - got the boxes downstairs still.  Started with an F.  
Damn, that's going to bug me now.

Of course, my vision has become slightly less good since then. ;)

>>> One of them said this herself 'If I'm spending £50 on a cosmetic then
>>> I'd expect to see a difference'.
>>
>> Heh.  Well duh. ;-)
> 
> But it does highlight that the entire '% noticed a difference' may have
> some flaws

Absolutely.  In learning evaluation (something I measure in my job using 
an established methodology), one question asked frequently is "how much 
of your job performance improved as a result of this training?" - and 
answers are a percentage.  Behind-the-scenes, the entered values are 
averaged and then adjusted downwards by something like 15% because people 
tend to overstate, particularly right after class.

Same principle applies here - but I think also that people want the 
percentage to be higher as a result of having paid what they paid, so 
that's what they report.

>> Wish I'd seen that one.  I'd have paid for that. ;-)
> 
> You've got 16 hours left if the link works outside the UK, but [sigh] it
> needs WMP11 to play.

Well even if it doesn't work outside the UK, tor solves that problem for 
me.

>> Gotta love deniability.  They should send someone into one of the
>> training sessions on the products - POS staff does need to be trained
>> on the products, you know.
> 
> Well they've done it for some shows.

I'll bet that was fun. :-)

Jim

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And lo on Thu, 22 May 2008 00:10:08 +0100, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Wed, 21 May 2008 12:38:50 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> Boggles the mind
>
> Yeah, I wish I could remember the exact phrase used, because it was very
> funny.

Always the way.

>> Monster Raving Looney Party Manifesto Pledge #129: Manufacturers will be
>> made to compensate for the "Old and Inferior" goods that they have now
>> replaced with "New and Improved"
>
> I like it. ;-)

Well I don't know if they have a USA branch... yet.

>>>> And it's normally white text on a light background too.
>>>
>>> In 3 point font.  One that's difficult to read.
>>
>> We do have some standards IIRC it has to be deemed as legible on a
>> 'standard' screen and thus can't be too small, on exactly the same
>> colour background or appear for just 1 sec.
>
> Ah, but "legible" by whom?

The Advertising Standards Authority have rules...
http://www.asa.org.uk/cap/codes/broadcast_codes/Guidance_Notes/Advertising+Guidance+Note+1.htm

> I used to print notes out in 2 point on 3x5
> cards for my chemistry exams using Lotus ... um, ... I forget the name of
> the program now - got the boxes downstairs still.  Started with an F.
> Damn, that's going to bug me now.

Freelance Graphics?

> Of course, my vision has become slightly less good since then. ;)

Odd, mine's got better :-P

>>>> One of them said this herself 'If I'm spending £50 on a cosmetic then
>>>> I'd expect to see a difference'.
>>>
>>> Heh.  Well duh. ;-)
>>
>> But it does highlight that the entire '% noticed a difference' may have
>> some flaws
>
> Absolutely.  In learning evaluation (something I measure in my job using
> an established methodology), one question asked frequently is "how much
> of your job performance improved as a result of this training?" - and
> answers are a percentage.  Behind-the-scenes, the entered values are
> averaged and then adjusted downwards by something like 15% because people
> tend to overstate, particularly right after class.

Likewise the majority think they're 'better than average' drivers.

> Same principle applies here - but I think also that people want the
> percentage to be higher as a result of having paid what they paid, so
> that's what they report.

That and the fact they're doing something, I mean even if it was free you  
wouldn't want to think you're wasting your time.

>>> Wish I'd seen that one.  I'd have paid for that. ;-)
>>
>> You've got 16 hours left if the link works outside the UK, but [sigh] it
>> needs WMP11 to play.
>
> Well even if it doesn't work outside the UK, tor solves that problem for
> me.

"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it" :-)

>>> Gotta love deniability.  They should send someone into one of the
>>> training sessions on the products - POS staff does need to be trained
>>> on the products, you know.
>>
>> Well they've done it for some shows.
>
> I'll bet that was fun. :-)

Indeed matching up the public 'we don't do that' to the backroom 'now this  
is what you do'.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Thu, 22 May 2008 14:48:49 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:

>>> Monster Raving Looney Party Manifesto Pledge #129: Manufacturers will
>>> be made to compensate for the "Old and Inferior" goods that they have
>>> now replaced with "New and Improved"
>>
>> I like it. ;-)
> 
> Well I don't know if they have a USA branch... yet.

