And lo on Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:15:43 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

>>>> Your freezer contains a gas, sure you can't observe it directly
>>>
>>> Or rather, you can - but please don't! :-S
>>  Well quite :-) Thinking about it if you've got a computer 'air-duster'  
>> cleaner then that contains a compressed-to-a-liquid gas, normally one  
>> of the flurocarbons.
>
> Oh, is *that* way it says not to use the can upside down, despite this  
> being the most useful configuration? :-)

Yeah, that's why you're spraying liquid around instead of gas.

> [Seriously. Why don't they just arrange the innards of the can the other  
> way round?]

What so the liquid settles at the top of the can, I'd love that bit of  
technology. I know what you mean and it's called price - hollow can,  
liquid, nozzle. Would you prefer faffing about with two-skin cans or just  
print a warning on the side and blame the user when they don't read it?


-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Bill Pragnell wrote:
> How about the CO2 bubbles you see when you take the cap off a fizzy 
> drink bottle?

Ooh, been to a fairground recently? Got any helium balloons left 
over...? Again, not directly observable but the effects are...

There's a good song about helium here:

http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/blimp/


:)

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And lo on Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:14:25 -0000, Bill Pragnell  
<bil### [at] hotmailcom> did spake, saying:

> gregjohn wrote:
>> Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>>> Phil Cook wrote:
>>>> Water Vapour
>>> <pedant>
>>> Water vapour is suspended liquid droplets. Steam is the gas phase.
>>> </pedant>
>>  Water vapour is the gas phase.  Steam is the gas phase.
>
> So it is, my mistake. I always thought 'vapour' referred to suspended  
> condensation. Wikipedia does mention the frequent misuse of the term.

Ditto, so water vapour equals steam; so what simple term can we use for  
those fluffy white things? I don't think we can go with clouds, or fluffy  
white thing.

>> And to everyone who said CO2 or Ar, that's not something you can  
>> observe in your
>> house.  It's about observation of gaseous substances, not merely naming  
>> off
>> elements a textbook will tell you might be present.
>
> Thought that might be the case! CO is particarly poorly judged then,  
> being colourless and odourless.

Um so how did you observe air or water vapour, which are both also  
colourless and odourless?

> How about the CO2 bubbles you see when you take the cap off a fizzy  
> drink bottle?

Which brings us back to non-direct observation, which in turn rules back  
in car exhausts, gas ovens, air-dusters, and freezers.

Sorry, but you still haven't given us a definition of observation.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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>> Oh, is *that* way it says not to use the can upside down, despite this 
>> being the most useful configuration? :-)
> 
> Yeah, that's why you're spraying liquid around instead of gas.

Whatever that liquid is, it evapourates really fast... (Leaves 
interesting stains too.)

>> [Seriously. Why don't they just arrange the innards of the can the 
>> other way round?]
> 
> What so the liquid settles at the top of the can, I'd love that bit of 
> technology. I know what you mean and it's called price - hollow can, 
> liquid, nozzle. Would you prefer faffing about with two-skin cans or 
> just print a warning on the side and blame the user when they don't read 
> it?

Oh well...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:18:00 +0200, "Gail Shaw" <initialsurname@sentech sa dot
com> wrote:

>
>All the high-end server rooms I've seen or been in have an automated argon
>fire extinguishing system.

In my day they were halon. Opps there goes the ozone layer.

Regards
	Stephen

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On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:26:16 -0000, "Phil Cook"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>
>I think the fact it doesn't 'do anything' from our limited perception on  
>matters makes it seem rarer, a bit like the fact that nitrogen forms a  
>greater percentage of air then oxygen sometimes comes as a shock to people.

Isn't there a rare gas that seeps into the basements of houses in Cornwell and
similar areas that is toxic?

Regards
	Stephen

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>> I think the fact it doesn't 'do anything' from our limited perception on  
>> matters makes it seem rarer, a bit like the fact that nitrogen forms a  
>> greater percentage of air then oxygen sometimes comes as a shock to people.
> 
> Isn't there a rare gas that seeps into the basements of houses in Cornwell and
> similar areas that is toxic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radon

Radioactive, not toxic. (It's a noble gas, after all...)

PS. Apparently there *are* compounds of Argon and gold, would you believe...

-- 
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http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Phil Cook <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon, Carbon Dioxide, Neon, Helium, Water Vapour

  You forgot hydrogen and methane.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Phil Cook <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>> Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon, Carbon Dioxide, Neon, Helium, Water Vapour
> 
>   You forgot hydrogen and methane.

I thought H2 is quite rare in air?

[Mind you, I thought Ar was rare too...]

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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> And to everyone who said CO2 or Ar, that's not something you can observe in your
> house.  It's about observation of gaseous substances, not merely naming off
> elements a textbook will tell you might be present.

CO2 is correct, isn't it. Thinking about water with gas (mainly CO2), baking
process using baking powder (gas CO2), etc.
if your water is a bit limy (or better a bit more) put in acid (vinegar, lemon,
etc.) and there should escape some gas (CO2)...
if you could, brew some beer (CO2)... :)
take a burning candle catch the gas of it with a cup or sth. (take care CO2 is
heavier than air) and then put a burning matchstick inside the collected gas
(it should go out) -> CO2 (fire needs oxygen)

and so on :D

BTW, you were talking about "smelling" fish (organic amines), put lemon on it ->
it shouldn't smell anymore (the acid is helping the amines to become a salt,
they won't raise to your noise anymore) :)

Only to tell a few examples.

Regards,
bluetree

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