On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:31:56 -0500, Tim Cook <z99### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

>Some monks were 

And that reminds me about the one about monks, sexual favours, a bee and a
spoonful of honey :)

Regards
	Stephen

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Stephen wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:36:40 -0500, Sabrina Kilian <"ykgp at vtSPAM.edu"> wrote:
> 
>> Hmm, I thought the observation was that it is too late. Or the
>> observation of the facts that lead to you having that belief.
>>
> 
> No it is only an opinion (I have a black belt in nitpicking :)
> 

Mine is in defending what I said. We could go around in circles for days. =)
> 
>>> Some people say that modern society is changing too fast for us to adapt to it
>>> safely. I think that this has a kernel of truth. The demise of the nuclear
>>> family plays a part.
>>>
>> Is that the demise of the family with regard to single parents and
>> non-traditional families, or the other movement to return to large
>> extended families?
>>
>  nuclear family = traditional extended families
> 

Where I grew up, those are still the norm. The rumor of their demise has
been greatly exaggerated.

>> 100$ an hour seems to be the going rate here. 
> 
> That is almost as much as I make :)
> And I don't mess peoples minds :)
> 
>> Insurance companies can
>> dictate what they will pay, but make doctors charge the same thing to
>> everyone and therefor dictate what the uninsured pay too. Screwed up
>> system. 100$ a month for a one hour session, or the latest 45$ a month
>> pill, or an older pill at 8$ a month?
>>
> 
> And our NHS is going private. Thanks for the warning
> 

While we struggle to make ours open to everyone. What should I be
watching out for?

>> No argument from me on the first part. It would be a lot cheaper for
>> society. The second one, though . . .
>>
>> I don't think counseling is about getting a person 'over' an event or an
>> issue. When you have a tough math problem, that you have no idea how to
>> solve, you don't 'get over it.' You study, learn what the notation
>> means, figure out how the problem is expressed, and then work through it
>> step by step. What do you do with a problem in life that you have no
>> frame of reference for how to solve?
> 
> I wonder if we are talking about the same thing? Maybe my understanding of
> counsellors is different from yours. (Two countries separated by a common
> language and all that.) I am talking about non medical people i.e. not
> psychiatrists. I don't think that you can really compare mental health problems
> with maths problems. But then I see the world as a simple place, things happen
> and a lot of them are bad. Life goes on or else it doesn't. But then I've never
> been clinically depressed only very dumped so maybe I'm lucky or just don't have
> enough imagination.
> 

That could be the issue. Here, there is very little difference between
psychiatrist and psychologists, the primary one being that the former is
a medical doctor and can prescribe and dispense drugs. Psychologists
vary from Ph.D.s in psychology to licensed social workers. Usually
specialized to some issue: marriage counselors, depression, social
problems. All of those are what I usually refer to as counselors. Well,
that is if the psychiatrists actually do anything other then just say
hello and hand out a prescription.

My point in the math comparison was the frame of reference. Some people
don't know how to solve the problems they find in daily life, either
because they just never learned or because of medical problems. Medicine
masks that, but doesn't teach them anything, so the person may continue
to run into the same problem again and again. I'm not saying the
medicine is useless, but it's not always the only thing needed. Same
with the math problem, you could tell a person the answer but it doesn't
help the next time they have a similar problem.

As for depression, be glad you haven't. I've described it like this:
When you are depressed, you know what you are upset about. When you are
clinically depressed, one thing sets you off and you get upset, then you
get depressed and can't handle other things in your daily life, and that
just upsets you more because you know you should be able to handle
things, and so on. It doesn't take long till you aren't even concerned
with what ever it was that first upset you, you just stay in this
spiral. It's something that's very hard to imagine, I'm certain.

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On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:17:14 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:59:29 -0000, "Phil Cook"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I've an umbrella... which sounds kind of dumb until I demonstrate its
>>four-foot reach and 3-inch blunted spike on the end :-)
> 
> My name is Steed, John Steed :)

Best line of the day. :-)

Jim

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On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:14:19 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> She only didit cause
> her Da Da didit.

She only .. cause her --..?

Or

She only .. cause her - - ..?