Oh, I think they do....just under a different name.

>>> We do have some standards IIRC it has to be deemed as legible on a
>>> 'standard' screen and thus can't be too small, on exactly the same
>>> colour background or appear for just 1 sec.
>>
>> Ah, but "legible" by whom?
> 
> The Advertising Standards Authority have rules...

That's handy.

>> I used to print notes out in 2 point on 3x5 cards for my chemistry
>> exams using Lotus ... um, ... I forget the name of the program now -
>> got the boxes downstairs still.  Started with an F. Damn, that's going
>> to bug me now.
> 
> Freelance Graphics?

YES, that's the one.

>> Of course, my vision has become slightly less good since then. ;)
> 
> Odd, mine's got better :-P

B*stard. ;-)  I probably need to go and get my eyes checked out - it's 
been years since I had an exam; had to do a vision test for my driver's 
license renewal, had to close one eye to read the lines, missed the 
middle line completely as a result.  When I went back and read it again, 
I had to really concentrate to read it.  Just comes and goes for me.

>> Absolutely.  In learning evaluation (something I measure in my job
>> using an established methodology), one question asked frequently is
>> "how much of your job performance improved as a result of this
>> training?" - and answers are a percentage.  Behind-the-scenes, the
>> entered values are averaged and then adjusted downwards by something
>> like 15% because people tend to overstate, particularly right after
>> class.
> 
> Likewise the majority think they're 'better than average' drivers.

Yeah - I wonder how many evaluated themselves around 60%....

>> Same principle applies here - but I think also that people want the
>> percentage to be higher as a result of having paid what they paid, so
>> that's what they report.
> 
> That and the fact they're doing something, I mean even if it was free
> you wouldn't want to think you're wasting your time.

True, but I think if there's a value associated with it, people tend to 
overstate a bit more.

>> Well even if it doesn't work outside the UK, tor solves that problem
>> for me.
> 
> "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it" :-)

I like it. :-)  Did get the video, but it is DRM'ed, so watching it will 
still require WMP11.  Annoying, but now I've got time to try, unless the 
DRM is timebombed.

>> I'll bet that was fun. :-)
> 
> Indeed matching up the public 'we don't do that' to the backroom 'now
> this is what you do'.

Yeah.  Amazing that companies do that.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Thu, 22 May 2008 23:28:16 +0100, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Thu, 22 May 2008 14:48:49 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>>>> Monster Raving Looney Party Manifesto Pledge #129: Manufacturers will
>>>> be made to compensate for the "Old and Inferior" goods that they have
>>>> now replaced with "New and Improved"
>>>
>>> I like it. ;-)
>>
>> Well I don't know if they have a USA branch... yet.
>
> Oh, I think they do....just under a different name.

OOC to your knowledge has anyone tried to start a Republocrat party? "Two  
grating flavours in one party!"

>>>> We do have some standards IIRC it has to be deemed as legible on a
>>>> 'standard' screen and thus can't be too small, on exactly the same
>>>> colour background or appear for just 1 sec.
>>>
>>> Ah, but "legible" by whom?
>>
>> The Advertising Standards Authority have rules...
>
> That's handy.

They even enforce them too if someone complains and it's found upholdable;  
they've had adverts pulled for being misleading etc.

>>> Of course, my vision has become slightly less good since then. ;)
>>
>> Odd, mine's got better :-P
>
> B*stard. ;-)  I probably need to go and get my eyes checked out - it's
> been years since I had an exam;

I had a reminder a couple of months back that it had been a year since my  
last, I have noticed some mild deterioration. They're getting worse but  
it's slowed substantially since I was younger [touch wood] I expect  
they'll plateau and then start to drop again in 20-odd years time.

> had to do a vision test for my driver's
> license renewal, had to close one eye to read the lines, missed the
> middle line completely as a result.  When I went back and read it again,
> I had to really concentrate to read it.  Just comes and goes for me.