Jim

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On 19 Feb 2008 16:44:41 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:


>>>I've an umbrella... which sounds kind of dumb until I demonstrate its
>>>four-foot reach and 3-inch blunted spike on the end :-)
>> 
>> My name is Steed, John Steed :)
>
>Best line of the day. :-)
>

Thankee kind sir :)

Regards
	Stephen

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On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:56:38 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 19 Feb 2008 16:44:41 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>I've an umbrella... which sounds kind of dumb until I demonstrate its
>>>>four-foot reach and 3-inch blunted spike on the end :-)
>>> 
>>> My name is Steed, John Steed :)
>>
>>Best line of the day. :-)
>>
>>
> Thankee kind sir :)

How sad is it that I know what that references? :-)

Jim

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On 19 Feb 2008 16:46:04 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:14:19 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>
>> She only didit cause
>> her Da Da didit.
>
>She only .. cause her --..?
>
>Or
>
>She only .. cause her - - ..?
>
You certainly know how to deconstruct a joke, old bean!
Z :)


Regards
	Stephen

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On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:02:51 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 19 Feb 2008 16:46:04 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:14:19 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> She only didit cause
>>> her Da Da didit.
>>
>>She only .. cause her --..?
>>
>>Or
>>
>>She only .. cause her - - ..?
>>
> You certainly know how to deconstruct a joke, old bean! Z :)

If I'd been *really* trying, I'd have said "I" instead of "..",  "Z" for 
"--..", and "T" for "-".  Or if it was --, "M".

She only I cause her Z?

She only I cause her MI?

She only I cause her TTI?

I don't know that that makes any more sense. ;-)

Jim

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On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:41:24 -0500, Sabrina Kilian <"ykgp at vtSPAM.edu"> wrote:


>> No it is only an opinion (I have a black belt in nitpicking :)
>> 
>
>Mine is in defending what I said. We could go around in circles for days. =)
 
As the earth goes round the sun:)


>>  nuclear family = traditional extended families
>> 
>
>Where I grew up, those are still the norm. The rumor of their demise has
>been greatly exaggerated.
>

Ah! The rural life. No theatre but it has its advantages, so I've been told :)


>> And our NHS is going private. Thanks for the warning
>> 
>
>While we struggle to make ours open to everyone. What should I be
>watching out for?
>
I could say Obama but that would be flippant :)

BTW did you know that if he became president Jamaicans would say that you were
still waiting for a black president?



>That could be the issue. Here, there is very little difference between
>psychiatrist and psychologists, the primary one being that the former is
>a medical doctor and can prescribe and dispense drugs. 

The same here.

>Psychologists
>vary from Ph.D.s in psychology to licensed social workers. Usually
>specialized to some issue: marriage counselors, depression, social
>problems. All of those are what I usually refer to as counselors. Well,
>that is if the psychiatrists actually do anything other then just say
>hello and hand out a prescription.

@ $100/hr? A nice job if you can get it :)

>My point in the math comparison was the frame of reference. Some people
>don't know how to solve the problems they find in daily life, either
>because they just never learned or because of medical problems. Medicine
>masks that, but doesn't teach them anything, so the person may continue
>to run into the same problem again and again. I'm not saying the
>medicine is useless, but it's not always the only thing needed. Same
>with the math problem, you could tell a person the answer but it doesn't
>help the next time they have a similar problem.
>
Your answer makes sense but I have a nagging feeling it is not a good analogy. I
may come back to it later.

>As for depression, be glad you haven't. 

I am, believe me. (There but for the grace of God go I) [Not that I am
religious]

>I've described it like this:
[snip]

>It's something that's very hard to imagine, I'm certain.

Not really, you describe it well. I don't have personal experience of clinical
depression but I have seen it close up second hand. I've been depressed by my
situation in life, sometimes to the point of being paralysed but for me a good
kick has got me going again. I know that if I had been clinically depressed that
would not have worked. Funnily enough the phrase "pull yourself together" has
never crossed my lips. I am just about perfect :) ROTFL

Regards
	Stephen

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On 19 Feb 2008 17:00:12 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>>>> My name is Steed, John Steed :)
>>>
>>>Best line of the day. :-)
>>>
>>>
>> Thankee kind sir :)
>
>How sad is it that I know what that references? :-)

Only as sad as any connoisseur :)

Regards
	Stephen

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