Heh when you get to the age you need to renew your driver's licence you  
just fill out a form saying you can see; various parties have been trying  
to change that for ages.

>>> Behind-the-scenes, the
>>> entered values are averaged and then adjusted downwards by something
>>> like 15% because people tend to overstate, particularly right after
>>> class.
>>
>> Likewise the majority think they're 'better than average' drivers.
>
> Yeah - I wonder how many evaluated themselves around 60%....

more like 75%.

>>> Same principle applies here - but I think also that people want the
>>> percentage to be higher as a result of having paid what they paid, so
>>> that's what they report.
>>
>> That and the fact they're doing something, I mean even if it was free
>> you wouldn't want to think you're wasting your time.
>
> True, but I think if there's a value associated with it, people tend to
> overstate a bit more.

Hmm I suppose, but time is money too.

>>> Well even if it doesn't work outside the UK, tor solves that problem
>>> for me.
>>
>> "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it" :-)
>
> I like it. :-)  Did get the video, but it is DRM'ed, so watching it will
> still require WMP11.  Annoying, but now I've got time to try, unless the
> DRM is timebombed.

I believe their 4OD service is time-restricted, so sadly it may well be  
the case.

>>> I'll bet that was fun. :-)
>>
>> Indeed matching up the public 'we don't do that' to the backroom 'now
>> this is what you do'.
>
> Yeah.  Amazing that companies do that.

What the customer doesn't know can't hurt them - right?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Fri, 23 May 2008 10:13:55 +0200, Phil Cook  
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> Heh when you get to the age you need to renew your driver's licence you  
> just fill out a form saying you can see; various parties have been  
> trying to change that for ages.

Sight is overrated...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/5313370.stm


-- 
FE

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On Fri, 23 May 2008 09:13:55 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:

>>> Well I don't know if they have a USA branch... yet.
>>
>> Oh, I think they do....just under a different name.
> 
> OOC to your knowledge has anyone tried to start a Republocrat party?
> "Two grating flavours in one party!"

LOL, no, I don't think so.  Well, maybe Joe Lieberman.

>>> The Advertising Standards Authority have rules...
>>
>> That's handy.
> 
> They even enforce them too if someone complains and it's found
> upholdable; they've had adverts pulled for being misleading etc.

Interesting...

>>>> Of course, my vision has become slightly less good since then. ;)
>>>
>>> Odd, mine's got better :-P
>>
>> B*stard. ;-)  I probably need to go and get my eyes checked out - it's
>> been years since I had an exam;
> 
> I had a reminder a couple of months back that it had been a year since
> my last, I have noticed some mild deterioration. They're getting worse
> but it's slowed substantially since I was younger [touch wood] I expect
> they'll plateau and then start to drop again in 20-odd years time.

I think my last vision exam was probably 20 years ago....Yeah, it's 
probably time.

>> had to do a vision test for my driver's license renewal, had to close
>> one eye to read the lines, missed the middle line completely as a
>> result.  When I went back and read it again, I had to really
>> concentrate to read it.  Just comes and goes for me.
> 
> Heh when you get to the age you need to renew your driver's licence you
> just fill out a form saying you can see; various parties have been
> trying to change that for ages.

Wow.  Maybe I need to get that college degree so I can emigrate. ;-)

>>> Likewise the majority think they're 'better than average' drivers.
>>
>> Yeah - I wonder how many evaluated themselves around 60%....
> 
> more like 75%.

Well, I was thinking if it's a 15% inflation (which is typical for 
learning effectiveness), the ones who are in the 60% range are "on the 
cusp" of actually being below average drivers.

>> True, but I think if there's a value associated with it, people tend to
>> overstate a bit more.
> 
> Hmm I suppose, but time is money too.

Yes, but it surprises me how many people don't think that way.  Hell, I 
even don't sometimes - went to a movie yesterday afternoon (the new 
Indiana Jones film) during the work day - I was given a ticket.  Ticket 
cost was $5.50.  My time, though, was worth, say, $35/hour, so in 
actuality the cost of my going to the movie was close to $110 (figure 3 
hours including travel time - and I nearly always stay until the end of 
the credits).  And I was just one person who went.

That said, it's nice that the company does things like that for us - 
having a little bit of R&R (especially given that often times the job 
runs late into the evenings and over weekends at times) is a nice bonus 
to have.

> I believe their 4OD service is time-restricted, so sadly it may well be
> the case.

Well, access to the video may be, not sure how the DRM works for it, 
though.  I guess we'll find out at some point.

>> Yeah.  Amazing that companies do that.
> 
> What the customer doesn't know can't hurt them - right?

Heh, I s'pose if you say it long enough, people might believe it. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Fri, 23 May 2008 19:13:43 +0100, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Fri, 23 May 2008 09:13:55 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>>>> The Advertising Standards Authority have rules...
>>>
>>> That's handy.
>>
>> They even enforce them too if someone complains and it's found
>> upholdable; they've had adverts pulled for being misleading etc.
>
> Interesting...

Also amusing that we in 'socialist' Europe have the self-regulating ASA  
and EASA whereas the USA has the Federal Trade Commision :-)

>>>>> Of course, my vision has become slightly less good since then. ;)
>>>>
>>>> Odd, mine's got better :-P
>>>
>>> B*stard. ;-)  I probably need to go and get my eyes checked out - it's
>>> been years since I had an exam;
>>
>> I had a reminder a couple of months back that it had been a year since
>> my last, I have noticed some mild deterioration. They're getting worse
>> but it's slowed substantially since I was younger [touch wood] I expect
>> they'll plateau and then start to drop again in 20-odd years time.
>
> I think my last vision exam was probably 20 years ago....Yeah, it's
> probably time.

Might be an idea.

>>> had to do a vision test for my driver's license renewal, had to close
>>> one eye to read the lines, missed the middle line completely as a
>>> result.  When I went back and read it again, I had to really
>>> concentrate to read it.  Just comes and goes for me.
>>
>> Heh when you get to the age you need to renew your driver's licence you
>> just fill out a form saying you can see; various parties have been
>> trying to change that for ages.
>
> Wow.  Maybe I need to get that college degree so I can emigrate. ;-)

Well you speak, read and write English that's worth a few points on the  
immigration checklist - what do you know about plumbing ;-)

>>>> Likewise the majority think they're 'better than average' drivers.
>>>
>>> Yeah - I wonder how many evaluated themselves around 60%....
>>
>> more like 75%.
>
> Well, I was thinking if it's a 15% inflation (which is typical for
> learning effectiveness), the ones who are in the 60% range are "on the
> cusp" of actually being below average drivers.

Yeah I was just messin' wit' you.

>>> True, but I think if there's a value associated with it, people tend to
>>> overstate a bit more.
>>
>> Hmm I suppose, but time is money too.
>
> Yes, but it surprises me how many people don't think that way.  Hell, I
> even don't sometimes - went to a movie yesterday afternoon (the new
> Indiana Jones film)

Any good?

> during the work day - I was given a ticket.  Ticket
> cost was $5.50.  My time, though, was worth, say, $35/hour, so in
> actuality the cost of my going to the movie was close to $110 (figure 3
> hours including travel time - and I nearly always stay until the end of
> the credits).  And I was just one person who went.
>
> That said, it's nice that the company does things like that for us -
> having a little bit of R&R (especially given that often times the job
> runs late into the evenings and over weekends at times) is a nice bonus
> to have.

But how much is employee goodwill worth?

>>> Yeah.  Amazing that companies do that.
>>
>> What the customer doesn't know can't hurt them - right?
>
> Heh, I s'pose if you say it long enough, people might believe it. ;-)

Carefully skirting Godwin's Law there :-P

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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And lo on Fri, 23 May 2008 17:45:37 +0100, Fredrik Eriksson  
<fe79}--at--{yahoo}--dot--{com> did spake, saying:

> On Fri, 23 May 2008 10:13:55 +0200, Phil Cook  
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>> Heh when you get to the age you need to renew your driver's licence you  
>> just fill out a form saying you can see; various parties have been  
>> trying to change that for ages.
>
> Sight is overrated...
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/5313370.stm

Heh I think it may well have been I that originally posted this here, I'm  
still surprised that he got picked up at all given the low number of  
police cars I see around here.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:29:00 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:

> Also amusing that we in 'socialist' Europe have the self-regulating ASA
> and EASA whereas the USA has the Federal Trade Commision :-)

Yeah, we're big on irony here. ;-)

>> I think my last vision exam was probably 20 years ago....Yeah, it's
>> probably time.
> 
> Might be an idea.

Might be at that. :-)

>> Wow.  Maybe I need to get that college degree so I can emigrate. ;-)
> 
> Well you speak, read and write English that's worth a few points on the
> immigration checklist - what do you know about plumbing ;-)

I know about network plumbing. ;-)  But seriously, didn't they do away 
with the points system altogether last year?

>> Well, I was thinking if it's a 15% inflation (which is typical for
>> learning effectiveness), the ones who are in the 60% range are "on the
>> cusp" of actually being below average drivers.
> 
> Yeah I was just messin' wit' you.

Oh, I recognise that. ;-)

>> Yes, but it surprises me how many people don't think that way.  Hell, I
>> even don't sometimes - went to a movie yesterday afternoon (the new
>> Indiana Jones film)
> 
> Any good?

I enjoyed it (see other thread that Darren started - no spoilers in there 
as of this writing).  But someone else paid for it as well - but I 
concluded that I would have paid to see it anyways.

>> during the work day - I was given a ticket.  Ticket cost was $5.50.  My
>> time, though, was worth, say, $35/hour, so in actuality the cost of my
>> going to the movie was close to $110 (figure 3 hours including travel
>> time - and I nearly always stay until the end of the credits).  And I
>> was just one person who went.
>>
>> That said, it's nice that the company does things like that for us -
>> having a little bit of R&R (especially given that often times the job
>> runs late into the evenings and over weekends at times) is a nice bonus
>> to have.
> 
> But how much is employee goodwill worth?

At this company, quite a bit.  They started doing that sort of thing a 
few years ago with movies that were going to be so popular on opening day 
that they were worried about not having anyone in the office.  So by 
buying out a couple of different times at a local cinema, they avoid that 
and can stagger the support folks (for example) to make sure there's 
coverage.

>>>> Yeah.  Amazing that companies do that.
>>>
>>> What the customer doesn't know can't hurt them - right?
>>
>> Heh, I s'pose if you say it long enough, people might believe it. ;-)
> 
> Carefully skirting Godwin's Law there :-P

LOL!

Jim

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Tue, 27 May 2008 16:38:58 +0100, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:29:00 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> Also amusing that we in 'socialist' Europe have the self-regulating ASA
>> and EASA whereas the USA has the Federal Trade Commision :-)
>
> Yeah, we're big on irony here. ;-)

Yes of course; famous for it.

>>> Wow.  Maybe I need to get that college degree so I can emigrate. ;-)
>>
>> Well you speak, read and write English that's worth a few points on the
>> immigration checklist - what do you know about plumbing ;-)
>
> I know about network plumbing. ;-)  But seriously, didn't they do away
> with the points system altogether last year?

Hmm it was in the news recently (read some months back) about a revamp (or  
that it needed one), awarding points for language skills etc. so I'm  
guessing it's still in force in some way.

>>> Yes, but it surprises me how many people don't think that way.  Hell, I
>>> even don't sometimes - went to a movie yesterday afternoon (the new
>>> Indiana Jones film)
>>
>> Any good?
>
> I enjoyed it (see other thread that Darren started - no spoilers in there
> as of this writing).

Yeah I caught it about 30 seconds after posting, seemed positive enough.

> But someone else paid for it as well - but I
> concluded that I would have paid to see it anyways.

And that's the type of statement that you would want to hear from a pro.  
reviewer 'I got in for free, but I'd have paid to see it anyway' :-)

>> But how much is employee goodwill worth?
>
> At this company, quite a bit.  They started doing that sort of thing a
> few years ago with movies that were going to be so popular on opening day
> that they were worried about not having anyone in the office.  So by
> buying out a couple of different times at a local cinema, they avoid that
> and can stagger the support folks (for example) to make sure there's
> coverage.

So you're more likely to stay working with them, less stressed etc. which  
adds up to X work hours at X pay saved from recruitment and going postal.  
Gotta look at the bottom line, we're a company dammit.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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